Shield vs. PM9

[JFootin]

One guy in the Additional Info link had 4 M&Ps that all do it. It must be a characteristic of the M&P extractor design that is common in more than one model. Surely, S&W have seen this issue on the older models and have, so far, done nothing about a redesign. But if it were my carry gun, I would be asking them to take it back to the mothership and fix it.

[itsthelaw]

My PM9 will not do this...I tried immediately after viewing the video.

JimC is a good/honest man. I carry my 9c in a Remora and it happens a lot because of the drag of the Remora holster. When I draw from the Remora, it always goes back to battery. My 45c doesn't do it. On the 45c, you can push it back to the defined point, but it goes back to battery.

[Bill K]

Jim

You are a man after my own heart. That is why I dumped my Kahr CM9 and Beretta Nano. A CCW must be 100% out of the box. You or loved ones could die if your firearm decides to nose dive or FTE which both the above mentioned delivered. I could expect at least one nose dive per 50 with the Kahr and one FTE in 100 for the Nano.

My first range trip with my Shield I had become so conditioned to have failures I kept thinking I had one everytime the gun was empty and the slide was locked back. What a relief to see an empty magazine and for the first time in almost one year I drove home from the range happy because I had zero failures.

I could care less the Shield is bigger. I can pocket in 36x32 Dockers and I have complete confidence the gun will go bang. That confidence is worth the extra weight and size.

Russ

Russ,

The reliability & confidence issues you raise is why there are some civilian CC folks that will only carry revolvers. It is also perhaps a good argument for carrying two guns. Now you got me thinking again...

[Bill K]

Russ,

The reliability & confidence issues you raise is why there are some civilian CC folks that will only carry revolvers. It is also perhaps a good argument for carrying two guns. Now you got me thinking again...

Oh, crap! I said I was done with this thread. Now I really, really mean it!

[Popeye]

When I was at the range today I asked the owner if he had a shield. All he had was a blue plasic mock up of one. To me it looks much bigger than a PM9 and possibly a little bigger than a Walther PPS 9 which I love.I don't know why but it felt uncomfortably thin. I'll hold judgement off till I get to at least hold the real thing. It is bigger than I thought it was though.

[jocko]

JimC is a good/honest man. I carry my 9c in a Remora and it happens a lot because of the drag of the Remora holster. When I draw from the Remora, it always goes back to battery. My 45c doesn't do it. On the 45c, you can push it back to the defined point, but it goes back to battery.

I would think that is the way the gun is desinged to do also. I would just think in my little mind that the recoil springs o the Shield are weak by design so everyone can hand rack um with ease. I bet they never figured what is occurng now with um though. I would think if I am half right that a simple replacenet of a tad heavier recoil spring and the issue goes away. If people can learn to hand rack a kahr, Smith should have no issues increasing tghe recoil spring strength then. No gun that I havbe ever owned is as hard to hand rack as a kahr. It is what it is. NOt fault IMO just somethig that an ownber has to adapt to. took me awhile wity my P380 but today it is a no-brainer. I think I ckan find something in every gu made to ***** about, but that should not be the point either. Doesnt make the issue ur having go away eiter, so u either master it or peddle it Just sayin

[itsthelaw]

Engineering stackups can be a booger to deal with in anything, including handguns. Increase spring here, failure there, etc.

[WilliamG]

jocko, are you perpetually drunk? Just wonderin'. Your typing sometimes goes off the deep end! (I ask that question with a whole lotta love and respect for your knowledge/number of rounds you've put through your PM9! ).

Anyway, this Shield issue may or may not be a real issue. I'd be curious at the range if someone can put that gun into that not-quite-in-battery state and see if it fires when the trigger is pulled.

FYI, I've only ever had one "misfire" with my PM9. I was practicing with my Crimson Trace Grips, and help my PM9 down low, pretty near my chest. I got slammed in the chest with the slide, and it didn't allow the gun to go into battery correctly, so it just went "click," the next round.

BTW, a PM9 slide hurts when it hits you in the stomach! Ouch!

I agree with jocko, though. Those M&P recoil springs are so, so weak. One of the easiest guns I've ever racked (when I owned my M&P 9 Pro Series). Kahrs, on the other hand. My wife physically can't rack my PM9. I bet with a couple of # on the Shield's recoil spring strength this wouldn't happen, period.

[TeaQue]

When I was at the range today I asked the owner if he had a shield. All he had was a blue plasic mock up of one. To me it looks much bigger than a PM9 and possibly a little bigger than a Walther PPS 9 which I love.I don't know why but it felt uncomfortably thin. I'll hold judgement off till I get to at least hold the real thing. It is bigger than I thought it was though.

Its a little bigger than the PM9 and a little shorter than the PPS. Here are some pics I took next to my CM9 and my Dad's PPS.

I personally think it feels better in the hand than the PPS.

FS9, Kahr CM9, and my Dad's G36, Colt 1911, and Walther PPS.


Walther PPS, M&P9 Shield


Glock 36, M&P9 Shield


M&P9 (full-size), M&P9 Shield, Kahr CM9


Kahr CM9, M&P9 Shield





Kahr CM9, M&P9 Shield, M&P9 (full-size)


With the extended mags the size is similar however the M&P holds 8rds while the CM9 holds 7.

[QuercusMax]

So (yet another) new gun has come out, and lots of people need to get one right away so they have the latest thing.

I say ho-hum - the Shield might be very nice, and (gasp) it might even be better than one's favorite Kahr or Glock in some way, but is it absolutely necessary to get one immediately??? For one thing, nothing about the arrival of the Shield has changed any existing Kahr product as far as I know. If you liked your Kahr before, you'll still like it now; If you hated your Kahr before, the Shield won't change that either.

I know that some people always DO need the latest thing immediately or life as they know it will end, but if the Shield actually *is* a good product, S&W will be selling it for years to come and you can get one later. Or it might not be so good, and you will have dodged the proverbial bullet. Or ... something even better might come along, and you can get that instead.

I'm glad to see the Solo, the Nano, and the Shield come out, because variety is great, even if confusing. (I haven't bought any of them so far.)

I wouldn't mind seeing the Shield deflate Glock's tires a little bit though.