is the CM9 as bad as the P380? As good as a p238?

[BOBBO268]

So i've posted a few times in the P threads, but like always, as soon as I think i'm ready to buy a gun, i change my mind (i guess its better than after I buy it).

I was all set on the Sig p238 .380, which the newer model is flawless and looks great. I looked at the measurements between the P238 and CM9 and here they are:


cm9 p238
L 5.4 5.5
h 4 3.9
w .9 1.1
oz 14 15.2

My concerns are,

1) people have said the cm9 doesn't fit very well in a pocket, but the p238 does.... how can there be a difference when the CM9 is actually smaller? Is the CM9 just too boxy and the sig smoother lines? are these measurements wrong?

2) when I was looking at the Kahr p380, it had a lot of problems, but it is a newer model. The CM9 is basically PM9 which i guess has been around for a while. Is the CM9 a troublesome gun or should it be pretty good out of the box?

3)does anyone here own a CM9 and p238? If so, what are your comparisons and a side by side photo would be great, havn't found one online

4) Is there a certain serial number series that I should be looking for to ensure its newer and functioning correctly, like the Kahr p380?

THANKS in advance, i hate making decisions! And I know self defense wise the 9mm is a much better choice than the .380, but right now i'm just worried about the things i mentioned above. any help is appreciated. :israel:

[bbalak]

I can't speak for the other pistols you listed, but I'm very happy with my CM9. Fits nicely in a pocket with a good holster. I have put about 200 rounds through mine, and I feel comfortable trusting it as my ccw pistol.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[FLBri]

PM9 and P238 here.

First of all, the 1.1 width includes the slide stop on the P238. The .9 on the Kahr does not. I have measured them both with a micrometer. They are the same width (within .04) at both the slide and the grip (at the widest points). The length of the two guns is also misleading as the shape is very different. On the P238 the slide is somewhat forward of the back of the grip because the it is a hammer fired weapon. The CM9 has a longer slide and sits more 'above' the grip and extends longer behind it because the striker is internal. The P238 dimensions are at the widest parts, but there are more contours, and especially at the grip area ... this results in an easier to pocket conceal profile (IMO).

You really have to hold them each and form your own conclusion. The P238, for me, fits those few places where the PM9 doesn't. For me, this is Jeans and some dress clothes.

[pocket pistol]

I have the CM9. I've read a little about the mags and stuff. Mine is great. It's everything I thought it would be. I did the prep and lube from this forum and mine is smooth an accurate. I don't hesitate to recommend it.

[kerby9mm]

I have to agree with FLBri. My comparison is based on what I own so it is not exact but general. My mk40 is smaller than my mk9 (even though the advertised dimensions seem negligible). I can feel the difference when I handle them and it is noticeable to the eye. The mk9 is fairly close to the pm/cm 9. My p238s are much smaller to me than the mk9 by sight. The p238's fit very loosely in my mk holsters and the mk's can't be forced into the p238 holster. To each their own just my opinion with the 4 that I have.

[pocket pistol]

As far as 380s go. I have the Ruger LCP. It's a great little pistol too. If you're thinking 380, I'd give that one a serious look. I went with the CM9 to get a little more firepower in a still compact pistol.

I like both of the pistols. I carry CM9 about 75% of the time, but there's still times where that smaller LCP just fits.

If I had to pick just one, it would be the CM9. Ammo's cheaper, easier to find, and the pistol is more fun to shoot.

Good luck with your decision, let us know what you do...

[center_mass]

Bobbo,

Like you, i recently had narrowed my choices down to the same two guns....the sig p238 and the cm9. I really loved that little sig, but once i found the kahr i fell in love with it too...my local range had a pm9 (which is basically same gun for the purpose of this discussion) that i rented and my wife and i shot 50 rnds thru it. It was very comfortable and smooth....needless to say, we bought the cm9. Here's the advantages:

Bigger caliber...but same capacity mag
Same size gun (basically)
Cheaper price
Ammo much cheaper

Plus with the kahr u just draw and squeeze the trigger...no external safety to worry about when SHTF.

So far we've got 100 rnds thru it and we love it! Thinking about adding the cw9.

Good luck.



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[jocko]

anywhee a P238 willgo a cm9 will go and anywhere a cm9 willgo a P238 will go. Really two different guns IMO. One is DAO, One is SAO, one is striker fired , one is hammer fired.. Looks the sig looks very nice, but for me and this is not a pro kahr thing either, I would not want a SAO in my pocket, u can say what ever u want about cocked and locked but this is just me, so u travel at ur own speed. U won't go wrong in either, but I do think the cm9 is more pocketable due to DAO If any of that isn't convinceing then how about A 9MM TRUMPS A 380 ANY DAY, ALL DAY.

[cesande]

I can only hope that the CM9 is as GOOD as my p380 when I decide to get one.

http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=128271&postcount=69

[jocko]

wow, normally most kahr owners would say that in reverse. U got a dandy P380, cherish it, the cm9 will be same I have no doubt about that..

[yqtszhj]

I'm feel like Jocko on carrying a SAO in my pocket to a DAO. I love my CM9. It's been flawless. If it was me I would get the CM9 over the P238. If I was going to get a .380 for pocket carry I'd look at a LCP (which I have and it runs good) or possibly a NEW production P380.

That's just me though so get what works for you and you'll do fine.

[JFootin]

Spend some time searching the forum. Search for "another boring" which refers to another boring successful CM9 range trip! The number of glowing reports on new CM9s on this forum is amazing, and we regulars joke about how boring it gets to see yet another one.

[jocko]

I'm feel like Jocko on carrying a SAO in my pocket to a DAO. I love my CM9. It's been flawless. If it was me I would get the CM9 over the P238. If I was going to get a .380 for pocket carry I'd look at a LCP (which I have and it runs good) or possibly a NEW production P380.

That's just me though so get what works for you and you'll do fine.

for the money the lcp willgo bang every time. not the most pleasant to shoot and for me not accuratge in my hands but it will save ur life and it is backede by a great company. The prce of 380 for me kinda forbids alot of range time.

[MW surveyor]

Single action in my pocket? Just the thought of it makes me nauseous. :puke:

[chuckt]

My CM9 replaced my Taurus PT738 for everyday carry. The CM9 is a little bigger and a little heavier in the pocket but my .380 is now relegated to those times I am wearing light weight shorts. The CM9 is also much more pleasant to shoot.

[BEARDOG]

anywhee a P238 willgo a cm9 will go and anywhere a cm9 willgo a P238 will go. Really two different guns IMO. One is DAO, One is SAO, one is striker fired , one is hammer fired.. Looks the sig looks very nice, but for me and this is not a pro kahr thing either, I would not want a SAO in my pocket, u can say what ever u want about cocked and locked but this is just me, so u travel at ur own speed. U won't go wrong in either, but I do think the cm9 is more pocketable due to DAO If any of that isn't convinceing then how about A 9MM TRUMPS A 380 ANY DAY, ALL DAY.

+1...100% my thoughts exactly.

Between those two guns it is not even close IMO... get the CM9!

[TriggerMan]

So i've posted a few times in the P threads, but like always, as soon as I think i'm ready to buy a gun, i change my mind (i guess its better than after I buy it).

I was all set on the Sig p238 .380, which the newer model is flawless and looks great. I looked at the measurements between the P238 and CM9 and here they are:


cm9 p238
L 5.4 5.5
h 4 3.9
w .9 1.1
oz 14 15.2

My concerns are,

1) people have said the cm9 doesn't fit very well in a pocket, but the p238 does.... how can there be a difference when the CM9 is actually smaller? Is the CM9 just too boxy and the sig smoother lines? are these measurements wrong?

2) when I was looking at the Kahr p380, it had a lot of problems, but it is a newer model. The CM9 is basically PM9 which i guess has been around for a while. Is the CM9 a troublesome gun or should it be pretty good out of the box?

3)does anyone here own a CM9 and p238? If so, what are your comparisons and a side by side photo would be great, havn't found one online

4) Is there a certain serial number series that I should be looking for to ensure its newer and functioning correctly, like the Kahr p380?

THANKS in advance, i hate making decisions! And I know self defense wise the 9mm is a much better choice than the .380, but right now i'm just worried about the things i mentioned above. any help is appreciated. :israel:In good conscience, I have to ask if you absolutely must pocket carry? It's slow when standing and impossible when sitting.

I love my P238 SAS. I sold my PM9 because of the long trigger.

[Squib]

I go to the same church as center mass. I've had a few .380, mainly for the size of the pistol, not the caliber. Now that I can get a 9mm that is small enough, I no longer have a .380. The 9mm is less expensive to feed, more powerful and I do not need to play cocked and locked roulette. My choice is the CM9.

[BOBBO268]

In good conscience, I have to ask if you absolutely must pocket carry? It's slow when standing and impossible when sitting.

I love my P238 SAS. I sold my PM9 because of the long trigger.

I don't mind a long trigger, i hate a hard trigger. And I tried the CM9 trigger today for the first time and while its as long as my bodyguard, it feels like 1/3 of the poundage (lol) on the trigger, so thats ok with me. I was about to get a sig p238 but the more and more i looked at the strenght of the 380 ammo, and by that I mean poor strength, it really has got me starting to take a second look at the 9mm.

[Ricky59]

I have both the PM9 & Sig p238 .. I can shoot much tighter groups with the single action, but prefer to carry the double action ..squeeze trigger goes bang..

[CJB]

PM9 any day of the week over the P238

Neither has had a totally 100 percent trouble free track record. Colt had issues, Sig had issues - Mustang/P238, same gun. Sig has had some frame problems, also had magazine problems, and slide stop/slide problems. Happens.

On the other hand, Kahr has occasionally had problems, not lately on the PM9/CM9 though. BOTH COMPANIES STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCTS 100 PERCENT, so I'm not trying to give the Sig a bum rap... just saying that you can run into a bad anything.

Said all that, but much prefer the PM9 type long trigger, double action, for pocket carry. Wont carry cocked and locked in my pocket, so the long DA pull is a quicker and safer type of action - for my way of carrying. Your way may be much different.

I tend to discount "range accuracy" reports. Both will get the job done at self defense distances. If you have the room to shoot further, you probably also have some time (but probably not the nerve fortitude) to take a better shot. Instinctive, close range, self defense... Kahr gets the job done.

[rstyshcklfrd]

I like my CM9. The Sig P238 is cool and all, and I'm not knocking it, but I wouldn't pocket carry a SA pistol. Then again, I don't really pocket carry anyways.

[hfjeff]

I went through this same exact question a month ago. I had never looked at Kahr until I researched online reviews. I liked the Sig a lot, but wanted to stick with 9mm since I already have a S&W 5906. Plus 9mm ammo is cheaper and more plentiful (around here anyway). It basically came down to price. I picked up my CM9 for $200 cheaper than I could get the P238. As you said they are basically the same exact size. I only have a couple hundred rounds through my CM9 and really like it. The more I read the more I really believe I made the right decision.

However that being said Sig is coming out with a P938-you guessed it, a 9mm version of the P238. It is on their website but I haven't found one yet. I stopped at a local dealer that has some on order and he will call me when they come in so I can take a look.

I love may Kahr, but I will definitely take a look at the P938. I'm sure I will keep the Kahr, but I may add the P938 to the family.

[BOBBO268]

The p938 i believe is the exact same size as the p238, with a slightly longer barrel, all other measurements (other than weight) should be the same.

I may be alone in this, but like cars (and guns especially), I will not buy the first model of something. There are waaay to many kinks to iron out, and I don't want to be the guinea pig. I like the idea of the P938, however i will be waiting at least a year until I even contemplate the idea. To each their own, obviously, but I aint' no rodent :32:

[jocko]

If u gonna waist band carry then the sig to e is worth looking at. certainly IMO not a pocket gun. If u got te guts to carry it cocked and locked in ur front pocket then go for it.. I have not seen alot of 1911 guys that carry but what I have seen very few carry cocked and locked. Mind over matter plays a big part of ones decision.

[muggsy]

If you want to talk apples to apples compare the measurements of the P380 to the P238. If your life depended on it (and it might) would you rather be carrying a .380 or a 9mm. I think you can answer the question for yourself if you frame them in the right manner.

[Dirt doc]

I have both a PM9 and a P238. For the 238, I like its 1911 similarity. I am very familiar with the 1911 from my military experience and private ownership. I have pocket carried the 238 and never had the safety accidently disengage. I like the night sites and real sites (compared to other 380s) on the 238. Having said all that I carry the Kahr. The PM9 is just as easy or difficult to pocket carry (depending on the pants) but it is a 9mm. My PM9 also has night sites. Mostly I like the simplicity of the Kahr and its reliabity. My 238 is reliable with the right ammo but is more picky on what it will run than my Kahr. Both display decent accuracy but once I got used to the trigger I shoot the PM9 better. I like both pistols but if I could keep just one it would be the PM9.

[TriggerMan]

So i've posted a few times in the P threads, but like always, as soon as I think i'm ready to buy a gun, i change my mind (i guess its better than after I buy it).

I was all set on the Sig p238 .380, which the newer model is flawless and looks great.

I have owned both a PM9 and a P238. I never pocket carried the PM9, I have pocket carried the Sig. I can hit my target much easier with a Sig and I can shoot 100 rounds without pain. I still have the Sig, I sold the Kahr. One opinion. The cost difference is in the ammo, not the guns...unless you rarely shoot.

[JFootin]

I have owned both a PM9 and a P238. I never pocket carried the PM9, I have pocket carried the Sig. I can hit my target much easier with a Sig and I can shoot 100 rounds without pain. I still have the Sig, I sold the Kahr. One opinion. The cost difference is in the ammo, not the guns...unless you rarely shoot.

Whaddayathink of the new P938? Just .4" longer and .8 oz heavier.

[TriggerMan]

Whaddayathink of the new P938? Just .4" longer and .8 oz heavier.That's gonna kick some. Gets closer to the LCP experienceand less like the P238 experience. I look forward to checking it out but I am very please with my Beretta Nano 9mm.

[JFootin]

That's gonna kick some. Gets closer to the LCP experienceand less like the P238 experience. I look forward to checking it out but I am very please with my Beretta Nano 9mm.

Yeah, good point. The 380 is actually the largest of the rounds that were designed a long time ago to work in compact pistols. A 25 or 32 would be even more comfortable to shoot, but not provide as much stopping power.

Being a lefty, I just wish the P238 had the ambi safety like the P938 does. I still think it will be a P380 (or CW380) for me.

[TriggerMan]

Yeah, good point. The 380 is actually the largest of the rounds that were designed a long time ago to work in compact pistols. A 25 or 32 would be even more comfortable to shoot, but not provide as much stopping power.

Being a lefty, I just wish the P238 had the ambi safety like the P938 does. I still think it will be a P380 (or CW380) for me.


SIG announced at SHOT 2012 that there will be an ambi P238 option. Todd McKechnie at Customized Creationz has a ambi part and several metal triggers for sale.

[JFootin]

SIG announced at SHOT 2012 that there will be an ambi P238 option. Todd McKechnie at Customized Creationz has a ambi part and several metal triggers for sale.

Cool!

[DKD]

Look guys I have both a PM9 (which is vertually the same pistol as the CM9) and the Sig 238. They are both great pistols. Like JOCKO said I agree on most points. Some folks are scared of a cocked and locked pistol wether carried in a holster or in you britches.
I can say without hesitation that the functionality and design of the safety on the Sig 238 is quite positive and you won't be able to shut it off carrying it in a proper holster designed for that gun.
Now as for cost of ammo the 9mm wins hands down and as for the added power of the 9mm there is no argument there either the 9mm wins hands down.
As for the weight the Kahr weighs an ounce or two more but is negliable, however the Sig is slightly more compact.
My every day carry is normally my PM9 for all of the above reasons, but when wearing certain types of pants I am quite confortable with the little Sig as I can shoot it very well.

So....are we confused enough yet?????:D

[jocko]

I have no issues with the safety of the sig P238. It is mind over matter and I just doubt if most will ever pocket carry that gun in cocked and locked position. I can't qualify that statement but just my gut feelings. Up until the P238 and its clone there really wasn'tmuch of a pocket carry single action and untilt he sig was really out htere the colt version certainly never got alot of coverage for pocket carry

sig cm9
15.2 oz. weight 14 oz
5.5" length 5.42"
3.9 height 4.0
1.1" width .90"width
2.7 barrel 3.0 barrel

the sig is certainly not lighter and we are comparing a 380 to a 9mm..

My PM9 loaded weights just a tad bit over 18 ounces, course I have had some slide melt to it, but I think any cm9 loaded will come in at 19 ounces..

[hfjeff]

I have owned both a PM9 and a P238. I never pocket carried the PM9, I have pocket carried the Sig. I can hit my target much easier with a Sig and I can shoot 100 rounds without pain. I still have the Sig, I sold the Kahr. One opinion. The cost difference is in the ammo, not the guns...unless you rarely shoot.

That is one sweet piece. I was looking at the Blackwood on Cheaperthandirt 3 weeks ago and it was $536. Since then it jumped to $645. OUCH! Hope I don't regret passing on the Sig.

[JFootin]

That is one sweet piece. I was looking at the Blackwood on Cheaperthandirt 3 weeks ago and it was $536. Since then it jumped to $645. OUCH! Hope I don't regret passing on the Sig.

Prices on CTD go all over the place. If you are ready to buy a particular gun, keep checking there every day and be ready to jump on it when they post a great price.

[TriggerMan]

I have no issues with the safety of the sig P238. It is mind over matter and I just doubt if most will ever pocket carry that gun in cocked and locked position. I can't qualify that statement but just my gut feelings. Up until the P238 and its clone there really wasn'tmuch of a pocket carry single action and untilt he sig was really out htere the colt version certainly never got alot of coverage for pocket carry

sig cm9
15.2 oz. weight 14 oz
5.5" length 5.42"
3.9 height 4.0
1.1" width .90"width
2.7 barrel 3.0 barrel

the sig is certainly not lighter and we are comparing a 380 to a 9mm..

My PM9 loaded weights just a tad bit over 18 ounces, course I have had some slide melt to it, but I think any cm9 loaded will come in at 19 ounces..Cocked and locked in several different holsters. The Remora, Uncle Mike's and the N82 give me concern since the material covering the trigger is so soft. If my jeans had deeper back pockets, that would be a good place. NEVER anywhere without a holster.

[BrewerGeorge]

I'd started picking threads to multi-quote but there got to be too many...

I'd never pocket carry in Condition One again - especially with a .380. Years and years ago, I tried to do that with a .25 Beretta Jetfire but it always made me uncomfortable, and is one of the prime reasons I got rid of the little pistol. Things are just too chaotic in pockets, IMO. Even in a good holster I had that thing end up backwards, upside down, out of the holster, you name it at one time or another. I don't have any problems with C&L in a belt holster, though, so it's not totally a mental blind spot for me.

[Ricky59]

I agree ..
Condition one, in the pants, cocked & locked, is to close to the family jewels..

I carry to protect them ...

[TriggerMan]

I agree ..
Condition one, in the pants, cocked & locked, is to close to the family jewels..

I carry to protect them ...Have you considered that cocked and locked has an extra safety over DAO striker fired?

With a Kahr, as an example, its safe because:

1. You keep your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until you acquire a target in your sights and are ready to shoot.
2. The trigger must be pulled
3. The holster protects the trigger

With the SIGP238...all of the above apply and then one more...a heavy duty thumb safety has to be moved.

Perhaps you need a Kevlar cup? :tongue:

Both triggers are nominally rated at 7.5 lbs.

[TriggerMan]

I agree ..
Condition one, in the pants, cocked & locked, is to close to the family jewels..

I carry to protect them ...Just goofing on ya a little bit.

[jocko]

what if ur a woman, do they have family jewels???Just askin.

[Ricky59]

But... I have carried my sig p238 locked & cocked for years..
and being a lefty the safety is on the outboard side..
few times I've looked down to my surprise in the safety was off..
I just wish they would of made a grip safety like my kimber 1911...
I could put the blame on my holster.. I was using an uncle mikes in the pants.. now I use a crossbreed holster for my Kahr pm9

[Ricky59]

what if ur a woman, do they have family jewels???Just askin.

They are the keeper of the jewels...