Joe Paterno - RIP

[Tinman507]

All of the horrible headlines aside... this was a great man.
Both my kids attend Penn State. It's hard to comprehend all the good this man has done. Set aside the recent revelations and take the whole man and all of his accomplishments.
uihZb2GCpk0


Edit: I apologize for beginning this thread. It was not my intention to start any arguments. If folks would take the time to learn about the man, they'd find he was far more than football.
If the mods would kindly close the thread it would be appreciated.

[apheod]

set aside him looking the other way while 10 yr olds got buttraped in the showers indeed.

RIP... i guess.

[jeepster09]

set aside him looking the other way while 10 yr olds got buttraped in the showers indeed.

RIP... i guess.

:75:


No hero in my book, football seems to over rule everything in many schools.

[Popeye]

He really was a great man it's just a shame he got caught up in that mess. For those who want to look at him in any other way, lets just hold off until we see how this all plays out and who did what, and who could or should have done more. RIP JOE PA From a long time Penn State Fan.

[apheod]

until what all plays out? joe paterno stated what he saw, that he reported it to higher authorities, and thought they'd take it from there. when they didn't take it from there, he didn't do what any decent human being would have done, and gone to law enforcement authorities.

the guy who did the child molesting admits to "showering and horsing around with young boys, but only in a non-sexual way." yeah, i'm sure.

this is not a case of reading some headline and lapping up whatever they want us to believe... the facts are all there for the taking, and it's some shameful ****.

also, i could care less about football. dudes chasing a ball around on a bunch of grass? uninterested.

[apheod]

had i seen what he saw... there would have been about a 2 second delay from me seeing it, to some serious child molester pistol whipping.

inexcusable. i don't care how many decades he coached winning football teams for. there is no excuse.

[tv_racin_fan]

What he SAW? I understood that someone else supposedly SAW something and reported it to Joe who reported it to higher ups. Is that not the case then?

[Bawanna]

My ugly meter is bouncing all over the ugly scale. Don't do me ugly.

[apheod]

What he SAW? I understood that someone else supposedly SAW something and reported it to Joe who reported it to higher ups. Is that not the case then?

you are correct, i was going off the top of my head from reading up on the incident a couple of months back. it was assistant coach mike mcqueary who allegedly witnessed the buggering.

i stand by all of my other comments.

[AFVet]

Yes, it was the Penn State assistant who actually witnessed the abuse. He told Patterno, who reported it to his bosses.

Joe takes the big hit here in my mind for tolerating Sandusky's presence on the campus for quite a bit after the incident. I also think he takes a big hit for letting Sandusky continue with his foundation that worked with young kids.

[tv_racin_fan]

Much as I respected Joe for some things he did he sure lost my respect with this.

The guy who supposedly saw something and didn't do anything is a guy I would dearly love to gut alive and leave to rot in the Arizona sun.

[apheod]

I lost all respect the first time I took my 8 year old girl buddy into the tool shed. Since thenb I have lived a "monks" like.

huh? :confused:

[jocko]

huh? :confused:

that did not come out right now did it. I was 8 also. I think I will pull that post.. thanks apheod.:75:

[Longitude Zero]

Sorry but I am not feeling any sympathy right now for him and won't now or forever. He failed that child when he did not call 911.

[kahrseye]

Joe Paterno was a great man. That is not in dispute. What has come to light IS certainly in dispute. Who knew what, when, where is yet to be determined. The fact that this man, who is loved by everyone at PSU, students, faculty, and players was horribly mistreated. The rush to judgement and the trial by media was disgusting. There have been reports that the assistant coach didn't tell Joe the entire story. If you want to read the Sandusky indictment just google it. There is much more to come with this story, but apparently in our country you're now guilty until proven innocent.

[knkali]

I always respected my coaches. They were important people in my life and help put into practice ideals such as hard work, fair play, leadership, and many other important life tools. Coach P was supposed to be a leader of young men. Certainly a follow up to the situation was warranted on his part after reporting something so sinister as this and having Sandusky around for so long was questionable. I cannot draw a line between the recent events and his coaching because in my view he was the leader that everyone looked to. Unfortunately, he was, as most coaches are at this level, only concerned about W's and was paid to produce wins and make himself and PSU look good. Anything else was a distraction to that end. I think most here believe that raping 10 yo kids is never only a distraction and that is where Coach P lost his direction and his subsequent (my)support. Is this really fair to him? You decide when dropping your kids off in the care of another adult and let us know how much leeway you would feel if somethig like this should happen to your children.

[knkali]

Joe Paterno was a great man. That is not in dispute. What has come to light IS certainly in dispute. Who knew what, when, where is yet to be determined. The fact that this man, who is loved by everyone at PSU, students, faculty, and players was horribly mistreated. The rush to judgement and the trial by media was disgusting. There have been reports that the assistant coach didn't tell Joe the entire story. If you want to read the Sandusky indictment just google it. There is much more to come with this story, but apparently in our country you're now guilty until proven innocent.

I understand your point but Sandusky was accused of questionable activity with a boy before this recent event and said he would not shower with kids any longer but he did continue to shower with them according to his own interview response. The fact that coach P didnt keep Sandusky on a very tight leash after the first complaint or terminate his contact at PSU was poor judgement on his part and set himself up for this. The first documented accusation of wrong doing should have been enough for coach P to say to Sandusky that this sheet storm is not good for anyone and you got to go due to your lack of judgement and questionable hygiene program. While some would say that is still passing the buck, I do believe the first incident did have the police involved.

[guido4198]

Coach Paterno was a great man, a credit to his University and a positive factor in a LOT of young men's lives over his incredible career. IF..he made a mistake...(I'm personally not sure if he did or not)....Let me ask...WHO HASN'T...???
I'm not going to allow the ugly issue of Sandusky to totally discredit Coach Paterno's DECADES of excellent successful service to Penn State.
If you've never made a mistake in your life....I guess you can criticize him.
Disclaimer: I've never been to Penn State, have nothing to do with Penn State...never been a Penn State fan, but I know a media-feeding-frenzy-lynching when I see one.

[crazymailman]

As I heard the stories concerning Coach Paterno's lack of action, I couldn't understand why no one was making the same case against McCreary. He is the one who SAW the incident. He told his boss and all was good? Paterno relayed the info to his superiors, but didn't do enough? It seems to me that more than concern for these boys is what went on at Penn St.

[skiflydive]

Seriously do NOT want to stir this pot. He was, by all accounts, a great motivator and a good man. In Michigan, every election cycle, we have to elect a whole pile of university trusties no one knows anything about because 3 of our state universities (U of M, MSU, and WSU) are governmental entities unto themselves. In other words, they're their own little governments with their own law enforcement etc. If PA Universities are similar, Paterno, and others, may have expressed their concerns to their internal governmental hierarchy but it was never passed on to the regular civil authorities. I'm not offering any excuses...the whole situation is sickening...I'm just saying that other "governmental" issues might have been in play. In other words, the involved parties followed appropriate protocol but the legal system you and I are familiar with was never involved until much later.

[EZ Land]

Hind sight is always 20-20, and Paterno admitted that he wished he'd done things differently. He should have. Everyone makes mistakes, and I've certainly made my share. However, these mistakes, not stopping Sandusky's behavior sooner, led to more innocent children being abused. We all have a duty to protect our children, (yours or others) and no institution is beyond reproach; whether a great football program, government, church, school etc. There is no question that Paterno did great things at State College. He gave millions of dollars to the university and helped raise millions more. He consistently had top graduation rates among his players, and he was Penn State, through and through. But, that doesn't excuse him for not taking more action, and using his position and influence to push the issue if others didn't. We all have a responsibility to protect children.

I agree that we're all innocent until proven guilty. But, many of the records are public and the indictments are damning, to say the least. Sandusky, admitted during the interview with Costas of showering with these young boys. That alone, in my opinion, should have been the end of Sandusky's time at Penn State, and Paterno should have stopped it right there.

Just my opinion; yours may vary.

[Popeye]

had i seen what he saw... This is exactly what I mean. The true facts in this case haven't really come foward yet. Joe Pa reportedly did report what he had heard from Mc Query to higher athorities of PSU They are the ones that did nothing or did not follow up on what they reportedly knew. Should have Paterno followed it up more closely? In hind sight, Sure he should have but lets not say he condoned such behavior as some of you seem to want to project. That's BS. Joe PA has helped more people than anyone else at PSU get a higher education. His players have one of the highest graduation rates in the country. Was he aware that the higher ups at PSU did not in fact turn what they knew over to police at that time.(At that time, not now) I don't know, and neither do you. Lets remember here that although Paterno was a very important man on campus as most colledge football coaches are he did not run PSU. From what I'm hearing this McQuery has changed his mind a couple times on what he said he actually saw. If he did see what he said he saw, then why did he at 6'3" tall 200+ and some lbs not stop what he said he saw going on? Sandusky is a much older man and is smaller. I sure would have and I'm only 5'11" 195. If you really want to blame someone then there is the person you might want to put in your sights along with Sandusky. This whole thing is as sickening as it gets and some good people did not make the proper choices at the time but lets not drop the whole mess in Joe Pa's lap.
I've enjoyed being a Fan PSU football for many years and always marveled at Joe Pa.s humble behavior. I don't know how many times I heard him say"hey I'm just a footbal coach". He always gave his players the credit for any success they might have had. Even if that wasn't always true.
Joe Pa. to me will always be a good man who has helped more people attain a better life for themselves and go on to better things, who got caught up in a bad situation that he never wanted or created. Darn shame he desireved better. May he RIP.

[kahrseye]

In 1998 the mother of a victim called police when she discovered that Sandusky had showered and hugged her son (while naked). Apparently the police investigated and Sandusky said he would not shower with boys again. Now why wasn't this more thoroughly investigated. Was Child Protective Services called? If so did they clear Sandusky too? How many others should have done more? As Popeye said, let's not drop this in Joe Pa's lap...There are many other people who should have done more including police and government workers whose job is to protect the public.

[knkali]

had i seen what he saw... This is exactly what I mean. The true facts in this case haven't really come foward yet. Joe Pa reportedly did report what he had heard from Mc Query to higher athorities of PSU They are the ones that did nothing or did not follow up on what they reportedly knew. Should have Paterno followed it up more closely? In hind sight, Sure he should have but lets not say he condoned such behavior as some of you seem to want to project. That's BS. Joe PA has helped more people than anyone else at PSU get a higher education. His players have one of the highest graduation rates in the country. Was he aware that the higher ups at PSU did not in fact turn what they knew over to police at that time.(At that time, not now) I don't know, and neither do you. Lets remember here that although Paterno was a very important man on campus as most colledge football coaches are he did not run PSU. From what I'm hearing this McQuery has changed his mind a couple times on what he said he actually saw. If he did see what he said he saw, then why did he at 6'3" tall 200+ and some lbs not stop what he said he saw going on? Sandusky is a much older man and is smaller. I sure would have and I'm only 5'11" 195. If you really want to blame someone then there is the person you might want to put in your sights along with Sandusky. This whole thing is as sickening as it gets and some good people did not make the proper choices at the time but lets not drop the whole mess in Joe Pa's lap.
I've enjoyed being a Fan PSU football for many years and always marveled at Joe Pa.s humble behavior. I don't know how many times I heard him say"hey I'm just a footbal coach". He always gave his players the credit for any success they might have had. Even if that wasn't always true.
Joe Pa. to me will always be a good man who has helped more people attain a better life for themselves and go on to better things, who got caught up in a bad situation that he never wanted or created. Darn shame he desireved better. May he RIP.

Very well said. Everyone dropped this ball and coach had it dumped on him. Sandusky ultimatey is the guy under the microscope. McQuery is a *****. I think most guys here if they "had seen what he saw" would find out if their Kahr had any FTF problems. I try not to pass judgement but this situation might be an exception. Too much smoke to not be a fire. I will stop now and apologize to the OP for my diverting his thread. Sorry OP.

[EZ Land]

Legal responsibility is not always the same as moral responsibility....

Everyone involved in this ongoing and long term tragedy had a moral responsibility to do more. It is sickening that Sandusky was allowed anywhere near PSU. It certainly isn't all of Paterno's fault, but unquestionably more could and should have done. But, there is a huge perception that PSU wanted to handle this internally and quietly, and sweep it under the rug. This wasn't a recruiting violation or a misuse of funds, etc., it was child abuse of the highest order. IMO, all of them are responsible. And, the administration is more responsible than anyone other than Sandusky, himself.

[les strat]

As I heard the stories concerning Coach Paterno's lack of action, I couldn't understand why no one was making the same case against McCreary. He is the one who SAW the incident. He told his boss and all was good? Paterno relayed the info to his superiors, but didn't do enough? It seems to me that more than concern for these boys is what went on at Penn St.

IMO, it is probably folks higher at Penn St. that didn't want this exposed and everyone was probably told to zip it.

Lotsa times it's what you don't do in life that bites you in the butt more than what you have done.

And with that, I'd love to see a large version of that avatar crazymailman :)

[crazymailman]

And with that, I'd love to see a large version of that avatar crazymailman :)

Here ya go:


http://www.zonafreak.com.ar/femmes/2008/carla-gugino12.jpg

[Armybrat]

JoePa, McCreary, and the school officials ALL violated Pennsylvania law.

It's the same here in Texas for any educator - suspicions of child abuse has to be reported directly to law authorities.

If a teacher assistant told me they saw another teacher molesting a child (or even just suspected it), I would have been required by law to call the police or the state Child Protection Agency myself. That wwas drilled into us aat faaculty meetings every year for decades. Of course the school administrators were to be notified as well. But that is a criminal matter, not a school personnel disciplinary incident.

The Pennsylvania code covering that is online - read it myself months ago.

Too bad about Paterno, but his legacy is gone as far as many are concerned.

[apheod]

i dont think anyone here suggested that it was all in joe paterno's lap. we just said that based on his own, and sandusky's statements so far, he could have stepped up and stopped this almost a decade ago, and prevented quite a few lives from being ruined.

[Armybrat]

i dont think anyone here suggested that it was all in joe paterno's lap. we just said that based on his own, and sandusky's statements so far, he could have stepped up and stopped this almost a decade ago, and prevented quite a few lives from being ruined.

McCreary should've gone directly to the cops after kicking the caca out of Sandusky. But he told his daddy instead - who should've phoned the LEOs. Then came JoePa. They all failed those kids and deserve the scorn being heaped upon them, IMO.

If that incident had occured NOT in a "gun-free" zone, it would have been a CHL carrier's duty to cap Sandusky in the act.

Apparently that has escaped a lot of the defenders of the "legacy".

[jocko]

It does seem we have convicted Joe P without due process. Lots of people it seemed dropped the ball. IMO when that mom calledin 98 to the police and it was either "whitewashed" or piss poorly investigated, or both, then somewhere the ball has to stop . If it was one of my kids, I would want alot of opeopl,e hanged over it but we know that ain'[t gonna happen, Sandusky is the culprit, hang him, the others lives are ruinded but IMO they do not need to be hanged.

[apheod]

IMO, if you don't want people to judge you for having done something, don't publicly say that you did it.

noone is convicting the guy without due process, and i don't trust our legal system anyway in many cases. i'm judging him based on what he says he did.

[jocko]

and I guess that is ur right to do...

[apheod]

if oj made a public statement the next day "yeah, i stabbed nicole and that bastard who was banging her... i stabbed the **** out of em," i guess it would have been my right to assume he had done just that. no need for the courts to do any added convincing...

[jocko]

yup ur right to do or think however u please. no argument from me on that...

[Armybrat]

This ain't a court o' law....or do I need to lawyer up? :D

[apheod]

yup ur right to do or think however u please. no argument from me on that...

guess i'm a little confused... you think i'm going about this the wrong way for taking multiple people's public statements on what happened as being the likely truth?

i could see if it was someone else's statement that joepa was told about this and did nothing, and he had made no response or denied it, as me jumping to conclusions... but he came out and admitted that he knew about it for years. you knew your assistant coach was buggering little boys in the locker room, and you didn't turn him in, you just kept working with him?

meanwhile, another guy goes public saying he heard "slapping sounds" and saw sandusky with a 10 yr old bent over in the shower... sandusky admits to at least showering with little boys and "horsing around" publicly (i'm guessing that's not quite so graphic as what actually happened)... yeah. i'd say more than likely, there was some "horseplay" going on at penn state.

hey, i guess at least you guys won some football games together.

but who am i to judge? cmon man, this isn't a tough call.

[jocko]

u just want to argue now and I don't care to do that. Ur opinion is ur opinion not disputing that, nor do I think I ever disputed that. I live in Indiana, never attented PS, nor have any ties to Joe P either

but who am i to judge? cmon man, this isn't a tough call = a contra dicting statement IMO

[ORSalesRep]

Sorry, but he may have been a great man at some point in his life, but he did not go out a great man in my opinion. Sure he reported the incident to the University officials and by doing so, he took the absolute bare minimum action one could have taken. I am sorry, but we are not talking about someone cheating on an exam and this was NO victimless crime. These were 10yr old boys! For anyone who feels Paterno got a bum rap, I would be curious if one of these kids was your own, would you have still felt satisfied with Paterno's efforts in reporting what he knew? Not to mention the fact that Paterno was without a doubt the MOST powerful man at Penn State, despite the fact that the other officials may have wanted everything swept under the rug, Paterno, could have easily gone to the press without any backlash, but instead, he continued to let Sandusky hang around camp and interact with other kids.

[Bawanna]

It's sad that a man's final report card is based on the very last segment of his time on earth but I know it's true. Friends you had 10 years ago won't be there when they nail the lid shut or light off the oven.

I think we've talked this one into the ground so lets move on to something more palatable.

Let's Polka!