PM45 or Micro 1911

[s4255]

I had mentioned before about trading my cm9 for a micro 1911. But after a little more research I am rethinking and considering a PM45. I am very pleased with my cm9 and have never had any issuses, and would assume I would have same with a pm45. On the other hand I have read wear there seem to be lots of issuses with the micro 1911's. Any info. on this or opinions would be appricated. Thanks

[Bill K]

I assume this is a CC choice, right? I would make the decision based on which action you feel would better serve you should you have to use the gun in a SD/HD situation.

[Popeye]

I assume this is a CC choice, right? I would make the decision based on which action you feel would better serve you should you have to use the gun in a SD/HD situation.

I'll second this.^^^^
Now on a personal note. I'm not a big fan of less than full size 1911's.

[s4255]

Yes it is for CC

[Bawanna]

I have both and it would break my heart to part with either my 1911's or my PM45.

One thing to consider is the PM45 always goes with me. Always. Even when the 1911 has to stay behind, so there's a big convenience factor involved.

Truth be told if I ever had to shoot (heaven forbid) I'd want my 1911 in hand. But that PM45 will get the job done in fine fashion and it will always be there.

You can always get a commander or full size 1911 to run with it when the occasion allows. I'm rarely without both but never without the PM45.

My vote is get the PM45 but don't let a shiny new 1911 be too far from your thoughts.

[Barth]

I have to agree with everyone else.

The main issues are -
1) Are you skilled with, and do you really want to carry, Cocked and Locked?
2) Micro 3" 1911 45s, in general, don't have the best reliability record.
3) .45s are sub sonic from a 5" barrel.
And tend to suffer more from a 3" barrel than 40/357/9mm.
(I don't think it's a coincidence that ammo performance
is usually measured from 5" for 45 and 4" for 40/357 Sig/9mm)

Even Speer's 45 Short Barrel round,
specifically designed to open at low velocities,
was tested with what they considered a short barrel for a 45 (4" inches)
http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23975
GDHP 230 Short barrel (4" barrel) 820 fps 343 E

Federal 230-gr. Hydra-Shok
Federal 5" TB ---- 900 fps 414 E
Glock 3.8" Barrel - 847 fps
Kimber Ultra 3.0" -765 fps
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you really want a micro with a punch.
My MK40 is about as small as you're going to get.
Double action.
And .40 Speer 155 gr GDHPs run ~1150 fps at ~450 E
from it's 3" barrel with total reliability.

45s are really at their best in full size pistols.
My P220 isn't going anywhere - LOL
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo09/fd/dd/7da54042b7a2__1327194679000.jpg

[O'Dell]

I'll start by saying I have three micro 1911 45's. That said, unless you are really in love with 1911's and willing to put up with the animal, get the PM45. All three of mine are high line, re: expensive, and all three have had initial issues. The Kimber and STI are running fine now and the Detonics is still in the shop. The PM45 is smaller, lighter, and easier to carry than any 1911. It's also a pussycat to shoot.

[JFootin]

I'd go the PM45 route, but I would keep the CM9.

[Frankhenrylee]

Don't kill the messenger, but Springfield's new .45 XD-S is due out in the Spring. Me likey! Specs say its heavy, but I think its got to be a misprint. Can't wait to see one in person. I'm cutting back on the unimportant stuff like food and water till I can save up enough. LOL!

[kahrseye]

I love my PM45 and it's really accurate. I can't beleive how well I shoot it. When you consider the size and weight I don't believe there's anything out there currently that's better.

[JohnR]

What particular "micro 1911" are you guys talking about? Colt Defender?

From a 3" barrel, surely the velocity of a .45 bullet, though less than from a 5" barrel, is still enough to stop a bad guy.

[Bawanna]

What particular "micro 1911" are you guys talking about? Colt Defender?

From a 3" barrel, surely the velocity of a .45 bullet, though less than from a 5" barrel, is still enough to stop a bad guy.

That's sort of what I'm counting on. Gonna ruin his day for sure.

[O'Dell]

Don't kill the messenger, but Springfield's new .45 XD-S is due out in the Spring. Me likey! Specs say its heavy, but I think its got to be a misprint. Can't wait to see one in person. I'm cutting back on the unimportant stuff like food and water till I can save up enough. LOL!

It's is going to be heavy - more so than my full sized P220 45. In fact heavier than almost all my 45's except a couple of 1911's. That a deal killer for me.

[s4255]

I am looking at: Kimber ultra cdp 2, SA Micro Compact, and Colt Defender

[DKD]

Well maybe I am the wrong guy to offer his two cents worth here on this, but we go....
Get both a PM45 and a Micro 45 1911. You will end up with both down the road anyway.:D
I have two Micro 3" inchers and two 4" inchers. a 3" Colt Defender (nice gun) and an all stainless steel Colt Commander. a 3" Kimber Ultra Raptor (which I love dearly) and a 4" all steel Pro Raptor which I shoot quite well.
I also have a PM45 which I like alot so there you have it. That darm Kahr PM45 handles far better than one would imagine recoil wise.
Gun poor...yup and loving it!
Others here make some valid points about being comfortable about carrying cocked and locked. I personally don't have a problem with it at all but that is purley a personal thing for sure.
As for the nay sayers about 3" 45's....raspberries:001_tt2: Yea you might see it coming, but you won't be able to get out of the way of that big, fat, ugly bullet. Bet ya can't eat one with out going down.

[JohnR]

You will end up with both down the road anyway.:D
^^This. [/thread] :D:D:D

[CJB]

I currently own three Government models, one Commander, on Officers ACP, and one 4" (in-betweener) Springfield "Compact" .45 - they all shoot great.

They're all heavy as hell.

I shoot the 1911's, I carry one of two PM45s that I also own. I cant see carrying all that weight all day all night.

Micro 3" .45 1911's have a bad reputation, perhaps deservedly so. They are finicky. If you look at the "engineering" that has to be done to make such a short barrel work, you'll see why. Shorter stroke on the slide, less locking area, large port cutaway (lets dirt in as well as cartridge out), and the overall timing of the mechanism is pushed in all respects. Magazines are far more critical in micro 1911's. The Officer's size - 3.5 inch, has fewer gotchas, and retains the full slide stroke (part of which, critically, is the feeding overlap, which allows cartridge rise in the magazine). Smaller than that... you start to get dicey.... its like owning a high end racecar at that point. Performance takes its toll (please have exact change ready).

[jeepster09]

I love my compact LIGHT WEIGHT Para PDA, I like the Kahr PM45 but love the Para.

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0953.jpg


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1224.jpg


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1363.jpg

[Tinman507]

Jeepster,

I gotta tell ya....

You have the sweetest lookin guns anyplace. I just love looking at your photos.

Dayum, I need a second job or sumthin to start buyin some of this hardware.

[jocko]

he needs to "port" that one in the last photo!!!!!!

[340pd]

I love the 1911 platform and that influences my choice of a carry gun a lot. I have shot the PM45 and it was a nice gun. My carry gun at "work" as an RSO is my Kimber Ultra CDP II. It has been a totally trouble free gun since I bought it. Some of the early ones has an external extractor that did cause Kimber owners some problems. I believe Kimber replaced the slide in the problem guns. Mine shoots any factory or handloads from 185 gr. to 230 gr. using a variety of powders. I just posted a pic of my PM9 laying on top of my Kimber. That was an eye opener. I put my PM9 in my Silent Thunder IWB in my belt and immediately followed it up with my Kimber in a Milt Sparks Summer Special IWB holster and the Kimber was actually more concealable. That was due to the holster. I have several very well made belts and the 10oz loaded weight difference was really not a big deal. All said, if you have a Kahr, I would venture out and seriously consider a 1911. Below is my PM9 over my Kimber 3"

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/KahrvsKimber.jpg

[DJK11]

Ahh, the Kimber Ultra CDP II. Shot one for the first time last week. Was shooting my PM45 and XD9sc when the guy in the next lane asked about the PM45. So we swapped guns for a while. The Kimber is sweeeet.

[tomwalshco]

Two completely different animals. While I like the 1911 platform very much (have 3, 2 are 3"ers) in any size, my handgun interests fall almost exclusively to carry and away-from-home self defense.

Single action only with a safety and exposed hammer vs striker fired double action with no levers, no hammer.

I've studied this carry weapon thing very thoroughly for 6 years and have carried both styles for extended periods. 5 or 6 different units. Read a ton of other people's experiences as well.

I just think the long pull, double action is far safer and a better choice for me. In my mind there is way more opportunity for the safety to get inadvertently flipped off (especially an ambi) and you've got a disaster waiting to happen stuck in your belt.

Also, while practicing, I've found myself firing a 1911 style before I'm really ready. Especially if the tension level is up a little bit. Not to mention a real-life, high stress defensive situation. No lectures, please, and I haven't shot myself in the foot or anything/anybody else. But my accuracy is non-existent on these twitch fires. Sharper recoil can also cause an occasional bump-fire action with a light, SA trigger.

Better for me because 1) a safer carry, 2) a better shooting option when the adrenalin level goes code red. When the heat is really on, a single action trigger might almost become a full automatic for me. Provided I wasn't too panicked to flip the safety down.

[kahrnut1]

a couple of weeks ago i went with my brothers to sw texas to do some work on our deer lease. i was wearing kimber crimson ultra in galco iwb in a couple of days going in & out of hardware & feed supply stores i had 4 different people coment on the gun being cocked. i swaped to pm45 same style holster & went the rest of week without another coment except 1 guy that had mentioned cocked & locked said he apprieceated me changing gun. just a thought

[TheTman]

As much as I love my 1911's, for CC I prefer the long double action trigger of the Kahr. If you're a young guy with a steady hand that might not be an issue, but for an older guy like myself with muscle spasms and such, I'm afraid a muscle spasm or twitch might set off a 1911 where it's not going to affect a Kahr trigger. Plus there are no safeties to mess you up on the PM45.

[Barth]

As much as I love my 1911's, for CC I prefer the long double action trigger of the Kahr. If you're a young guy with a steady hand that might not be an issue, but for an older guy like myself with muscle spasms and such, I'm afraid a muscle spasm or twitch might set off a 1911 where it's not going to affect a Kahr trigger. Plus there are no safeties to mess you up on the PM45.

I think people tend to forget the wonderful feeling of an adrenalin dump.
Shaking hands, tunnel vision, quickness of breath, loosing your fine motor skills...

I'm fond of saying; your very worst day at the range will likely be better
than how you perform in a SD situation.
K.I.S.S. principals rules the day when the guacamole hits the fan!

I shoot 1911 style guns better than anything else. But don't own one.
Closest thing to it is my beloved Sig Sauer P220/45 (DA/SA with no external safety)

[JFootin]

+1^ You know, I'd like to have one of those 16 oz Browning 1911-22s for plinking out at the farm, but I'll stick with my Kahrs for carry. I intend to get the CW45 rather than a PM or CM45. My reasoning is that my CM9 is just a little big for pocket carry anyway, so it and the 45 will be riding IWB on my waist. Therefore, the slightly larger size of the CW45 won't be a factor. I also intend to eventually get a P380 (or CW380 hopefully) for pocket carry and as a BUG to the others. So, I will have 3 6+1 guns with the same trigger, sights, slide stop, manual of arms and overall design for my CC arsenal. Total KISS factor. :cool:

[O'Dell]

Three of my four Kahrs get carried quite a bit. The PM9 goes in a pocket if I can't cover a belt holster and the CW40 or Cw45 when I can. I only got the 45 last month, and it will probably replace the 40 most of the time. I haven't yet figured out what to do with the new MK40. It's pocket sized but it's much heavier the the PM9. It will work in a heavy jacket pocket, but otherwise, will probably be on the belt.

[Barth]

Three of my four Kahrs get carried quite a bit. The PM9 goes in a pocket if I can't cover a belt holster and the CW40 or Cw45 when I can. I only got the 45 last month, and it will probably replace the 40 most of the time. I haven't yet figured out what to do with the new MK40. It's pocket sized but it's much heavier the the PM9. It will work in a heavy jacket pocket, but otherwise, will probably be on the belt.

+1
I got the MK40 as a pocket pistol.
Although it's small enough to carry like that,
it's truly a bit heavy to be comfortable.
Much like my S&W 640-1, the ~25 oz guns are best on a belt.
My 11.1 oz (13.5 oz loaded) S&W 342 ti,
with 135 gr Speer Short Barrel +P rounds,
lives in my front pocket.
For over 10 years it's been the ultimate pocket pistol for me.
I don't see that changing anytime soon - if ever.

[cmichael22]

I have been hearing that 3in 1911's are not very reliable but idk if thats true. I have been thinking about getting one but the main reason is because they look really cool like the Colt Defender and Springfield Micro Compact.

[yqtszhj]

PM45 or CW45. I love my CW45