how much frame to slide slop is normal?

[apheod]

so i finally got my k9 back from kahr (for the 3rd time) with all of my issues fixed.

however, they had to "rework the frame" which i assume means removing metal twice, and now there is a lot of play between my frame and slide. an old thread i found said that it was normal while unloaded but should disappear once you load it up. my barrel seems to be locked up into the slide tightly, but i can move the slide on the frame side to side at the rear end of the pistol, and about 3 times as much at the front end. i can also twist it side to side a little.

if i shake the gun, whether empty or loaded, mag in or out, there is a nasty loud rattle. i have not yet test fired it on a bench to see if accuracy is affected, but it seems to me that it's moving more than enough to affect shot placement , especially going out to 25-30 yards.

so, just how "normal" is this in the steel framed kahrs?

[muggsy]

I can't speak to the K9 as I own the CM9, but my CM9 is rock solid with no play in the slide what-so-ever and no rattles. I would think that the steel frame Kahrs should be the same.

[CJB]

Refinishing does involve metal removal..... It either a reblasr or repolish.... I suspect a courtesy thing since the gun went back twice. There may have been another issue that made things tight on your pistol that ere corrected.

[apheod]

it went back 3 times, the first time it went in they ignored all 3 of the issues i stated and sent it back to me with a feed ramp polish.

that was a brain fart though, i meant "reworked the slide" not refinished. editing original post.

[CJB]

Look for evidence of a tiny relief angle cut at the bottom of the breechface...

[apheod]

i believe i see the angle you mean. i'm a machinist by trade, so i know what tooling marks look like.

the frame has definitely been grinded on, though. the front part of it is no longer a uniform circle, it's a little jagged and just shoddy looking. inside the frame where the slide moves, it looks like a dremel hack job.

[Sap]

Here's my opinion on the subject. Fighting guns should have some play within their parts. As long as the weapon functions properly/reliably and is accurate out to 25yds...who cares about some play in the slide to frame fit? My brand new K9 has about as much play as yours does judging by your video. I can also get my K9 to stick out of battery like you did in the video. You said it yourself though. The gun is not made to go into battery slowly with resistance like what you are doing in the video. As long as that slide slamms home when shooting the pistol, I say it's GtG. If I had the choice between a finely tuned absolutely tight pistol or a one with a little slop I would pick the slop. I'm speaking about fighting guns here. Not show pieces.

[ripley16]

Shoot the gun a little then let us know how it works. That's the only proof or test that matters. Lots of guns rattle, no big deal. Slide movement on the frame has no relation to accuracy. All tha matters is that the barrel lock up consistantly. If you have that then the gun will shoot to the same spot each round.

Go have some fun and quit worrying so much. Shoot the damn thing. :D

[apheod]

i've put about 700 rounds through the thing so far testing it out everytime it comes back from the factory. been less than impressed...

i plan on getting out to shoot it off a bench rest at 25 yards this week if i get to feeling better, got a pretty nasty head cold at the moment.

the thing i'm mainly worried about it with it having so much side to side play, it should still be accurate with the regular sights (and i will definitely be able to shoot it this way, since i'll be using it in IDPA 2-3 times a month) but i have crimson trace grips on it. i want to see how far off it can get some where the laser is pointing. i'm well aware i shouldnt be depending on the laser to aim, but in a high stress situation, i may need to. this will also be my EDC, if i can ever get satisfied with the thing. i've been satisfied with every other weapon i've owned out of the box other than a POS ex police glock 22.

[Mr_D]

My "test fired" (frame is marked with a "U") P45 is that way. Since it's been rebuilt by Kahr before reselling it I assume that it's OK.
My "test fired" (also marked with the "U") PM9 has a little bit of slop but not near as much.
Wanted to get to the range today and try them out but wife had different ideas!

My P45 looked like it had never been fired, the PM9 OTH looks like it was never cleaned before being sold. Even down to black powder deposits on the bottom of the slide and brass marks on the breech face and bottom of the slide.

[FLBri]

My PM9 is rock solid with no slop, as is my MK9.
My T9 has some play .... my T40 has what I would refer to as "lots of Play".

The most accurate of the group ..... T40 ... followed closely by the T9 .... Go Figure.

[apheod]

guess i never did update this thread. after the trip to the range, using the laser only for sighting at 25 yards, i was all over the place shooting off a bench. 8-10 inch groups, while i was doing 5 inch groups with my pm9 at the same range using the iron sights. i shoot 2 inch groups at that range with my hk on a bench.

i was able to get it consistant if i pushed the slide to one side before every shot. unacceptable. sent it back in for the 4th return, and demanded a new weapon.

[apheod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVi4DSNiTLg&feature=youtu.be

the higher quality video i made of it, now that i got my HD camera up and running again.

[eltee]

Sounds like you got a dog. I haven't really heard of many problems with the steel Kahrs.

[apheod]

i've had 4 unrelated issues with this particular one.

[Bongo Boy]

Just looked at the video and the visible play looks normal to me for just about any auto pistol I've ever handled except for bullseye 1911 customs. I can't say if it's typical for Kahr steel autos--I own just one and have never handled or fired any others. But, your K9 appears to have about the same play and same rattle as my K40--virtually identical I'd say.

Anyway, it doesn't matter much now I guess--I'd just have to say, as was said above, it shouldn't be expected to have any impact on accuracy. While you may certainly have an issue with the gun, I don't believe the accuracy issue can be attributed to the particular play you showed. Getting 8-10" groups is a definite problem--especially for anyone who can shoot 2" groups at 25 yds--which I wouldn't be able to do sandbag or not.

Let us know how Kahr responds...I'm curious.

[apheod]

There was a very big difference between this after its last return to me and the k9 and k40 I handled at local shops, and I compared them side by side. Kahr is replacing the frame for me, I should have it back in a few days.

Does your k40 rattle like that too?

[kerby9mm]

Neither one of my two steel Kahrs (mk9&mk40) have any rattle when shaken,very little side to side slide play and do not twist as your video showed. They should replace your gun with a new one not just with parts. The time,money and frustration that you have endured has to be more costly than simply replacing your faulty k9. Not to mention the video on utube. How many potential customers are going to view that.

[Bongo Boy]

Does your k40 rattle like that too?

Yeah it sounds about the same and looks about the same--mine may have somewhat less overall play, but if so it's only very slightly less. In any case, looks like things are moving in the right direction. I wouldn't expect any change in the shooting performance of the gun due to the frame changeout, however; but, we'll all hope for the best.

[csman22]

if you say it doesn't shoot well...that may be the case. But...many other guns have slide play..and one can make them rattle....but if they shoot well, so be it. My t9 has some play...like others, similar to yours, but...I'm not worried about it. Shoots as good as I am at 25 yrds and it's excellent at 7.

it;s just too bad you have to go through all this (it can an does happen with any fine product and any vendor) but...if this is the only gun you have had issues with, then get rid of it and get another (kahr or otherwise)

I doubt Kahr will leave you stranded on this. Be patient. Too many others have k9's and are happy, you'll be amongst them soon.
c

[Longitude Zero]

None to very little.