PDA

View Full Version : I got a 1911!


TD2K
12-29-2010, 09:45 PM
I can finally post in the 1911 forum! (sorta) Hubby got me a GSG 1911 .22 for Christmas. I've never seen such a thing, but I'm excited about it cause I can shoot all day w/o having to take out a 2nd mortgage on the house. It also has a threaded barrel so if we EVER get the suppressors we ordered I can have some fun with that too.

He says I gotta learn to clean it myself though, which I'm NOT looking forward to :(


http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2795/20101227141254563.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9969/20101227141305750.jpg

TD2K
12-29-2010, 10:09 PM
Hoping to try it out at the range tomorrow or Friday. Can't. Wait.

Slynchee
12-29-2010, 10:13 PM
nice looking gun. congrats

Bawanna
12-29-2010, 10:19 PM
That really is nice and I don't think it will be hard to clean. Often times with 22's a pull thru with a bore snake is all you really need. Clean it good every 4 or 5 trips.
Can't wait to hear how it shoots. I been wanting a 22 top end but maybe a dedicated 22 1911 would make more sense. Who needs a reason for another gun anyhow.

I'm so happy for you?

TD2K
12-29-2010, 10:23 PM
he hates cleaning his duty 1911, so he said he's going to teach me how to clean this one myself. poo!

he said I'm at my "limit" now, I gotta start cleaning my guns myself. I think I can change his mind though.... :blushing:

Bawanna
12-29-2010, 10:25 PM
Next he'll want you to clean his duty 1911 and his fish too! MEN!!!:mad:

TD2K
12-29-2010, 10:30 PM
exactly........


I bought him a really fancy cleaning kit, thought that would take care of it!

WMD
12-31-2010, 02:58 PM
Hey...., wait a minute! My wife prefers to clean the fish I catch. She doesn't want me anywhere near them. Problem is...., I cannot sem to get her to clean my (or her) guns.... :D

Bawanna
12-31-2010, 03:03 PM
Women!

I still usually end up cleaning my son's guns after range sessions, and he's like 26. He's over the limit too. I have to admit that he does mess with my organizational habits as he uses my stuff when he does clean rarely.
It's a chore sometimes but only due to lack of time, the desire is still there. Who can't love fondling guns with the scent of Hoppes and potions in the air.

Dietrich
12-31-2010, 04:22 PM
I know that this will nudge me even deeper into the "Dietrich is a little strange "category but I enjoy cleaning my firearms as much as I do shooting them.It seems to have a calming effect on me somehow.I go into my workshop,put on a Bach or Brahms CD and delight in the cleaning and lubrication of each part.And when it`s all over and I hear that satisfying sound of the slide slamming home along the well oiled rails,it gives me peace in knowing she is ready to go again when needed.A clean,deadly piece of machinery that I can depend on.Get thee behind me Satan,and don`t push.

Dietrich
12-31-2010, 04:25 PM
Oh yeah,congratulations TD2K on that new handgun.Your husband must be a heck of a guy.

Bawanna
12-31-2010, 04:40 PM
I know that this will nudge me even deeper into the "Dietrich is a little strange "category but I enjoy cleaning my firearms as much as I do shooting them.It seems to have a calming effect on me somehow.I go into my workshop,put on a Bach or Brahms CD and delight in the cleaning and lubrication of each part.And when it`s all over and I hear that satisfying sound of the slide slamming home along the well oiled rails,it gives me peace in knowing she is ready to go again when needed.A clean,deadly piece of machinery that I can depend on.Get thee behind me Satan,and don`t push.

I'm with ya 100% on the rewarding and calm feeling for about the first 5 or 6 guns, after that it kind of gets like washing the wifes car, just too much.
I tell myself nearly every range trip, take only a couple, focus on those, don't spend the whole day and shoot every bullet you own but I never listen to myself. Add to that my son's who just enjoy the bang sound mostly and love to shoot making at least 2 or 3 more guns of their own, plus mine, too much.
I try not to power whine about it though, I'm fortunate and lucky to have lots of toys to choose from. I should work on cleaning a few more for their bi annual checkup this weekend. So many task, so little time.

TD2K
12-31-2010, 04:47 PM
Went to one of the local police ranges today to try out my new toy. Had a LOT of fun. This little gun is so smooth, and really accurate too! At first it shot a little high, but those witty Germans, bless their hearts, included 3 different sizes of front sights with this gun. We put on a higher front sight, and whammo, it was dead on. I shot about 150 rounds and had a blast. It was a little cool and very windy ("Wind comes sweepin down the plain"), so I didn't stay too long. Here are a couple of videos hubby shot while we were out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92TqJY34owo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTJsV_342QQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3k5Cx3iPXk


He said he MIGHT clean it for me, but it'll cost me. ;)

medezyner
12-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Thanks for the range report TD2K. What a sweet pistol and looks like a lot of fun to shoot. That is one gun that has creeped to the top of my "must have's". Throw on a supressor and I'd be in plinking heaven! How was the fit & finish? Looks like a quality gun. Use the same ammo, or mix it up? Any failures?
Sorry for the 1000 & 1 questions, but I really like this piece.

TD2K
12-31-2010, 05:14 PM
The gun is VERY well made. So smooth. The slide is really effortless, especially in comparison to how stiff the slide is on my 2 Kahr guns. I had a couple of mis-feeds, but nothing major, and I was shooting it right out of the box. Turned out one of the rounds was damaged anyway (and I loaded it twice by mistake). We shot cheap Wal-mart rounds, some hollow points, some FMJ. The safety on the back of the grip is pretty firm, you really gotta have a good hold on it. Hubby said he might be able to adjust that a bit so it's easier to grip.

Our suppressors have been on order about 9 months. :( Darn paperwork has it tied up I guess.

medezyner
12-31-2010, 05:54 PM
I'll be patiently waiting for your range report when the supressor gets a workout. :D I'd be chop'in at the bit waiting that long for the paperwork. Ah, the joys of bureaucracy.

TD2K
12-31-2010, 06:01 PM
yeah, it's getting a bit ridiculous. We ordered them in March (a .22 and a 223 for our ARs), and they've been sitting in our FFL's safe since then. Drives me CRAZY.

Bawanna
12-31-2010, 06:04 PM
I already checked out Bud's today and they are out of them. The video's only reinforced my desire to have one to call my own.
The little GSG carbine my son has is high quality and works very well. I suspect these will be no different.
Supressors ayre next to impossible in our parts, not worth the effort to me personally.
A 2 litter pop bottle and a little duct tape works for me if I need one that bad, not to say you guys shouldn't get em and play all day.

DasFriek
12-31-2010, 06:09 PM
I usually like to put my TV on Comedy Central and break out the cleaning supplies. I do my best to never take more than 3 guns to the range as it can feel overwhelming knowing i have that many dirty guns and then it turns from being a joy into a chore.
Ill clean one and a max of two a night as i take my time and get as thorough as a watch maker would when im inside my guns.
Id say it takes me 3-4 hours to clean one gun....enjoyment.
i can do it in 20 minutes....PITA!

But when i take my time i can see how wear progresses on each gun and look for trouble spots that may need my attention. It also gives me time to go over the gun mentally while i was shooting and the things i didn't like and look for ways to modify the gun to fit my needs.
Most of my mod ideas happen while cleaning.

Ill admit tho i really dislike the smell of Hoppes9, I use it on a bore every 3rd range trip. The rest is cleaned with CLP and then wiped dry and i apply the correct lube or grease. Most times over lubing as i go as i have no clue why except i know it doesn't hurt anything.

BTW im out of Wilson Ultra lube oil, I love that stuff and Slide Glide but i have plenty of that as a little goes a really long way.

TD2K
12-31-2010, 06:18 PM
I'm notorious for taking ALL of my guns and about 50 lbs of ammo to the range. Then by the time hubby shoots a couple of his, he has to spend the entire day following the trip cleaning them. I did good today though, knew we wouldn't be out there too long cause of the cold so I only took my new .22 and the Judge (cause I was actually able to find some 45LC ammo for it yesterday). WE will clean them tomorrow. ;)

Ljutic
01-01-2011, 06:03 PM
Congrats on the new acquisition. I was looking at these last week and it was a really difficult decision if I should get the GSG or track down a .22 conversion kit to use on another 1911. I ended up going the conversion kit path so please keep us posted on how you make out with your GSG.

My greatest concern was cost and availability of spare mags for the GSG. They seem expensive and much more difficult to find than the Advantage Arms conversion mags.

TD2K
01-01-2011, 06:19 PM
haven't looked for more mags yet, so we'll see.

mrsig239
01-01-2011, 06:41 PM
Congratulations on the new gun! Looks great and looks like fun shooting too.
I happen to like cleaning my guns after a range session it helps calm me down.

Bootlegger
01-22-2011, 06:52 PM
Ok it's been too long without some kind of update!! I have been holding off on getting one of thes GSG's for about 2 months now and cant wait much longer!!

Tell me something good an i'm sold!!

Have a nice day :)

Ol'coot
01-22-2011, 07:52 PM
I just turned another year older on the 18th so I am now according to my grandchildren I am ancient at 57 years old. My wife, Janice being her normal wonderful loving self really messed up and ask me what I would like to have as a birthday gift so with the door wide open and the fact that I never pass up an opportunity to add a new toy to my collection I ask for another .22 cal fun gun. This time I ask for one of the ATI GSG 1911 as I have had the bug for one of these for a while. As most of you already know It is a German made .22 cal semi-auto pistol built on the original Colt 1911 design, it is full size gun and 90% of the parts will interchange with the full size .45 Cal 1911. It has a very good trigger that is very smooth with almost no creep that brakes at about 5 lbs pull, nice and crisp. It also has very nice Novak style low mount sights (three dot) and it feels great in the hand. Both front and rear sights are in machined dovetails for easy adjustments or replacement and It came with one 10 round magazine and I purchase one extra. I have not shot it yet but may tomorrow if I can find the time, The indoor range at the gun club has been very busy the past few weekends with CPL classes and other gun functions so I may have to go one weekday evening.

Here is a photo of my addition:D

GSG 1911

http://www.photographicendeavors.com/img/v19/p288600119-5.jpg

Bootlegger
01-22-2011, 08:22 PM
OOoooh yeah, now we're talkin!! Question: do they make it in stainless?

TheTman
01-22-2011, 08:39 PM
I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun plinking with it. It's a great way to practice your shooting without breaking the bank. Have fun!!!

Ol'coot
01-23-2011, 08:38 AM
OOoooh yeah, now we're talkin!! Question: do they make it in stainless?

I don't think they offer this one in Stainless but here are linkes to the Importer and the manufacturer.

German Sport Guns GSG-1911 (http://gsg-1911.com/)

American Tactical Imports GSG 1911 (http://dealer.americantactical.us/products/?category=Lasers+%26amp%3B+Lights)

TD2K
01-24-2011, 07:07 AM
if you don't mind my asking, how much was the extra mag? I saw them on the dealer site hubby orders from, thought about getting 1 or two more. Think they were about $22.

TD2K
01-24-2011, 07:09 AM
I had to change the front site out when I went to the range, it was shooting a little high. Be sure to take the extra front sights and allen wrench with you to the range, just in case.

Ol'coot
01-24-2011, 07:37 AM
if you don't mind my asking, how much was the extra mag? I saw them on the dealer site hubby orders from, thought about getting 1 or two more. Think they were about $22.

I go what I think was a good deal on the gun it was $325.76 out the door. but the extra magazine was high $29.99. I have done extensive research and have not been able to find them for less. It is my understanding after talking to the ATI rep that they cannot keep up with the high demand and have shipped many thousands of extra magazine to dealers but still have not filled the demand. I have found that all of my .22 cal pistol mags are higher cost than they should be, I paid about the same for my extra mags for my Sig Mosquito. If you can find them for $22.00 each I would suggest you buy them now. and post a link to where they can be bought for that price I would like to pick up a couple more.

TD2K
01-24-2011, 09:35 AM
it's the husband's dealer price

TD2K
01-24-2011, 09:40 AM
they also make an all black version that has a light rail on the bottom.

correction: magazine is $23.50 dealer price, retails for $37.95 (ouch)

Ol'coot
01-30-2011, 08:18 PM
I finally was able to get to the range this evening to try out my GSG 1911. I am very impressed with this little gun as is quite the shooter, between myself, my son and my wife we put a full 550 round bulk pack of Federal 36gr HP through this gun and it ran flawless . I did have one FTF but it was a bad round not the gun. Trigger is very good for right out the box about 5.5 Lbs and a nice crisp break. They shipped the gun with 3 different plastic front sights, Both the front and rear sights are dovetailed in it with a small set screw to lock them in place. If was shipped with the medium height front sight installed and we were shooting at 25 yards free hand and were able to maintain most of the round in a 2 inch ring. This gun is really a lot of fun to shoot and feel great in the hand, I am sure that it will quickly become one of my favorite plinkers.

http://www.photographicendeavors.com/img/s1/v22/p460007829-5.jpg

wyntrout
01-30-2011, 08:27 PM
Those are nice looking guns and are sure to help get rid of any surplus .22LR you have laying about. I have a bunch and don't have anything that's fun to shoot... not like that, anyhow.
I still have a few bricks of UMC that I got on sale for $7 something a box(500 rds) and a slew of various types of hollow points. I'll have to wait on any more acquisitions, though. I still have to get sights for my "new" 1911 and i just ordered a pile of magazines for it.
My birthday is in June and I think this was it... and Christmas is a LONG way off. :D

Wynn:yo:

O'Dell
01-30-2011, 09:30 PM
I know that this will nudge me even deeper into the "Dietrich is a little strange "category but I enjoy cleaning my firearms as much as I do shooting them.It seems to have a calming effect on me somehow.I go into my workshop,put on a Bach or Brahms CD and delight in the cleaning and lubrication of each part.And when it`s all over and I hear that satisfying sound of the slide slamming home along the well oiled rails,it gives me peace in knowing she is ready to go again when needed.A clean,deadly piece of machinery that I can depend on.Get thee behind me Satan,and don`t push.

Too bad we don't live closer to one another. I could get you calmed down a couple of times a week. I love shooting, but I hate cleaning. To make it worst, I'm OCD about it whether it's my house, cars, motorcycle or guns. I clean a gun the same day I shoot it and whether it's one round or 300.

Bawanna
03-09-2011, 05:22 PM
There are a half dozen or so of these GSG's NIB on gunbroker for around 305 at the moment. 1 seller has 5 listed as I recall.

Theres one for 430 brand new with 3 brand new extra mags. Only 7 or 8 more hours on that one.

Very tempting.

jocko
03-09-2011, 05:29 PM
ol coot: that is really one nice looking 22 style 1911.Iwish though they would not put that READ MANUAL BEFOURE USE on the dman guns, why not put a sticker there and not dirty up te frames with all that worthless VERBAGE.

I really like the looks of that gun . That price IMO is super to.

I did notice one thing in reading their webb site concerning warranty: They stated IT IS THE RESPONSIBLTY OF THE OWNER TO SHIP THE GUN BACK FOR ANY SERVICE.

O'Dell
03-09-2011, 05:54 PM
I did notice one thing in reading their webb site concerning warranty: They stated IT IS THE RESPONSIBLTY OF THE OWNER TO SHIP THE GUN BACK FOR ANY SERVICE.[/QUOTE]

I think that's ATI policy. I sold my compact ATI 1911 45, but I did sent it back once to have the extractor tuned. I shipped it through my LGS and it cost me $9.

kyletx1911
03-12-2011, 07:21 AM
i am late grats on the heater btw the first idiot scratch is yours,lol

gb6491
04-22-2011, 07:33 PM
Hi all,
Thought this article might be of interest to some in this thread:
http://www.jmtpublishing.com/articles/2011/A_GSG_1911_Jan_7.asp
There is mention of a new steel barrel bushing to replace the alloy one, plus info about replacement/re-designed slide stops and magazine followers.
Regards,
Greg

Diocoles
05-03-2011, 05:34 AM
Same here. I love to detail strip and clean a weapon. Inspect everything.
My wife will be puttering away doing stuff in the kitchen and I'll just sit at the table and clean all the little parts and check everything out with my magnifying headset.
Used to love to build model planes, now it's guns. It also helped me quit smoking. Kept my hands busy.

DriveMyKahr
05-03-2011, 08:58 AM
...This time I ask for one of the ATI GSG 1911 as I have had the bug for one of these for a while. As most of you already know It is a German made .22 cal semi-auto pistol built on the original Colt 1911 design, it is full size gun and 90% of the parts will interchange with the full size .45 Cal 1911. It has a very good trigger that is very smooth with almost no creep that brakes at about 5 lbs pull, nice and crisp. It also has very nice Novak style low mount sights (three dot) and it feels great in the hand. Both front and rear sights are in machined dovetails for easy adjustments or replacement...
http://www.photographicendeavors.com/img/s1/v22/p460007829-5.jpg

My son purchased an ATI GSG 1911 last month and we have had some serious range time with it (close to 1000 rounds through it). I agree with everything you said in your initial review. This is a quality handgun. You will realize that the first time you hold it...very natural for 1911 lovers. The big surprise will be when you squeeze the trigger for the first time... very smooth and very accurate. My son was consistently producing 3-5 inch groups at 50 ft. right out of the box. Breakdown for cleaning is easy and intuitive.

I have had many handguns that have come and gone over the years and the one that I will never part with is a High Standard M107 Military Trophy .22lr handgun that I purchased 35 years ago. As a 1911 style target gun it is the ultimate in looks and feel and accuracy that cannot be challenged in its class. It is truly a competition class handgun. It gets more range time than any of my other handguns simply because it is a joy to shoot.

In my experience there has not been anything that has come along since then that is a much FUN to shoot as the GSG 1911. There is nothing to learn about this handgun. It is a quality 1911 style handgun in every respect that will command respect from .22 enthusiasts.

These days a box of 500 rounds of .22lr is about $18-20, compared to 100 rounds of WWB 9mm ammo at $23. You can shoot all day at a fraction of the price and recoil. I have carry guns like my Kahr PM9 and I have fun guns like my High Standard 107. The GSG 1911 is quickly making its way to the top of my “next gun” list.

Disclaimer: American Tactical Imports (ATI Rochester) is located 3 miles from my house… and I drive by it twice a day. No, I do not work for them and have never had a reason to walk through their doorway. Other than visiting their booth at the last gun show, I have never had direct contact with them although everything I have heard about their customer service and customer satisfaction has been very positive.
http://dealer.americantactical.us/products (http://dealer.americantactical.us/products)

Bawanna
05-03-2011, 09:10 AM
Dang it, that does it! Now I gotta get one of those. They do look quality and everyone has nothing but good stuff to say about them other than maybe extra mags are expensive but perhaps small price to pay.

Plus I might be able to afford one of these much sooner than the next 45.

DriveMyKahr
05-03-2011, 09:32 AM
Dang it, that does it! Now I gotta get one of those. They do look quality and everyone has nothing but good stuff to say about them other than maybe extra mags are expensive but perhaps small price to pay.

Plus I might be able to afford one of these much sooner than the next 45.


Bawanna,
You will not be sorry. It is a joy to shoot and deserves to be in the FUN gun class.



TD2K,
Help me out here... you looked like you were having fun in the videos.
Give us your thoughts. FUN gun?

TucsonMTB
05-03-2011, 09:33 AM
Hi all,
Thought this article might be of interest to some in this thread:
http://www.jmtpublishing.com/articles/2011/A_GSG_1911_Jan_7.asp
There is mention of a new steel barrel bushing to replace the alloy one, plus info about replacement/re-designed slide stops and magazine followers.
Regards,
Greg
Hey Greg! Thanks for the link. That is a great article.

Warning: It may make you want to rush right out and buy one of these neat toys. ;)

TD2K
05-03-2011, 10:19 AM
Bawanna,
You will not be sorry. It is a joy to shoot and deserves to be in the FUN gun class.

TD2K,
Help me out here... you looked like you were having fun in the videos.
Give us you thoughts. FUN gun?


very VERY fun. I can shoot all day and not break the bank. My only complaint is those 10 rounds go way too fast! Feels like all I do is reload. Need another couple of magazines. or three.

MW surveyor
05-03-2011, 01:25 PM
Whoa, that looks good! Thanks for posting Ol'Coot!

DKD
05-03-2011, 01:27 PM
I had purchased a conversion upper slide and magazine for my Officer Model 4"Colt & Kimber Pro Raptor 45 ACP's. Mine works great and the extra magazines were availabe from Midway USA for about $ 15.00 each.

Bawanna
05-03-2011, 01:31 PM
I had purchased a conversion upper slide and magazine for my Officer Model 4"Colt & Kimber Pro Raptor 45 ACP's. Mine works great and the extra magazines were availabe from Midway USA for about $ 15.00 each.

Which conversion did you get again, I can't remember? I thought of going that route also but the good conversions are darn near as much as this GSG. I thought might be just as good to have another complete toy. If the toy box gets full just get a bigger toy box, ya know?

zebraD
05-04-2011, 07:28 AM
A good friend of mine bought one of those GSG's and he loves it. If it were me I'd get the GSG just so that I had another toy.

TD2K
05-04-2011, 02:06 PM
exactly.

TD2K
07-15-2011, 06:07 AM
was cruising around Academy sports last night and spotted this:

http://gunsgunsguns.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/SIG-Sauer-1911-22-right.jpg

looked familiar...........

everything looked identical to my GSG, even the writing. About the only difference I could see was that grips were a little different pattern. hmmmm

for comparison:
http://protektsolutions.com/images/GERG2210M1911.jpg

O'Dell
07-15-2011, 09:53 AM
I know that this will nudge me even deeper into the "Dietrich is a little strange "category but I enjoy cleaning my firearms as much as I do shooting them.It seems to have a calming effect on me somehow.I go into my workshop,put on a Bach or Brahms CD and delight in the cleaning and lubrication of each part.And when it`s all over and I hear that satisfying sound of the slide slamming home along the well oiled rails,it gives me peace in knowing she is ready to go again when needed.A clean,deadly piece of machinery that I can depend on.Get thee behind me Satan,and don`t push.

I think you are unique - I hate cleaning guns. I'm going to the range today so don't be surprised by a UPS package in a couple of days with two or three dirty pistols and cleaning instructions. :D

JFootin
07-15-2011, 10:25 AM
I know that this will nudge me even deeper into the "Dietrich is a little strange "category but I enjoy cleaning my firearms as much as I do shooting them.It seems to have a calming effect on me somehow.I go into my workshop,put on a Bach or Brahms CD and delight in the cleaning and lubrication of each part.And when it`s all over and I hear that satisfying sound of the slide slamming home along the well oiled rails,it gives me peace in knowing she is ready to go again when needed.A clean,deadly piece of machinery that I can depend on.Get thee behind me Satan,and don`t push.

Brahms Concerto in D Major for Violin is my favorite piece of classical music. This was the only violin concerto that Brahms ever wrote, but IMO it is the best ever written! I have a CD of a mono recording (recorded November 1953) of Nathan Milstein performing it with the Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra on a heavenly sounding Stradivarius. Nathan is the only soloist that I have heard do this concerto as the author intended, without sloppy personal embellishments. It is available from EMI Classics. Though it is mono, it was recorded wonderfully using a very good microphone. I originally had it on vinyl, but searched and found it remastered to CD many years ago.

TD2K
07-15-2011, 12:26 PM
Awesome! How do the specs compare to yours? $400 MSRP should translate into a bargain, I would think.



The Dealer Price for the GSG is $299, with a $399 MSRP

Academy had the Sig for $359. Hubby's dealer site doesn't have it yet, so I can't check that price

TD2K
07-15-2011, 12:28 PM
oh, and our .22 suppressor FINALLY came in (after 16 LONG months). Gotta find the threaded piece that goes on the barrel of my GSG and then I'll have some REAL fun.

JFootin
07-15-2011, 12:46 PM
The Dealer Price for the GSG is $299, with a $399 MSRP

Academy had the Sig for $359. Hubby's dealer site doesn't have it yet, so I can't check that price

That is a mighty nice looking gun! I found it on sale at GunsAmerica for $339 with free shipping.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/912358841/Guns/Pistols/Sig-Sauer-Sigarms-Pistols/1911/Sig_Sauer_1911_22_22LR_NEW_FREE_SHI.htm

JFootin
07-15-2011, 01:05 PM
Now, if they just made this in 22WMR, it might be viable for SD. At that price, it would really give the Kel Tec PMR-30 some competition, too.

Rainman48314
09-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Hoping to try it out at the range tomorrow or Friday. Can't. Wait.
Congrats! I have one too. Its accurate and fun. Mine has never jammed and has just 700 rounds thru it.