Hypothetical Question

[Scoundrel]

If you bought a gun for $150 out the door, and upon firing it you realized that you didn't enjoy firing it because the recoil was too heavy, and it didn't really have any advantages over other guns you already have, would you:

1. Sell it.
2. Buy a conversion kit for $50 plus shipping to convert it to a caliber that you would enjoy shooting.
3. Keep it and only occasional fire it, when you felt like braving the recoil.
4. Keep it so that you could play a mean trick on your friends by having them experience the recoil.
5. Other (specify):

[Barth]

If you bought a gun for $150 out the door, and upon firing it you realized that you didn't enjoy firing it because the recoil was too heavy, and it didn't really have any advantages over other guns you already have, would you:

1. Sell it.
2. Buy a conversion kit for $50 plus shipping to convert it to a caliber that you would enjoy shooting.
3. Keep it and only occasional fire it, when you felt like braving the recoil.
4. Keep it so that you could play a mean trick on your friends by having them experience the recoil.
5. Other (specify):

Two and three I guess???
$150 gun? $50 conversion?
This sounds like Fantasy Island Boss? Where's the plane?
http://i2.listal.com/image/2399422/600full-fantasy-island-screenshot.jpg

Plus if it recoils heavy there has to be a reason?
Too light for the caliber? What?

I don't buy anything without renting first.
So I wouldn't put myself in that position in the first place.

[Scoundrel]

$150 gun? $50 conversion?


Yes to both, not Fantasy Island. I'll give more details and you will understand (even if it isn't what you'd have done), but I want to see a few more replies first.

[Barth]

Yes to both, not Fantasy Island. I'll give more details and you will understand (even if it isn't what you'd have done), but I want to see a few more replies first.

I'm thinking some kind of derringer? Final Answer - LOL!
Well it's back to sleep, if I can.
Like X-Mas for me today - LOL!
Hope I don't get coal.

What ever predicament you've gotten yourself in, I hope it works out for you in the end.

One more option might be low power ammo???

[hss.strat]

Probably keep it and fire it often. Like using a weighted "donut" on a baseball bat during practice swings, or training in a high gravity environment (like I would if life were an Isaac Asimov novel). I would grow calloused hands as that of a man who high fives bobcats for a living.

[ripley16]

I'd sell it and go on to the next $150 gun on my list.

[steve666]

3. Keep it
until I could
5. Trade it
for something I wanted or until I could
1. Sell it
and at least break even.

[crazymailman]

3. Keep it
until I could
5. Trade it
for something I wanted or until I could
1. Sell it
and at least break even.

I would most likely do this.

[muggsy]

If you bought a gun for $150 out the door, and upon firing it you realized that you didn't enjoy firing it because the recoil was too heavy, and it didn't really have any advantages over other guns you already have, would you:

1. Sell it.
2. Buy a conversion kit for $50 plus shipping to convert it to a caliber that you would enjoy shooting.
3. Keep it and only occasional fire it, when you felt like braving the recoil.
4. Keep it so that you could play a mean trick on your friends by having them experience the recoil.
5. Other (specify):

What is too much recoil?

[jeepster09]

I would dress in black and slip down to the river at midnight and throw it as far as you can......

[Barth]

I would dress in black and slip down to the river at midnight and throw it as far as you can......

And I thought for sure your solution would be to Magna port - LOL!

[kahrseye]

I'd sell it or trade it. If I really didn't like shooting it I sure wouldn't be putting more money in it hoping it would get better. I am speaking from experience because I've already done this several times.

[Ikeo74]

I would throw my hip out of joint kicking my own ass for buying a POS for $150 in the first place. Then hang the POS on you gunroom wall as a reminder to never buy cheap guns again:7::hurt:.

[Longitude Zero]

Nothing is as expensive as buying a cheap product at a cheap price. First off I probably would not have bought it but after having screwed up by doing so if I dis not enjoy shooting it I would SELL it quickly.

[Garland]

I wouldn't keep a gun I didn't like. If the recoil was the only problem I would search for lower pressure ammo. If that is not available then sell. It's not like you are taking a $500 bath on it...

[jocko]

or port the fokker and really enjoy it.

[Bawanna]

I'm relieved. The minute I heard magna port I realized Jocko was awol for a few days. This is conclusive proof that your back at the crystal ball and all is right with the world. Well that's a bald faced lie right there but your back.

[Popeye]

I would probably keep it as a beater gun. Simply a tool that if it got scratched or dinged I wouldn't care. I kind of treat my Kel Tec P3at in this manner. I'm suprised the darned thing still works. I think a lot of that has to do with for about the last year and a half I've only use Dri lube on it. I'm a big fan of dri lube on semi auto. mouse guns that spend most of there life in pockets.
If you already have a beater gun then I'd try to make a trade for it and see if I could come out even.

[Bawanna]

All guns need love and affection. I'd keep it and try to strengthen and build up your relationship. Even lingering in the safe only to be held and fondled from time to time is better than a life in a foster home and having to spend the rest of it's life without love.

Think of the cheap gun as a cheap date, don't have to cost alot to be good.

There are a few examples that wouldn't fall in this category but I need not mention them specifically.

Maybe I should open a shelter for unloved guns?

[Scoundrel]

Funny how folks assume that a hypothetical question is not in fact hypothetical, but in fact a real scenario. But, in this case, it's a mixture of both.

Barth, I wouldn't really call this a predicament, and it's not a big deal either way. I mean, it's a $150 gun. I just spent $150 on a set of mud flaps for my Polaris RZR and I don't know yet whether those will work out either. I'm not stressing about either one.

So yes, it's a derringer. Good call. Specifically, it's a Cobra CB38BB. I also bought a Charter 2000 Dixie Derringer at the same time. I haven't fired either of them yet. It's kind of difficult to find a range that carries these, for pre-purchase testing - but at these prices, it would cost about 1/3 the gun price to do a range test anyway, so...

I can tell I'm going to really like the .22 Magnum Dixie Derringer, as long as it basically works. It smacks the snap caps pretty hard, and the action seems to function properly. I look forward to taking it to the range.

The Cobra CB38BB is the one I started this thread about.

I have read that some people find the trigger hard to pull. Maybe those folks didn't read the manual and didn't understand that you pull the trigger downward and back instead of just back. I don't find it hard to pull.

I have read that some people find the hammer hard to co ck. I have NOT found it hard to co ck. Sure, it's stiffer than some other guns I've messed with, but it's totally do-able.

I have read that some people find the recoil unacceptable. Therein lies the root of my hypothetical question. I haven't fired it yet, so I don't know if I will have a problem with the recoil. I was just thinking about to what I might do if the .38 Special recoil in this 14-ounce derringer is too much for me.

I can get a barrel kit for it that converts it to 9mm for $50, but that would probably also be too much recoil. I can also get a .22 Magnum barrel kit for $50. That would do the trick, for sure.

Note: This is NOT a thread about whether a derringer of any size is a good self defense weapon. I'm NOT interested in discussing that or reading about it in this thread. I bought these as toys, basically. My CM9 is my self defense gun.

It's also not a thread about whether there are or are not better guns to be had. There are plenty of other threads elsewhere that discuss that, and I'm not interested in hearing about how for only another $200, I could have bought an LCP 380. If I'd wanted to do that, I would have.

P.S. A gun forum that blocks the work co ck? Seriously?

[Bawanna]

Silly huh, can't say male chicken. Seems like we could for awhile but then it didn't allow it again.

Your kind of in the same deal as me and my free NAA 22. It's a cool little gun but even 22 it's obnoxious to shoot. Jeepster sent me some larger rubber grips that helped immensely but still a lot of buck for a 22.

Like you say it's a toy. They aren't range guns meant to be shot a lot so if you can handle a few shots proficiently out of it you can probably work it into the wardrobe.

And if not it don't take up too much space in the toy box either.

As a last resort there's always bawanna's home for unloved guns................

[OldLincoln]

I wonder why you would buy a derringer in the first place if not for self defense. If for self defense and you are proficient with it, why not carry the one that does the most damage?

[Scoundrel]

My friend "Shoggoth" beat you to it. He runs a home for unloved guns.

If I like the tiny 22 Magnum revolver enough, I might buy the 22LR revolver too, which is of course even smaller.

[Scoundrel]

I bought them mainly as toys, because they're cute. Call it retail therapy.

I don't know if I'd want to carry the 38 as a backup because it weighs 14 oz - the same as the CM9 (with no magazine or bullets).

I am toying with the idea of carrying the 22 Magnum revolver when I go to client sites. I'm not comfortable wearing the CM9 at client sites. Might be bad for business. But the 22 Mag revolver is small enough to hide more easily, and could still do some damage if someone jumps me between the client's door and my car. But that's not really where I wanted to focus with this thread. Plenty of other threads about that.

[Barth]

I have read that some people find the recoil unacceptable. Therein lies the root of my hypothetical question. I haven't fired it yet, so I don't know if I will have a problem with the recoil. I was just thinking about to what I might do if the .38 Special recoil in this 14-ounce derringer is too much for me.

I can get a barrel kit for it that converts it to 9mm for $50, but that would probably also be too much recoil. I can also get a .22 Magnum barrel kit for $50. That would do the trick, for sure.


Finally some details.
My S&W 342 ti weights 11.1 oz and fires +P 135 gr 38s.
It's not fun to shoot, but shoot-able.
I would think a 14 oz with standard pressure 38s would be fine.
9mm will likely kick harder than the 38.
If you choose 22 mag, Speer has a new GDHP Short Barrel specifically
for these micro mag guns. I would highly recommend that round.

That is all...

[Scoundrel]

I am interested in the Speer thing for the Charter revolver even if I don't convert the Cobra. Do you have a link? I can run some Google searches when I get home, but if you know exactly what to look for, that would make it easier for me.

BTW, Kudos to the forum admins for fixing the problem where I could _read_ the form on my phone but not post anything.

[Barth]

I am interested in the Speer thing for the Charter revolver even if I don't convert the Cobra. Do you have a link? I can run some Google searches when I get home, but if you know exactly what to look for, that would make it easier for me.

BTW, Kudos to the forum admins for fixing the problem where I could _read_ the form on my phone but not post anything.

The Short Barrel 22 mag round?
I'm at work and blocked from all things guns, except this place - LOL!

Just Google Speer Short Barrel.
There's ballistic data there.
Then search for sale to buy.
I think it's ~100 E from a 2" barrel?

[Bawanna]

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

[Barth]

I've though about the mini 22 mag revolvers.
But my 38 only weights 11.1 oz?!?!?!
It's only 13.5 oz loaded with 5 135 gr +P Short Barrel 38s.

For an air weight, deep cover, gun it's really hard to beat IMHO.

I think the 38 SB rounds are like 222 E from a 2" barrel?

[Scoundrel]

I've though about the mini 22 mag revolvers.
But my 38 only weights 11.1 oz?!?!?!
It's only 13.5 oz loaded with 5 135 gr +P Short Barrel 38s.
For an air weight, deep cover, gun it's really hard to beat IMHO.


The Charter 2000 "Dixie Derringer" is 6 oz unloaded. And I can completely cover it with my hand. And the "out the door price" from a local dealer who is not known for having the best prices but is very nice, was $211.

I found the Speer round (thanks, Bawanna). Pricing on that looks reasonable. I'll have to add those to my "experiment with these" list. Unfortunately, when I carted up a few boxes of 22 Mag at at CTD, I did not include these. So the shipping & handling for just one box of these would double the price.

I wonder if Cabela's carries these. They're putting in one near me soon.

Here's a direct link to the specs:
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/954.htm
40 grain, 1050 FPS at muzzle, 99 ft/lbs at muzzle

My order did include some CCI Maxi Mags (CCI makes Speer stuff):
40 grain, 1875 PS at muzzle, 312 ft/lbs at muzzle

I wonder if these measurements are apples/oranges, since one is short barrel, and the other might have been measured out of a rifle, or a longer barrel.

What makes the short barrel one more desirable?

Will the 40 gr 1875 FPS one be too powerful for my tiny little revolver? I guess I'll find out soon enough. The stuff is due to arrive tomorrow.

[jocko]

damn that dixie sure looks like the North American Arms mini revolver. have they been bought out or what.

If that hammer is a hammer block, then it is no for me. mY old 22lr NAA is about 30 years old. It has a half **** on it but that was all, just pull back and shoot. I uyst admit i have not shot that damn thing in 10+ years.

[Scoundrel]

They probably pulled a copy-cat on the design.

This one has a hammer block safety. It's supposed to have a "quarter-co ck" hammer position, but mine does not seem to. That reminds me, I should call them about that. They say not to use that as a safety though, because a little force will overcome the notch.

[Bawanna]

This confirms for me that the 22 mag has a lot more handle to hang onto than the standard 22 like mine. Mine has a little quarter co ck notch but I don't really trust it. I was told there are notches in between the cylinder chambers to set the hammer in for complete safety but I don't see that on mine either.

You have a much larger grip area.

And it does look like a complete clone of the NAA too.

[Scoundrel]

This confirms for me that the 22 mag has a lot more handle to hang onto than the standard 22 like mine. Mine has a little quarter co ck notch but I don't really trust it. I was told there are notches in between the cylinder chambers to set the hammer in for complete safety but I don't see that on mine either.

You have a much larger grip area.

And it does look like a complete clone of the NAA too.

I just called Charter. They told me that this model does NOT have the quarter-co ck, and that the manual is out of date. They thanked me for calling that to their attention, said I was the first one to notice. Mine also does not have the between-chamber notches. When the cylinder is between chambers, it can rotate easily because the hammer-block is keeping the hammer off of the rims.

It is worth noting that the Gunblast review of this beauty mentions the quart-co ck as if it is a real, existing feature. Maybe they had an older one, or maybe they read the manual and wrote the review without firing it. :)

[Barth]

The Charter 2000 "Dixie Derringer" is 6 oz unloaded. And I can completely cover it with my hand. And the "out the door price" from a local dealer who is not known for having the best prices but is very nice, was $211.

I found the Speer round (thanks, Bawanna). Pricing on that looks reasonable. I'll have to add those to my "experiment with these" list. Unfortunately, when I carted up a few boxes of 22 Mag at at CTD, I did not include these. So the shipping & handling for just one box of these would double the price.

I wonder if Cabela's carries these. They're putting in one near me soon.

Here's a direct link to the specs:
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/954.htm
40 grain, 1050 FPS at muzzle, 99 ft/lbs at muzzle

My order did include some CCI Maxi Mags (CCI makes Speer stuff):
40 grain, 1875 PS at muzzle, 312 ft/lbs at muzzle

I wonder if these measurements are apples/oranges, since one is short barrel, and the other might have been measured out of a rifle, or a longer barrel.

What makes the short barrel one more desirable?

Will the 40 gr 1875 FPS one be too powerful for my tiny little revolver? I guess I'll find out soon enough. The stuff is due to arrive tomorrow.

I think you're comparing 2" to 18" barrel velocities LOL!
Most 22 rounds are testerd from a rifle.
The short barrel round was specifically designed for mini revolvers.
It has fast burn, low flash, gunpowder.
To burn and get velocity from a short barrel.
Also the HP is designed to open at low velocities.
This is specifically designed for SD.

The SB round is rated at 1,875 fps from a rifle too.

[Scoundrel]

I think you're comparing 2" to 18" barrel velocities LOL!
Most 22 rounds are testerd from a rifle.
The short barrel round was specifically designed for mini revolvers.
It has fast burn, low flash, gunpowder.
To burn and get velocity from a short barrel.
Also the HP is designed to open at low velocities.
This is specifically designed for SD.

The SB round is rated at 1,875 fps from a rifle too.

That would make sense. the ratings I am looking at for the non-SB stuff do not specify barrel length. Makes it tricky to get accurate comparisons that way. Jerks.

[Scoundrel]

Getting back on topic to the hypothetical recoil issue and conversion of the CB38BB:

I had a concern with something I saw on the Cobra website. When I looked up parts for the Big Bore Derringer, the 22 Mag barrel is listed, but it says "THE 22 Mag BARREL WILL NOT INTERCHANGE WITH ANY OTHER CALIBERS."

I just called for clarification on exactly what that means, and here is the skinny: The other barrels can be easily interchanged by the end user by removing a screw and swapping barrels. But, if you want to swap the .22 Magnum into the big bore, it requires a frame modification. So you have to send it in to Charter for the work.

Here it gets a little fuzzy. The friendly and helpful lady I was speaking with seemed a little unclear on exactly how this goes, and when I pushed for details, she got less certain of her information, so take this with a grain of salt:

I asked how it worked: Would I buy the new barrel, send the derringer and the new barrel to them, and they'd make the mod for me? Or would I send them the derringer and instructions to change the barrel, and they'd bill me for parts and labor?

She said that I would send them the gun at my cost, and they would send me back a gun with a different serial number. So I said, you mean I'd send you my gun, and you'd send me back a different gun, with a 22 Magnum barrel? She said yes.

I said, that's downright neighborly of you, but I am a mite suspicious of how you can make that a sustainable practice. I mean, I have not fired this gun at all yet, but if I had fired it a bunch, and wanted to change it out, you'd basically replace my gun with a brand new one, for free? That seems too good to be true.

Her confidence completely shaken, she then told me I'd need to call back on Monday morning to ask exactly how this works (presumably when there are folks there who deal with this stuff every day and know the rules, rather than a very nice lady who is covering the phones on Friday late afternoon and is approaching the limits of her knowledge of company processes).

If the replacement is indeed free, except for the shipping cost of sending it to them (that won't be bad), that seems like a pretty good deal.

On the other hand, for another $150, I can get a "standard derringer" that weighs only 9.5 oz instead of 14, and is already chambered for 22 Mag.

So realistically, if the 38 special too much in this small package, I really should put it in the display case, or give it to Bawanna, and buy the other one if I want a derringer in this style.

I'd be more likely to buy another 5-shot mini revolver (maybe in 22 LR, for tiny factor) than to buy another Cobra two-shot in 22 Mag.

Bawanna, you wouldn't be interested in a trade, would you?

Maybe I'm over-thinking this. Maybe I should just get my butt down to the range and see what happens.

[Scoundrel]

Two more pics, specifically for Jocko and Bawanna:

[Bawanna]

That's totally different under the hammer than mine. You actually have a cross bolt safety which physically blocks the hammer. Mine is like an old Colt, just a quarter co ck notch.

I'm not clear what your suggesting for a trade here, but your right you should go shoot it and see what you think. If you don't like it we can chat.

OK reading it again SLOWLY, I think I got it. You want to lose the 2 shot derringer and get a 22 std NAA like mine. I'll have to ponder that. I never carry the NAA but it is a cute little thing. I was on a derringer must have for awhile but got over it before I got one. Probably good since I was looking at 45's (go figure) in Bond Arms I think they were. Imagine they would have been absolutely brutal to shoot.

[Scoundrel]

The thread is a little confusing because we're talking about two different guns. The trade proposition, if I don't like mine, would be your NAA .22LR mini-revolver, for a Cobra .38 Special two-shot derringer pictured below.

But yes, I need to stop talking and get down to the range.

[Bawanna]

Let us know how it goes for ya. Your local as I recall so a swap might work. Both would be a novelty item to me anyhow so if it's a bit brutal it wouldn't brutalize me often.

[jocko]

I just called Charter. They told me that this model does NOT have the quarter-co ck, and that the manual is out of date. They thanked me for calling that to their attention, said I was the first one to notice. Mine also does not have the between-chamber notches. When the cylinder is between chambers, it can rotate easily because the hammer-block is keeping the hammer off of the rims.

It is worth noting that the Gunblast review of this beauty mentions the quart-co ck as if it is a real, existing feature. Maybe they had an older one, or maybe they read the manual and wrote the review without firing it. :)

kahrs web site, showing sh-t they no longer make:53:

Ihave no issues withthge cross bolt safety, just anothger thing to push off when needed,. I can't say yea or nea on the quarter co-k thing either. Mine works aqnd it seems unable to pull through o it to and at that short of distance a bang thing might not happenb anyhow. I prefer thge old style but what ever. We sold many b ack in my gun days, as it was just so cute. I know of no one who really fired theirs in anger, let along give them any range time.It would certaily be a last ditch gun to pull that is for sure. I do like the rounded front sights though, as it surely can't hurt as bad whenthe BG takes it away from u and shoves it up ur ass...NAA was thinking, thats for sure.:popcorn:

[jocko]

Two more pics, specifically for Jocko and Bawanna:

I kinda figured it worked that way. "liability" is what brought that about, u can bet on that.:popcorn:

[jocko]

oh my I bet that 38 derring would sure ring ones bell. I know why they call it a 2 shot derringer. That is all one can endure in one outting!!!!

[getsome]

I once had an American Derringer DA38 which was a 2 shot double action over/under in .38 special and was pretty heavy but that thing was a little terror hand popper to shoot and if you shot it inside a cardboard box you might be able to hit the box but that was about it...

I bought it for the same reason, it just looked cool but after trying to shot the %*$@ thing I traded up for a S&W J frame which I still have...

[Barth]

Remington .22 LR 33 Grain Yellow Jacket HP - 863 fps
Remington .22 Win Mag 33 Grain Acutip V --- 910 fps
Winchester Supreme 30 grain JHP .22 Mag --1012 fps
Winchester .22 LR 37 grain HP ---------------891 fps
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6OQF5J3hjmc0uC1aFfPJrLc-cXpY7QWFgKXl60emYCkw-7BYC

[Scoundrel]

OK, I am back from the range. I have some expected results, and some unexpected ones.

The expected results:
1. The guns go "bang" and the bullets fly out the pointy end.
2. Derringers are for close quarters desperate fighting.

The unexpected results:
1. I like the Cobra 38 Special more than I thought I was going to.
2. I like the Charter 22 Magnum less than I thought I was going to.

Before going to the range, I liked the Charter more than the Cobra. Now I like them about the same amount. It's kind of leveled off.

The short summary is: I'm going to keep both of these. I'll probably carry the 22 Magnum when I want deep cover, and I'll probably shoot the 38 Special when I want to show it off to friends when we're at a range.

On the one hand, I confirmed for myself what we already knew: These guns are for close-up work only, when you don't have anything else to shoot.

On the other hand, I disproved some comments that others have made about the terrible accuracy of this class of gun. I won't be winning any competitions with these, but I can hit roughly where I want to hit on a man-sized target at 6 feet. That's good enough for me.


Also, you won't be hearing any more complaints from me about the comfort or accuracy of my Smith & Wesson 317 AirLite .22LR revolver. After having fired both of these derringers, the 317 was like a warm blanket on a cold morning.

After putting some .22LR through the 317, I also blew the dust off of my Astra A-75L 9mm semi-auto, and a strange thing happened: I used to feel that my Astra had a stiff recoil, and my Ruger P95, by contrast, had a rather "spongy" feel to it. Well, this time the Astra felt spongy. So I guess that tells you what the recoil on the .38 Special was like.

I thought I was turning into a wheel gun sort of guy, but now I'm thinking I really like how slide springs absorb a lot of that energy.


OK, now on to what happened at the range. Pictures below.

I started with the Cobra 38 Special, with the target at 10 feet. I used a standard silhouette target with an X in the center of mass and numbers all around.

The first shot went about 4 inches high, close to the 9.
The second shot went pretty close to the first.
The third shot made the first hole a little bigger.
The rest drifted a bit, but stayed within a few inches.

Then I tried to compensate for it shooting high, and adjusted my sight picture.
The next few shots had a similar grouping, closer to my intended target.

The recoil was pretty energetic. It wasn't exactly PAINFUL, but it wasn't comfortable either. After the first half-dozen shots, I put on a glove I had brought with me for that purpose. It helped somewhat.

I brought the target in to 6 feet and fired 4 carefully aimed shots, and got a better grouping than at 10 feet.
Then I did some shots where I spent less time aiming and more time reloading and shooting. My grouping was about twice the size, but still "in the zone" at 6 feet.

By this time, my hand was getting kind of sore, and this was perhaps not the best time to move the target to 15 feet and try for some head shots, but I did try. The result was not great. It's possible to get head shots with this gun at 15 feet, but only with great concentration, and even then it's not consistent. Or maybe I was not consistent. Either way, with a 2-shot derringer, this is not what one should be trying to achieve.

I fired 35 shots through the Cobra, and I can tell that I am going to regret it tomorrow. But, it did not break my hand. I can still type this, after all.

The trigger pull is pretty hard, but I can keep the gun steady when I pull it. It is difficult to pull downward as indicated in the manual.


Then I moved on to the Charter 22 Magnum. Again, I started at 10 feet.

The first 5 shots went pretty wide, but I think part of the problem is that I was recording video, and I was struggling with getting my fat fist with the gun in it into view of the camera. That being said, one of the first five rounds did keyhole.

This gun is harder to hang onto because it is smaller. The felt recoil is less, but it moves more in your hand.

Once I figured out what the sight picture was supposed to look like, I started to do better.

I moved the target up to 6 feet and got pretty good groupings, considering the almost nonexistent barrel. However, even at 6 feet, the bullets were tumbling.

There was a fair amount of un-burned powder, or maybe it was powder residue, in the spent casings. I've come to expect that of low-cost 22 ammo, but maybe this is an indicator that I should be using the stuff designed for short barrel guns.

I moved the target out to 15 feet, and tried for head shots. 4 of the 5 shots were "good enough". 3 of them were in that triangle they tell you is good for head shots. 4 of 5 key holed. One missed the head by a half inch.

The trigger pull on this one is fairly stiff, and it has to be because it only moves about 1/8 inch. It gets a bit tiresome/painful on the finger pad after a couple dozen rounds.


I did up a couple of short videos on these guns at the range. The editing is quick and dirty. Don't expect professional quality stuff here. Stay tuned at the end of the Cobra video for a slow-mo that catches the muzzle flash, and a cool hot air blast effect.

http://youtu.be/-H298k_moKY
http://youtu.be/vgjOXLPdBao

Pictures Below!

[Bawanna]

Good stuff. I'm surprised that 38 don't buck more than it does. Doesn't look like a lot of muzzle flip.

Decent shooting to for as you say virtually no barrel.

[Scoundrel]

The reason it doesn't buck much is that the barrels are in a line with my hand and wrist instead of above them. That's the concept behind the Rhino revolver, too. Of course that means it delivers all of that shock directly into my hand/wrist.

[Barth]

Off and on I have almost bought derringers in the past.
At a recent guns show there were 9mm over-unders for a little over $200.
I almost bit.
But the two shot 38/9s are usually about the same size and weight as my S&W 342.

Although my 342 at 11.1 oz makes +P 38 feels like 357 Magnum.
The little guns does carries 5 rounds (13.5 oz loaded).
Has a glassy DOA trigger.
Shoots POA at 7 yards.
And the ergonomics are excellent.

It's my perfect deep cover pocket pistol.

As we speak cheaperthandirt has CM9s for $351 again.
I have actually entered my CC and then canceled on that one.

But my pocket is already full

The Evil Twins - sort of... LOL
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo41/e8/16/7bf82d37c83a__1321682751000.jpg

[Scoundrel]

The Cobra manual specifically says not to use +P ammo. I accidentally bought a box of it. What do you think?

[Bawanna]

The Cobra manual specifically says not to use +P ammo. I accidentally bought a box of it. What do you think?

I wouldn't shoot it myself. Find somebody with a Blackhawk or a 357 and let them shoot it.

[jocko]

probably wil lbe ok but it isn't what we think, it is what u think?? see if u can take the box back.

[Barth]

The Cobra manual specifically says not to use +P ammo. I accidentally bought a box of it. What do you think?

Married?
Tired of living?
Thinking you can do without that pesky gun hand?

[jocko]

Married?
Tired of living?
Thinking you can do without that pesky gun hand?

let the wife shoot it:D:D

[Scoundrel]

:) OK, point taken. It's just that the manuals for these things contain lots of little disclaimers that the gun community tends to scoff at. Same with my ATVs. It says not to drive in water more than half the wheel height. Yeah, whatever.

But this one I will pay attention to. I think I can swap someone the 50-round box of +Ps for something else.

BTW, I have an updated range report.

It's ironic; I started this thread because I was not sure how well the Cobra .38 derringer was going to work out for me. But the more I learn about these two guns, the better the .38 Special looks in comparison to the .22 Magnum. In fact, the .22 Magnum is starting to look kinda bad.


Anyway, I went to the range with my friend today to show him the derringers and let off a little steam with my M&P 15/22. After about 6 rounds with the .38 Special he was "done" with it. He set it on the bar and backed away from it. :D I put another 10 rounds or so through it, and it continues to perform consistently. I won't be shooting it a lot, but I can trust it to go BANG! when I point it and pull the trigger.


The .22 Magnum turned out quite different.

I had some ammo left over from the first box I bought for it, which was Winchester X22M - 40 grain FMJ. We fired most of that first. A total of 45 rounds of that stuff went through the derringer with no problems.

We switched to some Hornady 30 grain V-Max 2200 fps rounds (item #83202), and found that it had a lighter recoil, but after 10 rounds, we found that the cylinder was getting a little harder to move. We found that the casings were bulging backward toward the frame.

Another problem began to happen as well. With each shot, the cylinder base pin was dislodging itself and traveling forward about 1/8th inch.

We tried 5 rounds of Federal Game-Shok 50 Grain JHP (757) and experienced the same problems.

So we went back to the last few rounds of the Winchester X22M, which had functioned flawlessly for about 40 rounds. The cylinder base pin was still dislodging, and this time, something strange happened. I was standing behind the shooter watching, and I saw a flash of light _through the cylinder_ as well as in front of the gun when he fired. My friend stopped firing and told me that the cylinder was still getting harder to rotate. So we opened it up to check things out. We found that the 2nd to last fired round had a square hole in the back of the casing, and that ALL of the casings had bulged.

We also noted that the cylinder has taken some damage from hammer strikes as a result of the cylinder not rotating properly when the casings started to bulge.

We stopped shooting this gun and put it away.


I will be contacting Charter 2000 about this tomorrow. The manual does state that they will be happy to repair or replace any worn or broken parts without charge.

I am not sure how problems of this nature can be repaired without a full replacement gun. The barrel and frame are all one piece, and the cylinder is damaged as well.

I wonder what the expected lifespan of a gun of this type is, and what the expected lifespan of an equivalent .22LR is. I'll ask them about it tomorrow.
The manual explicitly states that the revolver will "safely handle high velocity .22 ammunition".

The manual implies, when it talks about periodic cleaning and inspection for wear, that it should last more than 67 rounds.

I read through the manual again, carefully looking for anything that I might have missed or done wrong that is warned against in there, but I did not find anything.

I suspect that the .22 Magnum round is just too powerful for a gun of this size, and I will suggest to them that I would be happy to have a .22LR version of this gun instead, if they want to swap it.

If they go for it, I will probably put about 25 rounds through it to make sure it's working properly, and then stop firind it, and start putting it in a pocket on those rare occasions when I want _something_ with me, but don't feel comfortable wearing the CM9.


Then I'll have to find something to do with all of this .22 Magnum ammo I bought. Maybe a PMR30...

[Scoundrel]

In reviewing the damage that I will be reporting to Charter tomorrow, it occurs to me that the steel appears to be VERY soft. I mean, that the ball/socket detent would show that much wear from removing and re-inserting that pin perhaps 25 times seems excessive. And, that just two errant hammer strikes should make indentations that deep in the cylinder also seems wrong. Is the NAA version of this revolver made of tougher stuff?

[Scoundrel]

Update: I sent an e-mail last night with a description and photos. Today I spoke with a customer service person, who was able to fish that e-mail out of her spam filter and look at it. Upon reviewing the information, she decided to send me a pre-paid shipping label. I just need to box it up and drive it over to the local FedEx warehouse.

We briefly discussed the expected lifespan of this gun, but she was not able to comment on that. She did, however, readily agree to swap this one for a .22LR version.

When I receive the replacement, and have run a few rounds through it for basic functionality testing, I'll call them again, ask for a technician, and discuss longevity concerns with them.

[jocko]

the c ylinder is now out of time, I would say the cylinder pin moving outward is causing this. I soldhundreds of NAA back in my days and we did have a few of them that did the exact same thing. NAA always took care of them promptly to. It was not really an issue either (unless it happened to you) but that indentation under the barrel for some of the guns was just not deep enough andlocted correctly to hold that little ball indent in place I just never knoew of anyone ever reporting to me tha tthey evert shot even 50 rounds through any NAA. We sold very very few 22 mags though, mostly all 22lr AND BACK then stinkers were the ammo of choice. I have had one for problaby 25+ years and quite honestly have not shot it 50 tmes, probably truth be known less then 25 rounds. It does go bang, just not the kind of gun I could train with let alone hit jack sh-t with it. It beats carrying a rock, but IMO not by much..

[TheTman]

I'd sell it or get the conversion kit. Would depend how much I like the gun overall. If it was butt ugly, I'd sell it, if it was a good looking piece, I'd probably convert it.

[Scoundrel]

the c ylinder is now out of time, I would say the cylinder pin moving outward is causing this. I soldhundreds of NAA back in my days and we did have a few of them that did the exact same thing. NAA always took care of them promptly to. It was not really an issue either (unless it happened to you) but that indentation under the barrel for some of the guns was just not deep enough andlocted correctly to hold that little ball indent in place I just never knoew of anyone ever reporting to me tha tthey evert shot even 50 rounds through any NAA. We sold very very few 22 mags though, mostly all 22lr AND BACK then stinkers were the ammo of choice. I have had one for problaby 25+ years and quite honestly have not shot it 50 tmes, probably truth be known less then 25 rounds. It does go bang, just not the kind of gun I could train with let alone hit jack sh-t with it. It beats carrying a rock, but IMO not by much..

I guess I'm weird in that I like to actually SHOOT my guns. When this one gets back (or its replacement) I'll probably shoot a little bit to make sure it works, and then not much at all beyond that.