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Thread: CW45 (and other poly Kahr pistols): issues and fixes

  1. #71
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    Sep 2010
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    Default CW45 no trigger reset when frame is warm.

    From round number 1 every time I fired a round the trigger would never reset and I mean every round of the 100 I shot today. I had to pull the trigger back with the end of my finger and let go so the trigger would spring forward and it would reset every time. letting the trigger forward like normal after firing a round would not reset the trigger.

    So I remove the slide and everything looks normal. no excessive dirt or anything. When dry firing at the range I could pull the trigger, rack the slide, let it go like normal and the trigger would not reset. I had to let it spring forward. I finished the 100 rounds to see if anything else was going to occur but nothing did so I head to the house with my no reset issue.

    On arriving home I get to the work bench and proceed to check things out. The trigger works perfectly. I'm like what the heck??? So I start thinking what could it be???

    I get out the spray cleaner and spray around the trigger bar and trigger to make sure that the area is clean. The trigger gets rough and sticky. I put one drop at the trigger and at trigger bar and it operates like normal.

    I put the slide back on and everything operated normally then it dawned on me that the gun was warm from sitting in the sun before I fired it at the range. So I set it in the sun outside the garage door to warm up. When warm it failed to reset every time. IT WAS MADE FOR ALASKA!

    Here's what's happening. The trigger is pulled and the slide goes back, pushing down on the tab on top of the trigger bar. Then the trigger is released but when the gun is warm you can see the trigger bar is binding on something just enough to keep it from moving back up into the bottom of the slide and resetting the trigger. I could duplicate this every time. That is why letting the trigger spring forward would shock it just enough to go into place.

    I checked behind the panel on the side and there was no garbage there but It was a little rough on the back. The trigger bar spring seems strong and tight enough to do the job. I ran out of sunlight (heat) and time before I could try it without the panel on. I guess i'll do that tomorrow. I was a bit hacked at first but I guess if they test fired this in the factory in air conditioning everything would have worked fine. I'm afraid if I send it back they'll try it at 72 degrees and it will work.

    Recoil on the 45 was very manageable now if i can just get it reset at normal southeast summer outside temperatures (100 degrees) hopefully it will be good.

    Update and problem possibly solved. Got up this morning and started first thing. Here is the series of events. I also used my CM9 for a reference of a correctly working gun.

    First AM at room temp everything worked right with gun assembled. Trigger reset OK

    Not enough heat outside to warm the gun so I pulled out the gun heater (wife's hair dryer) and warmed frame slightly. Trigger reset problem happened again right away.

    Removed side panel and warmed the assembled gun. Trigger reset problem still occurred so it's not the side panel.

    Checked frame for roughness and visible parts of trigger bar for burrs and found nothing.

    Removed slide and checked cutout on the right side of slide for issues. No problem found.

    I noticed that the problem was more obvious when slide was on and gun c0cked. Ahh, there was a clue. It seems that the c0cking cam must move some un-obvious amount more when c0cked than when not that way.

    Started looking at the c0cking cam and trigger bar to find the binding and found that was where the problem appeared to be. It was like there was a burr or something either on the c0cking cam or the trigger bar where they meet for firing and resetting.

    Couldn't see anything with the gun assembled so you guessed it. Out comes the trigger to get at the trigger bar. When I got the trigger bar out I could see that on the trigger bar where it meets the c0cking cam there was a sharp knife like edge. That was what was grabbing I was sure. Smoothed that front edge and another rough spot on the side of the trigger bar that could have been rubbing in the frame.

    Put the frame back together (with side panel still off) and even dry w/ no oil or grease the trigger was smoother. Put the slide back on the frame and then warmed up the gun again. The reset seems to be working better. C0cked the gun and pulled the trigger just a tad and pushed the reset down to let the trigger bar tab and c0cking cam wear on each other a bit quite a few times to smooth it out further. Appears to be working better. The reset is much more pronounced like on my CM9 and my previous CW9.

    Since I couldn't get to see Greg in AZ and heat stress test it there. I simulated outside summer conditions here and heated the gun to an uncomfortable handling temp to test it with the wife's hair dryer. Everything seems to be working now. Couldn't get to the range today but it wasn't as hot anyway. We are expecting a 97 degree day here later this week so I'll try and head to the range then to lay it in the sun and shoot it. I may be good to go. We'll see.

    Summary. Tolerances are TIGHT in this gun. Not like my full size 1911 or 92FS. The frame and/or slide slightly warming was changing tolerances enough to malfunction. This would not happen at 75-80 degrees. Also there is not much polish room with the long trigger pull and long reset.

    If you are of the faint of heart I don't recommend the trigger part to just anyone. I didn't think it was too bad but I have gotten myself in such a big enough mess before that this was relatively minor. I didn't even swear or anything.
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  2. #72
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    Excessive front end play when the slide is in "battery"/forward (also: slide stop works it's way out):
    Perhaps this should be called a "short rails" issue
    Info here:
    http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...0&page=1&pp=10

    Quote Originally Posted by marcinstl View Post
    .... holding an empty CW45 in one hand, grab the slide in the front using finger and thumb. try to lift the slide up. try to wiggle the slide up and down. mine moves about 1/16th of an inch. is this normal? ...
    ..then this:
    Quote Originally Posted by tony k View Post
    ...
    I finally figured out that the slide sticks out farther than the front metal guide rails. In other words the front of the slide is completley unsupported untll it travels back far enough to begin traveling on the rails. Is yours like this Marc?

    I have somewhere between 750 and 1000 rounds through mine. What concerns me is that the right front rail is developing a burr, and there is a spot of wear on the slide where said right front rail is making contact. Others have mentioned that their slides are difficult to rack. I wonder if our metal rails are just about .01" too short.

    I plan to contact Kahr tomorrow about a different issue (slide stop mag catch still hitting bullets and causing jams even after modification/ replacement of slide stop, as well as frequent light primer strikes). I will mention this as well.

    Also, I will post some pictures of the burr on the front rail and associated wear on the slide when I get access to a faster connection.

    Oh, and by the way... I'm not talking about anything to do with the plastic "rails" or the proof mark on the left hand rail, or "bowed or bent" rails. I know it's common for newer Kahr owners such as myself to see those and think there is a problem. I've read most of the forum stickys and know the basics.

    Anyway Marc, mine is the same with regard to the amount of play at the front of the slide, and I know what is causing it in mine. Maybe yours is the same. I'm calling Kahr tomorrow to find out if it's an issue.
    ..then in another thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by AFDoc View Post
    Don't think this is right. Slide stop can be removed without lining up take down marks and works its way out while shooting. The slide also has lots of up and down play at the muzzle end, as others have also noted. Will be on its way back to Kahr on Tuesday.

    http://youtu.be/i9Xvbna55Kc
    What I found in my pistol:
    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    ...
    My pistol's issue is more in keeping with what tony k wrote in post #3; "the slide sticks out farther than the front metal guide rails. In other words the front of the slide is completley unsupported untll it travels back far enough to begin traveling on the rails."
    It's not about the width of the grooves in the slide as compared to the rails in the dust cover. What I'm seeing is that when the slide is completely forward/in battery, the grooves are ahead of the end of the frame rails.
    I think a properly made poly Kahr (or least it's how my CW9 is made) would have a slide and front rails interface something similar to that in this photo:

    My CW45 has this instead:

    In this condition, the front of the slide is being held in alignment by the poly rails on top of the frame. If I apply a small amount of pressure to the dust cover at this point, it's not possible to retract the slide. I'll grant that the chances of an sort of similar pressure happening during the actually operation of the pistol is remote, but I also find it conceivable that conditions of heat or cold might possibly cause the frame to move out of alignment enough to produce similar results.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbM9ADBIQcc
    Regards,
    Greg
    An easy check to verify the "short rails" issue:
    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    ... I've found it's much easier to check for the issue by pinching the slide and dust cover together. Then while holding them together, see if you can move the slide rearward. I couldn't do so on my older serial number CW45 or the one I checked in the store. Post repair: I can easily move the slide with no hint of it stopping or even catching on anything.

    Checks good

    ...
    *Kahr has been replacing frames to fix this issue (kudos to them).

    Mine has been without issue since it's return and I've read of similar results from other posters.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    Reinstalling the slide:
    My CW45 has always required a slight manipulation of the trigger during reassembly.
    The rear of the slide first encounters a slight resistance, then passes over the cocking cam; at this point, the slide's position is quite similar to that in the OP's photo and cannot be moved any further rearward. Pressing the trigger lightly at this point allows the slide to continue backward a slight amount and the slide stop can be installed. I believe the slide is catching on the trigger bar and the slight movement of the trigger frees it up for the remainder of the required distance. The gun operates fine when fully assembled.
    Video of the sequence required on my pistol:
    YouTube - cw45.WMV
    Regards,
    Greg
    Read the above post and watched the video. If only it were so simple with my unfired and Froglubed PM9.

    It is difficult to get the slide back to insert the pin about half-way into the left round hole for the slide stop. Partially depressing the trigger does not work as in the video. Sometimes I am able to get it back using the force of my palm, other times not.

    Removed the recoil spring and guide rod because I happened to notice what appeared to be a visible portion of the spring sticking out a bit where the guide rod displays below the muzzle. The open coil of that spring was situated at the 12 o'clock position upside down in the guide role hole, which is my custom.

    I tried changing the open end to situate in the upside down slide at the 6 o'clock position and did not thereafter have this problem. I will see how this works at other positions.

    Can't say this definitively was related but it seemed to solve the problem.

    I've found the slide actually has to go a bit beyond flush (about 1/4- 1/2") with the frame in order to situate its round pin halfway into the kidney hole of the locking lug at the 4:00 position. Then I insert the right side of the stop at the 3:00 position in the half-moon and it snaps closed.

    This is kind of strange, but it function checks fine.

    Comments?

    Later: Positioned the open coil at the 3:00 position in guide rod canopy and it worked okay. Beginning to think that the guide rod and spring were not aligned properly in the slide that caused the problem. Whatever...just a bit frustrating assembling the slide to the frame in sense of getting the slide back far enough.
    Last edited by kahrinca; 08-14-2015 at 02:30 AM.

  4. #74
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    Trying to add an index to this thread, so I had to move this post. Sorry for any inconvenience

    Night sights:

    I installed the night sights on my CW45 and I'm very pleased with them.
    Some thoughts:
    - The sights are well made. I would prefer Meprolight sights and their sealed capsules, but oh well.
    - The stock front sight snaps off (per instructions) very easily.
    Here (verbatim) are the instructions for removing the front sight:
    "Removal of the Existing Front Sight
    1. Using a small set of vise grips, being careful not to make contact with the slide, grip the front sight and pull to remove the upper half.
    2. Using a pick or very small Phillips head screw driver push the remaining portion of the polymer posts out of the slide from the top of the slide. Be careful not scratch the top of the slide.
    3. Turn the slide over and ensure there is no remaining polymer in the front sight holes of the slide. If there is, gently remove it using the pick or small Phillips head screwdriver."
    *Member SleepyMike reports that his sight came with a TORX head screw that requires a TORX T-5 driver (another member, 07Dually, reports a T5.5 works best) to install.
    I used masking tape to cover the slide around the front sight blade. I put the vise grips on the front sight blade with the jaws standing off from the top of the slide and pulled the sight off with a slight rocking motion. The posts and sight body separated quite easily. The posts and residue (the posts are melted to stake the sight on) were also removed with little effort.
    - The new front sight has two posts; one is threaded. The sight is attached with a Phillips head or T5 (or possibly T5.5) Torx head screw and red Loctite.
    (see more detailed installation info in post #27 http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=54961&postcount=27)

    - The stock rear sight was very hard to remove. I actually damaged my sight pusher and finished the removal with a large brass punch and hammer (sight appears undamaged).
    - The rear night sight needed a slight amount of material removed for easier installation; after that, installation was easy with the undamaged side of my sight pusher.
    - I really like the sight picture.

    - I think the front night sight should be offered by itself as it is definitely an upgrade over the stock item (it really did snap off easily). In retrospect, I would have been happy with that and have an undamaged sight pusher. I also think that a "front sight only upgrade" would be a very "doable" DIY project for most owners.
    UPDATE:
    I was able to purchase the Trijicon front sight by itself after contacting a Kahr sale representative: also, Dawson Precision now offers front sights for Kahr CW series pistols: www.dawsonprecision.com SIGHTS FRONT:Kahr Front Sights Category
    See the Dawson night sight installed here: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=59903#post59903


    BTW: I've been very pleased these sights. Here's three magazines worth of 230gr. hardball, fired at 10 (2 ea.) and 25 yards, two handed standing:
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  5. #75
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    P45 trigger bar sticking: Problems with " failure to feed, failure to eject and failure to go fully into battery, not to mention no trigger reset."

    As posted by dorangolv in this thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?21904-P45-trigger-bar-sticking-fix
    Quote Originally Posted by dorangolv View Post
    Hey! I think I figured out the (Biggest) problem with my P45. I took several close up shots to illustrate it. As yet I have not seen any threads dedicated to this particular fix. At the right rear corner where the slide presses down the trigger bar during cycling, I found mine was not being pressed down but instead was getting smashed between the slide rail and the polymer frame rail.


    This caused a great deal more friction and resulted in failure to feed, failure to eject and failure to go fully into battery, not to mention no trigger reset.
    Why does it do that? When the trigger is pulled, the Trigger Bar (TB) slides forward. As it moves forward, it tilts inward toward the frame rail due to the torque applied from the trigger pulling and the cam resisting the pull.

    In the first of three pictures you can see TB at the rear tilted slightly out, 0% trigger pull.
    http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...r0released.jpg

    Second picture; 50% Trigger pull, TB in middle and tilting inward as indicated by the shadow. At this point, the TB is most susceptible getting wedged between the slide rail and the frame rail.


    Third picture; Trigger at 100% pulled all the way back, TB forward and tilted back out away from frame slightly.
    http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...rpulled100.jpg

    In this picture you can even tell the top portion of the tab has been ground away and is thinner at the top.


    Here the slide rail has been worn uneven and is thinner at the end of the rail. Compare the two rail ends on the right and left. The rounded corner I did as part of the fix. But the width of the two is different.



    The fix? I removed the side panel and grabbed the top of the trigger bar with pliers. I pried the top most tab of the trigger bar outwards, away from the frame rail. I had to reassemble, test and repeat several times before it was moved out away from the polymer rails and properly pushed down into the frame by the passing slide.





    Suddenly the slide racks so much smoother and easier without binding up like before.
    http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...ingpressed.jpg
    http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/...notpressed.jpg


    .....
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  6. #76
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    Jamming: failure to feed, slide hard to rack if trigger held back as posted by AFDoc http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...CW45-questions

    Quote Originally Posted by AFDoc View Post
    So as you all know I've had a jamming problem when the second round tries to feed (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21135). I took it out again today and it's not improved after two trips to Kahr. Almost 500 factory new rounds through it so far. After cleaning it today I noticed something: the slide is much harder to rack after dry firing if I hold the trigger. If I let go if the trigger, it then racks easily. I checked out my PM9 and it doesn't matter if I'm holding the trigger all the way back or not, the slide racks easily.

    So my question is for those with CW45's; Is the slide harder to rack when you hold the trigger back after dry firing?
    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AFDoc View Post
    So as you all know I've had a jamming problem when the second round tries to feed (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21135). I took it out again today and it's not improved after two trips to Kahr. Almost 500 factory new rounds through it so far. After cleaning it today I noticed something: the slide is much harder to rack after dry firing if I hold the trigger. If I let go if the trigger, it then racks easily. I checked out my PM9 and it doesn't matter if I'm holding the trigger all the way back or not, the slide racks easily.

    So my question is for those with CW45's; Is the slide harder to rack when you hold the trigger back after dry firing?
    Mine was. Here's my thoughts on this and what I did.
    When you hold the trigger back after pulling it to release the striker, the trigger bar stays in contact with the cocking cam. The lobe on the cocking cam slightly overlaps the trigger bar at this point. Racking the slide, while maintaining this condition, forces the trigger bar down which further rotates the cocking cam. What I found was that the lobe on the cocking cam that raises the striker block was pinned against the bottom of the slide directly to the rear of the slide block. My first thought was that this makes it difficult for the cam to rotate enough for the the trigger bar to clear it (which also makes the trigger bar harder to push down, making the slide harder to rack). I checked for and cleaned up a burr around the lip of the hole that the striker block sits in. This helped some, but was not a dramatic improvement. I then thought to look at the striker block (as the lobe also rotated against it), so I replaced it with another I had on hand. This dramatically improved how easily the slide racked: effort was now about the same as when done with the trigger released (trigger bar is not in contact with the cam in that condition).
    My conclusion (FWIW): the shape/size of the striker block lobe on the cocking cam. the size/shape of the striker block, or the slide could all be contributing factors if this condition exists on your pistol. As the striker block was the remedy on my CW45, I would suggest swapping it out for another (the PM9's should work) to see if this would give similar results. The other components would be better addressed by Kahr or a gunsmith.



    Regards,
    Greg
    Quote Originally Posted by AFDoc View Post
    I had to read it a couple of times and then compare, again, the PM9 (which functions perfectly) and the CW45. I can see now where the cocking cam comes considerably higher (and above the top of the frame) when the trigger is pulled on the 45 versus the 9; I also note that the back end of the trigger bar goes down more on the 9 when the trigger is pulled. The CW45 is pictured first:
    http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.p...1&d=1388010493
    http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.p...1&d=1388010507
    Follow up: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...origin-Round-3
    Last edited by gb6491; 11-12-2015 at 02:42 PM.
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  7. #77
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    Failure to return to battery, failure to feed, slide stuck:

    From thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...s-ammo-finicky!
    I think this thread would be applicable as well: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...y-to-return-it

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangemeister View Post
    Been out of the loop for awhile and just got my hands on a PM45 that is having some weird ammo issues. I have almost 200 rds of various rounds down range that includes WWB 185 and Federal American 185 JHP. No issues at all. I went to get some self defense ammo and could not find exactly what I was looking for so tried some Hornady 185 Critical defense. I loaded up the gun and before going to the range, I tried to hand cycle the stuff and the round would not extract! I had to find a good solid door casing and forced the slide to the rear. The same thing happened when I tried using some Triple K snap caps. I took several measurements and the diameter of the Federals and WWB was .460 near the bullet while the triple K snaps and Hornadys measured at .470. I did not realize the chamber of this PM45 was so finicky about .010 of an inch? Anyone have a similar experience and will the Hornady's extract under range conditions? I got a box of Federal 165 Hydro Schox and they cycle perfect and are by the way .460. The gun is new. Thanks for your input! PS- The PM45 has very manageable recoil using 185gr and a set of Talon grips!
    I've had it happen with Hornady 230gr. XTP in my CW45. Here are my thoughts on it (taken from this thread: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...t-at-the-range ):
    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blackbird94 View Post
    Had the CW45 at the range today, along with a bunch of other stuff. Pulled the CW out to try the new Fiocchi XTP defense ammo I just bought. Magazine, rack it, doesn't go to battery. drop the mag, rack it. That round ejects, next one jams, solid. not into battery, slide will not move. Can't rack it, can't tap it into battery. I'm stuck with an inoperable pistol with a hot round almost into the chamber. Ended the range day. put it in a padded case. Locked it into the trunk. A quick 10 minute run to the gun shop/gunsmith. 5 minutes and $25 later, all is good again. Turns out, the cone on this round is too steep to go up the ramp. Shop said it's fairly common with this short a barrel pistol. It's a Horrandy XTP bullet in a Fiocchi case. Yes factory new rounds. Off tomorrow to see if the shop where I bought them will let me swap for core bon or golden saber. Oh yeah, actually dented the tip of the hollow point.
    "Turns out, the cone on this round is too steep to go up the ramp. Shop said it's fairly common with this short a barrel pistol."
    I doubt that's the case. From what you wrote earlier, "next one jams, solid. not into battery, slide will not move. Can't rack it, can't tap it into battery. I'm stuck with an inoperable pistol with a hot round almost into the chamber.", I'd guess that the XTP has engaged the barrel's rifling preventing the round from going into battery and also making it difficult to extract.

    This can happen because of the round's overall length or because of the bullet's shape. We see this some in Kahr CW45s. IMO this is because they have a short amount of free bore/leade cut into the barrel. Here's a drawing to illustrate:

    The top barrel has a short amount of free bore/leade in front of the chamber. I think it's pretty easy to see how some rounds might have a length or bullet that could contact the barrel's rifling when chambered.

    As a quick test, remove the barrel and lightly drop a round into the chamber. The round should seat with the back of the case flush with or very slightly below the rear of the barrel hood: (image originally posted by John boy on SASS.net)

    My guess is that your ammo will be slightly protruding (as in the far right above; the photo illustrates correct head spacing, but applies here).
    If this is the case, I think you have about three options:
    1. switch to an ammo that seats flush when you drop it into the chamber and operates correctly in your pistol.
    2. Return it to Kahr for repair.
    3. Have a local gunsmith ream the barrel to increase the "free bore".

    I guess there's also a chance that your chamber is tight. If you can wiggle the round a little when it's in the chamber then I doubt this is an issue.

    Abraxxas posted some excellent photos when he had a similar problem. In his case the free bore/leade was not cut evenly; you can see where he has adequate free bore/leade in the second photo and insufficient in the third:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxxas View Post
    I've read numerous posts online about Kahr's being picky about what ammo they will chamber and wont due to their tight chambers. I want to share what I found with mine tonight after I locked it up tight today on it's first trip to the range while attempting to chamber one of my target loads after 100rds of Remington factory ball ammo.

    I pulled the barrel out for cleaning tonight and attempted to chamber some various ammo by dropping them in while holding the barrel. I found some dropped right in while others stopped short of fully chambering. This is easier than trying to pry my action open like I had to do at the range today I found that hollow points with a pronounced shoulder on them like Hornady XTP's and the Nosler Custom Competition 185's that I love to load so much for my other 45's were what caused the problem.

    I took one that wouldnt chamber and dropped it in until it stopped and then grabbed the base of the shell with my fingers and twisted it back and forth about 90 deg while light pressing forward and pulled it out. The barrel is steel, the bullet jacket and shell case are soft metals so I knew the barrel/chamber should leave marks on the cartridge where it is hanging up. It was on the shoulder of the bullet as pictured below. On the left is a Nosler 185 handload and on the right is a Federal HydraShok. The Hydrashok drops right in, the Nosler does not... notice the difference in profiles close to the case mouth. The Hydrashok has a profile very similar to ball ammo until the top, so it chambers.



    Because the marks from me twisting the cartridge in the chamber are on the bullet and not the casing, I started to look at the barrel and not the chamber. The chamber is no tighter than than my other 45's just by feeling the amount of freeplay with a cartdridge fully chambered. Pictured below is the lead-in to the rifling in my barrel.



    It is a steeper angle than my other 45's, but not that much different... why is it touching the bullet before the cartridge is fully chambered I wondered? As Im staring at it scratching my head I noticed that the lead-in is not uniform. Pictured above is the left side of my barrel, pictured below is the right side of my barrel. Notice the difference in the angle of the bevel on the beginning of the rifling.



    THIS is why it will not chamber the bullets with a more pronounced shoulder profile. Is this considered defective? Normal? I dont know, this is my first Kahr. Perhaps some of you could take a look and see if your picky eater looks like this? I could get around this by changing the bullet seating depth of my target loads to work with this gun so Im not terribly concerned about it myself at this point. I did however want to share my findings because I've read a fair amount about folks having picky eaters that wont chamber certain types of ammo. Many of the threads on various forums/reviews seem to have the XTP style bullet causing the problems.

    Brian
    FWIW, my CW45 had this issue with Hornady 230gr. XTP. It happened with less frequency and became easier to clear as I put more rounds through the pistol, but I eventually bought a reamer and cut more free bore/leade into the barrel. Issue fixed.



    Regards,
    Greg
    BTW, gun papa posted a neat, easy to make tool for clearing this type of jam at the end of the thread I linked above.
    Regards,
    Greg
    Last edited by gb6491; 10-13-2017 at 09:04 PM.
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  8. #78
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    Failure to chamber or RTB, possible extractor issue:
    While these fixes were posted for models other than the 45 Kahrs, I'd not discount them.
    This one could be tried without modifying a Kahr part by just making a new pin...say from a drill bit shank:
    Quote Originally Posted by Laneman View Post
    I just bought my wife a CW9 and had issues with the slide hanging up the last 1/4 inch or so. After much research here on the forum I found a post about shortening the rear extractor pin by .045". The person had great success with his CW9 afterwards, so I just did it on her CW9. Walked out back and tested it just now and wow, what a difference. I can slowly close the slide the last 1/4 and it won't hang up. I shot it at first with a good two hand grip, no hang-ups. Then I gave it the torture test with worse and worse limp wrist shooting, till finally I was holding it loose in one hand. It would not hang up no matter what. My rear extractor pin measured .455" from the factory, I shortened it to .410" then smoothed out the edge burrs.

    Hope this helps someone, and many thanks to the forum.
    http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...ed-slide-issue

    Quote Originally Posted by tigman250 View Post
    Bought a CW 380 in December, I shot 200 rounds through it in the first couple outings, 100 rounds of Remington and 100 of Fiocchi. The Fiocchi was terrible, it fell short of battery about 90% of the time, the Remington ran "better" but still failed at least 30% of the time. The problem seemed to be the extractor, when the round was at an angle going into the chamber it was binding on the hook of the extractor, the Fiocchi rims were .015" thicker than the Remingtons and both were gouged from the extractor. Originally I tried simply deburring and softening the sharp corners on the extractor, this defiantly helped but failure to return to battery was still a huge problem. I wanted to try adding a little more clearance between the breech face and extractor hook but the extractor was already pretty minimal so I didn't want to machine anything off the hook, and removing material from the breech face is not an option, after some thought (and buying a spare extractor!) I decided to remove some material off of the front of the pin located at the rear of the extractor which would allow the extractor to move forward. I removed about .015" of material and I am happy to report that after 100 rounds (50 Fiocchi and 50 Remingtons) I had zero, thats right ZERO FTF and failure to return to battery! Just a lack of clearance, the gap between the extractor hook and breech face was too tight to allow the shell to tip in as it was stripped from the mag on it's way into the chamber. I still need a full range trip with a couple hundred rounds to be sure but going from such a high failure rate to zero I'm pretty sure I can call this thing fixed.
    http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?26232-Found-solution-to-FTF-and-failure-to-return-to-battery-on-CW-380

    Here's the spot where tigman250 removed material from:
    [<a href=http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif target=_blank>http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif</a>

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
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    Grip too rough:
    Bicycle inner tubes can help with that:
    rkammer's photo
    More info about this and other solutions in this thread:

    http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...-tube-for-grip
    [<a href=http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif target=_blank>http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif</a>

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
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    Magazine prematurely dropping out of the pistol (next to last round):
    (if your gun is doing it on random round counts, you might want to see reply number 42 for jhertzler's fix )

    I’m not the only one who has had this issue; here is my reply on another forum:
    The magazine self-eject usually happens on the next-to-last round.
    My pistol did this and a new latch fixed it.
    A few words about the new latch: I called Kahr and explained my problem;the tech I spoke to immediately said he would send me a new latch. The latch arrived quickly (kudos to Kahr), A quick inspection showed that the new latch is similar to the old one, but the shelf on it had been machined at a slight angle and increased area:

    *Note about latch spring installation at bottom of this post.


    Now, that is all well and good, but I’m began to wonder why the original latch always dropped the magazine with two rounds in the magazine and not some random sequence.

    Here’s my conclusion:
    There is some side to side play of the magazine when it’s in the magazine well. With the top end removed and a magazine (sans follower and spring) in the well, if you twist the magazine base back and forth, you will see that the magazine latch stays engaged in the magazine, but that depth of engagement varies from just enough to quite a bit inside the magazine body. The latch itself does not move during this evolution. Now, my first thought was that the bullet noses were somehow disengaging the latch if the magazine twisted when there was minimal amount of latch engaged. Inserting a loaded magazine into the well, I twisted it back and forth trying to disengage the latch; no luck perhaps recoil forces are more violent and could do it. Then I tried stripping rounds out of the magazine to see if that bumped the latch out of place, no joy or movement until…the follower came up in the magazine latch cutout window.
    Here, I noticed that the magazine latch moved; twisting the magazine at this point caused the magazine latch to move quite a bit, but not enough to disengage the latch. However, the most movement of the latch occurs at this point and this point happens to be at the magical two rounds left in the magazine mark.

    So what gives? I believe that when the follower is at this position, during recoil the magazine twists, pushing the latch out of the frame and then twists the other way faster than the latch can sometimes react. The magazine’s spring tension and forces from the slide working over it (possibly causing it to twist as well) push it down and out of engagement while the latch is playing catch up. Note: Add to the proceeding that it might be possible that the slide is hitting the magazine, which could possibly push it out of the latch's grasp. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EBWZvFBeUY). I believe this is why the modified latch works: the magazine would have to move slightly upward to disengage from the latch making it a little more difficult to shake loose from or possibly limiting how far the latch is pushed out from the frame. A stronger magazine latch spring would probably work as well and I believe that pistols that do drop magazines probably have a less than optimal spring (for the OP: replacing your current spring might be a good idea) vice a bad latch (though the machined latch makes up for this as a repair). Still, I worried that the problem could return (big trust factor issue) and turned my attention to the magazine follower. I believe that the magazine follower would benefit if it was redesigned in a manner that would significantly reduce the chance of a marginal latch, latch spring, or both allowing a magazine to drop. The follower simply needs to be made so that it does not contact the latch at anytime. To prove this to myself, I marked the area of the follower that appeared in the latch window, then reshaped the upper portion of the follower and cut off a portion of the skirt. Now, the follower does not contact the latch at any point. I can twist the magazine to Hades and back while the latch stays in place (no movement at all). The original magazine release now works as intended (no more drops) and the magazine (in regards to this) also functions flawlessly.
    Magazine latch window (OEM follower on the left, modified on the right):


    Left, OEM follower (notice areas contacted by the magazine latch) 2nd from left, Modified follower.
    UPDATE!!! - I now prefer to grind/sand/file the follower skirt for clearance vice cutting it (see right two photos). The upper part of the follower still needs to be reshaped for clearance as shown in the photo of the modified follower.

    *If you are doing this mod to eliminate nose dives, you may not need to remove as much material as shown here. Try removing just enough material to allow the follower to pass the magazine latch without issue. You can usually see where the latch is being scrapped by the follower. (see this photo: http://i51.tinypic.com/2zf0qxk.jpg )

    Disclaimer: I imagine there are quite a few (most?) CW45s out there that do not have this issue. I further believe that the modified latch and a new/stronger latch spring would fix/prevent the issue. Regardless of this (and for my own peace of mind) I'm going to run the modified magazines in my gun.

    *Latch spring installation:
    The spring is a press fit into the polymer, the magazine latch/catch (when installed) prevents it from working out of place.
    To remove the latch, use some type of tool (I made one from a coat hanger) to push the latch spring over and out of its slot in the latch. (Alternately: push the latch in and hold the spring over while pulling the latch back; lift/pry/ the end of the spring out when the latch clears it).
    With the spring end out, the latch can be pushed out of the frame.
    To remove the spring: just pull it straight up until it comes free.
    Compare the new spring with the old, some new ones have been reported oversize and may need fitting.
    Looking down into the mag well, you will see a wedge shaped cavity in the front strap (just below the magazine catch). There is a hole into the polymer at the bottom (small end) of the wedge. Hold the spring with needle nose pliers or a hemostat, then insert the spring into that hole; use enough pressure to get it started. Release the spring, it should lay pretty flat and parallel to the front strap; put a pin punch on the visible end of the spring and push it completely into place. Look through the magazine catch round hole, the spring end should be about quarter height up in the hole (see photo below).
    To install the catch, start the catch slightly, pry and hold the spring away from the front strap, push the latch into position, release the spring and slide the end of it into the cutout in the magazine catch/latch body.
    Done.




    to be continued...
    [<a href=http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif target=_blank>http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif</a>

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