If you think range skills alone are good enough

[TriggerMan]

We all probably feel we have better than average skills because we go to the range more than twice per year. Heck, I go twice weekly. Maybe we feel confident because of a military background. I'm reminded of the former Marine in my tactical class who was asked to leave for his own and our class' safety. He brought a gun he was unfamiliar with and one that did not fit him. I guess you forget stuff over the course of 45 years.

Attached is the story of a home invasion (by a BG out on parole for multiple home invasions). The homeowner is a retired 62 year old cop. He had time to think and plan while the BG tried two doors before busting in.

Where do you suppose the shots went, as the cop faced off with the BG in his own kitchen. Well, at least one went into a neighbors house. Do you think any went COM? Think again. 3/4 hit. Both arms, one hand.

Not saying I would be more acccurate, just reminding members that training should never end. If yours never started, this is the week for New Year's Resolutions, isn't it?

http://www.freep.com/article/20111223/NEWS04/111223019/Retired-police-officer-shoots-intruder-Warren-home?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[Bill K]

IMHO, mind set is more important than skill set. But having said that I'm in no way trying to diminish the point the OP is making.

Read a story, don't really know whether is is true or not, about a State Trooper that was one of the top competition handgun shooters in the State. First time he had to use his gun in a close range shootout he missed 3 times entirely before hitting CM.

[TriggerMan]

IMHO, mind set is more important than skill set. But having said that I'm in no way trying to diminish the point the OP is making.Agree. "He who hesitates is lost".

Based on the outcome, the retired cop was better prepared.

[TriggerMan]

Intruder killed despite wearing body armor

LITTLETON — An intruder in a four-person armed invasion was killed Wednesday night despite wearing body armor, authorities said.

Lt. Bobby Martin, with the Halifax County Sheriff’s Office, said 20-year-old Ricardo Keith Harley, 20, was killed following an exchange of gunfire at a home in the Short Street area Wednesday. The sheriff’s office is looking for two suspects today as authorities continue their investigation. Martin said deputies are still trying to identify those involved and provide the public with detailed descriptions.

According to Martin, the sheriff’s office responded to a home invasion at 8:17 p.m.

While en route to this location, officers were made aware shots had been fired and one suspect was still in the house.

“Deputy Corey Griffin arrived ... and discovered that one suspect had been shot and was not responding and another was being detained by the home owner, also two other suspects had fled on foot,” Martin said,

Kayman Northington was taken into custody at the home of the victim upon Griffin’s arrival, Martin said, adding one suspect found shot at the scene was later pronounced dead.

Northington is charged with first degree burglary, conspiracy to commit robbery with a dangerous weapon and carrying a concealed weapon. He is being held in the Halifax County Detention Center under a $200,000 bond. His court date is Feb. 1.

Martin said there were four to five people in the house when the home invasion began.

“There were four intruders, three actually made it into the house and one stayed outside,” Martin said. “The gentleman who we took into custody, Kayman Northington, was the first one into the house. After, two more forced their way in behind him.”

Martin said once inside, shots were fired. The home owner had a gun pulled on him.

“From what we are gathering from the witnesses, everybody started scattering and running,” Martin said. “According to witnesses, the bad guys came in and fired a shot. The home owner grabs his gun and fires a shot at one of the bad guys.”

The home’s occupants were able to stop Northington, but the other intruders got away, Martin said.

“The gentleman that did get shot and was killed was wearing body armor,” Martin said. “That is a trend we are starting to see. The bad guys go in to do a robbery or home invasion and they have their body armor on.

“We ask anyone with information about this case to contact the Halifax County Sheriff’s Office at 252-583-8051 or Halifax County Crimestoppers at 252-583-4444,” Martin said.

According to Martin, the robbery was drug related.

He said homeowners have a right to protect their home, and the homeowner in this shooting will not be charged.

http://www.rrdailyherald.com/n...f8-0019bb2963f4.html (http://www.rrdailyherald.com/news/intruder-killed-despite-wearing-body-armor/article_83c410b8-2cad-11e1-95f8-0019bb2963f4.html)

[Bill K]

Now that is scary! The bad guy usually does have the upper hand but add to that body armor - man that sucks.

[TriggerMan]

The first incident is probably 20 minutes from me, the one below about 35 minutes

http://www.freep.com/article/20111223/NEWS05/111223003/Several-shot-at-Waterford-roller-rink?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[ltxi]

We all probably feel we have better than average skills because we go to the range more than twice per year. Heck, I go twice weekly. Maybe we feel confident because of a military background. I'm reminded of the former Marine in my tactical class who was asked to leave for his own and our class' safety. He brought a gun he was unfamiliar with and one that did not fit him. I guess you forget stuff over the course of 45 years.

Attached is the story of a home invasion (by a BG out on parole for multiple home invasions). The homeowner is a retired 62 year old cop. He had time to think and plan while the BG tried two doors before busting in.

Where do you suppose the shots went, as the cop faced off with the BG in his own kitchen. Well, at least one went into a neighbors house. Do you think any went COM? Think again. 3/4 hit. Both arms, one hand.

Not saying I would be more acccurate, just reminding members that training should never end. If yours never started, this is the week for New Year's Resolutions, isn't it?

http://www.freep.com/article/20111223/NEWS04/111223019/Retired-police-officer-shoots-intruder-Warren-home?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Huh, I'm pushing 69 years old and haven't had to shoot anyone in maybe 10 years. Prolly oughta go practice.

Seriously....Retired cop is pretty much a red herring. Whole lot of cops/agents don't care about guns, are barely proficient when they're still on the job, only fire for mandatory training/qualification, and never draw during a career. (Goes for most military as well.) So where do you think that leaves them 20+ years retired? About back to the level of a 16 year old with a new driver's license.

And the comment about mind set is absolutely right on....mind set and commitment. Unfortunately, unless you've been there you can never be 100% sure. Once you have been you know and won't hardly forget.

[Bawanna]

Exactly right Ixti, you can train 8 days a week but until you look the elephant right square in the eye you will not know what you will or can do.

If all goes well you will practice what you've trained to do subconciously hopefully but you just won't know.

[CJB]

Firing the shot... always the thing to ponder.

Man being the most dangerous game, but not the only dangerous game to tangle with, sometimes I wonder how the steely nerved hunters of four legged game would do in an encounter with the two legged kind. Now food for thought: How would your average cop or ex-cop deal with the charging cape buffalo, when carrying a .416 Rigby double, and knowing it may very well take both shots to stop the beast? I think our society has gotten too soft.....

[TriggerMan]

Firing the shot... always the thing to ponder.

Man being the most dangerous game, but not the only dangerous game to tangle with, sometimes I wonder how the steely nerved hunters of four legged game would do in an encounter with the two legged kind. Now food for thought: How would your average cop or ex-cop deal with the charging cape buffalo, when carrying a .416 Rigby double, and knowing it may very well take both shots to stop the beast? I think our society has gotten too soft.....
I don't know which I know less about, cape buffalo or Rigby .416 doubles. Never covered either in Sales and Marketing 201.

[muggsy]

Exactly right Ixti, you can train 8 days a week but until you look the elephant right square in the eye you will not know what you will or can do.

If all goes well you will practice what you've trained to do subconciously hopefully but you just won't know.

+1 My sentiments exactly.

[Longitude Zero]

And the comment about mind set is absolutely right on....mind set and commitment. Unfortunately, unless you've been there you can never be 100% sure. Once you have been you know and won't hardly forget.

Having been there I know for 99.9% sure how all future encounters will go. What is truly scary is after the first time it becomes ridiculously easy it becomes after that.

[mightymouse]

The internet gun geeks will have you training with the best SD rounds only using one high dollar gun for umpteen hours a day. You must have point and shoot capabilities, "muscle memory" which takes endless practice. You need live simulations and thirty seven spare mags, a few back up guns, two blades, bright light, and a tactical pen and keychain.
I read more than a few success stories, a granny with .22s taking out a bad guy, some store clerk stopping a robbery with a gun he just bought.
I think I'm comfortable and reasonably accurate pulling the trigger on all my guns.
I guess I have a life, not enough money, and train when I can using wallmart target ammo. I'm 1000 times more likely to die from a fat belly and cholesterol. I wish these could be warded off by tucking my CM9 down my ever tightening waistband.
So if you're like me, take scare subjects like this with a grain of salt and a Tums. You shoot, know your way around a gun. You are way ahead of the curve.
Perhaps I ate too much for Christmas dinner, again. I think I'll go for a walk... packing my Kahr of course.

[ltxi]

Having been there I know for 99.9% sure how all future encounters will go. What is truly scary is after the first time it becomes ridiculously easy it becomes after that.

Much truth in that. Although I prefer to view it as being fortunate enough to have the easy confidence of knowledge/experience and comfort in one's own skin.

Ok, ridiculously easy works, too.

[getsome]

I'm glad there are men and women that want to be Police Officers but in this day and time there are just to many crazy evil drug addict dirt bag thugs out there that have absolutely no respect for a badge and would rather target a cop than a citizen just for the bragging rights....

On Christmas day here in Gwinnett County Ga where O'Dell and I live the Police received an alarm from a residence and when they knocked on the door a crazy woman opened it with a gun in one hand and a knife in the other...The officer had to shoot her dead and thank God he wasn't injured except for the emotional scars he will bare on every Christmas day to come remembering the events of that day...

I know the Police have a job to do but they are human beings under that uniform and have to deal with all the worst of the worst society has to offer each and every day they are on the job for very little in return...

Many years ago I thought that I wanted to become a Police Officer but I'm so glad I didn't go through with it because I am not equipped for that line of work but thankfully Praise God, some are...

[apheod]

i don't, thats why i shoot IDPA 3-4 times a month.

granted, thats still nowhere near a deadly force encounter, but the stress of the clock and 15+ people watching you shoot, and the experience of moving while shooting, quick reloads, using cover, etc. leave you far more prepared for a tactical situation than simply standing at the line plinking away at paper targets.

[JodyH]

The problem with considering yourself "good enough" is that you won't know what good enough actually is until the game has already ended.