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MW surveyor
04-18-2011, 07:45 AM
(pun intended :D )

A couple of months ago I asked some questions regarding 1911's and got some good advice, so .....

I've done my homework regarding reloading for the 45 ACP and find that I can reload them for very near the same cost as my 9mm, 38 and 357 as far as cast bullets go. FMJs are just a few cents more expensive as well as the large pistol primers. Reloading is the way to go to be able to shoot the 45 on a regular basis.

Now for the $64,000 question (yes I'm old enough to remembe that show:( ).

Presently in the running are RIA GI, AO GI, Para Ordanance GI Expert (all 5") and quite possibly an officers model. From what I've read, all seem to be good choices. Don't really like the GI sights but I know that they can be changed out for about $40.00, one of the reasons I like the PO GI Expert (plus the looks of the trigger and hammer). So, which would you buy and why?

Second question, what is this about hammer bite? Read about it but how in the heck is the hammer hitting your hand if you keep your hand below the beaver tail?

Third question, is there a 22 cal conversion for an officers model?

Thanks in advance. Gonna be working at other things today so I'll check back from time to time.

jlottmc
04-18-2011, 09:28 AM
Of those the RIA would probably get the nod from me, just because I hear good things about them and they are MILSPEC which makes life easier if it does have a bad day. The hammer bite is cured by a beaver tail grip safety, and remember that without it the grip safety is basically a notch. The other part of that cure is to use a non-spur type hammer. Five inch guns seem to run the best, and the short Officers also seem to have most of the bugs worked out, but are still somewhat picky. Umrex has some good stuff from what I saw when I bought my commander. I personally love that length (4.25" for a true commander), and the 5" guns are my second favorite of the 1911's. As for the choices, any of them should be good to go. There was an article in either Guns, American Handgunner, Combat Handguns, or Shotgun News that detailed quite nicely some of the reasons a true 1911A1 has been improved over the years and become what we all know and love. Things like the sights, and the addition of the beavertail grip safety, as well as the ring hammer are the big ones. It was earlier this year, I'll see if i can find it when I get home. I know little about the conversion kits, but assume that there may be some out there for the Officer's size.

MW surveyor
04-18-2011, 10:29 AM
jlottmac - Thanks for the input. I've got to back to one of the nearby LGS to look at the RIAs again and see if they have any of the officer's models available.

As far as the conversion kits for the shorter barrel, I'll do a google search.

Trying to do some of my paperwork while watching the granddaughter as the wife went out to the grocery store. At least that's what she told me when she left over 2 hours ago. Called just two minutes ago, she still has to do the grocery shoping. What a laff!

DKD
04-18-2011, 11:28 AM
Yes the Colt Offiocers model is a 4" slide. My Kimber Pro Raptor is a 4" and I have the 22 cal conversion for it and it works real well. Does need to use CCI mini mags or high velocity cartridges.

jlottmc
04-18-2011, 11:42 AM
I thought the Officer's was a shorter grip length and a 3.5" bbl, where a Commander was the 4-4.25" bbl on the full size frame. Not trying to bag on you there but I always thought that was the break down, and those sub-compact 1911's were pretty finicky, but are a lot better now.

Bawanna
04-18-2011, 12:13 PM
Officers models are shorter grips and generally 3 1/2" barrels. I imagine the conversions would not be effected by the grip length but maybe so.

Personally I'd get what you want for a 45 and get a GSG like TD2K for a 1911 22caliber. Probably about the same money as a good quality conversion kit too. I think you'd come out with a much more harmonius outcome.

I know I got one on my want list.

gb6491
04-18-2011, 12:19 PM
I thought the Officer's was a shorter grip length and a 3.5" bbl, where a Commander was the 4-4.25" bbl on the full size frame. Not trying to bag on you there but I always thought that was the break down, and those sub-compact 1911's were pretty finicky, but are a lot better now.
Colt's Officer's ACP does have a 3.5" barrel and a shorter grip than the Government/Commander size guns. There are Commander frame size guns with Officer length slides and Officer frames with Commander length slides out there as well. (Oops, I see Bawanna was faster on the trigger!)
I have an Officer's ACP that has been very reliable for me. I came up with my own recoil spring system (using an ISMI flat wire spring) for it several years and don't have to change springs nearly as often now.
http://oi34.tinypic.com/10qe1bd.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zb59i0.jpg

Ciener makes a .22 conversion for Officer size guns;
http://www.22lrconversions.com/1911-pg.htm

FWIW, Springfield Armory's Mil-Spec guns are pretty close to the Para GI Expert's price point (dependent where you shop) and (IMO) are well worth a look.

Regards,
Greg

Bawanna
04-18-2011, 12:24 PM
Springfield reportedly has very good customer service also which might be worth considering. I have 3 Para's but don't recall ever having to deal with them for repairs or warranty issues.

Jocko I think has dealt with them. I'm sure they are fine also for that matter.

Bawanna
04-18-2011, 12:26 PM
I love that recoil spring GB. That's an excellent idea right there. Probably why it never crossed my mind.

I had an officers model Colt when they first came out long ago. It never gave me an issue. Not once. Amid all the horror stories back in the day I felt pretty lucky. Mine worked, that's all I cared about.

gb6491
04-18-2011, 12:47 PM
I love that recoil spring GB. That's an excellent idea right there...
Thanks Bawanna. I saw on another forum that EGW is offering something very close to it as a kit now. I did use their recoil spring guide when piecing my setup together (the other part is a Clark reverse plug). EGW appears to being using all the same parts; I just don't know if they decreased the plug's and recoil guide rod's flange thickness like I did. BTW, all three (Clark, EGW, and ISMI) are excellent folks to work with.

... Mine worked, that's all I cared about.
Darn, that's good advice and so appropriate for another ongoing thread here.

Regards,
Greg

earle8888
04-18-2011, 01:39 PM
Just for trivia purposes Colt Double Eagle, Officers Model has a 3 1/2 top and full size frame, i.e. regular size, lengh, mags.

Mudinyeri
04-18-2011, 01:57 PM
It only took me 27 years to get over my negative perception of the 1911 based on the one I qualified with in the Army. I added a Springfield Loaded to my collection earlier this year. I would strongly suggest that you add Springfield to the list of 1911 brands to consider.

MW surveyor
04-18-2011, 03:29 PM
Thanks for the input.

Went to four different gun stores within the immediate area of my house. Bypassed Academy and Gander for today. So far, no Springfields found.

My favorite LGS (with the exception of the evil pawn shop) had a Para Ordanence GI Expert in Stainless for $570. This is a pretty good price from what I can tell as the MSRP is $740. Like the stainless, like the sights, hammer is good, trigger is lightened and also adjustable for over travel and it comes with 2 ss 8 round mags. I'm give'n myself one more day to look around. Will probably hit Academy this evening.

Bawanna
04-18-2011, 03:34 PM
Academy must be a Texas thing. Heard Jdlott mention the place, think that's where Jlott just bought his commander but I never heard of it.

Theres a ton to choose from out there. Lots and lots of options. I suck at patience but do your homework and make yourself happy.

I dont have a Para Gi Expert but have 3 LDA's. I think they are a great gun.

Jeepster runs Paras and Jeep also I believe or did for awhile.

I like stainless too. Makes it easier if you change anything, you don't have to refinish. Dings and scratches can be cleaned up. Plus I'm into shiney stuff.

MW surveyor
04-18-2011, 03:53 PM
Yea, ever since I got the SP 101 I've been gravitating to shiney guns (or at least a stainless steel slide as in the case of the CW9). Definately a major plus with clean up and looks in the SS. If you get a scratch on a blued or parkerized finish and even if you've been able to do something to cover it, you know it is still there.

Just looked up the price on Buds. They've got it for $603 with free shipping. So when I have to pay the sales tax here, I'd be in the hole for about $16.00. But...there would be no transfer fee, plus I've got a place to go if I need help and it helps the guy stay in business.

Academy is a Texas thing but they do have store in Louisana also. Not sure where else they are. Their prices are generally good on most items as they can buy a lot. I will not buy anything from Gander Mountain, the home of the price gouging b*strds.

TucsonMTB
04-18-2011, 04:25 PM
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/images/6700.jpg

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6700.html

Bawanna
04-18-2011, 04:40 PM
gb mentioned that Ruger on another thread. Hadn't had a chance to go look for a picture on their website.

Hard to comprehend that Ruger is jumping on the 1911 bandwagon.

That is one fine looking example though. I love Ruger revolvers and have several, never did mesh well with their auto's though cept of course the MkII's and 22 stuff.

Hopeing it's just a gem and Ruger does well with this new one.

So much for my short lived feeling of gun contentment. Now I want one of those too. Dang it!

TheTman
04-18-2011, 04:43 PM
Sounds like you found a good price on the Para Ordinance. Of the brands you mentioned, I'd probably go with that one at that price.
I'd also give Springfield a look if you can find one. I've really enjoyed mine, it's not had any major problems in 15 years or so, but it does have those crappy sights on it.
If I was looking for a budget priced one, people seem to like the RIA guns. I've seen a lot of them at gun shows for $400.
A friend just called, said someone his son knew needed money to pay his taxes, and was selling his Kimber for $500, less than half of what he paid for it. I told him I'd jump all over that, and if he didn't get it to be sure and let me know.

MW surveyor
04-18-2011, 06:24 PM
I asked my dealer about the Ruger 1911. He is on the list to get one or two but he is not sure of when they will come in. Also, price may be between $600 and $700 but he also wasn't sure on that either. While the gun test results look promising, sure would like to have a gun with a proven track record.

Like I said earlier, can't seem to locate a Springfield anywhere around me. Plus now that I've actually seen and held the Para in stainless. Blued just isn't making it any more.

The RIA GI is $410 with one mag at the other local gun shop and I've read good things about them. I was leaning towards these but then I thought about replacing the sights with something I can see, probably replacing the hammer and then the trigger. So now I'm up to or just over $500, plus it would still be a blued gun.


Even with some of the horror stories I heard about Kimbers, I'd be all over it for $500. Good luck with that.

jeepster09
04-18-2011, 07:17 PM
I am fond of Para Ordnance's....

MW surveyor
04-18-2011, 09:09 PM
jeepster - any problems with yours?

I actually looked at an LDA maybe 1 year ago but couldn't justify it at the time. Really liked the trigger and the pistol but you know how these things go.

Still can't justify a 1911 45 as it adds another caliber to my small stable ..... but, I'm not getting any younger and need to get one now!

Just hope that I don't put any idiot scraches on the stainless!

jlottmc
04-19-2011, 06:41 AM
I have a guy that I work with and his daughter works for Academy, she's about to come back from FL. So apparently they are a big box store in the South East. I generally only buy knives and other outdoor stuff from them, occasionally ammo, and only two guns. I'm not a big fan of how they have the manager escort you out when you buy a gun. In fact I asked about that, and was told its a feel good policy. I asked what about the CHL that I use and carry weapon when he said I couldn't be trusted to walk to the front register with a gun and no ammo. I never got a straight answer to that one.

Bawanna
04-19-2011, 09:15 AM
Yup, ours up here do it also. No getting around it.

jlottmc
04-19-2011, 09:17 AM
How is that a liability issue? I used my CHL in place of the phone call, and generally speaking, I would assume that if you use that to buy a gun that one would be carrying one. If that is the insurance bits, then they need to lose my business and all the business of this market. There's no good reason for it, and I do take that as an affront, if not from the corporate honchos then the insurance company. Why should some one who just made a legal purchase be treated like a criminal. Keep in mind they also asked when I bought the thing if I needed ammo too, so what would stop some one from getting escorted from walking right back in after loading up? I still say some one needs a good spanking over that kind of policy. Not to take offense with any on this forum, but the more I think about it the less I like it.

MW surveyor
04-19-2011, 09:26 AM
jlottmac

There are so many policies everywhere that don't make any sense (at least to me and you). I guess that they don't want you loading up in the store on your way out. What you do outside of the store is not their concern. I'm sure that there have been many instances where someone bought a gun and ammo, loaded it up and proceeded to rob the place. Maybe not at Academy but elsewhere.

BTW - they do the same thing at BassPro here.

Bawanna
04-19-2011, 09:38 AM
I'm usually so happy to get the new gun that the walk me to the door policy goes completely unnoticed. Course being in a chair and since I usually only buy rifles from our local big box, it's easier for them to pack the Nagants etc. I usually have them carry it all the way to the van so I dont drop it before I get it home. Less of course it's a French rifle, then I don't worry too much, I know it's already been dropped at least once.

You need to shop at another store jlott.

jlottmc
04-19-2011, 11:17 AM
I usually do. Like I said my irk is not here but at those kinds of policies. Not only does it say anti-gun, is insulting, but the fact that those of us who have proven to be trustworthy are not just because some shiester has to get his jollies and complicate the world.
Just baffles my little mind is all.

Bawanna
04-19-2011, 11:37 AM
A really good gunshop I use to visit quite frequently as it was enroute from work to home was just the opposite to guys they knew and trusted.

They got an officers model colt in for me many many years ago. I was wearing an empty Miami Classic shoulder rig when I left work in anticipation of picking it up.

When I got there without discussion they got it out and I checked it out. While I was completing the paperwork one of the guys behind the counter not even knowing I had the holster on loaded it and the two spare mags, stated it was hot and laid it on the counter next to me. I picked it up and holstered it before someone else could inadvertantly handle it.

A guy at the other end of the counter had just filled out paper and was told to come get his in 5 days. (Dreaded waiting period) He was apparently new and didn't have a permit. He was kind of put out and asked why I just got mine right away.

The jokers that worked there in classic style said he has a carry permit and by the way do you have any idea who that man is? I laughed knowing of course that I'm less than a nobody but that other guy's whole attitude changed. He was looking me over hard. I still laugh remembering that day.
He's probably still wondering who I am too.

MW surveyor
04-19-2011, 01:00 PM
:D

Picked up the Para GI Expert after having the shop owner show me exactly how to strip the gun and to keep the idiot scratch from occuring. I've never really had to strip a 1911 down before and yes I did read the manual before I bought it. Also bought 200 rounds of 230 FMJ factory ammo, some gun grease and some more patches (need them anyway).

Then I went to the reloading shop and bought the 45 Auto dies, 1K of large pistol primers, additional turret and a few ammo storage cases. They were just about completly out of 45 caliber bullets in anything like 200 or 230 grain. So now I'll have to wait on a bullet order to come in before I reload for this gun. Or have to pay about $90.00 for 500 plated bullets (ouch!). Gotta break it in anyway so I guess I can wait.

Will be stripping it down, cleaning and lubing later this evening. Pictures to follow in a separate thread.

Not sure of when I'll be able to fire it with the granddaugter here and the remaining clan coming in on Thursday. Hope to maybe sneak out tomorrow.

Bawanna
04-19-2011, 01:37 PM
Excellent. This was the stainless one or was that a different one.

I'm thrilled for ya.

Check out Precision Delta for jacketed ball 230 grainers. Good stuff, good price. About the same price as the plated when I ordered mine. Have to check but I thought it was about 100 for 1000? Maybe I'm way off on that. You'll need all you can get. Your gonna love shooting that thing.

You got much brass saved up in anticipation of this wonderful day?

MW surveyor
04-19-2011, 09:32 PM
Thanks. I'm pretty stoked but being an "adult" about it. (Didn't go right to the range after picking it up.)

Got the stainless one. It's not real shiney with kind of a mat finish. I expect that I might be putting a little polish on it down the road.

Didn't get to break it down this evening but will do it in the morning. This gun is pretty tight and will need to be well lubed to help run it in.

Para says to fire 500 rounds of break in. Hope that it doesn't take that many!

Checked out Precision Delta the other day. Can't really remember the price for the 230 gr but I think it was just a bit less than $100 for 1000. They did not have any in stock from what I can remember.

I didn't count the empties but I got two quart size jars full. Chucked 1/2 them in the tumbler this morning then the rest this afternoon. Nice and shiney :) . Just have to separate them into mfg, deprime/size and then reprime to get ready to load em up.

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 07:37 AM
Broke it down this morning, cleaned and lubed up.

Pictures to follow!

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 08:45 AM
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l605/MWsurveyor/GIexpertright.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l605/MWsurveyor/GIexpertleft.jpg

YEAH IT WORKED AGAIN!!!!!

Bawanna - the Precision Delta 230 FMJs are $119 per 1000. Unfortunately they are back ordered. Gonna have to order in some 230 RNL and 200 LSWCs from my local supplier. They should come in next week.

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 09:11 AM
Nice gun. I like it alot.

Change your signature line, it's ACP Automatic Colt Pistol, not APC which I think is a military rig to ride around in maybe.

Oh yeah, it needs grips!

jlottmc
04-20-2011, 09:16 AM
Oooh that looks sexy. I agree it needs grips. You know Bawanna, you might be able to make a mint on those now. I think my wife told you that I had some one all but offer. I didn't feel right throwing your name out there like a credit card though (first time I saw the guy was right then), but you could start setting some prices, and then probably quit your day job. The downside is that hobby you enjoy would then become work.

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 09:23 AM
Oooh that looks sexy. I agree it needs grips. You know Bawanna, you might be able to make a mint on those now. I think my wife told you that I had some one all but offer. I didn't feel right throwing your name out there like a credit card though (first time I saw the guy was right then), but you could start setting some prices, and then probably quit your day job. The downside is that hobby you enjoy would then become work.

Yeah, that would suck huh? But it would be a good work. Not sure I can go fast enough to make a living though. I better stick with hobby status.
As I told your wife I'm ok with contacts. My wife has me reading the book "Just say NO". Funny I got it for her as shes always volunteering for stuff, now she says it's my turn. At least I get a little loot to support my hobby, from you and many others.

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 10:49 AM
Doh! Fixed the sig line. You mean its not Automatic Pistol Cartridge? Backwards things say I sometimes. (in Yoda voice) :)

I'm thinking about putting zebra wood grips on it to match my SP101 since I've got a fair bit left. Or ebony, or ......

Got my order in for 500 200 gr LSWC, 500 230 gr LRN and another 500 rounds of 125 gr RNL for the 9mm. Still have over 1000 rounds for the 38/357 so I'm good there. They started charging sales tax .......grrrrr. So now I'm paying about 0.087 cents per round (average with shipping) in bullets.

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 10:54 AM
I got a lot of Zebra wood and a fair amount of ebony if you need some. Either in the raw or turn key.

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 11:00 AM
I'll let you know when I make up my mind. Like that's gonna happen soon. I made red/black micarta, oak, lacewood and zebra wood inserts for the SP101 and change them out on a regular basis! Also made some grips for my S&W 422 in the zebra wood and oak. I've got to decide on what would look the best (in my eyes).

BTW-what's the going rate?

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 11:14 AM
I'll let you know when I make up my mind. Like that's gonna happen soon. I made red/black micarta, oak, lacewood and zebra wood inserts for the SP101 and change them out on a regular basis! Also made some grips for my S&W 422 in the zebra wood and oak. I've got to decide on what would look the best (in my eyes).

BTW-what's the going rate?

Have you had a gender reassignment surgery lately. Perhaps we need the bawanna variety pack designed to go with any ensemble. Supplied with quick release cotter pins. I have a special on what we've effectionately come to refer to as Jocko Pink. A hot seller and hot pink too.

My rate- Fair to damn good when I get lucky.

I'm cheap and I can be had. Besides I owe ya don't I? I gotta check out my payback list. Actually I have two payback list, the good favor payback list and the bad I gotta get even payback list.

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 11:28 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOh.....Jocko Pink grips, I'm gonna swoon! (but don't tell jocko, he might get upset as he probably is the only one with those "special" grips)

Last I looked (about 10 min ago) plumbing remains the same. Just seem to like varity.

I'll PM you when I make a decision(s). I like the idea of quick change grips. Maybe you could patent them?

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 11:33 AM
Please, please for the love of all things decent, no pictures of that plumbing. We believe you!

Many if not everybody believe that Jocko having the only "special" set of pink grips is a really good thing, although JDlott did express some genuine interest in a set for Jlott in the future. Maybe I got that message mixed up and they were for her? I better clarify that, Jlott has my address and I do so hate wearing body armor around the house with summer coming on.

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 11:39 AM
I've never had to wear the new body armor so I'll take your word on it being hot. Can't be any worse than those stupid flak jackets we had to wear on the ships going into Saigon.

Yea, you might want to get the lotts correct.

I gotta get back to work. Either that or go out to the shed and start depriming/resizing and priming up the 45 cases.

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 11:45 AM
Personally I'd go to the shed work sucks! Course deprimed brass doesn't eat very well though. Not fair.

jlottmc
04-20-2011, 11:47 AM
It is for her. It would be easy enough to put on Her stuff when I get that. I think the next fire arm purchase in my house is going to be that rifle for my daughter. MW, I know for a fact that the grand POObah has some mesquite left over (if he hasn't lit the grill lately), it looks pretty darn good.

Bawanna
04-20-2011, 11:51 AM
We still haven't gotten that little girl that rifle yet???? I thought we checked that off the list long ago. Shame on you.........Hint..they do make pink stocked Chipmunks. Not chipmunk anymore, Rogue River maybe??


I do indeed have lots of Mesquite in a holding pattern. Doubt it will be destined for the grill, at least not any time soon.

MW surveyor
04-20-2011, 12:41 PM
Man, you guys are kill'n me with choices and I haven't even shot the gun yet!

jlottmc
04-23-2011, 07:36 AM
Actually, I was thinking about the purple laminated stock and blued finish for her, I just have to get up with another FFL around here, as the one that I go to sometimes won't order anything (they say they'd end up with inventory if they did that). I'll get it soon, she likes purple, and my so did my recently passed Great-Grand-mother who is my little one's namesake, so that seems fitting. There are three companies that make them know, all under the same roof so to speak. There's Crickett, Rogue Rifle Company, and Chipmunk, the last two generally have walnut stocks more than anything else. I'll get it done in short order.

Bawanna
04-23-2011, 10:19 AM
I know Rogue bought Chipmunk. I think Cricket while very similar is a separate entity, perhaps not. Or maybe they weren't a few years ago and now they are. Would make sense I guess to be all together.

Willieboy
04-27-2011, 07:35 PM
Congratulation MW. That's a nice pistol. Will you be carrying that bad boy?

jeepster09
04-27-2011, 08:08 PM
jeepster - any problems with yours?

I actually looked at an LDA maybe 1 year ago but couldn't justify it at the time. Really liked the trigger and the pistol but you know how these things go.

Still can't justify a 1911 45 as it adds another caliber to my small stable ..... but, I'm not getting any younger and need to get one now!

Just hope that I don't put any idiot scraches on the stainless!


Trouble free!

MW surveyor
04-28-2011, 03:42 AM
Bill - Thanks. Most likely not. It's too hard to put it into my pocket and if you thought your K9 was heavy.

jeepster - good to hear. So far only 100 rounds through it with no problems.