cwp kills robber

[kahrnut1]

a spartenburg sc cwp holder was eating at waffle house when 2 armed robbers entered & demanded money. the cwp pulled his gun & told the bgs to drop weapons 1 did not & he shot & killed him. the sheriff commended him on his actions & said no charges would be filed against cwp.

[Thunder71]

That's a good outcome and all, but definitely beyond how far I would have gone based on Minnesota laws.

[1radman]

Here's the story:
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/298946/28/South-Carolina-Waffle-House-customer-shoots-kills-robbery-suspect

SHEEPDOG!

I can honestly say i don't know if I would have done the same. If innocent people were about to be shot? yeah probably...as soon as he turned his weapon towards me? Absolutely...I'm emtyinit!

[CJB]

Good Lord!

I hope they covered the cost of his breakfast, and gave him some free coffee too!~


Only thing I did at breakfast, was once I Heimlich maneuvered (as best I could) a very old lady, in a wheelchair, who was choking. The staff asked me, being rather large, to do it. I did. A huge chunk of home fry flew across the dining room and landed on some poor sods plate. I remember him holding it up in the air after... the things you remember! Anyway, I heard a very distinct "crack" when I grabbed the old gal. She was breathing ok, but complaining of pain in her sides at her ribs. Oops. So... I laid ten bucks on the counter and beat feat before the paramedics or cops arrived. The home made cornedbeef hash was good that Sunday too... @#$@$ didn't get to finish it!

[kahrnut1]

i'm not sure if the details of this shooting will be revieled. but the da no billed it. so there must have been at least a threat to kill.

[CJB]

In Fl. its very legal to come to the aid of another who you believe to be in danger. Cant say for that locale.

[tv_racin_fan]

Far to often the bad guy comes in and says gimmie the money, then when the good guy gives him the money the bad guy shoots anyway.

I honestly do not know what I would do but my family has discussed it. WE intend to wait and see how the bad guys act, if they seem to only want the cash they can have it but if it looks like they may shoot we intend to go into action.

[kahrseye]

I agree with the wait and see philosophy. Many bgs just want the money and leave. If I inject myself into the situation I cannot control how the bgs are going to react and may cause an innocent bystander to be harmed.

[skiflydive]

Good Lord!

I hope they covered the cost of his breakfast, and gave him some free coffee too!~


Only thing I did at breakfast, was once I Heimlich maneuvered (as best I could) a very old lady, in a wheelchair, who was choking. The staff asked me, being rather large, to do it. I did. A huge chunk of home fry flew across the dining room and landed on some poor sods plate. I remember him holding it up in the air after... the things you remember! Anyway, I heard a very distinct "crack" when I grabbed the old gal. She was breathing ok, but complaining of pain in her sides at her ribs. Oops. So... I laid ten bucks on the counter and beat feat before the paramedics or cops arrived. The home made cornedbeef hash was good that Sunday too... @#$@$ didn't get to finish it!

If you do CPR (Heimlich included) properly you're gonna break ribs. Period. End of story. They should have told you that in class.

[CJB]

I didn't take class! I grabbed the lady under her rib cage and pulled up and in with a good amount of force... figuring any air left in there was gonna expel the obstruction.

I heard later...she was ok... but I didn't wanna talk to anybody official!

[thebrasilian]

I live in SC and we have Castle which states that you have the right to be where you are and intervene if someone can not defend themselves.

If you noticed in the article the 19 year old perp did point the gun at the CWP holder. Reason to shoot.

Also, there are a lot of information about robberies that don't end well when they ask people to go to the back room.

[HDoc]

I agree with the wait and see philosophy. Many bgs just want the money and leave. If I inject myself into the situation I cannot control how the bgs are going to react and may cause an innocent bystander to be harmed.

When they ordered the customers to the floor, they involved the shooter.
Lying face down wouldn't exactly allow you to draw your weapon if the situation turned sour.
I agree if they hit the register and fled, I'd not intervene.

[Armybrat]

I agree if they hit the register and fled, I'd not intervene.

Same here, it's only paper fiat money anyway.

But if the perp looks like he's gonna get crazy.....

[OldLincoln]

I think this is a good scenario to consider. Probably general consensus to leave alone if they only robbed the place, but what would you do if ordered on the floor and had the opportunity to draw unseen. We know what went right, but what could have gone wrong and what consequences likely to follow? I'm all for defending those needing defending, and ONLY trying to raise thoughtful discussion. I believe these th9ngs need to be considered before becoming a plan.

1. What if the perp that pointed his gun at the CCW just turned and fired a couple shots hitting customers before being dropped, or the CCW missed?

2. ?

[kahrseye]

Same here, it's only paper fiat money anyway.

But if the perp looks like he's gonna get crazy.....

My philosophy is very simple. I'm not paid to protect a store or bank that I just happen to be in when it's getting robbed. They can take anything they want, I'm sure it's insured. That doesn't mean I don't have my gun ready to go if things get ugly. They hurt someone or look like it's going to escalate then I would feel compelled to step in. I just don't think pulling out my gun and telling them to freeze would be the way to go...cuz you can't predict how they are going to react. You may get someone shot because they (bg) looses it. :boink:

[skiflydive]

I didn't take class! I grabbed the lady under her rib cage and pulled up and in with a good amount of force... figuring any air left in there was gonna expel the obstruction.

I heard later...she was ok... but I didn't wanna talk to anybody official!

Well done. Saved her life no doubt. Congratulations!

[kahrseye]

[QUOTE=OldLincoln;127106]

1. What if the perp that pointed his gun at the CCW just turned and fired a couple shots hitting customers before being dropped, or the CCW missed?

Exactly.

[jocko]

I carry because I am not scared, not because I am, scared, but I would sit and watch any hold up scenario and I certainly would not be the instigator or further action until I felt like my life or the life of whom I was with was in dire danger. Pulling that gun certaily changes things with the BG, now he has to shoot because ur gonna shoot, I do agree most robberies are robberies. No doubt if they felt thgat business was well armed or civili9ans were in there armed, I would think they would opt to go down the street and try there. To many scenarios' really to say what happened here or what we would have done, but for me my first priority ismy safety and not the fellas 5 tables away from me. U know we are all assuming to we are DEAD SHOTS and that we ain't gonna miss the BG either, so what happens now if we shoot and miss and hit a couple of people or some child in a mothers arms. Man when u pull that gun out alot of things falls on ur shoulders and the word HERO might just not be one of them. If no one got hurt in this scenario, then it is a super thing. I just don't want to have to try to defend myself in a liability civil court or maybe even in criminal court over a matter where I thought I was going to be the Long Ranger here and save the people and ended up shooting innocent people. Just not sure in todays real world where they will pin a badge on u for shooting a civilian. Just my two cents but scenario's are just that scenarios and they very seldom end the way we "pretend"
they do. My dad used to say to me when I was a teen and going out on a date, "Son keep it in ur pants". I feel that way today with my PM9.:israel:

I was armed robbed over 35 years ago in my gun business, they wanted money, they got the money, I pissed my pants big time, other than that no harm no foul., I go to a ballgame to watch, not to play:001_tt2:

[Doc Holliday]

I carry because I am not scared, not because I am, scared, but I would sit and watch any hold up scenario and I certainly would not be the instigator or further action until I felt like my life or the life of whom I was with was in dire danger.

I absolutely agree.

I don't CCW to play 'Waffle House Cop' or protect their cash, they have insurance for that. Let the robber take the cash and leave. They charge too much for that slop they serve anyhow. I'm not going to force a shootout and have someone else get killed but I would be prepared. Now, if the BG decides to hang around and take hostages or starts shooting first, it's on.

[kahrseye]

'Waffle House Cop'

I like that. I think I'll have a badge made with that on it and show to all my friends. Don't worry Doc, I'll give you the credit.. :001_tt2:

[jocko]

that is kind of a catchy phrase. I kinna like that.

[Rodenmg]

Here's something to think about if you live in Texas. I just took my CHL course a few weeks ago. We had a lawyer give us a talk about what happens after you pull the trigger. Here in Texas the DA no longer has the power to dismiss what he thinks is a case not worth going to trial. Every case of shooting must go before the Grand Jury. If it does you will need legal representation and that will cost you an average of $10,000. Even if you did everything right it's going to cost you big bucks. Sure made me think about how much I want to get involved if it's not absolutely necessary.

[Tinman507]

You're under arrest for a violation of the Felton-Sibley Act of 1934: Serving Grease without a license.

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/WaffleHousePolice.png

[Armybrat]

I like that. I think I'll have a badge made with that on it and show to all my friends. Don't worry Doc, I'll give you the credit.. :001_tt2:

A badge in the shape of a waffle? :D

[Rodenmg]

:D

http://home.earthlink.net/~mikeroden/images/iPad-033.jpg

I know, a little bold for a noobie, but I couldn't resist. :)

[jocko]

this forum is just to full of talented people rodenmg, for a newbe it is down right super.

[tv_racin_fan]

"1. What if the perp that pointed his gun at the CCW just turned and fired a couple shots hitting customers before being dropped, or the CCW missed?"

I'd be upset because I didn't fire fast enough.

I don't believe I would have announced my intention tho. See for me the part about telling em to get on the floor or move to the back room is where I act. Not announce my intentions to act. "Announcing my intention takes away my tactical advantage of surprise."

In a situation where bad guy comes in and says gimmie the money to clerk at convienence store or waiter/waitress at Waffle House my intention is to sneakily draw my handgun and watch. Maybe even move to clear my shot IF possible. IF it smells like he is going to shoot I have to clear my shot before I can shoot. I'll cross the bridge of missing or the bad guy shooting and someone else getting hurt after I try my best to make sure no one gets hurt. Hopefully the wife and or son is on the same page at the same time and one of us gets the bad guy before anyone gets hurt and we don't miss. I do not think I could live with myself if I sat there and someone got hurt BEFORE I acted IF I felt like I could have acted and prevented it.

Of course I have no real clue how I will act.. I may well cower in the floor in a puddle. BUT I carry because I believe I might be able to act and prevent anyone from getting hurt.

Jocko I totally agree that I do not carry to protect those who are not my family or those not willing to defend themselves. Still I feel like it is my moral duty to protect who I can when I can, LIFE not PROPERTY.

[jocko]

no argument from me, just toto many scenario's and IMO I doubt unless one is trained in shooting opeople alot where it is a normal as scratching ones ass, then no one is ever going to now how they will act or react.

I in my little mind who was armed robbed in my business years ago, I have no clue what went through my mind when the "scenario" actualy went down. It happens fast,ur totally unprepared and had the two guys inteded to klll me I would have been dead,no ifs ands or butts about it. I certainly did not provoke once they pointed weapons at me. the John Wayne, Lone Ranger,HopalongCassidy,
gene Audtry, Dirty harry endings never entered my mind. but I can tell you this much all these years later I can recall every second...

Train alot, get good close, and then pray to God u never have to be involved in any of the scenarios we read and talk about:israel: