New to Kahr

[rstyshcklfrd]

I did the research, and pulled the trigger. Pun intended. I bought my first Kahr today: a CM9. It'll be here Tuesday!

Anyone have any input gathered from personal experience maybe?

Also, can I shoot +p+ in it?

[MLESa7990]

Negative on the +p+

[OldLincoln]

Hmmmm.... is there a Rusty in that moniker? A big howdy and welcome to Kahrtalk.

The CM9 is a very good gun and mostly trouble free for those who follow the "Proper Prep" instruction in the Kahr-Tech Section. Be sure and rub grease on the Lube Point 6 in the guide. You want to reduce friction especial;ly during break-in to keep the slide speed up and wear those parts together right.

Also use a decent round nose ammo, not low powered stuff. After a few hundred rounds it will do fine with most ammo.

The +P is an excellent round, but the issue with +P+ is the lack of exact specs. Kahr did at one time say it was okay, but then some non-Kahr guns had issues with "super-hot" +P+ so Kahr backed off to be safe. That last "+" doesn't do much anyway so you won't miss it. My carry ammo is Federal HST +P 147gn and I'm comfortable with it.

Again Welcome!

[rstyshcklfrd]

Ah well then that works. And yes, Rusty Shackleford is where I got the name lol. I'm pretty excited. I'll have to go buy some grease to do that then as I typically use oil. I can't wait!

[Bawanna]

Ah well then that works. And yes, Rusty Shackleford is where I got the name lol. I'm pretty excited. I'll have to go buy some grease to do that then as I typically use oil. I can't wait!

Oil will work fine there too. Just put a little on that spot and run with it.

Welcome aboard.

[jocko]

if u need the +P+ then buy a 40 cal and just be done with it!!! Not very many people really mess with this +P+ amo..

[JFootin]

Welcome to the forum, Rusty! You bought the finest subcompact 9 on the market! (No slight intended toward the PM9 lovers. Same gun with more options. :banplease:)

You don't need +p+. Put some Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST in there (or very many other excellent +p SD rounds), and you're a very lethal weapon. But put at least 200 FMJs through it to break it in first.

You will find that the CM9 is a sweet shooter with not as much recoil as you would think in such a small gun. And after a few hundred rounds, any of these Kahrs really smooth out, will eat any quality ammo and spit it out!

I got a Qwik-Grip (http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1150&CAT=84) rubber sleeve for mine. Really makes the gun handle well. That is, unless you are trying to pocket carry, where the tacky rubber causes problems drawing the gun. The CM9 is a little too big for pocket carry, IMO. I carry mine in a PJ Holster Clip On IWB Kydex Holster (http://pjholster.com/?page_id=37). I and other people here will tell you this is the only holster we have ever seen that is so comfortable carrying these compact guns that it and the gun seem to disappear when you are wearing it! I mean you cannot feel it there in the sweet spot right behind your hip at all, or feel the mass of the gun when you are moving around. You have to reach down there and feel with your hand to confirm it is still there. And just $40 shipped - a bargain! Coach Paul will customize it the way you want as far as ride height, cant and other attachment options (I recommend the over the belt clip).

Go to the Kahr-Tech forum and read the stickies about proper prep and the lube chart (see post #7). And like jocko says, "Shoot it like you stole it!" (jocko is a foundation stone around here, wrote the proper prep thread, is a very bad speller and an irrepressible wit around here. Stay on his good side or he'll send you a horse's head! :roll:)

[KMA]

I did the research, and pulled the trigger. Pun intended. I bought my first Kahr today: a CM9. It'll be here Tuesday!

Anyone have any input gathered from personal experience maybe?

Also, can I shoot +p+ in it?

IMO using +p+ ammo should be a very bad idea. Both +p and +p+ ammo are high pressure ammunition, but +p+ is not SAMMI rated which means that you do not have a clue about what you are shooting. While most +p ammunition is 10% above the SAMMI standard, +p+ ammo can be whatever above that 10%. +p+ ammo along with unknown reloads is the easiest way to have a kaboom. I should stay away from +p+ ammo.

[rstyshcklfrd]

I only ask because I have Federal 9BPLE in my Glock right now, which is 115gr +p+ ammunition. I certainly don't feel like I need it, but it's what I bought last time. I'll probably shoot it up and buy some +p. My girlfriend is ordering my a crossbreed supertuck for Valentine's Day so that'll probably be my primary holster. I just placed an order for a Remora No-Clip holster as well for whenever I'm too lazy to put on pants or when I want to pocket carry.

For break in, since I don't have the manual, anyone have an opinion as to whether or not it would be okay to use some steel russian ammo in it? Or am I about to start a flame-war? Lol

[JFootin]

I only ask because I have Federal 9BPLE in my Glock right now, which is 115gr +p+ ammunition. I certainly don't feel like I need it, but it's what I bought last time. I'll probably shoot it up and buy some +p. My girlfriend is ordering my a crossbreed supertuck for Valentine's Day so that'll probably be my primary holster. I just placed an order for a Remora No-Clip holster as well for whenever I'm too lazy to put on pants or when I want to pocket carry.

For break in, since I don't have the manual, anyone have an opinion as to whether or not it would be okay to use some steel russian ammo in it? Or am I about to start a flame-war? Lol

The Crossbreed is a good choice. Nix on the Russian ammo. Lousy, dirty stuff! I think you can probably download a manual from the Kahr website. You can als go the CM9 page, click the tabs down below and find a take-down video which is very helful. You have to be careful about the slide lock spring when reinserting the lever.

[KMA]

I only ask because I have Federal 9BPLE in my Glock right now, which is 115gr +p+ ammunition. I certainly don't feel like I need it, but it's what I bought last time. I'll probably shoot it up and buy some +p. My girlfriend is ordering my a crossbreed supertuck for Valentine's Day so that'll probably be my primary holster. I just placed an order for a Remora No-Clip holster as well for whenever I'm too lazy to put on pants or when I want to pocket carry.

For break in, since I don't have the manual, anyone have an opinion as to whether or not it would be okay to use some steel russian ammo in it? Or am I about to start a flame-war? Lol

Personally, I would not shoot +p+ ammo at all, and even less when talking about a Glock; I have seen way too many kabooms that happened because of high pressure ammunition.

Some people like Russian steel ammo, I never use steel ammo in any of my firearms. If you use Russian ammo remember to clean the firearm very well after shooting, because it normally is very dirty and most of then are corrosive

[jocko]

does glock say ok with +P+ ammo??? not sure I ever read that


I talked to Darrell(Darryl) who was in tech support and asked specifically if there was a problem removing ANY Glock pistol from the shipping box and feeding it either +P or +P+ ammo.

His response:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
There is not a problem with firing +P or +P+ FACTORY ammo out of a Glock weapon. We DO NOT recommend feeding any of our pistols a steady diet of this type of ammo due to the excessive pressures that CAN cause excessive wear on the weapon.

Next I asked if they recommend upgrading any components like a recoil spring for someone that might want to carry these rounds exclusively and practice with them at a rate of two range trips a month.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
We would recommend that the end user be aware of the extra pressure these rounds can exert on the weapon and would recommend them to upgrade their recoil spring at a rate of once every 2,000 rounds ( of +P or +P+ ) instead of our normal recommended number of 3,000-5,000 regular rounds

Then I asked him if there was damage to the weapon and a customer sent it back with full disclosure that they had indeed been shooting +P and/or +P+ ammo in it, would this void the warranty or otherwise affect the level of service they received. This answer was a little less definite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
I would like to say that Glock would stand behind our product and our warranty 100% but in a case such as this there would have to be questions if the damage was done due to excessive pressure and if that excessive pressure was from factory loads or not.

"So, Glock may question if the end user was handloading and this caused the problem?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
Yes sir, that is corrrect. But it should not affect the level of service or attention that the customer would receive from Glock.

So, there you have it folks. Right from Tech Support in Georgia. You can shoot the hot stuff through your Glocks, but make sure and change your recoil springs frequently and have your data books up to date with the ammo you used just in case.

+1 for Glock on this issue.

[KMA]

does glock say ok with +P+ ammo??? not sure I ever read that

No, it does not, but they say that reloads should not be used in any Glock firearm. It is OK to shoot +p.

[rstyshcklfrd]

I did some research on that before I decided to buy it, and read in several places that factory +p+ ammo is okay in a Glock. But in those same threads/articles/etc it also mentioned not to constantly shoot it. So for carry it is okay by me.

As for russian ammo, I use it for practice typically. I found some really good deals on some recently and want to get it all shot up. I'll go back to some winchester white box after I get through the rest of my small stockpile(like 350-400 rounds). And you're absolutely right about how dirty it is, but I like cleaning my gun so it's a win-win lol.

[jocko]

I have no doubt one can shoot +P+ pout of a kahr . how long or why is the question. It is very very expensive ammo, so for range fodder u know it is out, but for a magazinefull, certainly IMO it is fine to go with it. Kahrs are not pus-y guns, just no real exact saami standards for +P+ ammo, so why ut ur guraantee behind something that has not real base standards..

[KMA]

I did some research on that before I decided to buy it, and read in several places that factory +p+ ammo is okay in a Glock. But in those same threads/articles/etc it also mentioned not to constantly shoot it. So for carry it is okay by me.

As for russian ammo, I use it for practice typically. I found some really good deals on some recently and want to get it all shot up. I'll go back to some winchester white box after I get through the rest of my small stockpile(like 350-400 rounds). And you're absolutely right about how dirty it is, but I like cleaning my gun so it's a win-win lol.

I understand.

[KMA]

does glock say ok with +P+ ammo??? not sure I ever read that


I talked to Darrell(Darryl) who was in tech support and asked specifically if there was a problem removing ANY Glock pistol from the shipping box and feeding it either +P or +P+ ammo.

His response:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
There is not a problem with firing +P or +P+ FACTORY ammo out of a Glock weapon. We DO NOT recommend feeding any of our pistols a steady diet of this type of ammo due to the excessive pressures that CAN cause excessive wear on the weapon.

Next I asked if they recommend upgrading any components like a recoil spring for someone that might want to carry these rounds exclusively and practice with them at a rate of two range trips a month.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
We would recommend that the end user be aware of the extra pressure these rounds can exert on the weapon and would recommend them to upgrade their recoil spring at a rate of once every 2,000 rounds ( of +P or +P+ ) instead of our normal recommended number of 3,000-5,000 regular rounds

Then I asked him if there was damage to the weapon and a customer sent it back with full disclosure that they had indeed been shooting +P and/or +P+ ammo in it, would this void the warranty or otherwise affect the level of service they received. This answer was a little less definite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
I would like to say that Glock would stand behind our product and our warranty 100% but in a case such as this there would have to be questions if the damage was done due to excessive pressure and if that excessive pressure was from factory loads or not.

"So, Glock may question if the end user was handloading and this caused the problem?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel From Glock
Yes sir, that is corrrect. But it should not affect the level of service or attention that the customer would receive from Glock.

So, there you have it folks. Right from Tech Support in Georgia. You can shoot the hot stuff through your Glocks, but make sure and change your recoil springs frequently and have your data books up to date with the ammo you used just in case.

+1 for Glock on this issue.

I have read the same in different forums, one of them is Firearmstalk.com. What I do not understand is how can he say that it is OK to shoot something that they do not know what it is, because that is exactly what happens when you shoot +p+ ammo, you do not know what you are shooting. There are not SAMMI specifications for +p+ ammo, so what does "excessive pressure" mean for them? I like when he says "... in a case such as this there would have to be questions if the damage was done due to excessive pressure and if that excessive pressure was from factory loads or not ...".

[jocko]

wellfrom reading that stuff, I think they certainly left the door open to reject any claims towards warranty..

[tv_racin_fan]

Imma go against the grain.. Normally I would also advise against any +p+ ammo. BUT in the case of the FBLE I got no issue with running it. Just be aware it is a bit stouter than normal and it will wear on your handgun a bit faster which means you replace things like recoil springs a bit faster.

Still I run the HST loads myself and a non +p loading currently and I don't feel the least bit underpowered.

[Russ]

I would be concerned with +p+ of over penetrating.

Recently on my local news a homeowner tried to shoot his 9mm at a mouse in his kitchen and the bullet traveled through the wall into the bathroom where his buddy on the toilet was struck in the chest and off to the hospital he went. I believe I read a +p Gold Dot will penetrate in that hello stuff 13 inches. Next time you are looking at yourself in the mirror measure 13 inches from your chest to your back and see if 13 inches wouldn't give you heart burn. For me 195 lbs and 6 ft 2 inches 13 inches means the bullet would exit.

Sorry if it is little disturbing but all this talk about +p+ is a waste of money when +p may exit the average size person. I would be concerned for the guy sitting on the toilet in the next room shooting +p+ ammo.

Russ

[rstyshcklfrd]

Not an expert on ballistics, but I would assume a bullet would expand enough to not over penetrate. I still believe in some cases, it might. However, I think some solid tissue would stop it. You might be right though.

[OldLincoln]

My memory is a bit rusty, but it seems to me I read the Russian ammo is lower pressure than WWB and has caused some feed problems during break in. Shoot it if you like but be ready to shoot some WWB or better if you have problems during break in.

The initial break in is like shooting a gun with sticky glue in the works trying to slow down the slide from friction. Once smooth it's like butter only better.

[Kahrnavour]

Just finished my 900 th round in my less than one month old K9 Elite ... Love it, finally got use to the trigger, width and sights. Blowing out the target centers, did I say LOVE IT.

[rstyshcklfrd]

Great! I'm so glad to have read so many fantastic reviews and then seen so many people tell me I'm going to love it. My only concern is when I was looking at one at Gander Mountain(Although I didn't buy it from there), the magazine wouldn't drop. I had to grab it and pull, and even then it was still tough to get out. Should I be expecting this?

[zamboni]

Great! I'm so glad to have read so many fantastic reviews and then seen so many people tell me I'm going to love it. My only concern is when I was looking at one at Gander Mountain(Although I didn't buy it from there), the magazine wouldn't drop. I had to grab it and pull, and even then it was still tough to get out. Should I be expecting this?


It probably will stick...mine does. There is a fix for that posted somewhere in the tech section though. I personally don't mind pulling mine out.

[JFootin]

Great! I'm so glad to have read so many fantastic reviews and then seen so many people tell me I'm going to love it. My only concern is when I was looking at one at Gander Mountain(Although I didn't buy it from there), the magazine wouldn't drop. I had to grab it and pull, and even then it was still tough to get out. Should I be expecting this?

It is pretty normal. There are some easy fixes for this on the forum if you want your mags to drop free. The simplest one I've seen is to wrap some fine sandpaper around a mag and slide it in and out a few times, not really removing a lot of polymer, but just smoothing things inside the mag well. Might need some double-sided tape to hold it in place. Do it a bit, see if a mag will drop free, do a little more, check again until it drops free. Another fix is to squeeze the sides of the mag together just a tiny bit immediately below where the lips flare in at the top. Apparently, the lip shaping process causes a microscopic bulge there during the manufacturing process. This can be done with a vise or channel lock pliers. If you have a micrometer, you can measure the width further down and at the top, then squeeze enough to get the top to match the other measurement. Haven't yet heard of anyone ruining a mag doing this.

[TriggerMan]

I did the research, and pulled the trigger. Pun intended. I bought my first Kahr today: a CM9. It'll be here Tuesday!

Anyone have any input gathered from personal experience maybe?

Also, can I shoot +p+ in it?Welcome to the Land of Khar.

I wouldn't use +P+ in your CM9. With a barrel that short, many experts claim the advantage to even using +P is very small. Its hard to find good data for short barrel performance in 9mm. Personally, I stick to 124 gr unless I am shooting a full size gun. I'd use Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot.

[TriggerMan]

I would be concerned with +p+ of over penetrating.

Recently on my local news a homeowner tried to shoot his 9mm at a mouse in his kitchen and the bullet traveled through the wall into the bathroom where his buddy on the toilet was struck in the chest and off to the hospital he went. I believe I read a +p Gold Dot will penetrate in that hello stuff 13 inches. Next time you are looking at yourself in the mirror measure 13 inches from your chest to your back and see if 13 inches wouldn't give you heart burn. For me 195 lbs and 6 ft 2 inches 13 inches means the bullet would exit.

Sorry if it is little disturbing but all this talk about +p+ is a waste of money when +p may exit the average size person. I would be concerned for the guy sitting on the toilet in the next room shooting +p+ ammo.

Russand that's why they're called mouse guns! All I can add is "WTF"!?

[Barth]

Welcome to the Land of Khar.

I wouldn't use +P+ in your CM9. With a barrel that short, many experts claim the advantage to even using +P is very small. Its hard to find good data for short barrel performance in 9mm. Personally, I stick to 124 gr unless I am shooting a full size gun. I'd use Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot.

+1
My understanding is the PM9/CM9s are +P rated.
+P+ is over the top.
Full size 9mms, in limited quantity, for that hot LE stuff.
Asked Storm Lake about it for 40-9 conversion barrel (Glock G27/40)?
They said if +P+ meets SAMMI you're OK. I don't think it does...

The SAAMI pressure limit 9×19mm Parabellum is set at 35,000 psi
The SAAMI pressure limit 9×19 mm Parabellum +P is set at 38,500 psi
The NOT SAAMI pressure limit 9×19 mm Parabellum +P+ is set at 42,000 psi


In perspective -
The SAAMI pressure limit for the .357 SIG is set at (40,000 psi)