Goodbye P380!

[Glockenspieler]

...and no more Kahrs for me of any caliber!

After a thousand rounds of .380 wasted and a replacement frame provided by Kahr, I managed to negotiate a reasonable trade despite full disclosure of my experience with my P380. The replacement frame provided by Kahr actually did function well for a few hundred rounds, (after a malfunction-riddled break-in, that is), but then started prematurely locking back (and it it was not my big, fat thumb!)

I fortunately came across this via another thread, but believe it a temporary fix, at best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50P7HCAATo
It may well be applicable to all plastic-framed Kahrs, as the premature lockbacks ceased after tightening the tiny torx screw under the slide stop, But I am not convinced after only 50 rounds it's a permanent fix. Pivoting a moving part on a screw driven into plastic seems poor engineering to me.

My malfunctioning P380 is no longer an issue for me, but I urge anyone depending on a plastic-framed Kahr to be aware of this issue.

And yes, "plastic" is just as correct as "polymer".

[Scoundrel]

It is unfortunate that you have limited yourself from an entire line of good quality handguns because of your bad experiences with one model that is known to be problematic.

But, you must do what you feel is right, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpIrlcZmXQ

[onegun]

...and no more Kahrs for me of any caliber!

And yes, "plastic" is just as correct as "polymer".


I felt exactly the same way after my P380 experience a few months ago, but.....I came back, just because the P9 fits my hand perfectly. I have had very good luck with Kahr K9s, PM9s, and now my P9. Several hundred rounds with no burps of any kind.

But.....so far, it's only a backup to my backup of my backup to my SIGs. I do enjoy shooting it and it has great accuracy.

[Jeff00042]

Glockenspieler: I had a similar experience with my P380 and got rid of it after 1400 rounds and two trips to Kahr. However, I've owned 5 other Kahrs that worked beautifully. My PM9 has been totally reliable with everything but Gold Dots.

[kahrlover123]

U should change the title like this "Goodbye P380 and Hello PM9"
That should work ;)

[Glockenspieler]

U should change the title like this "Goodbye P380 and Hello PM9"
That should work ;)

No thanks, I'm a firm believer in the old saying that starts with "Fool me once..."
"Good Money after Bad" also comes to mind.

My Glock 27's have earned my confidence, on and off duty, for almost 20 years, and various S&W J-frame .38's (now with CTC Laser Grips), since the 1970's. They will continue to fill that niche, so I have no need for a PM9/40 (or CM9/40).

On the bright side, not owning a .380 will remove any temptation to carry one.

But I do appreciate your suggestion, and, with one notable exception, appreciate the similar courteous replies from others here and on this thread:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10327

I again urge anyone relying upon a plastic-framed Kahr to see
gb6491's video (As a young officer I learned to listen to Marine Master Gunnery Sergeants):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50P7HCAATo

[kahrlover123]

No thanks, I'm a firm believer in the old saying that starts with "Fool me once..."
"Good Money after Bad" also comes to mind.

My Glock 27's have earned my confidence, on and off duty, for almost 20 years, and various S&W J-frame .38's (now with CTC Laser Grips), since the 1970's. They will continue to fill that niche, so I have no need for a PM9/40 (or CM9/40).

On the bright side, not owning a .380 will remove any temptation to carry one.

But I do appreciate your suggestion, and, with one notable exception, appreciate the similar courteous replies from others here and on this thread:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10327

I again urge anyone relying upon a plastic-framed Kahr to see
gb6491's video (As a young officer I learned to listen to Marine Master Gunnery Sergeants):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50P7HCAATo

I understand your position but it does not apply to me.
Glock is a good piece but here are my problems with it:
1) looks ugly as heck
2) too bulky for concealed carry

I have owned and used many pistols before and choose PM9 as my carry because:
1) it's the slimmest, sexiest looking 9mm out there
2) my PM9 gives me ZERO issue (I hit the range just about once a week with it).

About P380? I did own one before and sold it. I got lucky with that one and did not have many issues (once in a blue moon FTRB) with it. But I know a few friends who have issues with P380. My take on P380? It's not a reliable concealed carry (If I chose 380 as carry, I would go with TCP or LCP).

[Bill K]

What you describe does appear to be a weak link in the design chain and I believe I understand why you'd not be interested in another "plastic" Kahr. If I found myself in a SD/HD situation I'd like to have my Glock 26, Kahr PM9 then Kel-Tec P3AT with/on me in that order. However, I find myself most often with my PM9 - its kinda like the Goldilocks pick.

If I were a LEO or even retired LEO, as my two younger brothers are, I'd be carrying something with a lot more snot than what I have now. Getting "made" would likely just be an embarrassment for you, for me it could cost my my permit. Even with its limitations and design flaws functioning Kahrs make a great choice for civilian concealed carry.

Will you still be sticking around the forum or is it Adios?

[jocko]

kahrs can't please everyone, so best to just move on when ur not happy. Plastic, Poplymer callum what u want damn near every comany makes plastic today. Glock cut their eye teeth n plastic guns, brag on glocks if u feel good about it, some swear by them some swear at them. .

I try not to judge the Kahr P380 results as being the same for all kahrs which we certainly know is not true. Indiana state police I have been told is now into their second major return of glocks, now it is the Modl 17 giving issues, where as the Model 17 replaced their newly acquired Modl 22due to major issues.(over 1200 G223;'s returned for exchangte) It happens, and if u think glocks, sigs don't give issues, then ur dreamin. Course from reading some on the glock talk it seems the glock owners just will never acknowledge they have issues either. I love my G19, fokker just won't ride in my front pocket like my PM9 does, which I trust as much as my G19

[cgarcop]

I was just told by a Kahr worker that a bunch of new guns are coming out. .


Hopefully something with an accessory rail.

[kahrcrazy13]

get a tp45 so sweet ;)

[kahrcrazy13]

awesome looks like when they do im buying a new 45 and 40 cal lol!

[arloc1959]

Number of Glock's carried versus Kahr? By those in the law inforcement community? Khar can't compete. But man does the Kahr feel good in my hands. I hope Kahr can fix my P45.

[Bawanna]

Number of Glock's carried versus Kahr? By those in the law inforcement community? Khar can't compete. But man does the Kahr feel good in my hands. I hope Kahr can fix my P45.

They will without question. If you have the patience. It's darn tough to send a gun back and its even tougher if it has to go back more than once.
Clear information is very helpful so the guy working on it knows whats up.
If it doesn't get fixed it will be because you give up, not them.

[Big_John_1961]

Hopefully something with an accessory rail.

The lack of a rail is one of several things I like about the Kahr lineup. On the smaller models, in particular, like my PM9, they are suuperfluous and unnecessary. Keep 'em off, I say. They look like butt, too.

[jocko]

Number of Glock's carried versus Kahr? By those in the law inforcement community? Khar can't compete. But man does the Kahr feel good in my hands. I hope Kahr can fix my P45.

think kahr ever thought about competing in the glock field. doubke stack trums single stack all day in LOE fields. Off duty carry maybe they can give some competition but there are other good singler stack small guns out there to. Kahrs should stick what it knows besdt, single stack small as sguns, do um right and they will come to you.

Nothing surprises me anymore so don't think that we won't see a double stack 9mm kahr someday, or a kahr with a rail on it. They can't reinvent the wheel but they can put different hubcaps on it.

[jocko]

The lack of a rail is one of several things I like about the Kahr lineup. On the smaller models, in particular, like my PM9, they are suuperfluous and unnecessary. Keep 'em off, I say. They look like butt, too.

issues with a rail kahr as long as they offer the exact same gun without it. Looks butt ugly to me but I don't pout anything on my G19 rail either. Some wantthe rail and I can see kahr someday accomading that.

[Big_John_1961]

:D
issues with a rail kahr as long as they offer the exact same gun without it. Looks butt ugly to me but I don't pout anything on my G19 rail either. Some wantthe rail and I can see kahr someday accomading that.
I agree, jocko, offering the option of a rail would be ideal. I wish more firearm manufacturers did it that way, instead of forcing the rail on everybody. I really have no need for one and they do ugly up the gun something fierce.

[Bawanna]

It's TV. In the old days everybody had to have a cowboy gun. Ruger did really well with that need.
Now days everybody watches SWAT type shows so everybody figures they gotta have a headlight on their gun. Some people are easily influenced.

OK, OK, I got a Glock with a headlight. Guilty as charged.....but none of my real guns have head lights.

Imagine how many drop leg holsters are sold every day all over the country?

Most patrol type officers never wear a drop leg holster, what's a civilian gonna do with a drop leg holster? But they sell gazillions of them. No, I don't have one myself..................yet.

[jocko]

I think I know but what is a drop leg holster??? and can u explain the plus's of such a thing. Would I look obvious wth it if I go to church on Sunday with it??? Would it benoticable in a shopping mall??

Would I look cool with it on my trusty Harley??? Can I ourder it in Pink? Will 5 bucks cover the cost, with postage???

I need to know these things!!!

[Bawanna]

Without question it is totally you Jocko. I'm checking on the availability in pink but all the other questions are a ok. Unnoticeable in church, perfect on the Harley.

Makes for a faster quick draw kind of like the tied down guns of the old west which is where I really belong. I would have fit in there much more better.

Imagine having to send a telegram to tell me to shoot it like I stole it. Horse heads delivered by stage coach. Awww those must have been the days.

[Scoundrel]

Without question it is totally you Jocko. I'm checking on the availability in pink but all the other questions are a ok. Unnoticeable in church, perfect on the Harley.

Makes for a faster quick draw kind of like the tied down guns of the old west which is where I really belong. I would have fit in there much more better.

Imagine having to send a telegram to tell me to shoot it like I stole it. Horse heads delivered by stage coach. Awww those must have been the days.

I've been wanting one of those since I saw Star Wars.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/24800000/Han-Solo-Blaster-Drawing-han-solo-24818345-534-640.jpg

[JodyH]

After my frustrating P380 and T9 experiences, I've made the decision to no longer purchase any Kahr products from here on out.
Their quality control is just too erratic for me to spend the money that Kahr is asking.
I'm completely satisfied with my K9 and PM9 and won't be getting rid of them, but will probably be selling the T9 and CW9 to fund other projects.
Out of the 6 Kahr pistols I've owned, 3 had to be returned for warranty work.
MK9 had slide peening issues, P380 had major function issues despite multiple trips back and my T9 had the slide replaced twice for function issues and I'm still not confident it is fixed.
My personal experience has been 50/50 with Kahr products... that's not acceptable IMO.
In contrast I have 11 Glocks, 3 H&K's, 3 Berettas, 2 Walthers, 2 S&W's and 2 Rugers none of which have required warranty repairs of any kind.

[CJB]

Another shooter gives up on Kahr before Kahr gives up on them. A shame.

[JodyH]

Another shooter gives up on Kahr before Kahr gives up on them. A shame.
I have to ask, how many times have you had to send a gun back to Kahr for warranty work?

If you haven't experienced the frustration of owning a $750 gun (T9) for 6 months, but possessing it for less than 3 weeks or sending the same gun back multiple times for the exact same problems (P380), then you really don't have a clue.

The only shame in these situations should be on Kahr.
A shame indeed.

[Cokeman]

Ok. We all know now. Feel better? :madgrin:

[kerby9mm]

I have 2 Kahrs. Mk9 & Mk40. The 40 is absolutely perfect in function and assembly. The 9 needed some minor tweaking all at no expense to me. That puts my experience with Kahr qc at 50%. Out of m y two Sig p238's one needed the new flat recoil spring (which was mailed to me free) to perfect its reliability. Another (although very minor) 50% experience. My 5inch Kimber Eclipse is perfect in function and assembly so it is in some way luck or chance. Kahr is spending money to repair the guns that went out imperfect which digs into their profits and reputation. Maybe the lesson is being learned by them to *** it in the bud with their qc.

[Ed Carneal]

Maybe Kahr should consider just replacing the gun in the beginning instead of having the customer spend time and money shipping a weapon back to the factory which should never have left there to begin with. A malfunctioning weapon is Kahr's problem and should not be the problem of the guy who laid out his hard earned cash. I don't blame any of these guys for dumping Kahr after what they've had to endure. Shouldn't happen. If Kahr had exchanged the problem weapon for one which ran like it should, they'd still have a loyal customer. You paid a premium price for their product and you deserve a gun which goes bang everytime, plain and simple. At least that's how I see it.

[CJB]

everybody figures they gotta have aheadlight on their gun.... I got a Glock with a headlight....but none of my real guns have head lights.


Headlights.... I know some gals who have them, never seen 'em on a gun!

Seriously agree about real gun vs Glock - you ace'd that one Bawanna

[CJB]

I have to ask, how many times have you had to send a gun back to Kahr for warranty work?


Just once. My PM45 chewed up its front rail on the right side. I think it was mis-formed from the get go. Kahr replaced the frame completely - new everything. They also replaced the slide, with all new internals. So basically I kept my barrel, and slide stop. They also were nice enough to give me a new frame with a serial number exactly 400 from the frame I had - sort of cool. Did it all in less than two weeks, door to door (well... return trip to FFL's door). It did cost me $15 transfer by FFL. Zero issues since. So nice in fact, that I didn't hesitate to buy another PM45, used, and a PM9, used. The Kahr design is inherently sound, damn near elegant as some of Ruger's (Bill Sr's) designs.

[Cokeman]

Maybe Kahr should consider just replacing the gun in the beginning instead of having the customer spend time and money shipping a weapon back to the factory which should never have left there to begin with. A malfunctioning weapon is Kahr's problem and should not be the problem of the guy who laid out his hard earned cash. I don't blame any of these guys for dumping Kahr after what they've had to endure. Shouldn't happen. If Kahr had exchanged the problem weapon for one which ran like it should, they'd still have a loyal customer. You paid a premium price for their product and you deserve a gun which goes bang everytime, plain and simple. At least that's how I see it.

Seriously? Maybe car manufacturers should adopt this practice as well.

[Ed Carneal]

I am serious, but I believe an automobile has a few more moving parts than a Kahr. Not exactly the same thing. All they need do is produce a 600 dollar weapon which goes bang each time you pull the trigger. If they'd spend a bit more time with them at the factory, I'd think there'd be less problems and fewer unhappy customers.

[Scoundrel]

A lemon law regarding firearms might not be a bad thing. If it goes back more than three times for the same issue, then when it goes back the 4th time it gets replaced...

[Cokeman]

A lemon law regarding firearms might not be a bad thing. If it goes back more than three times for the same issue, then when it goes back the 4th time it gets replaced...

Yes.