.40 s&w

[getsome]

I picked up a new Lee carbide die set this weekend in .40 S&W and will start loading this caliber....Since I bought a S&W M&P in .40 I am going through lots more of that caliber ammo than when just shooting my PM40...

My question are:
1. Is there anything different about loading .40 than say .45 ACP?...

2. My book calls for a low load of Universal Clay powder of 5 gns to a high of 5.8 gns...My aim is to start shooting reduced recoil practice loads and will the low end 5 or 5.2 gns still cycle the slide in my PM40?...I want to practice more with it but even with WWB loads it starts to be no more fun after 40-50 rounds due to recoil...

3. I was surprised to find no .40 caliber bullets available but only 10mm which says on the box to be .40 inch in diameter so is this ok to use? I normally shoot 165 or 180 grain but these are 155 grain and my book doesn't list that weight in .40 cal so I will start at the lowest charge of 5 gns to see how that works...

Does anyone make a .40 cal bullet or are they all listed as 10mm?

Thank you all for your help to a rookie reloader...

[Bawanna]

I've never looked into loading the 40 but I know it loads just like the 45. Rimless, head spaces on the case mouth so roll crimps are out. Taper crimps are in

10mm and 40 are the same but I've never really looked to find any listed as 40. Same with 45 if you load 45 Colt, you have to go off the 451, 452 dimension.

Your exactly on track by starting with the low end of the powder menu scale. With a lighter bullet you should be fine and maybe even able to load more than the max but start low and work up, looking for pressure signs, flat primers, etc.

You may run into cycling issues if you load too light, might get a failure now and then that will improve as you increase the load. Might be just fine too but it could happen.

[johnatw]

Getsome, I have also just started reloading 40 cal and bought my bullets from Precision Delta in MS
http://precisiondelta.com
I started with Winchester FMJ bullets from Midway, but found Precision had a better price, $222 for 2,000 shipping included.
The Winchester made a perfect looking load, and the Precision had a slightly different profile and my RCBS die left a slight indent on the nose of the Precision bullet. I emailed RCBS to ask about that and they sent a new, polished seat plug at no charge. I don't think the indent would cause any problem, it just looks odd. I'll try the new part today.
I have kind of settled for a powder charge mid range of the options for Power Pistol powder and everything works fine.

[johnatw]

I'm back from the range testing my latest reloads. The finished product looked good, the new RCBS seat plug did not indent the bullet, and the precision delta bullets were accurate, maybe a little more accurate than WWB? I did have 2 or 3 failure to return to battery, this has not been a problem with WWB so either I limp wristed or I need to step up one or two tenths of a grain of powder. (I recently replaced my recoil spring, maybe still a little strong?)

[Bongo Boy]

Lot's of bullets in 40 from everyone who makes bullets, that should be no problem at all. Montana Gold, Speer, Hornady, Barry's, Rainier, Remington...you name it, they make a 40. Usually found by diameter, but will be listed also as "10mm/40" or some variation of that. Bullet diameter will be .400" for jacketed, .401" for lead.

Also, you can find many 40SW loads for the 155gr bullet at Hodgdon's load site (google 'hodgdon load data'), and in Universal they start at 5.7gr and max'es out at 6.2gr. You can also visit the load table at the Accurate site for their powders.

If you're loading these with 5.0gr Universal still, then that may be the problem you're having--just enough oomph to extract, eject and pick up another round, but just barely. I don't know though, so far I haven't gotten any handloads to cycle in my K40 because they won't chamber. It's definitely not the powder charge that's a problem--they won't drop into the chamber by hand, either. Separate issue.

[Bongo Boy]

My impression so far after owning the K40 for one day is that the chamber is very fussy--no slop at all. Ammo that chambers by the 1000s in my M&P won't chamber in the K40, and I've even shortened the round from 1.125" to 1.085" and it makes no difference. It's not the bullet hitting the leade as I expected it was...looks to me like the .402" bullets I'm using are just too fat. The outside of the case at the mouth looks to be getting gummed up in there a bit, and I doubt that the proper-sized .401" lead bullets would help at all.

I'm thinking getsome's problem might be similar, if the bullets he's using are not very round. "I've read of" problems with Montana Gold's being out-of-round by a few thousandths, and maybe many others are, too.

I'm starting to thing that good, round .400" plated or jacketed bullets are going to be a requirement for this gun, at least with the factory barrel unmodified.

Opinions?

[Bongo Boy]

Here's what I've got so far:

- Factory ammo (Federal Champion) measures .420-.4205" & chambers with some slop
- Reloads with .401" lead bullets measure .4225-.423" and chamber with no slop
- Reloads with .402" lead bullets measure .424 -.4245" and don't drop in

There you have it. Using bullets that are too big causes cartridges that are too big. :o

So, the 1,200 bullets that I have left will all go into an acetone wash to remove the lube that I hate anyway, then through the sizer refitted with a 0.400" die.
Or, I'll just load 'em up and shoot 'em in the M&P.

[Bongo Boy]

Fired 100 rds of the handloads using the resized (.401") bullets and had only about 4 rds that had to be coaxed into the chamber. Still too many, but a definite improvement.

[getsome]

Thanks Bongo Boy for you help...After re-reading the load book I was wrong about the charge for 155 grn Hornady JHP and you are correct it is 5.7 low to 6.2 high with Universal Clays so I made the first batch 5.9 gn and will shoot them this weekend...

I didn't have any problem loading the bullets and they all look fine...I didn't measure the length but used my calipers to measure a factory Hornady round with the same bullet and made mine the same and they chamber in the PM40 fine...

I'm going to start another batch tonight using 6.0 grn powder then see if there is any difference but truthfully as bad as I shoot I wouldn't know if it was the load or my shooting that made any difference....

My son shoots my M&P .40 full size real good but I make him use new ammo because I don't ever want anything to happen to him because of me possibly making a handloading error so I will shoot the reloads or stock them up for when the zombies show up...:eek:

[Tilos]

Bongo Boy:
I $20 push thru Lee sizing die will fix the oversize bullet problem and can be bought in about any size.
I've used them for both lead(from missouri bullet) and jacketed (resize 38s to 9mm:o)
If lead is your game MBC will size them to whatever diameter you want...if you order enough.

Tilos

[Bongo Boy]

Thanks Bongo Boy for you help...After re-reading the load book I was wrong about the charge for 155 grn Hornady JHP and you are correct it is 5.7 low to 6.2 high with Universal Clays so I made the first batch 5.9 gn and will shoot them this weekend...

Be sure to report back! I'm just finishing up the last of my HP-38 and will move to Universal as well. My 135gr flat points should be here shortly and I'm anxious to see how those run in the K40. In an online review the shooter had very good results with the little bullets.

Update: bullets arrived today and they are gorgeous. They mike at 0.3995-0.400, and not a one that I've measured varies by more than 0.0005" (a 1/2 thousandth) out-of-round. We'll see how they shoot. They looked so tiny when I opened the box I thought they were 9s.

Thanks for the tip Tilos, re: the push-through die. I wouldn't have thought of even looking for such a die although I very vaguely recall reading references to them. I'm down to just 1,000 of the .402s and it's unlikely I'll buy any more lead bullets (vs casting my own), so I'll likely just keep runnin' 'em thru the Lubrisizer. Real good thing to keep in mind for jacketed bullets in the future, tho.

I wish Lee made their smaller .401 bullet in a 6-cavity mold but currently only the 180gr TC is available in the big mold.

[Bongo Boy]

My book calls for a low load of Universal Clay powder of 5 gns to a high of 5.8 gns...My aim is to start shooting reduced recoil practice loads and will the low end 5 or 5.2 gns still cycle the slide in my PM40?...

I wanted to just mention the supreme importance of not confusing 'Universal Clays' with 'Clays'. Several times on the various sites, less-experienced folks have used these two names interchangeably, or have asked about what's what with the two.

There are, I think, 3 powders from Hodgdon with 'Clays' in the name: 'Clays', Universal Clays', and 'International Clays'. Anyway, they are in no way remotely similar to one another--at least 'Clays' and 'Universal Clays' aren't. You can compare the load data for identical cartridge-bullet combinations and see why it's important to distinguish--Universal Clays loads can be about double the charges of comparable Clays loads.

'Universal Clays' is almost universally referred to as 'Universal', and seldom if ever referred to as Universal Clays, even though that's it's name. 'Clays' is referred to as 'Clays'.

Don't know if the low-end loads will cycle your PM, but I would expect so. You can also load 10-20 rds of 5.7, 5.8 and 5.9 each, initially, then you don't have a bunch of stuff you have to manually cycle to get rid of.

Finally, for loads at the low end of the spectrum and especially for softer-shooting loads, you'll likely end up trying Clays. It's hugely popular in both IDPA and USPSA handloads, and has the added advantage of going nearly twice as far as Universal because of the reduced per-round charges. Solo 1000 (from Accurate) is an even more common powder for these loads.

For loads that you are NOT trying to use for self-defense rounds, you may want to go with less-expensive bullets, too. A plated 155 or 165 gr bullet might save a lot of money where hollow-points aren't needed.

...and Happy Handloading

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