Failure to feed; PM9 7 round mag only

[HDoc]

Interesting experience at the range today. Consistent failure to feed
only with the 7 round mag and always on the second round in the magazine.
The rounds ( Speer Lawman FMJ) just wouldn't chamber. Ejected
the mag made the second round #1 and no further problem with the new # 2 round or succeeding rounds. The regular 6 round mags were fine. This happened four times!
I seem to remember here that some folks had reported problems with the
7 round mags... Am I right? Was there a resolution. (Just bought 500 rounds
of the Speer, so I'm hoping)

[340pd]

Did you check the mag spring to see if it was facing the correct way from the factory? Some aren't.

[jocko]

here is the absolute fix for the 7 round mag issue. This works every time!!

Take the magazine and get into ur car and drive to your local river bridge. Get out of the car, Now Throw that fokking 7 round magazine as far as u can.

Get back into the car, Drive home. Have a cold one and watch NCIS

[MLESa7990]

Usually caused by an overly tight grip on the extension piece. Try shooting it with your finger off the grip extension. If it feeds, that's your problem. If not, I'd say send an email to or call Kahr.

[TucsonMTB]

If you want to fix it yourself, Greg's follower modification thread (http://kahrtalk.com/kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943) shows the minimum sanding you can do to your magazine follower to improve feeding. It is especially helpful with the longer magazines. It helps with feeding the first round but is also effective on subsequent rounds, in my experience.

http://i56.tinypic.com/34s0b5y.jpg

It's easy. The follower is replaceable, so is worth trying.

Alternatively, you can ask Kahr to exchange your extended magazine for another carry magazine. They are usually willing to do so. Many people don't see much value in the longer magazine . . . as Jocko so eloquently explained in his suggestion. ;)

[Kodiak]

Great thread! My new PM9 7 rounder does the same thing, although only on the first round.
TucsonMTB, your link does not work.

[cgarcop]

here is the absolute fix for the 7 round mag issue. This works every time!!

Take the magazine and get into ur car and drive to your local river bridge. Get out of the car, Now Throw that fokking 7 round magazine as far as u can.

Get back into the car, Drive home. Have a cold one and watch NCIS

I was with you up until NCIS. Criminal Minds is the S***

[Replay13]

I agree with Jacko "Take the magazine and get into ur car and drive to your local river bridge. Get out of the car, Now Throw that fokking 7 round magazine as far as u can." Or try one of the more senseable options, lol. :)

Actually I love my PM9, but my 7 round mag did the same thing. I'm no expert but the more rounds you put in the mag the looser they are up front from the bullet taper. Maybe its that or maybe the mag release arm bumps the round and it doesn't stage right, or maybe just seating the mag in the pistol messes up that first looser round, or a combination of everything. Maybe a high speed video camera would show something. But anyways it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out something is wrong with it. But the 7 round mag does work for some.

If you like the idea of having the 7 round mag I would try changing the angle of the follower, then take what you need off the top to get the round back up in place to feed right, there is better instructions posted here. All your out is the price of a new follower and a few mins of your time. If you don't like the 7 round mag and its not working right Kahr seems to be really good about exchanging it.

Good luck on your choice and keep us posted if you mod the follower.
James

[JFootin]

What we need for all of our guns to use at the range is drum canister mags that will hold 100 rounds! Two loads and your Kahr pistol is broken in! Then, put some SD rounds in the standard mag(s) and practice with it like you will carry it.... :rolleyes:

I know. Sounds like an idea right out of the fertile mind of Ernest P. Worrell. :crazy::w00t:

[Kodiak]

What we need for all of our guns to use at the range is drum canister mags that will hold 100 rounds! Two loads and your Kahr pistol is broken in! Then, put some SD rounds in the standard mag(s) and practice with it like you will carry it.... :rolleyes:

I know. Sounds like an idea right out of the fertile mind of Ernest P. Worrell. :crazy::w00t:

That would work for me, 70 rounds in cold weather was all I could handle the first time out with my new PM9. It seems I spent a LOT more time reloading, than shooting.

[HDoc]

If you want to fix it yourself, Greg's follower modification thread (http://kahrtalk.com/kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943) shows the minimum sanding you can do to your magazine follower to improve feeding. It is especially helpful with the longer magazines. It helps with feeding the first round but is also effective on subsequent rounds, in my experience.



It's easy. The follower is replaceable, so is worth trying.

Alternatively, you can ask Kahr to exchange your extended magazine for another carry magazine. They are usually willing to do so. Many people don't see much value in the longer magazine . . . as Jocko so eloquently explained in his suggestion. ;)

Might just try that since I was seriously considering Jocko's recommendation. I'll also e-mail Kahr and see what they offer.

[jocko]

oh I guess the 7 round mag is ok for range use, but IMO if you practice with a 7 round mag which is longer and lets that lonely finger now have a place to grabon to. that whenu go back to the 6 round flush fit, that you might indeed shoot the gun differently. Practice with the way ur gonna carry. For one more orund I just can't cuddle up to that butt ugly magazine. Buy a cw9 and then you hve a 7 round flush fit..

[HDoc]

oh I guess the 7 round mag is ok for range use, but IMO if you practice with a 7 round mag which is longer and lets that lonely finger now have a place to grabon to.. Buy a cw9 and then you hve a 7 round flush fit..
As much as I love my Kahr's and as nice as their LEO/Military prices are, my next 9 is not gonna be a Kahr. Variety is the spice of life and I'm not seeing
a need for another small compact in the same caliber. I just need to figure out if my next purchase is gonna be a Blue Label G30 for $460 or a Kahr .45
for lots more.

[jocko]

u got that right. u have the best compact 9 on the market.

[BrewerGeorge]

I have the same problem with my 7-rounder. It's been enough of a problem that I took the Pearce extension off of my 6-rounder until I have more time to practice with it and rule out the grip issue.

[OldLincoln]

Doc, I would really like to see that mag just like it is. If you would mail it to me I'll play with it and try to figure out for myself what folks are experiencing. I'll try a couple things I did to fix mine. I'll mail it back on my dime so you get it back fixed or not. PM me for my address if you are willing. It won't take over a week plus mail so say 2 weeks total.

[WilliamG]

I've never had a problem with all three of my 7-round mags in my PM9. I wonder what causes there to be an issue?

[340pd]

Doc, I would really like to see that mag just like it is. If you would mail it to me I'll play with it and try to figure out for myself what folks are experiencing. I'll try a couple things I did to fix mine. I'll mail it back on my dime so you get it back fixed or not. PM me for my address if you are willing. It won't take over a week plus mail so say 2 weeks total.

It is members like OldLincoln that make KahrTalk a really great forum.

[HDoc]

It is members like OldLincoln that make KahrTalk a really great forum.

ditto that. Kahrtalk does seem to be a cut above every other gun forum
in civility and intelligence.

[James J. Silva]

I just purchased my first Kahr. Its a PM-9 with XS Big Dot sights. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but am itching to do so. I am concerned about all the talk of FTFs with the 7 round mags, since I plan on carrying one or two as spares, with a six rounder in the gun.

I have an Inox Beretta 92 with two factory stainless steel mags, and they are so unreliable, I never use them. All my black mags work just fine. It seems like the bullets "stick" to the stainless. I have several black mags that I sent to Robar for an NP3 finish, and they are flawless. I'm thinking about shipping my two stainless mags their way for the same treatment. I'm wondering if anyone has NP3'd their Kahr mags and if it made a difference. When I ship out my two stainless 92 mags, I may ship out a 7 round Kahr too, just to see how it works.

[jocko]

humm, I did not know one could order any kahr with xs big dots sights on it....

quite worrying aobut something that asof yet u hve not even tested out in ur kahr. Most do work OK, negative nanny's don'
t get the job done here. I would not ship any kahr mags anywhere until you hve tested them throughly. Kahrs mags are stainless so they ain't gonna rust on u, why one would finish them other than maybe wanting them to be black, seems kinda nonsensicale...my two cents.

[James J. Silva]

The Big Dots are an interesting story. I asked a gun dealer to put aside a PM-9 with night sights when his next shipment arrived. He did so and when it came in, I headed up (over an hour drive) to pick it up. When I got there, it couldn't be located; it looked as if one of the employees sold it despite the fact it was put away with my name on it. He felt bad so he sold me a non night sight model (at a significant discount) , kept the slide, and shipped it off to Kahr for me. I know Kahr sells big dots, so I asked him to have them installed instead of the Trijcons. Two weeks later, my slide arrived with big dots, and I was a happy camper.


As for the Robar finish. I do NOT plan on shipping any Kahr mags out yet UNLESS I experience any problems. I meant if I do experience problems, I will ship ONE out as a test when I ship out my two Beretta SS mags, which are totally unreliable. I used to have a stock black finish Beretta 92. I sold it and put together an Inox Beretta with a Vertec frame and a Brigadier slide, and a bunch of stainless accessory parts (extended mag release, skeletonized hammer, etc...). Well, I live in Mass so only grandfathered hi cap mags are allowed, and getting stainless preban mags was not easy, so I decided to ship out a few of my black mags for their NP3 finish. They look great and work to perfection, so I plan on shipping out my two SS mags some day, or perhaps sell them since I have a ton of black mags anyway.


On a side note, any idea on how to change your user name?

[Doc Holliday]

I had a similar problem with extended mags on a Glock 26 I used to have. I believed that hanging onto the extended mag at the bottom put rearward pressure on it and caused it to pivot a little at the mag release, which changed the feed angle just a bit, enough to cause jams.
Yes, the Mighty Glock jammed up like this. When I went back to a standard mag I never had the problem.

[Tinman507]

James J., I think you have to do a whole new account. But since you only have 2 postings, you're not losing much.

[jocko]

I had a similar problem with extended mags on a Glock 26 I used to have. I believed that hanging onto the extended mag at the bottom put rearward pressure on it and caused it to pivot a little at the mag release, which changed the feed angle just a bit, enough to cause jams.
Yes, the Mighty Glock jammed up like this. When I went back to a standard mag I never had the problem.

glocks to, the world is indeed coming to an end, what next??? Obama has a girlfriend:D amnd Michelle is starting as quarterback for the giants tomorrow.:puke:

[JFootin]

Thanks Tinman. That's what I did.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.809081,-71.061954

Wow, James, now they know who you are and where you live! :eek:

Welcome to the forum! :)

[GKC]

I have an 8 round extended mag that I got through the rebate program when I bought a CW9. I ended up trading the CW9 before I got the rebate magazine...for one thing, the grip was just too long for what I wanted (pocket carry.) For another, I found a 100 Year Anniversary Colt 1911 I had been looking for, so the CW9 had to help fund the deal. So, I ended up with an 8 round magazine and no gun to use it in! :o

I was wondering what anyone's experience has been with these magazines, and if they are any different than the 7 round magazines (other than holding one more round.) If the problem is caused by the rearward pressure of the grip on the longer magazine, then it would seem that these would be problematic as well.

I am planning to buy a CM9, and when I do I'll try the 8 rounder in it to see. (I will carry the pistol with the 6 round magazine in my pocket, and use the 8 round as a reload or range magazine.) Until then, though, I was wondering if anyone else has one and has tried it in their CM9.

[Kiehtan]

Wow, James, now they know who you are and where you live! :eek:

Welcome to the forum! :)


Yeah, well, let 'em come!

Though, on a more serios note, when I figure out how to turn that bloody thng off, I'll do so.

[OldLincoln]

I've had Doc's mag for about a week now but just got to the range today. I haven't done anything to the mag except look it over for defects and load/rack it a few times. I had one nose dive racking from slide lock and it was a true dive locked up on a clean ramp. Wouldn't chamber even with a solid slap on the slide.

Today I ran the mag fully loaded 10 times. I had one nose dive like the racking as it was hung up also. The bullet favored the right side of the ramp instead of centered. I'll spend quality time with it at home before cleaning the gun. I want to get it to hang again and see what happens when I push the nose a tad to the left.

As the lips were spread greater than my mags, I'm going to tighten the top end a bit and see if the lips come in line. My hypothesis is the loose lips allow the bullet to slop to the right. If tightened a bit they should hold longer and align better.

It's like when you have a loaded mag and slowly advance the slide forward watching the round move off the mag, it reaches a point where it squirts out all over the place. But if you gently hold the round down until it naturally comes off the mag it aligns toward the chamber. The longer the round is guided by the mag the better.

[OldLincoln]

Well, Doc's mag is ready to go back. It's performing flawlessly in my PM9 with both reloads and HST+P rounds. I tightened it up and the rounds have less wiggle room on them and polished it just because I don't have anything else to polish. I'm not convinced I really fixed anything as it's isn't like a burned out bulb. The mag spring felt wimpy so I put in a spare new Wolf +5 which feels better. I ran 70 rds of reloads and 7 HST +P with nary a hickup. I did not mess with the follower other than clean it with the rest of the mag. Will go out tomorrow.

I wanted to get my hands on a misbehaving 7rd to see if it was something I could identify. Other than being a little loose and not even that muchI don't know for sure. If this works right in Doc's gun I'll say to those who have a problem 7rd mag to put in a Wolf +5% spring. If 10 folks do that and they all work I'd say that is likely the cause.

[Kiehtan]

Wow, James, now they know who you are and where you live! :eek:

Welcome to the forum! :)


Figured it out. It was a setting on the Tapatalk Iphone app I was using to access the forum.

[eltee]

OldLincoln, I had good luck with the Wolff +5% mag springs too. In my PM9 I was having a couple of FTF, but mostly would not lock the slide back when empty. The Wolff springs have the 7 rounders working 100% with standard ammo.

[HDoc]

Well, Doc's mag is ready to go back. It's performing flawlessly in my PM9 with both reloads and HST+P rounds. I tightened it up and the rounds have less wiggle room on them and polished it just because I don't have anything else to polish. I'm not convinced I really fixed anything as it's isn't like a burned out bulb. The mag spring felt wimpy so I put in a spare new Wolf +5 which feels better. I ran 70 rds of reloads and 7 HST +P with nary a hickup. I did not mess with the follower other than clean it with the rest of the mag. Will go out tomorrow.

I wanted to get my hands on a misbehaving 7rd to see if it was something I could identify. Other than being a little loose and not even that muchI don't know for sure. If this works right in Doc's gun I'll say to those who have a problem 7rd mag to put in a Wolf +5% spring. If 10 folks do that and they all work I'd say that is likely the cause.

I'm looking forward to trying it at the range. My wife has been complaining about all of the ammo boxes in the closet so the solution seems obvious. Also an excuse to bug the range/store owner about my order for my first Glock: A blue box G21 Gen4. I love my PM 9, but that full sized .45 is a pleasure at the range.

O.L.. thanks for all your help.

[jocko]

I have run trhe wolffs 5% plus springs in my 6 round mags since I got the gun, never tried it witht he 7 round mags but IMO it cannot hurt a thing. I notice no more energy used to load the magazine either. 5% is not alot,but in my little mind my thoughts were that on that last round, the mag spring is about at its espanced length and any extrta pwoer at that postiojn can certainly hep push that magazine follower up a tad faster to get good slide lock. Works for me and probably would even with the standard mag springs but I erred on the side of caution and went with the 5% extra..

[bege]

I bought a couple of extra mags and put pearce extensions on them. So I now have 4...the original flat bottom 6, the 7, and two sixes with extensions
The 7 round has a second round fail to feed about 1 out of 5 with Lawman 124 which I favor for practice since carry round is Gold dot short barrel.
Carry mags are the ones with extensions. I use the others on the range so I shoot a box with one reload;)