View Full Version : kahr steel frame guns Cast or forged frames
kerby9mm
01-30-2012, 06:43 AM
Does anyone know for sure if the Kahr stainless steel frames are cast or forged? I have read that Caspian 1911 frames are cast and Ruger frames have been since the beginning so not necessarily a bad thing. I suspect they are cast. Just wanted to know.
muggsy
01-30-2012, 07:36 AM
Forgings are generally considered stronger than castings as the forging process sets up a grain structure within the metal. Castings are generally less malleable than forgings. Castings have come a long way in recent years and precision cast parts require a lot less machining than forged parts which hold manufacturing costs down. I prefer forged parts, but I'm old school. I can't tell you if the frame in a Kahr pistol is forged or cast, but I doubt that it would make much difference in quality. All of the polymers frame Kahrs are injection molded.
skiflydive
01-30-2012, 07:54 AM
Casting. N: A collection of porosities and inclusions in a random pattern held loosely together within a matrix of unknown metallurgical characteristic.
They may be neither.
Forging is not terribly efficient for productio. Machined from,solid is now very cost effective.
Most likely machined from castings, or machined from solid.
Folks tend to think of forged or cast, often mistake forgsd with machined .
kerby9mm
01-30-2012, 11:13 AM
Are there forged and cast solid that frames are cut or machined from. I am confused by the tech talk. I guess I was curious as to the quality of the frames. I own two Kahr mk's
FLBri
01-30-2012, 11:21 AM
I really have no clue, but I would guess from the variation I see frame to frame ... and inaccuracies in the shapes from frame to frame, that are are not straight cast, but rather machined from solid or machined from cast.
getsome
01-30-2012, 11:55 AM
Most likely Kahr steel frames are machined from a casting....Ruger has been investment casting 1911 frames for several manufacturers for many years before they decided to start selling their own branded 1911 pistol...
The reason is because Ruger has years of experience in investment casting and it is very expensive to set up a foundry from scratch so other companies can buy the blanks from Ruger and then do the CNC work in house then complete and assemble the pistol and still make a profit...
There is nothing at all wrong with a properly done investment casting or MIM casting and the frinished part is just as functional as a forged part...
Investment casting is the process of melting metals like steel, aluminum or cast iron to a totally liquid state and pouring it into a mold until cooled and a solid again to be CNC machined...
Forging is stronger and involves heating steel to a white hot malleable state but not quite melted then smashing the metal in a hammer forge and die under tremendous pressure until the part is the shape needed and then completed by CNC machining for the final finished part...Some common things that are forged are hand tools, some automobile parts like pistons and crankshafts for racing engines and most any part that needs to be high strength but made over and over again because it's a very expensive process for low volume part manufacturing...
kerby9mm
01-30-2012, 12:24 PM
Do you think cast will rust quicker than forged even though it is stainless? I have seen some stainless guns rust.
getsome
01-30-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm not sure about the rust issue but I've never seen a stainless gun really rust badly only slightly discolor and maybe look blotchy but with a little polich like Flitz or Wenol on a soft wrag will bring the finish right back...
My PM40 is the black DLC finish which is holding up well but in time will start showing holster wear but thats ok with me as I look at my Kahr as a tool to save my life or my family with and not as a piece of jewelry or something shiny...
Stainless steel is not rust proof but is very rust resistant...There are many different grades of stainless steel and all must contain at least 10% chromium to be called stainless...The type used for gun manufacturing wouldn't be suitable for knife blades or medical instruments....
If you take a magnet and touch a stainless gun it will slightly attract due to the grade needed for gun manufacturing containing a higher carbon content and is a slightly softer, less brittle stainless steel necessary to be machined into intricate parts...
When they first started to make semi auto pistols from stainless steel they had lots of problem with galling which is when two pieces of the same grade stainless rub together they almost want to attract and not move freely...The Bren 10mm pistols suffered from this problem and also had many cases of slide and frame cracking due to the wrong grade of stainless being used and the violent recoil of 10mm ammo on what was essentially a 9mm size frame...
Later gun makers found that if they used two different grades of stainless between the frame and a slightly harder grade in the slide the galling problem was solved and is no longer an issue...
When polymer frames first came out people thought they wouldn't hold up but they did and are now taking over the gun market...Whatever gun frame type you choose will be fine...Polymer is much lighter but causes the pistol to have more recoil due to weight...Aluminum and steel frames are more traditional and offer less recoil in a given caliber but are less pleasant to have to carry around every day...Choose what ever floats your boat....:yo:
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