Fast and Furious

[muggsy]

You just can't trust that lyin' NRA.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=7198

[TheTman]

Nope, they're always up to something sneaky. Wish they'd sneak Holder across the border and let the thugs have at him with some of the weapons he let walk! That ******** wouldn't even apologise to the family of the officer that got killed by one of those guns. Can anyone name a worse attorney general than him? Well Janet Napoleantino gave him a good run for the money I guess.

[TheTman]

Oh hell, now I spose masked men gonna invade my home and take me off to jail with no lawyer or anything cause I suppose I made a terrorist threat.

[apheod]

You just can't trust that lyin' NRA.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=7198

i thought you were the guy who thought everything was hunky dory and the good old united states government will look after your best interests?

[muggsy]

i thought you were the guy who thought everything was hunky dory and the good old united states government will look after your best interests?

Somehow, Apheod, you manage to get everything that I say wrong. I didn't say that everything was hunky dory in the USA. What I said was that everything that is wrong in the USA can be corrected with the next election. I believe that it was you who said that the accusation that the Obama Administration was using Fast and Furious as an excuse for more gun control measures was a political fabrication of the GOP. Well, Apheod, the memos don't lie.

[muggsy]

Oh hell, now I spose masked men gonna invade my home and take me off to jail with no lawyer or anything cause I suppose I made a terrorist threat.

Don't worry, thetmanski, Apheod and the ACLU will protect you. :)

[rjt123]

I believe that it was you who said that the accusation that the Obama Administration was using Fast and Furious as an excuse for more gun control measures was a political fabrication of the GOP. Well, Apheod, the memos don't lie.


I thought that was Markis, not Apheod...although he may or may not have agreed with him.

[sas PM9]

You just can't trust that lyin' NRA.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=7198

B:

Yep, the CBS report sure seems to support what the NRA has been saying all along.

Holder must GO!

-steve

[JFootin]

Can anyone name a worse attorney general than him?

Janet Reno is in that horse pace, too.

[jeepster09]

Janet Reno is in that horse pace, too.


I think she actually may be a horse :eek:

[apheod]

that was definitely not me who said that, and i do not agree with that. pretty much all of our politicians are crooked as far as i'm concerned. i'm really surprised after seeing my views in the other thread, you would suggest i would tell someone the ACLU is going to protect them from the gestapo kicking their door in and dragging them to a FEMA concentration camp.

as far as thinking all of this countries problems can be corrected next election... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

sorry. even though ron paul is my man (and he's not really even a republican, he just had to pick a side since it's a two party system and you HAVE TO be one or the other to have any shot at winning the presidency) even him getting elected would not solve this countries problems. he'd still be working against an entirely corrupt system. congress and the senate are 90% bought and paid for by big business and big banks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_9zH9Q44o&feature=related

[muggsy]

Now Apheod, I didn't say that the country's problems would be solved with the next election, but rather that they could be solved with the next election. I stand by that statement. Of course if enough people like you vote for people like Ron Paul the country doesn't have a chance. I'll accept your word that it wasn't you who said that Fast and Furious was a political ploy of the GOP, but someone said it and you seemed to be siding with him. Nothing that Bush did during his presidency was illegal or unconstitutional. If it had been, he would have been impeached.

[apheod]

Now Apheod, I didn't say that the country's problems would be solved with the next election, but rather that they could be solved with the next election. I stand by that statement. Of course if enough people like you vote for people like Ron Paul the country doesn't have a chance. I'll accept your word that it wasn't you who said that Fast and Furious was a political ploy of the GOP, but someone said it and you seemed to be siding with him. Nothing that Bush did during his presidency was illegal or unconstitutional. If it had been, he would have been impeached.

ridiculous. the entire post, every sentence, utterly ridiculous. i shouldn't need to make a list here of george bush's illegal and unconstitutional activities, because they're common knowledge. what fantasy world are you living in?

as far as ron paul, there are areas where i don't agree with him, foreign policy namely (to some extent) but who else is there? gary johnson would be the only other one i'd consider, but he hasn't been getting much traction. the rest of the GOP candidates? scumbags. typical run of the mill politicians.

TBH, it's the first election i've seen in my lifetime where there were actually people running who i would vote FOR rather than just voting against the bigger crook.

[crazymailman]

I think she actually may be a horse :eek:

At least part of one, the rear part that is.

[muggsy]

ridiculous. the entire post, every sentence, utterly ridiculous. i shouldn't need to make a list here of george bush's illegal and unconstitutional activities, because they're common knowledge. what fantasy world are you living in?

as far as ron paul, there are areas where i don't agree with him, foreign policy namely (to some extent) but who else is there? gary johnson would be the only other one i'd consider, but he hasn't been getting much traction. the rest of the GOP candidates? scumbags. typical run of the mill politicians.

TBH, it's the first election i've seen in my lifetime where there were actually people running who i would vote FOR rather than just voting against the bigger crook.

What's wrong with Santorum or Bachman. Both are rock solid conservatives. If you don't vote for a republican you're going to get another four years of Obama. That will kill our country. Hold your nose and pull the lever.

[tv_racin_fan]

I'm not voting for a big govt republican sir. You are free to do as you wish but so long as the people keep on voting in those big and bigger govt politicians in then one should not expect a different result.

[getsome]

Unfortunately this race has come down to voting against the current imposter in office rather than voting for someone you trust and want to see in office....

As in the 2008 election and being a voting Republican I kept asking myself, is this the best candidates the GOP can come up with? I totally respected John McCains war record but up against a spit polished reader/speaker like Obummer, McCain didn't stand a chance so look what we got now...

I have listened to Ron Paul and I really like what the man has to say but there is no way he can get elected and any vote for him might as well be one for Barry O so I think even though I'm not crazy about either Newt or Mitt being elected because they are just more of the same big money bought and paid for professional politicians I have to support who ever the GOP nominee will be...

This country can't survive 4 more years of Obama and if he does win the election you better watch out for the havoc he will raise being a lame duck and having all his free time to finish his distruction of the American free enterprise system and you can bet your a$$ he will come after the 2nd amendment and gun ownership, after all what would he have to lose!!!

[JFootin]

Unfortunately this race has come down to voting against the current imposter in office rather than voting for someone you trust and want to see in office....

As in the 2008 election and being a voting Republican I kept asking myself, is this the best candidates the GOP can come up with? I totally respected John McCains war record but up against a spit polished reader/speaker like Obummer, McCain didn't stand a chance so look what we got now...

I have listened to Ron Paul and I really like what the man has to say but there is no way he can get elected and any vote for him might as well be for Barry O so I think even though I'm not crazy about either Newt or Mitt being elected because they are just more of the same big money bought and paid for professional politicians I have to support who ever the GOP nominee will be...

This country can't survive 4 more years of Obama and if he does win the election you better watch out for the havoc he will raise being a lame duck and having all his free time to finish his distruction of the American free enterprise system and you can bet your a$$ he will come after the 2nd amendment and gun ownership, after all what would he have to lose!!!

You betcha! "I kept asking myself, is this the best candidates the GOP can come up with?" My thoughts exactly back in 2008.

[skiflydive]

We have NO decent candidate to run from EITHER party. Every effin one of them is looking for the limelight.

It's the UNITED States of America folks, not my team can kick your teams ass.

And PLEASE...can we get religious fervor OUT of politics. I don't give squat about religion...I care about the USA

[crazymailman]

Maybe I missed it, but who said anything about religion? As for the current topic, I agree with getsome. Any vote for Paul is a vote for Obama. We cannot save the country with one election. Take the first step and get Barry out.

[apheod]

santorum? BACHMANN??!! are you serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htp7KCNkJqY

can you say OWNED IN THE FACE?

i believe ron paul can defeat obama in the general election, although i doubt the electoral college would allow it, assuming the scumbags running the GOP would even allow ron paul to run as their candidate after he dominates the polls. i mean he's got the military vote, libertarian vote, independant vote, the anti-war democrat vote, and a large portion of the republicans who aren't all about invading every country who has some muslims to kill and some oil to steal.

OBAMA? he's even lost a lot of the black vote, i believe in 2008 he had over 90% of the black vote. even though his mother is white...

[muggsy]

santorum? BACHMANN??!! are you serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htp7KCNkJqY

can you say OWNED IN THE FACE?

i believe ron paul can defeat obama in the general election, although i doubt the electoral college would allow it, assuming the scumbags running the GOP would even allow ron paul to run as their candidate after he dominates the polls. i mean he's got the military vote, libertarian vote, independant vote, the anti-war democrat vote, and a large portion of the republicans who aren't all about invading every country who has some muslims to kill and some oil to steal.

OBAMA? he's even lost a lot of the black vote, i believe in 2008 he had over 90% of the black vote. even though his mother is white...

No country was ever attacked because it's enemies thought it was too strong. We were attacked, because we showed weakness. The military supports the conservative republicans. That's why the democrats tried to suppress the overseas military vote in the last three elections.

You don't win a fight by backing away from it. You win a fight by defeating your enemies. It's the people who think like you that are putting America at risk. The number one obligation of the federal government is to protect us from foreign aggression and you don't want them to perform that task. Just out of curiosity, did you spend any time in the military? If not, don't speak for those who did.

[apheod]

No country was ever attacked because it's enemies thought it was too strong. We were attacked, because we showed weakness. The military supports the conservative republicans. That's why the democrats tried to suppress the overseas military vote in the last three elections.

You don't win a fight by backing away from it. You win a fight by defeating your enemies. It's the people who think like you that are putting America at risk. The number one obligation of the federal government is to protect us from foreign aggression and you don't want them to perform that task. Just out of curiosity, did you spend any time in the military? If not, don't speak for those who did.

growing up, i wanted to, and planned on being a marine. it wasn't until i was about 16 that i started taking a real interest in global news and decided that i wanted no part of the bogus wars we were fighting (which at the time was bosnia and kosovo) which had nothing to do with defending america. seeing iraq and afghanistan unfold made me want even less to do with killing whoever the gloablist elite asswipes running our country decided needed killing that week. now, i believe, comes the part where you state the superiority of your views based on the fact that you "wasted the slopes" in 'nam (grats on "winning" that war, by the way) and how i have no right to have any views on current events because i have not killed my fair share of towelheads.

i think you're ignorant of how things work in the modern time, and i pity you. i respect that you fought in vietnam, (which again, had little to do with defending america) not because of what you did, but because of what you believed you were doing at the time, but it gives you no sway in this argument. the things you say are easily debunked and shown to be misguided at best, head-up-ass ridiculous at worst.

you say we win fights by defeating our enemies. i assume you would support us going to war with iran and north korea tomorrow, since they are clearly our enemies. nevermind the fact that china and likely russia would step into such a conflict. you see things in black and white, and that's simply not how they are.

stop believing everything "they" would have you believe.

[apheod]

by the way, ron paul has little in common with your average "conservative republican."

most of the people labeled conservative republicans these days, are anything but what that phrase truly means.

[O'Dell]

Oh no, we've got one of those here!

[apheod]

Oh no, we've got one of those here!

Explain.

By the way, I'm not "presuming to speak for the military" I am stating a fact. Among active duty military monetary contributions, Ron Paul is KILLING the other GOP candidates, and is well ahead of Obama also.

He also led the pack in 2008 IIRC, even though his campaign didn't get much traction back then.

[muggsy]

Sure sounds like it, O'Dell.

[muggsy]

growing up, i wanted to, and planned on being a marine. it wasn't until i was about 16 that i started taking a real interest in global news and decided that i wanted no part of the bogus wars we were fighting (which at the time was bosnia and kosovo) which had nothing to do with defending america. seeing iraq and afghanistan unfold made me want even less to do with killing whoever the gloablist elite asswipes running our country decided needed killing that week. now, i believe, comes the part where you state the superiority of your views based on the fact that you "wasted the slopes" in 'nam (grats on "winning" that war, by the way) and how i have no right to have any views on current events because i have not killed my fair share of towelheads.

i think you're ignorant of how things work in the modern time, and i pity you. i respect that you fought in vietnam, (which again, had little to do with defending america) not because of what you did, but because of what you believed you were doing at the time, but it gives you no sway in this






argument. the things you say are easily debunked and shown to be misguided at best, head-up-ass ridiculous at worst.

you say we win fights by defeating our enemies. i assume you would support us going to war with iran and north korea tomorrow, since they are clearly our enemies. nevermind the fact that china and likely russia would step into such a conflict. you see things in black and white, and that's simply not how they are.

stop believing everything "they" would have you believe.

In your infinite wisdom at the age of 16 you decided that you wanted no part of the bogus wars that your country was fighting in Bosnia and Kosovo. So, you knew more than the President of the United States and the CIA? Damn, Apheod, I guess that I should stop arguing with you. In a battle of wits I'm totally disarmed. It must be wonderful to be so sure of yourself at such a tender age. It couldn't be that you were just taken in by the socialist propaganda. You do know that you could have joined the military as a conscientious objector and served in a non-combatant capacity? The marines might have made a man of you.

[apheod]

In your infinite wisdom at the age of 16 you decided that you wanted no part of the bogus wars that your country was fighting in Bosnia and Kosovo. So, you knew more than the President of the United States and the CIA? Damn, Apheod, I guess that I should stop arguing with you. In a battle of wits I'm totally disarmed. It must be wonderful to be so sure of yourself at such a tender age. It couldn't be that you were just taken in by the socialist propaganda. You do know that you could have joined the military as a conscientious objector and served in a non-combatant capacity? The marines might have made a man of you.

at 15 i took a standardized IQ test at school. 152 IQ. 2270 on the SAT and 34 on the ACT. straight As without even trying hard.

i think at 16, i was capable of making an informed decision on that subject, and the 12 years that have passed since then have only reinforced my opinions.

i like how you make little or no attempt to engage me in any real type of discussion, avoid responding to my points, and fail to make any significant points of your own. you simply attempt to discredit me as a person, and don't do a very good job.

you've called me a liberal, a socialist, a leftist, and a couple of other things i cannot remember off hand. none of which are true. i laugh at the democrat/republican system. it's 2 sides of the same coin.

[JFootin]

Hey, you 2. The angels said "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." Give it a rest, please.

[muggsy]

You've got it, J. I was getting bored anyway.

[oldjarhead]

Seen the latest. Holder during the latest Fast and Furious hearings, pulled the race card. He stated basically that because he was African-American, like obama, is the reason why he is being attacked. We are now up to 60 plus members of Congress, who want him to resign. His arrogance in the hearings is disgusting. This guy needs to go and be put in Federal prison.:mad:

[les strat]

Holder & Co. do not deserve to be fired, shuffled to another department, etc. They need to be imprisoned. What they did by supplying Mexican drug cartells with weapons could be considered an act of war by Mexico. If the shoe was on the other foot, how would we, the US, look at it. People have been lynched for far less than this scam.
No waiting for elections here. I say let the dogs loose on them.

[gkstemple]

Frankly, I don't care about the color of the United States Attorney General's skin. Nor do I care about the color of the President of the United States skin. They are, respectively, appointed and elected Federal Officials.

I care that there are 300+ dead citizens, killed in their own country of Mexico by criminals using guns our United States Government helped place into their hands during Operation Fast and Furious.

I care that on February 15, 2011 United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata was murdered while on duty in Mexico by Mexican drug cartel members armed with guns the United States Government helped place into their hands during Operation Fast and Furious.

I care that on December 15, 2010 United States Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry lost his life in the Arizona desert during a firefight with criminals armed with guns the United States Government helped place into their hands during Operation Fast and Furious.

I care that guns our United States Government helped move into criminal hands during Operation Fast and Furious have since been found at ELEVEN violent crime scenes in the United States.

I care that our United States Government helped at least 2,020 guns move into criminal hands during Operation Fast and Furious.

I care that about 1,500 of those "Operation Fast and Furious Guns" are still unaccounted for and are presumably in criminal hands SOMEWHERE in North America. Our United States Government CAN NOT GET THEM BACK. Indeed, the Mexican drug cartels have a reach into more than 1,000 US cities.

I care that Operation Fast and Furious "was part of an OCDETF investigation" (according to then-acting ATF Director Melson).

I care BECAUSE the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force "primarily concerns itself with the disruption of major drug trafficking operations and related crimes, such as money laundering, tax and weapon violations, and violent crime". So, they were supposed to be disrupting weapon violations, NOT facilitating them!

I care BECAUSE "the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task force utilizes the resources of eleven federal agencies to accomplish its objectives. This includes the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the U.S. Marshals Service, the Internal Revenue Service, and the U.S. Coast Guard – in cooperation with the Department of Justice Criminal Division, the Tax Division, and the 93 U.S. Attorney's Offices, as well as with state and local law enforcement." So, these government agencies just allocate their Agents and Budgeted Money willy-nilly about the country, WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE PLAN IS and WITHOUT KNOWING WHO APPROVED THAT PLAN? Unbelievable.

I care that Employees and Agencies of our United States Government have repeatedly and deliberately provided "incorrect", "misleading" and "inaccurate" information about Operation Fast and Furious both to Congressional Investigators and to the American People. Bluntly, we have been lied to. By those whose word SHOULD be their bond.

To this old country boy -- and I suspect to much of the rest of America -- it looks like our United States Government has facilitated a criminal enterprise that has already, predictably, resulted in many homicides in two countries and will continue to do so for a number of years. It further appears that Federal Officials are actively engaged in a cover-up of Operation Fast and Furious, so that the people responsible will never be identified and never face justice.

My Two Bits Worth, Again.
Gary

[John222]

I don't give a dam! That's my take. Just an operation that didn't work out. now the republicans are beating this dead old horse.

[muggsy]

It didn't work out for the socialist democrats who would like to imposed more gun control laws on law abiding citizens. And it didn't work out for those who were murdered with the guns that our government gave to the drug cartels. Nothing to get excited about.

[Mr_D]

I don't give a dam! That's my take. Just an operation that didn't work out. now the republicans are beating this dead old horse.
Obviously you don't understand the problem, it's not an old dead horse. This is a totally new operation leading up to getting the US population to support more gun control.
Seems like you've fallen for it.

[John222]

The Democrats beat up Reagen over Iran Contra just to make political points. And now the Republicans are making much to do about nothing over Fast & Furious for the same reason. I don't give a dam about either. Both were just political smoke screens to disorient and polarize us voters.

[gkstemple]

The fallout from Operation Fast and Furious is not a Democrat, Republican, Liberal or Conservative problem. It is a National problem. Just like other National problems that half of us kept quiet about because it was "our guy" who was being taken to task.

The folks who conceived, approved and implemented Operation Fast and Furious honestly believe they are the smartest people on the planet and perhaps they are. We don't know who they are and they are doing everything they can to make sure we never find out who they are. They are expecting half of us to keep quiet if we do find out because it will be "our guy" being taken to task. Again.

The problem with Operation Fast and Furious was that either NOBODY in the decision-making loop gave a damn about the easily forseen deadly consequences of arming violent criminals or EVERYBODY in the decision-making loop made a concious decision to accept those consequences to advance a political agenda (stricter controlls on guns). I wish there were other choices but there are none.

Using the disaster they created with Operation Fast and Furious as a pretext, they have managed BY BATFE REGULATION, not by a law passed by Congress, to restrict gun sales in the entirity of the five US states that border Mexico -- that's a gun sales restriction in 1/10th of the states of the United States! And there is absolutely nothing stopping them from adding the other 9/10. Except, maybe, our voices. But they need to hear the roar from a multitude, not the raspy whisper of a few voices from fly-over country.

Wake up and smell the Ham. It's your own butt on the grill.

[apheod]

What's wrong with Santorum or Bachman. Both are rock solid conservatives. If you don't vote for a republican you're going to get another four years of Obama. That will kill our country. Hold your nose and pull the lever.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/michele-bachmann/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/rick-santorum/

yep, rock solid, those two. whats wrong with them? besides the fact that they're both fanatical hypochristians and spend most of their time lying through their teeth? or we could start talking ethics, their history of voting on bills, etc...

as i've said before, my girlfriend grew up down the street from bachmann. knows their family well, was good friends with her children and spent a lot of time in her basement. i think very little of politicians to begin with, and haven't been a bit surprised by some of the stories she's told me.

[muggsy]

Apheod, go troll new waters. There are no fish here.

[Bawanna]

I apologize once again for avoiding the RKBA arena. As usual it seems to have been ugly for several pages.

So just for fun let kiss this thread good bye.