Full mag issue

[LLDJR]

When I load a full 7 rounds into my Kahr mag, then rack the slide, it jams and will not load the first round.

It will load the first round if I have 6 in the mag,,,, anybody else see this issue?

I use SD Federal Hollow Points

[jeep45238]

When I load a full 7 rounds into my Kahr mag, then rack the slide, it jams and will not load the first round.

It will load the first round if I have 6 in the mag,,,, anybody else see this issue?

I use SD Federal Hollow Points


Lock the slide to the rear, insert full mag, then push down slide release lever.

A lot of Kahrs will jam if the slide is rode even the slightest when sling-shotting the slide.

[Vinikahr]

When I load a full 7 rounds into my Kahr mag, then rack the slide, it jams and will not load the first round.

It will load the first round if I have 6 in the mag,,,, anybody else see this issue?

I use SD Federal Hollow Points
As per Kahr website:

Q. My firearm fails to chamber the first round when I pull back the slide and release it. What is wrong?

A. It is likely you are either failing to pull the slide fully back or you are riding the slide as you release it. We recommend that you lock back the slide, insert the clip, and release the slide with the slide stop. This will require that you carry a load in the chamber for self defense purposes. However, the passive safety system will prevent the pistol from firing unless the trigger is pulled, even if the gun is dropped. If you would prefer not to carry a round in the chamber, you may remove a round from the magazine. This alters the angle of the bullet and will allow it to chamber even if you ride the slide. :84:

[LLDJR]

Sorry, I carry the gun with a full mag and load when I want it ,

personal preference,,

If the gun cant be loaded with a full mag, on demand, then I guess I don't understand why it wont load this way.

[LLDJR]

Sorry, I carry the gun with a full mag and load when I want it ,

personal preference,,

If the gun cant be loaded with a full mag, on demand, then I guess I don't understand why it wont load this way.

My Glock 19 did not have this issue.

[Vinikahr]

I guess that is how the firearm was designed. :84:

[ltxi]

Sorry, I carry the gun with a full mag and load when I want it ,

personal preference,,

If the gun cant be loaded with a full mag, on demand, then I guess I don't understand why it wont load this way.

My Glock 19 did not have this issue.

Kahrs ain't Glocks. Kahr's quite explicit about loading from slide lock required for reliability. They're designed to be carried with a round in the chamber. Well broken in they usually respond well to manually racking the slide, though.

[wyntrout]

Sorry, I carry the gun with a full mag and load when I want it ,

personal preference,,

If the gun cant be loaded with a full mag, on demand, then I guess I don't understand why it wont load this way.

My Glock 19 did not have this issue.

If you're saying you carry with an empty chamber, then you're hoping that you'll have the use of two hands in every conceivable situation to rack a round into the chamber. We've had many discussions here on that subject. When you need a loaded gun the most, you may not have the opportunity to rack the slide and will be lucky to use it as a club, if for example, you are fending off a knife-wielding assailant with one arm... perhaps your strong arm. Situations don't always go the way you would like... think "Murphy's Law". One arm could be injured or to rack a round would attract attention and harm to yourself before you could present your weapon... and then there's the failure to feed.:eek: Lots of things are going on in desperate situations... your system is dumping adrenaline and there are lots of things that could go wrong. It would be nice to have a "loaded gun" starting out. Don't "Bet Your Life" on an empty chamber.
I'm not trying to be cute, but this gun is safe to carry with one in the chamber and will only discharge if you fully pull the trigger. There has never been a documented instance of a Kahr discharging when dropped.
Check this previous post and discussion on this forum:
http://kahrtalk.com/ccw-tactics-training/685-one-pipe-not.html
Wynn

[jeep45238]

Kahrs ain't Glocks. Kahr's quite explicit about loading from slide lock required for reliability. They're designed to be carried with a round in the chamber. Well broken in they usually respond well to manually racking the slide, though.

Yup, broken in it's pretty easy - just keep it nice and lubed and you'll be fine and dandy.

[Vinikahr]

There are lots of people that carry weapons that are afraid to use them, and not having a weapon in the ready describes that mentality. To that extend I want to wish you luck if you ever had the need to use it. You may be lucky and by waving the gun to a criminal that is going to attack you, will bring him/her into submission, but you can get those that will not be scare and will see you about to rack your weapon and takes that opportunity to victimize you, perhaps with your own weapon. It will be wise to seek more training with your firearms or you may be better off using a revolver. :smash: :84:

[LLDJR]

Vinikahr, thanks for the commentary, I will file away your eloquent pontification for later mediation.

[Vinikahr]

Vinikahr, thanks for the commentary, I will file away your eloquent pontification for later mediation.

Best of luck to you.
:84:

[jwr]

It will be wise to seek more training with your firearms or you may be better off using a revolver.
Even if you choose a revolver you may be in the same boat as carrying one in the chamber with your Kahr (depending on the model revolver). Just one long trigger-pull away from a bang. Unless or course you choose a SA revolver.

I've shot 1911's for quite a while and one of my main carry guns is a "1911-ish" Sig P238 which I carry "cocked & locked" in a pocket holster or on a belt. I've talked to a *lot* of DA owners who seem to freak out at the thought of carrying a gun cocked with just a safety on. I think it's a mental issue more than a mechanical one. It just looks scary to them even though it requires a push of the safety lever *and* a pull of the trigger to discharge.

I think the same is true for some, not all, of the folks that choose to carry a DA pistol without a round in the chamber. Carrying with a round in the chamber just *feels* dangerous to some and I think for a lot of those folks it's a mindset that can be easily overcome. I believe this to be the case because when I first started carrying my XD I was very cognizant of the fact that I was carrying a gun just a trigger-pull away from a discharge. At first this was much more worrisome to me than carrying cocked & locked, but it only took about a week to relax.

LLDJR, I'm not saying any of this applies to you. I'm just relating two different mindsets that I've come across while carrying concealed.

BTW, if I *was* planning on carrying a gun with a full mag and an empty chamber it wouldn't be my Kahr. This little sucker is not the easiest gun to rack :-) In fact, because of it's small size and stout recoil spring it's harder to rack than my XD, my P238, *and* my Colt Commander.

Regards!

[300WSM]

LLDJR, please read this link.

My CCW Shooting Encounter AAR - AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=988015)

[tnedator]

Sorry, I carry the gun with a full mag and load when I want it ,

personal preference,,

If the gun cant be loaded with a full mag, on demand, then I guess I don't understand why it wont load this way.

My Glock 19 did not have this issue.

After 500-700 rounds, my PM9 started feeding the first shell of a loaded mag, BUT even now (1,000+ rounds), if I ride it forward even a little bit, it will fail to feed.

To get it to load via a slingshot, you have to be somewhat violent with your racking of the slide. What I mean is that you need to pull the slide back in such a way that you keep pulling back and when the slide reaches the rear most position your hand is pulled off by its rearward motion, not you stopping and releasing the slide. If you attempt to bring it full back and release, you will inadvertently 'ride' the slide forward a bit and it will likely jam.

In my opinion. If you are not comfortable carrying one in the chamber, then I would say a Kahr is not for you. You don't want a gun that when you 'have' to rack a round into the chamber, that if your technique is wrong, you will wind up with a jam.

As an aside, having a round is perfectly safe if you follow proper safety protocols -- plus, you should treat a loaded and unloaded gun EXACTLY the same in terms of 'assuming' one is in the chamber -- meaning keep your trigger off the trigger until ready to fire, don't point it anything you aren't willing to shoot, etc.

[LLDJR]

one the pipe or not, a gun should load the first round without prepping the round.

on my cw9, if I slingshot the slide forward after holding the mag back, then eject intentionally eject the first round,,,,,,, the next round will not feed, regardless if I have 7 or 6 or 5 rounds in the mag.

this does not seem right to me, if this is how a Kahr is supposed to work, then I have to deal with it.

EDIT: After messing with this for a while now, I figured out that the Federal Hollow Points are digging into the feed ramp, so evidently, I need to change the SD ammo for the Kahr,, works fine in the Glock and M&P's

[tnedator]

If you want to use it simply as a range gun, then I think it is fine. If you are intent on carrying it for SD without one in the chamber, I strongly recommend you opt for another gun.

If your life is on the line, do you really want to be unsure if you can get a round chambered?

[wyntrout]

LLDJR, I had problems with the 135gr HS (9mm) in my PM9. I don't think that I had any problem with my K9, though. I tried CorBon 125gr +P ammo and I had a failure to feed with the K9 on the first magazine and one with the PM9 where the first round of 7 fired, but stove-piped while the next round was butting into the feed ramp. I have since polished both feed ramps with a dremel-like tool but I haven't been back to the range yet to see if I'm still having problems.
If I can ever get a deal on some, I plan to try the Speer Got Dot +P for short barrels. The brass jacket flows over the lip of the hollow point so that there's no exposed lead to snag on the feed ramp. It sounds good, anyhow. I want to get the 125gr version. You have to find something that works all of the time in YOUR gun for defense.
And, if there's one in the tube, THAT round is probably going to fire and at least have the bad guy ducking if you have trouble with any malfunctions. Plus, with one in the tube, you have that extra shot which may come in handy with these 5 and 6-shot magazines in compact pistols that most of us are carrying.
This gun is simple and safe. Don't give the bad guys another advantage by not having a LOADED gun... one that's ready to fire.
Wynn

[Vinikahr]

YouTube - Kahr PM9 Review - Won't Rack with Full (Kahr) Magazine. Full backup magazines can lose rounds. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2-L2_v3cc&feature=video_response)

It seems this person have the same issue as you and offer a possible solution to your predicament.

[LLDJR]

Vinnikahr, first thanks for the video, this tells me that there is an issue with the mag feed on my weapon, this sort of sucks because you would expect that the makers of the gun would make a magazine that would function well with their own gun. I never noticed this until recently and occasionally at the range, but I did not think much about it. This video addresses my 1st post question before the topic went off into "how to carry"

Secondly, I apologize to you Vinni for being sarcastic about your original response,

Yes, I agree that a person should CC loaded, I travel in sales daily and I get in and out of my car 10-12 times a day, some companies I go into do not allow weapons so I have to take the gun out of and leave it in the car, then put it back on etc, and since I am new to CC, I have been very cautious (not afraid) until my new D.M. Bullard (8 week delivery ) IWB Holster arrives, I plan on picking up a pocket or pancake holster to mount in my console so the trigger is protected when it is in the console.

At this point, if the Pro Mags solve the problem, then I will feel more confident about this weapon, the CW9 gets rave reviews all around the boards so I know it is a good gun.

I had a Ruger LCP that had no issues, I do have two M&P pistols a 9mm and a .40, and a Kimber Custom II .45, no feed issues from any, and to say that Kahr is not a Glock or M&P etc,,,, I am a ME for 33 years, so quality, design and function are what the Gun manufacturers sell, so the weapon needs to perform, IMO.

Lastly, thanks again for the help on the mag issue guys, and for caring about my safety, I will see what the Pro Mag and Hornaday ammo combo does for solving the problem,,, that is all, carry on:D

[jeep45238]

Keep in mind 1-3 mags is hardly a statement about the factory mags - you may want to call Kahr and ask them about an exchange since it seems like your mag tubes have feed lips that aren't stamped properly. If you have a dremel, pop on a felt buffing cone and put some polish on it, and polish the portion of the feed lips that engage the brass, and make sure to buff it off. You did mention that you had issues with that particular cartridge in your gun - this is a prime reason why with your self defense ammo you should load a mag completely and work the slide, making sure that it feeds and ejects that round from the mag, regardless how many are in the mag. It's GOTTA WORK - PERIOD.

That's fixed almost every feed problem on mags I've had that wasn't a busted follower or a weak spring.

Treat your firearm with respect, and keep it in a holster, and you'll be fine.









"If you're carrying on an empty chamber, you've got two empty chambers - one in the gun, and one between your ears" ~me

[LLDJR]

BTW, the specific round I use is

Federal Classic 9mm LUGER, 147 Grain Hi-Shok JHP

This is what the Indianapolis Police Department uses.

[jeep45238]

Just because they use it doesn't mean you have to - a good lawyer will easily be able to nullify ammunition and firearm choice if it's a good shoot.

Make sure it runs for your gun first, then worry about anything else. Pistol rounds poke holes in things, rifle rounds tear sh*t up.

[southgeorgiaivory]

You should read this thread...
KTOG Forum - FACTORY SD Ammunition testing... (http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1264461569)

[LLDJR]

You should read this thread...
KTOG Forum - FACTORY SD *Ammunition testing... (http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1264461569)

Wow, I wonder why the IPD uses this round:eek:

[jeep45238]

Why does IPD use it? Probably because people have a habit of sticking with names they know, regardless of how well it works compared to other stuff out there. Another is cost - that's the reason why my local PD switched from 10mm to 9mm.

We really have no idea how that guy was testing. What was he shooting into? If gel, what was the mixture? Was it wet phone books? Was it water? Was it dirt? Was it the air?

Pistol Cartridges (9x19mm Luger) (http://frag.110mb.com/)
http://www.brassfetcher.com/oldindex.html
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm


Check those out instead. You'll also find a bunch of valuable information about this stuff if you look up the Pierce Count Workshop and the Portland Wound Ballistics Report.





Pistol rounds poke holes in things, rifle rounds tear **** up.

[Rbrown7]

As per Kahr website:

Q. My firearm fails to chamber the first round when I pull back the slide and release it. What is wrong?

A. It is likely you are either failing to pull the slide fully back or you are riding the slide as you release it. We recommend that you lock back the slide, insert the clip, and release the slide with the slide stop. This will require that you carry a load in the chamber for self defense purposes. However, the passive safety system will prevent the pistol from firing unless the trigger is pulled, even if the gun is dropped. If you would prefer not to carry a round in the chamber, you may remove a round from the magazine. This alters the angle of the bullet and will allow it to chamber even if you ride the slide. :84:

Yes, I've found that this works with my PM9. However, if I then top off the magazine I get frequent FTFs. With a 6 round mag I would like to be able to get 7 in the gun but can't do so reliably.

[WinstonRomeo]

I always carry one in the pipe, any other way of carry means that the gun is not loaded. Think about that when you visualize a situation! When you talked about first round failure to feed you didn't mention which model Kahr you have. I have a P45 that was doing that and my local gunsmith and I found that the top round was hitting under the front edge of the breach face. A little tuning resolved that issue, but I still pull the slide back and release to get that fraction of an inch of additional clearance as well as a little more spring compression. My P9 is the only one that feeds reliably by dropping the slide stop to feed. My P380 needs to be fed the same way as the P45. Also make sure that you slap the mag into place to make sure that it locks in.

[jocko]

Sorry, I carry the gun with a full mag and load when I want it ,

personal preference,,

If the gun cant be loaded with a full mag, on demand, then I guess I don't understand why it wont load this way.

one can load with aa full magazine by hand racking the slide IF, IF they do it properly. In your case you are not doing it properly and now you wantot blame the gun for it. Kahrs are designed to carry loaded, as are most everyg un made. It is not a defense gun if it is not loaded..

It makes no sense tome to carry an unloaded gun and that is what you have with a loaded magazineonly. trust in yourself here to, the gun will not let you down and please don't compare a kahr to a glock or a glock to a HK, every gun has its quirks. I also would never carry a glock with no round in the pipe, Just IMO stupid. Yes yo can rack the glocks easier than a kahr, Kahrs are much smaller, recoil springs in kahrs are much stouter, combination of both cuase more difficulty in hand rancking. If you shoot your kahr enough and practice with it, you can hand rack with ease, but again, just carry the gun loaded. No one here wants to say " see we told you so" if something really happens and u need that gun NOW.

[Vinikahr]

one can load with aa full magazine by hand racking the slide IF, IF they do it properly. In your case you are not doing it properly and now you wantot blame the gun for it. Kahrs are designed to carry loaded, as are most everyg un made. It is not a defense gun if it is not loaded..

It makes no sense tome to carry an unloaded gun and that is what you have with a loaded magazineonly. trust in yourself here to, the gun will not let you down and please don't compare a kahr to a glock or a glock to a HK, every gun has its quirks. I also would never carry a glock with no round in the pipe, Just IMO stupid. Yes yo can rack the glocks easier than a kahr, Kahrs are much smaller, recoil springs in kahrs are much stouter, combination of both cuase more difficulty in hand rancking. If you shoot your kahr enough and practice with it, you can hand rack with ease, but again, just carry the gun loaded. No one here wants to say " see we told you so" if something really happens and u need that gun NOW.

Last time I gave advice to the OP got hammer for it.