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View Full Version : Need a .22 rifle for a steel challenge match


melissa5
02-29-2012, 06:19 PM
There's a club about 30 minutes from me that has .22 steel challenge matches and I will need a .22 rifle. I don't have one, but was thinking about getting an S&W M&P15-22 since I like the AR platform. Does anyone have one and what are your thoughts about it? Also, does anyone compete in steel challenge matches? For the handgun part, I was told that I could use my Advantage Arms .22 conversion kit for my Glock 17.

Edited to add that these aren't sanctioned matches and are just for fun.

cesande
02-29-2012, 06:32 PM
LOVE my 15-22... it is a blast and same manual of arms as the AR of course.

Research the loading of the mags and if you get that right it will be a problem free fun plinker.

Never competed but have a red dot from primary arms on it and it really is a hoot and as accurate as I am... which may not say much ! LoL

Scoundrel
02-29-2012, 06:45 PM
My 15/22 is my absolute favorite gun! The early models had some feeding issues, and you'll still read about that if you do a Google search, but those issues have long since been solved. Buy a new one and you'll be fine.

I saw the threads about making sure the rounds are staggered, and I did that at first, but then starting ignoring it, and never had a problem. I just make sure I only drop the follower down (using the buttons) far enough to load one round at a time, and they stack properly. If you drag the follower down a few inches and start dropping rounds in there a few at a time, they won't stack right and you'll have feed issues. It's really not a big issue at all.

Check out the Black Dog Machine LLC 50-round drum if you want to just shoot and shoot and shoot! (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG4141-1.html) Woohoo! I had a little trouble with waxed rounds through mine. Took apart the feed necks and dremeled them out a bit and they've been awesome since. They worked fine with the bulk Federal and Winchester (not waxed) before the dremel work. Now they work fine with the CCI 40-grain Sub-Sonic as well.

I have more than 3000 rounds through mine including the stock magazines and the 50-round drums. The majority of feeding issues have been related to the 50-round drum, which I have since resolved. I think I had three failures to feed out of 2000 rounds through the stock magazines. All three were the Winchester bulk, which has a big flat nose due to the size of the hollow point.

Oh, and you'll want an awesome carry case for it as well: http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Storage-Adjustable-Shoulder-Strap/dp/B001BR2Z8G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330562464&sr=8-3
See my range report (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8437) for a pic of my 15/22 stowed in the UTG case.

If you scroll down far enough there is a pic of the 50-round drum attached.

Can't go wrong with the 15/22. Fantastic gun!

rholmes69
02-29-2012, 06:57 PM
Do you already have an AR? If so, buy a .22 AR upper or conversion. IF not, but an AR lower desiged to shoot .223/5.56 and then buy a .22 upper for it.

You can find complete AR uppers for .22 for about $350-400. A CMMG or similar conversion is about $150 for a standard .223/5.56 upper. Your lower can be built to suit, but a complete lower can be had built for not much over $200 if you search, $250 with Magpul furniture...

Scoundrel
02-29-2012, 07:05 PM
No offense, rholmes69, but why spend that much money and turn an AR-15 into a .22, when you can get a complete 15/22 for $400, which is lighter, and optimized for its purpose? Plus, then you have two guns.

[edit: $400 is optimistic - with tax/ffl you're probably closer to $500 - still a good value]

melissa5
02-29-2012, 07:08 PM
Thanks guys! The 15-22 sounds like a good choice then.

Cesande, I also have a Primary Arms red dot on my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that I will try on the 15-22.

That's a great range report, Scoundrel.

I've got a Daniel Defense AR-15 and have used a conversion kit in it before. It was OK, but I think I would like a .22 upper or a whole .22 rifle.

Scoundrel
02-29-2012, 07:11 PM
Thanks guys! The 15-22 sounds like a good choice then.

Cesande, I also have a Primary Arms red dot on my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that I will try on the 15-22.

That's a great range report, Scoundrel.

You're most welcome, and thank you for reading my range report! I probably rambled on a bit much there, but I was excited.

When you get yours, please post your results, and if you remember, PM me so I don't miss it!

I try not to push my preferences on other people excessively, but I have a LOT of positive energy about the 15/22. I hope you like yours as much as I like mine.

melissa5
02-29-2012, 07:16 PM
[edit: $400 is optimistic - with tax/ffl you're probably closer to $500 - still a good value]

My range is selling me one for $359 out the door. :D

Scoundrel
02-29-2012, 07:21 PM
My range is selling me one for $359 out the door. :D

:eek: grumble grumble

:hippie:

CJB
02-29-2012, 07:59 PM
I dunno the match, but... I'm stuck on the 10/22... got three of 'em. Got an AR-conversion (Colt), it shoots ok, dependable... but not accurate like the 10/22. The key with the conversion is the .223 vs .221 bore I suppose.

cesande
02-29-2012, 11:11 PM
Thanks guys! The 15-22 sounds like a good choice then.

Cesande, I also have a Primary Arms red dot on my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 that I will try on the 15-22.

That's a great range report, Scoundrel.

I've got a Daniel Defense AR-15 and have used a conversion kit in it before. It was OK, but I think I would like a .22 upper or a whole .22 rifle.

We have similar taste...

I too have the same red dot on the same Sub 2000 :-)

melissa5
03-01-2012, 08:17 AM
I dunno the match, but... I'm stuck on the 10/22... got three of 'em. Got an AR-conversion (Colt), it shoots ok, dependable... but not accurate like the 10/22. The key with the conversion is the .223 vs .221 bore I suppose.

My conversion worked fine, but I was frustrated with having to change my zeroing every time I switched from .22 to .223/5.56.

I thought about a 10/22, but I just like the AR platform.

dkmatthews
03-01-2012, 09:00 AM
Congrats on such a good deal on the M&P15-22!

MW surveyor
03-01-2012, 10:07 AM
You may want to see what others that are doing well in the standings are using before making any real decision yet. JMTC YMMV

melissa5
03-01-2012, 05:46 PM
You may want to see what others that are doing well in the standings are using before making any real decision yet. JMTC YMMV

Ooops! I bought it after lunch today. I as able to get a dime sized group with it at 25 yards (from a rest) and about a 4-5 inch group standing offhand, so maybe it'll be good enough to do a decent job. It was really fun to shoot and will give me good practice for my AR-15. I fed it some of the cheap Federals in the value pack and had 1 failure to feed. I am going to order another 25 round magazine and a couple of 10 round mags so that I can go prone. In a couple of weeks, I'll be attending an Appleseed event and will need to shoot prone. The event teaches how to shoot prone, standing, and seated and will include some shooting at 350 yards.

MW surveyor
03-01-2012, 06:33 PM
Let it never be said that you let the grass grow under your feet! Dime size groups! I'm lucky to get paper dollar size groups :). Just kidding but I can only get quarter size groups at 25 yards with a 4 power scope anymore.

I'd love to do an Appleseed event but the majority of the time they have them here is when I'm away from home. To shoot at a target 350 yards away with a 22 lr I'd need about a 16 power scope!

Scoundrel
03-01-2012, 06:38 PM
Me, I get pencil sized groups. One shot, one group. :D

melissa5
03-01-2012, 06:44 PM
Let it never be said that you let the grass grow under your feet! Dime size groups! I'm lucky to get paper dollar size groups :). Just kidding but I can only get quarter size groups at 25 yards with a 4 power scope anymore.

I'd love to do an Appleseed event but the majority of the time they have them here is when I'm away from home. To shoot at a target 350 yards away with a 22 lr I'd need about a 16 power scope!

The match is Saturday, so I didn't have time to waste. LOL

I think I mispoke about the targets at the Appleseed. :rolleyes: Here's what the web site says. "This is a target posted at 25 yards, with silhouettes scaled to resemble a man sized target at 100 yards for standing, 200 yards for rapid fire sitting/kneeling, 300 yards for rapid fire prone and 400 yards for slow fire prone. Your goal is to reach a score of 210 out of a possible 250."

TheTman
03-01-2012, 07:56 PM
I'm with CJB, hard to go wrong with a 10/22. Plus it has so many aftermarket accessories you can outfit it almost anyway you like. I bought a standard tapered barrel one and all I did to it was add a scope, and buy two 30 round mags, and one 50 round one. Quarter size groups are pretty common with it at around 25 yards, I usually have about a dime size group with one ragged hole, with a flyer or two stretching it out to quarter size or bigger. I've also had Marlins that were excellent shooters for an inexpensive rifle. I like the 10/22 magazines a lot better than the tube magazines though.

CJB
03-01-2012, 08:15 PM
I'm hoping to get quarter size at 50 yards.... jeeze my Kimber .22 does less than .250 at 50 yards...!!~

Thinkin' more on that... I can see Melissa's "zero problem". I used a scope on the AR most of the time, except when I did the .22 inside. So that never occurred to me.

I still say the 10/22 can outshoot a conversion or almost anything else semi-auto and .22LR

rholmes69
03-01-2012, 10:27 PM
No offense, rholmes69, but why spend that much money and turn an AR-15 into a .22, when you can get a complete 15/22 for $400, which is lighter, and optimized for its purpose? Plus, then you have two guns.

[edit: $400 is optimistic - with tax/ffl you're probably closer to $500 - still a good value]


I didn't think there was that much weight difference..

Had to look real quick. A mp 15/22 weighs 5.5 lbs, a Chiappa dedicated .22 upper is 3.5 lbs., an avg complete lower with collapsible stock is about 2.25 lbs, so weight would be about even.

For the sake of saving money or eventually expanding, I suggested building one. With a complete lower and a complete upper in .22, you could piece it together for about $550-$600. Then when the itch to shoot something supersonic hits, you can buy a 5.56 upper for the cost of another cheap .22 ($350ish). Cliffnotes for my sake, complete upper, complete upper in .22 and complete lower would be $900; shave $150 off roughly if you went with a CMMG conversion for a 5.56 upper. Buy the same S&W MP 15/22 for an avg price of 400-500 and a similar dedicated AR 15 variant, you are gonna pay at least $700 for it alone. So a total of $1100 wrapped up in 2 guns vs $900, that was my thinking.

Whew, that took me a while!:o

Scoundrel
03-01-2012, 10:46 PM
I didn't think there was that much weight difference..

Had to look real quick. A mp 15/22 weighs 5.5 lbs, a Chiappa dedicated .22 upper is 3.5 lbs., an avg complete lower with collapsible stock is about 2.25 lbs, so weight would be about even.

For the sake of saving money or eventually expanding, I suggested building one. With a complete lower and a complete upper in .22, you could piece it together for about $550-$600. Then when the itch to shoot something supersonic hits, you can buy a 5.56 upper for the cost of another cheap .22 ($350ish). Cliffnotes for my sake, complete upper, complete upper in .22 and complete lower would be $900; shave $150 off roughly if you went with a CMMG conversion for a 5.56 upper. Buy the same S&W MP 15/22 for an avg price of 400-500 and a similar dedicated AR 15 variant, you are gonna pay at least $700 for it alone. So a total of $1100 wrapped up in 2 guns vs $900, that was my thinking.

Whew, that took me a while!:o

This is kind of a moot point because she has made her purchase, but for the sake of discussion in case anyone comes along later with a similar interest...

When I said the thing about the weight, I was only thinking of how much heavier my AR-15 feels than my 15/22. I was not being scientific or even qualifying my statement. I wasn't thinking about the fact that a .22 upper on a standard AR lower would be lighter than an AR, because of the barrel weight.

Anyway, I just did some weight measurements with my modest postal scale (old school spring scale, not digital):

M&P 15 Lower: 2.1 lbs
M&P 15/22 Lower: 1.5 lbs

M&P 15 Upper: 4.1 lbs
M&P 15/22 Upper: 3.5 lbs (minus 0.6 if you remove the iron sights)

M&P 15 Total: 6.2 lbs
M&P 15/22 Total: 5 lbs

M&P 15 Model # 811036 (Sport model, no forward assist or dust cover)
M&P 15/22 Model # 811033 (has quad rails and A1-style compensator)
I am not sure what model Melissa purchased, weight might be different.

So it seems that the weight difference might not be much.

By your pricing, ($900 for 1.5 guns or $1100 for two guns), I'll take two complete guns in a heartbeat (in fact, that's what I did). :53:

But someone else may feel differently about it and go the other way.

melissa5
03-02-2012, 07:09 AM
I've got model 811033 with quad rails and A1 style compensator. The S&W web site says it's 5.5 lbs. Compared to my Daniel Defense (a little over 7 lbs), it feels very light. BTW, it turned out to be a used gun, but that's $100 off the price of new guns, so I still thought it was a good deal.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/811033_01_md.jpg

QuercusMax
03-02-2012, 08:04 AM
This discussion is an example of one of the things I really HATE about KahrTalk.

Just when things on my wish list had gotten settled down, sure enough someone brings up yet another really interesting item that suddenly has a good chance of becoming another "must have" item for me. I'm trying to live a balanced life, which includes being able to spend at least some of my money and time on things other than guns, but with limited success recently.

I don't get out much, at least to gun stores and other places where I can become familiar with every possible firearm that exists, so it seems that about once a month yet another interesting item pops up that I had not been considering previously.

In this case, I had only just heard of the M&P 15-22 a few weeks ago when I happened to peruse a S&W catalogue, and now it's moving up fast on my wish list. I'll have to find a real one to look at/try out first - that will help slow things down.

The memory of what happened after I saw my first FN Five-seveN is still fresh in my mind....

dkmatthews
03-02-2012, 08:08 AM
This discussion is an example of one of the things I really HATE about KahrTalk.

Just when things on my wish list had gotten settled down, sure enough someone brings up yet another really interesting item that suddenly has a good chance of becoming another "must have" item for me. I'm trying to live a balanced life, which includes being able to spend at least some of my money and time on things other than guns, but with limited success recently. <snip>....

That's why it's so important to have shootin' buddies! You don't have to own ALL the cool guns! When you go out to the range, you can all swap 'em around and the guns won't get jealous! :D

MW surveyor
03-02-2012, 09:21 AM
I've got model 811033 with quad rails and A1 style compensator. The S&W web site says it's 5.5 lbs. Compared to my Daniel Defense (a little over 7 lbs), it feels very light. BTW, it turned out to be a used gun, but that's $100 off the price of new guns, so I still thought it was a good deal.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/811033_01_md.jpg

I know a couple of good ways to get the weight up to the "real gun" standards.

You need to have in no particular order: set of reflex sights, heavy candle power flashlight, laser sight, two mags taped together, bayonet?, some kind of taser, etc. :D

dkmathews - OH YES YOU DO!

melissa5
03-02-2012, 09:42 AM
I know a couple of good ways to get the weight up to the "real gun" standards.

You need to have in no particular order: set of reflex sights, heavy candle power flashlight, laser sight, two mags taped together, bayonet?, some kind of taser, etc. :D



I like it kind of light weight, but I was thinking buying Magpul rail covers, pistol grip, stock, and fore grip. I've already got a Primary Arms red dot that I can slap on it, but I really need practice with the iron sights.

Scoundrel
03-02-2012, 11:21 AM
The S&W web site says it's 5.5 lbs
I fixed a math error in my post and (when fixed) my measurements came out to 5.0 lbs - but I weighed it without the magazine. That, plus my crappy old postal scale, and I call it "close enough".

I like it kind of light weight, but I was thinking buying Magpul rail covers, pistol grip, stock, and fore grip. I've already got a Primary Arms red dot that I can slap on it, but I really need practice with the iron sights.

I have a folding foregrip and folding bipod on mine. The foregrip is a "must have" for me. My wrist starts to hurt pretty quickly if rotated all the way around to hold onto the stock in front. It's pretty light because it's almost 100% plastic, which is fine for a .22LR gun.

melissa5
03-02-2012, 06:58 PM
This is how she's going to the match tomorrow. I've ordered a Magpul MIAD grip, Magpul XT rail covers, a Magpul MOE stock, and 2 10-round mags for shooting prone.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2687/dscn2480a.jpg

Scoundrel
03-02-2012, 07:03 PM
Sweet. Simple and elegant. Maybe a little less simple and elegant once the whiz-bangs arrive, but I'm sure it will be nice.

cesande
03-02-2012, 07:22 PM
I have the angled foregrip on mine and really like it.
On the Sub2k as well...
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG414/46

I got to get my camera out one of these days

melissa5
03-02-2012, 07:34 PM
I have the angled foregrip on mine and really like it.
On the Sub2k as well...
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG414/46

I got to get my camera out one of these days

Yeah, I've got the AFG on my Sub2k. I might switch it to the 15-22 though. Depends on how I like the current configuration tomorrow.

cesande
03-02-2012, 08:15 PM
Best to you tomorrow!

ivans
03-03-2012, 07:25 AM
I'll simply say this:
Everyone who shoots my M&P 15-22 just smiles when they are done shooting the first magazine :)

melissa5
03-03-2012, 08:09 AM
Best to you tomorrow!

Thank you! Unfortunately, it's raining this morning, so I didn't go. I will try again next month. This will give me time to get more mags and practice time with the gun.

rholmes69
03-03-2012, 08:50 PM
By your pricing, ($900 for 1.5 guns or $1100 for two guns), I'll take two complete guns in a heartbeat (in fact, that's what I did). :53:

But someone else may feel differently about it and go the other way.

Yeah, I hear ya on getting 2 instead of one. I already had a couple .22's before I got the AR. For me, I went the .22 conversion route for my 5.56 upper, so it turned out even cheaper in the end. I picked up the conversion (CMMG one) for only $100 locally, so it really would be a potential discount of $400 less than getting 2 guns, and for that $400, one could pick up 1k rds of .223 AND about 6k rds of .22! My main goal was to be able to practice cheaply with the AR, and I haven't had any problems other than 1-2 stovepipes with the .22 kit through over 1k rds so far...

It is always nice to have more guns though... although my wife thinks it ridiculous our family has 3-1 ratio with firearms. :D