Crossbreed MiniTuck issues...

[burns]

Hi everyone,

I just got my Crossbreed in and I've worn it for a couple of days. So far, I like the way the holster feels and how it conceals, including when it is tucked. However, the retention was piss poor as it was shipped.

There is a letter with the holster describing how some folks like the holsters "real tight" and some like it "almost zero" in terms of retention, and that they shoot for the middle ground. I would call the way it was shipped "zero" retention.

If I just held the thing slightly upside down with a gun in it, the gun slips out with no resistance at all.

I know that retention increases when you wear the holster...it was still really poor. I don't know if mine just slipped through QC or if this is "normal", but I don't know anyone (and I have lots of gun friends) who likes a holster with basically zero retention. It almost looks as if they just used too big of a piece of kydex material for the gun.

So, I followed the directions on the letter and used a hairdryer to make the kydex a bit workable. After about the first half hour of work (finding a hair dryer, getting damp rags, shooting the kydex and working it etc.) I got the thing a little tighter around the trigger guard and ejection port. Then, I noticed that my ejection port was shaving off tiny pieces of kydex on each draw, and they were finding their way into the port and around the barrel. So, I went back to work.

This thing is still a bit shady. Considering that retention screws are not part of this design, it's really imperative that the kydex is well fitted.

Has anyone else had similar problems? I'm thinking of sending it back to Crossbreed so they can adjust it but I hate to part with it again because it is my only holster for my new PM9.

I didn't come here to complain and aside from the retention issue this seems to be a great holster, but the retention issue is pretty huge. I'm just curious to know if anyone else has had similar impressions and if mine is normal, or if it was shipped defective.

Best regards,

[Vinikahr]

Understandable> But did you contacted Crossbreed?

[burns]

Yes, the rep says that "turning our holsters upside down is not a valid test for determining retention." I explained that I understand that but that I am only pointing out that this wasn't a "middle ground" between no retention and very tight retention; there was NO resistance. She repeated that "turning our holsters upside down is not a valid test for determining retention."

I was just using the "upside down" example to demonstrate that there was literally no retention aside from gravity itself. I wasn't testing to determine whether or not the Crossbreed is safe for use on roller-coasters.

The rep added that as you wear the holster and your body presses against the leather it should tighten up more, or that I can send it in for adjustment.

Hopefully it will tighten up.

I'm still a bit unclear as to how most holsters are shipped. I just saw a youtube vid where a guy had just received a SuperTuck for his 1911 and turned it upside down to show that there was SOME retention but that it wasn't overly tight. It was tight enough that it was held in place unless it was abruptly shook downward.

Seriously, is the upside down test REALLY that stupid? I mean, if there is no resistance at all, not even a tiny bit, it may not mean everything but it certainly doesn't mean nothing.

I haven't decided what to do, but I'm still curious as to whether you guys have had the same experience. I'll probably try the darn hair dryer thing again.

I don't want to give the impression that I am unhappy with Crossbreed or the holster. It's really great, aside from the retention issue that I am having. I'm now scanning the web, seeing that others have had similar complaints about retention.

[Dietrich]

My minituck came with what I would call a medium retention. I`m satisfied with it but if I wasn`t,I`d send it back and let them fix it.Their job is to sell a product that the customer is happy with.If you ain`t happy make them make you happy.:)

[Ol'coot]

My mini-tuck is also what I would call medium retention, I can preform your upside down test and unless shaken abrubtly witha fully loaded PM9 it does not fall out. There is a snap felt when holstering but it can still be drawn easlily with no scraping or shaving off of the kydex at all. I am very happy with my mini-tuck

[fitzgood]

I don't have a minituck but the retention of my supertuck for the XD40 was looser than I wanted it too (I thought). I started wearing it at 4:30 and it was a little too loose for my liking. I would have done the hairdryer deal but when I carry it closer to 3:30 and it is bent around my hip more in that location the retention is perfect. You should make sure you judging the retention as you will use it because curvature, belt tension and ride height all have a big effect.

In the end though, if you are not happy, send it back to Mark.

[burns]

I'm going to send it back to Crossbreed and ask them to reshape the kydex with a bit more than average tension. I'm sure they will be helpful based on the positive customer service remarks I've read.

I looked around a bit more on the web today and saw photos of other folks' holsters. I think mine is a bit off.

I attached a photo of mine and a photo of another guy's holster from the web. The first one is the random web photo, the second one is mine. Mine is titled "My Kahr". You will notice that on mine, the definition of the lines of the kydex is really insignificant and just not precisely fit. Also, there is a decent amount of extra kydex material around the muzzle, particularly to the left of the muzzle when you look at the holster head on. The trigger guard is somewhat better since I've adjusted the retention by pushing it in under heat, as you can see in the photo.

I'll let you guys know how it works out.

Burns.

[fitzgood]

I'm going to send it back to Crossbreed and ask them to reshape the kydex with a bit more than average tension. I'm sure they will be helpful based on the positive customer service remarks I've read.

I looked around a bit more on the web today and saw photos of other folks' holsters. I think mine is a bit off.

I attached a photo of mine and a photo of another guy's holster from the web. The first one is the random web photo, the second one is mine. Mine is titled "My Kahr". You will notice that on mine, the definition of the lines of the kydex is really insignificant and just not precisely fit. Also, there is a decent amount of extra kydex material around the muzzle, particularly to the left of the muzzle when you look at the holster head on. The trigger guard is somewhat better since I've adjusted the retention by pushing it in under heat, as you can see in the photo.

I'll let you guys know how it works out.

Burns.

That does look less molded than others I have seen.

[burns]

Yep. To be absolutely fair I should add that I may have made some aspect a bit worse with my hair dryer attempt, but only a very tiny bit. It never looked anywhere near as defined as the ones I've seen in other photos.

Also, that extra slather of kydex to the left of the muzzle seems totally unnecessary and just adds bulk to the worst part of the holster in terms of comfort.

It's no problem. I'll just be out a holster for a few days. At least my PM9 was perfect out of the box!

[Ol'coot]

I agree that on your mini-tuck the Kydex has a much less defined impression of the gun, Here is a shot of mine

http://www.photographicendeavors.com/img/v3/p802788953-3.jpg

[recoilguy]

Yeah I just looked at my holster and yours is definaetaly less defined. Mine holds very nicely. Good Luck with X-breed I hear they are champions as far as customer service goes. You want to be happy with your holster, it is with you all the time.

RCG

[wyntrout]

Burns, it's hard to tell from a photo, but I wonder if yours was made from thicker Kydex and didn't take to the molding as well. No matter, though, XB will fix it. I haven't gotten my P380 for the Minituck I have, yet, and I haven't received the holster for the PM9 I do have, yet. They seem like great holsters and I hope mine fits better. Maybe they were breaking in someone new? Good luck. Oh, and anybody making an order there-- remember to read the FAQs and see if you can get a discount -- 10% off for any military (active or retired), current NRA members(need member#), and, of course any law enforcement -- only one discount allowed, though.
Wynn:)

Wahoo! My Minituck just arrived (eighth day -- the first came on the 7th day, counting the day ordered). I'll have to play with that and my PM9 now.:D

[tnedator]

I agree that on your mini-tuck the Kydex has a much less defined impression of the gun, Here is a shot of mine

http://www.photographicendeavors.com/img/v3/p802788953-3.jpg

My minituck for my PM9 w/CTC looks like this one (except for having natural colored horsehide).

[ltxi]

No, the upside down with a moderate shake test isn't irrational. I've long used it for open top holsters when adjusting the tension or just gauging suitability.

I just bought a mini-tuck for my sister as a birthday present for use with her LW Colt Gov't .380. Checked it with my Pocketlight Mustang before I reshipped it. The retention was adequate but a bit loose to my preference, which lead me to read the instructions about adjusting it.

Sounds like yours was molded loose and if it were me I'd ship it back to Crossbreed for adjustment before attacking it with a hair dryer.

I'm a long time user of quality Kydex holsters...BladeTech mostly. This one impressed me as a notch below what I'm used to.

[tnedator]

No, the upside down with a moderate shake test isn't irrational. I've long used it for open top holsters when adjusting the tension or just gauging suitability.

I just bought a mini-tuck for my sister as a birthday present for use with her LW Colt Gov't .380. Checked it with my Pocketlight Mustang before I reshipped it. The retention was adequate but a bit loose to my preference, which lead me to read the instructions about adjusting it.

Sounds like yours was molded loose and if it were me I'd ship it back to Crossbreed for adjustment before attacking it with a hair dryer.

I'm a long time user of quality Kydex holsters...BladeTech mostly. This one impressed me as a notch below what I'm used to.

Hybrid, leather backed kydex holsters can't be tested the same way full kydex or traditional leather holsters can be. Some of the retention is from the leather 'pushing' in when you are wearing it. It's the reason that Comptac uses the same kydex bodies for PM9 and PM40's, and for 9mm, .40 cal and .357 Glocks.

They don't do this with their full kydex models (like Bladetech), only their hybrids, because the flexible leather backing creates the retention when it is worn. So, if you must do the upside down and shake it test with a hybrid, then you need to do a handstand and then vigorously do push ups and see if it comes out. Any other upside down test is not valid.

[burns]

Hybrid, leather backed kydex holsters can't be tested the same way full kydex or traditional leather holsters can be. Some of the retention is from the leather 'pushing' in when you are wearing it. It's the reason that Comptac uses the same kydex bodies for PM9 and PM40's, and for 9mm, .40 cal and .357 Glocks.

They don't do this with their full kydex models (like Bladetech), only their hybrids, because the flexible leather backing creates the retention when it is worn. So, if you must do the upside down and shake it test with a hybrid, then you need to do a handstand and then vigorously do push ups and see if it comes out. Any other upside down test is not valid.

I agree that the hybrids are a different animal. My Sidearmor for my Glock is amazingly well made, has perfectly defined lines and the retention is excellent and adjustable. However, it is an all kydex scabbard holster with retention screws and it is thicker kydex, so it would be unfair to compare it to a hybrid like the Crossbreed. I agree that the Crossbreed kydex has to be thin enough and "forgiving" enough that it will flex a bit on it's own (without retention buffers) so it can't be as perfectly formed and as tight as some other holsters.

Like I said, the "upside down test" is not an end in itself. Also, I did not intend to say that if a holster is turned upside down and it falls out, it is a poor holster and if it stays in that it is a good holster with proper retention. I was just using it as a way of explaining that when it was turned upside down, the gun fell out with literally no retention at all. There was just nothing holding it in place. If it fell out but there was a bit of resistance, that would be a different story; there was no resistance except a tiny bit of noise from the metal touching against the kydex on it's way out. It was a "free drop."

The retention was also "zero" when wearing the holster. As you mention that could make a big difference. However, there was no retention when wearing the holster.

I hope that makes sense. I can see where the confusion would come from when one hears the phrase "upside down test." I actually didn't use the word "test" when I called Crossbreed, I just said something like "when I turn it upside down it falls out with no resistance." I was just trying to convey that there was no retention.

[recoilguy]

Bottom line for me is I have to like what I pay for. Xbreed says if you don't like it they will fix it or buy it back in the first 2 weeks and after that they will fix it. Let them make you happy, It seems like they want happy customers. Which test is legit and which may not be is good info to have but the test here that matters is will Xbreed make you happy.

Thats just my opinion however.

RCG

[Mdubtech]

Anyone with a Minituck carry both a PM9 and a K40 with the same holster? Is that a viable option? Just wondering because I have both and want to use the same holster.

[Ol'coot]

Anyone with a Minituck carry both a PM9 and a K40 with the same holster? Is that a viable option? Just wondering because I have both and want to use the same holster.


I have a PM9 with the CT LG-437 laser guard and purchased my crossbreed Mini-tuck made to fit, It also fits the PM( without the laser guard installed and I do also have a K40 and it fits it perfectly.

According to the crossbreed website the Mini-tuck fits all Kahr's except the Kahr P380 K,PM,MK,K,T,TP,CW, If order for the CT laser guard 437 it still fits all of the above with or without the laser installed

[hedgehog]

Ive found that comp-tac has a better looking and performing holster in general, i've used both.

[wyntrout]

Anyone with a Minituck carry both a PM9 and a K40 with the same holster? Is that a viable option? Just wondering because I have both and want to use the same holster.

I have the MiniTuck in horsehide (sweater) and all of my Kahrs fit it, except the P380... it has its own Minituck.

Let me see if I can find one of my posts on this:

I've said this a few times, but I have a horsehide Minituck that I got for my PM9. My K9 drops into it. My PM45 fits it fine. The .45 was only a tiny bit more resistance than the PM9, which was a pleasant surprise... not having to buy another holster for the .45.
It would seem that the P45 would fit if the PM45 does. I didn't have to use much extra pressure to get the PM45 into the PM9 holster. The P's barrel is 1/2" longer and the grip is one round longer, but the width is the same. There's only 1/10" difference in the width between the 9mm and the .45... okay 0.11 inch.

AND:

I don't have to tug... it's like it was made for the PM45, which is fine with me, as that's my main carry. The K9 is really loose but belt tension will hold it in. The PM9 is not "tight" but fine with belt tension. the PM45 is retained when the holster is held upside down, the K9 not at all and the PM9 only shows the slightest hesitation before falling out. The PM45 requires a shake. This is not a great "test" because wearing the holster molds it to your body and retention is greatly affected by carry position and the tightness of your belt. If you think "committing" the holster to the PM45 may prevent proper fit and retention with the "smaller" pistols, then this one size fits all might not suit you.
If I'm going to wear the Minituck, I'll carry the PM45. It's only 4 ounces more than the PM9 and about 6 ounces lighter than the K9... and my favorite caliber.

If you sweat or live where it's warm, go with the horsehide. It's only $10 more and cheaper than remorse! Don't forget the 10% discount... see FAQs.

Pix:
http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1637-pm9-pm40-3.html#post16058

Wynn:)