what do you guysthink of Derringers for a real ccw

[pocket]

i figure it can't hurt to keep an extra firearm if a BG manages to get it, your change pocket is your life saver. Two shots of a .32 magnum will do the job. I saw an expenive piece that had a barrel and shot 6 .32 magnum's. It makes a nice combo with a PM9? Also, it is a sure bang!

[Thunder71]

MK9 on belt, PM9 on the ankle... I'm good. :)

[TheTman]

I'd rather have a bigger cartridge, say a 38 Special.

[LaP]

I've been concidering a derringer for backup. I'm also looking at the revolver models offered by North American Arms. I'm leaning towards .22 magnum. Five shots of .22mag at close range would be a handy option.

http://www.northamericanarms.com/firearms/magnums/wasp.html

[hpg]

No thankyou.

[JohnR]

I would.

http://bondarms.com/wp-content/uploads/snakeslayerIV-300x219.gif

Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV. Available in just about any caliber you'd want, from .22 magnum up to .410 shot shell, and everything in between.

[joshh]

i have an naa 22mag and its the LAST thing i would want to use. that snake slayer with a couple pdx 410s might be sweet tho! i wonder if its MA/CT compliant? hahaha

[robdnor]

that snake slayer or similar... if i were to choose something smaller than my kahr, then its a kahr and an lcp (already owned)... though a derringer with .40, .45, .45lc or .410 would be all i would even consider when thinking that small... with virtually no barrel i at least want a know performer to be with me.. i know a 22 can and will work but if im that desperate i want the best chance i can

[Longitude Zero]

Now way in hell would I CCW a derringer. That is inadequate mission foresight. Kinda like going against an M1 Abrams with an AR, ain't going to work well.

As for .22 for self defense...PUHLEEZE...

[TominCA]

They worked for the old timers

[ltxi]

They worked for the old timers

Why you pickin' on me?

[tv_racin_fan]

Seems like it would make a good BUG on an ankle rig or in a pocket.

[JFootin]

Seems like it would make a good BUG on an ankle rig or in a pocket.

Actually, the Cowboy with 3" barrel would work better. In fact, they have the Mini with 2 1/2" barrel that will still shoot 2 1/2" .410 shells. That one with the 4" barrel is longer than a CM9.

[tv_racin_fan]

I don't recall the OP asking about a specific model. Personally I would agree that a PM9 or the CM9 would be a better alternative IF something of that size was in question. Just the same I can see carrying something smaller in some fashion.

[whitemule]

i figure it can't hurt to keep an extra firearm if a BG manages to get it, your change pocket is your life saver. Two shots of a .32 magnum will do the job. I saw an expenive piece that had a barrel and shot 6 .32 magnum's. It makes a nice combo with a PM9? Also, it is a sure bang!

Well, I've honestly never considered a derringer, but if I had the spare change I might try one. I don't see much advantage to a derringer over, say, a Kahr P380 or my little Ruger LCP as a BUG, but maybe I'm missing something. Hey, what the heck, try one...just don't forget and leave your main carry piece home.

[KMA]

IMO there are much better options than a Derringer and than the .32 cal.

[apheod]

i think i'd go hand to hand with my spyderco paramilitary before pulling a .22 derringer... do more damage if you're skilled with a blade at close range, and at 20m+? forget a derringer.

drawing from a pocket is generally slow and clumsy unless you sense trouble coming and already have the pistol palmed.

pm9 or a 380 is small enough to pocket as a backup.

[LMT42]

Now way in hell would I CCW a derringer. That is inadequate mission foresight. Kinda like going against an M1 Abrams with an AR, ain't going to work well.

As for .22 for self defense...PUHLEEZE...

To each their own, but self defense isn't always about killing multiple determined attackers. Sometimes you just need a deterrent to convince the BG(s) to leave you alone.

http://texasfred.net/archives/2610

I'd feel plenty confident carrying a six or seven shot .22 magnum. Of course, I live in Texas and don't have to worry about people wearing multiple layers or thick, heavy clothing.

[Longitude Zero]

To each their own, but self defense isn't always about killing multiple determined attackers. Sometimes you just need a deterrent to convince the BG(s) to leave you alone.

And the bigger/nastier looking the gun is all the better. A full sized 45 will deter more folks than a pipsqueak little 22 and I speak from personal experience. Bigger IS better.

[apheod]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/armybass/29-4030.jpg

But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, PUNK?

[BrewerGeorge]

They're okay if you can't get anything better, but the fact is that you can get much better now. Their technology has been surpassed.

I had one many years ago, but replaced it with a .25 Jetfire that was smaller and lighter, not to mention having a real trigger and six rounds. I haven't looked at the tiny guns recently, but I imagine there are even better choices now.

And anybody who bashes the .22 or .25 or .32 as useless for self-defense is missing the point. Is a .45 better? Of course. Duh. But weapons that shoot the tiny rounds aren't competing with .45's, they're competing with nothing - or fists and beer bottles. You might be one of those hardcore guys who swears he never leaves the house without his 1911. More power to you. Some of us, though, live in the real world where there are occasions where it's one of the tiny pistols or nothing - or just plain skipping those occasions I guess. In those instances, 6 rounds of .22 are a heck of a lot better than nothing.

[Longitude Zero]

Some of us, though, live in the real world where there are occasions where it's one of the tiny pistols or nothing - or just plain skipping those occasions I guess. In those instances, 6 rounds of .22 are a heck of a lot better than nothing.

So do I and in the grand scheme of thing my CW45 is marginally bigger than a .22, .25, .32 but is far superior in potential effectivenss. Those little calibers are far to sensitive to shot placement under a high stress adrenaline filled moment when most people spray and pray.

Far more than once in my career I have seen a full grown barroom drunk take multiple rounds of those little calibers in the chest and abdomen, take the gun away from the shooter and in one instance made him eat it.

On this we will simply have to agree to disagree.

[jlottmc]

Umm last time I checked, the NAA mini holds 5 rounds of .22mag or .22LR and reload times are slow at best. I'll stick to what I have, it works.

[BrewerGeorge]

So do I and in the grand scheme of thing my CW45 is marginally bigger than a .22, .25, .32 but is far superior in potential effectivenss...
"Marginally bigger?" The CW45 is a great, small .45, but with respect it's about 2 inches longer, 2 inches taller, and 8 oz heavier than the Jetfire. Those differences are greater than the ones between a Glock 17 and Glock 26. You can put a Jetfire in the pocket of jogging shorts and it won't print.

I do definitely take your point about how ineffective those rounds can be, but I still think they're better than nothing. Don't you?

[muggsy]

"Marginally bigger?" The CW45 is a great, small .45, but with respect it's about 2 inches longer, 2 inches taller, and 8 oz heavier than the Jetfire. Those differences are greater than the ones between a Glock 17 and Glock 26. You can put a Jetfire in the pocket of jogging shorts and it won't print.

I do definitely take your point about how ineffective those rounds can be, but I still think they're better than nothing. Don't you?

More deer have been taken with the .22 LR than all other cartridges combined.

[JFootin]

More deer have been taken with the .22 LR than all other cartridges combined.

You are kidding, right?

[BrewerGeorge]

You are kidding, right?
You might have to track 'em a long time...:p

[Jeremiah/Az]

I have several derringers of different calibers, but I only carry them around the home place for rattlesnakes with snake shot. Anything bigger than a .22 is too heavy for only 2 shots. The P380 is lighter than my .38 derringers.

[TominCA]

I had a 38 spl derringer once - It had absolutely the worst trigger pull I have ever seen on any weapon! The safety was the half **** notch (or hammer down on an inertia firing pin - I don't recall) and because of the trigger being sooooo Bad the effective range was only a few feet - but it made a pretty good backup gun -

[Longitude Zero]

I do definitely take your point about how ineffective those rounds can be, but I still think they're better than nothing. Don't you?

A .22 beats nothing but not by much.

[TriggerMan]

To each their own, but self defense isn't always about killing multiple determined attackers. Sometimes you just need a deterrent to convince the BG(s) to leave you alone.

http://texasfred.net/archives/2610

I'd feel plenty confident carrying a six or seven shot .22 magnum. Of course, I live in Texas and don't have to worry about people wearing multiple layers or thick, heavy clothing.Ten onces, nine shots, thumb safety and decent DA trigger. Cute too!

[yote]

Two shots with a 32 is not very much. There are similar sized semi autos with more appropriate calibers and higher capacity. Two rounds may not stop one person who might be better armed.

[jocko]

if u feel good with a 22, stay with it or a 32 also stay with it. Its totally ur decision.

[jocko]

if u feel good with a 22, stay with it or a 32 also stay with it. Its totally ur decision. If I knew the Bg was carrying a 22 o a 32 and the laying field was level. I would feel alot more secure, unfortuanatle I dom't think the BG's carry 22's any more. They to have gotten wiser:yo:

[wyntrout]

C0ck! Bang! C0ck! Bang! OH SH!T!!:eek:

TIMEOUT! DO-OVER!!:behindsofa:

Dang! Coulda' had a "real" gun!:rolleyes:

JMHO, YMMV

Wynn:D:banplease:

[1radman]

45 or 9mm!
http://heizerfirearms.com/

[wyntrout]

Yeah! Could have a P380 loaded with BB 90-gr +P JHP and 6+1+7 rounds for carry. I have three 7-round extended grip mags for the range and CCW reloads.

Those loads approximate .38 special +P loads. More is better!

Wynn:)

[1radman]

Yeah! Could have a P380 loaded with BB 90-gr +P JHP and 6+1+7 rounds for carry. I have three 7-round extended grip mags for the range and CCW reloads.

Those loads approximate .38 special +P loads. More is better!

Wynn:)
Yep, more is better...I use that line often.
Anything new and interesting usually catches my eye though...a BUG in 45ACP?

[wyntrout]

I had a Stevens .22LR/20Ga. over and under back in the 70's. I drilled some holes in the stock for ammo storage under the butt plate. That stuff got severe damage from the recoil of the 20 gauge. I have seen this in several situations and you have to realize the consequences of recoil to ammo stored on a firearm.

I always wondered why ammo didn't fire in the tubular magazines of center-fire rifles, as the Winchester or Marlin lever-action rifles.

Wynn:)

[1radman]

I had a Stevens .22LR/20Ga. over and under back in the 70's. I drilled some holes in the stock for ammo storage under the butt plate. That stuff got severe damage from the recoil of the 20 gauge. I have seen this in several situations and you have to realize the consequences of recoil to ammo stored on a firearm.

I alwaysed wonder why ammo didn't fire in the tubular magazines of center-fire rifles, as the Winchester or Marlin lever-action rifles.

Wynn:)
Good point Wyntrout...wonder if the mfgr anticipated that and compensated somehow.
Sure looks like it would disappear in your pocket though.

[wyntrout]

I never had to USE the emergency weapons from our survival seatpacks, but I always wondered about the spare ammo stored vertically... perpendicular to the recoil... in the Mark 10(?) or whatever... 410-ga/22 or larger center-fire survival rifle/shotgun. Fortunately, I never had to eject or bailout of an aircraft... just the truck-towed parasail at survival school at Fairchild AFB, WA (1967) and the terrific parasailing ride on the powerboat at sea survival school at Homestead AFB back in 1973... just before the movie JAWS came out! They had a deck on the rear and a large winch with about 700 feet of cable to hoist you up so that you could release and practice your water landing procedures. The water was crystal clear and we hadn't heard of any sharks... not since the fun-loving guys at sea survival in Japan dragged a 6 to 7-foot hammerhead shark they had just caught in the water past us after we were dropped into the water with a mafunctioning 20-man raft... that we had to manually inflate!:eek:

Those were fun days!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

C0ck! Bang! C0ck! Bang! OH SH!T!!:eek:

TIMEOUT! DO-OVER!!:behindsofa:

Dang! <SMACK... palm plant to the forehead>

Coulda' had a "real" gun!:rolleyes:

JMHO, YMMV

Wynn:D:banplease:

I might say... that was you... with the two-shooter.

Me:
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG! ...reloading... Click... click... clack!

BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG! ... or as needed! I can hit a barn!

6+1+8!

Wynn:)

[WMD]

Originally Posted by muggsy
More deer have been taken with the .22 LR than all other cartridges combined.



You are kidding, right?

Muggsy is not kidding. 22 LR is the caliber of choice for poachers. One shot in the head drops the Deer like a rock. Not sure why so many folks underestimate a 22 LR. I would not want to get hit with one. Granted it does not have the power of a .45acp but...... it is going to hurt and can be an effective deterent. Certainly better then nothing IMO. :)

[WMD]

I had a Stevens .22LR/20Ga. over and under back in the 70's. I drilled some holes in the stock for ammo storage under the butt plate. That stuff got severe damage from the recoil of the 20 gauge. I have seen this in several situations and you have to realize the consequences of recoil to ammo stored on a firearm.

I always wondered why ammo didn't fire in the tubular magazines of center-fire rifles, as the Winchester or Marlin lever-action rifles.

Wynn:)


If the ammo has "pointed" bullets, the recoil will absolutely set them off. That is why you ONLY use round nose bullets in tubular magazines.

[wyntrout]

I never had a centerfire rifle with a tubular magazine, but I always wondered about that because most bullets were "pointy" or almost so! I don't recall any magazines exploding, but I could have missed something before I was so technologically "connected".

Wynn:)

[TheTman]

22 Magnum Critical Defense;
Velocity and Energy from 1-1/7" Pistol Barrel:
Muzzle Velocity: 1000 fps
Muzzle Energy: 100 ft/lbs
50 Yard Velocity: 926 fps
50 Yard Energy: 86 ft/lbs

I wouldnt want to get shot with it.

[jocko]

for 22's is not the primer portion on the rim of the case and not in the center, therefore OK to load 22 rounds nose to butt, but opposite for centerfire.

[wyntrout]

The .22 Stinger gets that kind of performance... cheaper... about 1,000 fps from my 2.5" Walter TPH.

The Speer .22 Mag Gold Dots Short Barrel are made for 2" barrels and might be a good choice. I've thought of getting an 8-round Taurus to shoot these... for my wife, but she's "happy" with the H&R 929 loaded with 9 Stingers... 4" barrel.

Wynn:)

No magnums tested, yet, but maybe eventually:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

Wynn:)

[Gliderguy]

22 mag critical defense: 45 gr bullet at 1000 fps from 1 7/8 inch barrel.
22 lr stinger is 30 gr bullet and barrel half again as long.

I once finished a whitetail buck that wasn't dead when i reached him with my 1 1/8 inch barrelled NAA 22 mag. The bullet left quite a star on the back side of the skull after entering and totally penetrating the brain. That critical defense MIGHT have exited. It wouldn't need much more energy. having said all that, I would take my LCP fully loaded with laser at 14 oz over the 7 oz NAA. The NAA CAN DEFINITELY conceal in places that other guns won't. That critical defense load is way past 25 acp and mighty close to 32 acp energy levels.

ALL about shot placement. At contact distance I can definitely hit what I touch with the NAA. The Ruger is viable with the laser at a good bit further.

You have to "run what you brung" Just "brung" what you can!

[Gliderguy]

Correction. The Stinger is a 32 grain bullet...

[Cyterio]

I've listened to quite a few interviews from tramua surgeons on gun shot wounds, they all say the same thing; They can't tell the difference between .22, 9mm, 38sp, etc. I don't currently have a link but the .22 is the most deadly caliber excluding LE statistics because none use .22LR.
I believe the argument lies more with penetration through other objects such as doors, walls, or cars. Obviously the larger, more powerful calibers will be superior to the .22 but I would take a .22 any day for personal defense over nothing at all.

[bikerbill]

Personally, I'd rather have a rock ... I had a Bond Cowboy Defender in 9mm, got it because it looked cool ... but for SD, it's a total waste unless it's all you have ... it's VERY heavy, very slow to reload, have to cock against a very heavy spring for each shot, short grip makes it hard to control ... I got a lot of comments when I took it to the range, but IMHO it's basically a toy to play with, not a serious backup ... when I want a small backup now, I grab my NAA Pug, five rounds of .22mag 45gr Hornady Critical Defense, far lighter and easier to control, I can actually talk about accuracy with the little gun ... I finally traded the Bond in; it sat in my dealer's used case for more than a year before it disappeared ...

[carkarrier]

i think i'd go hand to hand with my spyderco paramilitary before pulling a .22 derringer... do more damage if you're skilled with a blade at close range, and at 20m+? forget a derringer.

drawing from a pocket is generally slow and clumsy unless you sense trouble coming and already have the pistol palmed.

pm9 or a 380 is small enough to pocket as a backup.
I don't believe a blade would do much damage if you got two 30 grain Hornadys in the head---just my opinion. I carry my Hi Standard 22 mag. when I need a backup to my CM9 or S & W 469. Neither can be concealed like the 22 mag. I attached a wallet holster picture and a camera light meter bag. Neither require a vest, coat etc. I also use an ankle holster, but I don't like having to reach down to come to battery. Keep your knife, I'll keep my derringer---just my opinon!!

[jocko]

I think I would totally round that front site off though, that way when u shoot twice and miss or even hit the 300# bad guy, when he takes tha tgun away from u ad shoves it up ur ass, I might not hurt until around the trigger guard area. I think I would have to revamp that open trigger guard to. Just sayin

[Gliderguy]

If you fill in the trigger guard then you can't tip the barrels down to load it. I will refrain from commenting on whether or not this is a bad thing. :madgrin:

I like the 22 mag, but for the size/weight would prob run with a p380/ LCP or P3AT. and actually do have both the NAA 22 mag and LCP.

That new 5 seven round isn't all that much more potent than a 22 mag with some barrel length to get it going. Cant quite figure out what all the rage about the 5 seven is other than can haul and fire a LOT of ammo without getting sore or going too deaf.:9:

[OldLincoln]

You are kidding, right?

I'm the 3rd generation owner of a 22lr octagon barreled rifle that has brought home a few deer according top my stepdad. His story about his dad in the early 1900's.

[carkarrier]

I think I would totally round that front site off though, that way when u shoot twice and miss or even hit the 300# bad guy, when he takes tha tgun away from u ad shoves it up ur ass, I might not hurt until around the trigger guard area. I think I would have to revamp that open trigger guard to. Just sayin

Gee, I thought this was a forum for professional people to share their OPINIONS on topics supposedly with some decorum......guess I was wrong!!!

[muggsy]

Any gun is better than no gun. Not my first choice.

[Gliderguy]

Amen, muggsy!

If that gun has to be limited to two rounds, however, make mine a 12 gauge.

[Planedude]

Okay, not my first choice in a real gunfight with real BGs, but let me tell you a story here.
Many years ago, before Texas had a CHL, my brother was a reserve police officer. This allowed him to have a carry peice. Now my brothers real job was as a high end printer, doing stuff like corperate annual reports and glossy sales flyers. He worked the night shift back then, in a not so nice part of Dallas. On Friday nights he would go up the road to a local liquor store, cash his check and talk with his buddy who ran the place.
On the night in question My brother was packing his High Standard .22 mag derringer that he carried in an old Galco Derringer wallet holster. The thing I've alway found about that gun is it is really LOUD when fired. It also blows out quite the fireball at dusk or at night. Kind of like the "noisy cricket gun" from the Men in Black movie...
But back to the story. My brother left the store with his pork rines and a beer then went out to his 1978 Chevy pickup. He has describe the area as an open parking lot with 20 yards to the nearest cover and it seemed safe enough. It was a warm night and he had the trucks windows down. As he closed the door and set his stuff in the seat next to him, a guy pops into the window with a knife and demands the money. Well, my brother felt a little dumb, getting caught flat like that, but he remained calm and assured the young man that he would give him what he wanted. Of course what he pulled from his pocket was the High Standard/ wallet combo. As he passed it out the window, finger now on the trigger and pointed down and slightly back at the BG, my brother squeezed off the first round. Did I mention that this combo was really loud and threw out a huge fireball? Well as soon as the round went off, my brother hit the door handel and banged all his weight into the door, throwing it open hard. Out of the truck, second round at the ready and now pumped to the max, my brother was stoked for what ever came next. His discription of what he found still makes me smile.
He said "Would you belive Homey fricking evaporated..." With 20 yards to the nearest cover my brother could not belive he could move that fast. My brother had to drop on a knee and check under the truck as he was sure that jumping under the truck was the only cover the BG could have got to before my brother blew out of the truck cab. No such luck under the truck, that BG was gone! He thought about calling it in for a second, but with no discription to give beyond "black male" and not a clue as to where he went. My brother decided to skip 5 hours of paperwork and go back to make some more money at his paying job.
Soooo... Is a .22 Win Mag Derringer the perfect carry gun. Ummm, no, but on that night, in that place it was enough gun for the job. It did'nt hit the BG, knock him down and render him no threat till the cops arrived. What it did do is motivate the BG to do the six block sprint in six seconds... flat. So in this case it was all the gun that was needed.
Y'all have a good one.

[AJBert]

Really? None of you want a tiny little ol' .22 when you have nothing else to pull out? I sure hope your extremeties are registered as lethal weapons with your local sherrif's dept. because mine sure aren't. Maybe you have more trust in that old pocket knife your grandpa gave you than a little tiny pocket pistol.

Here's a hint, that pocket pistol has just a little more reach than that Boy Scout knife you got when you were ten years old.

[HenryinFlorida]

I think a derringer falls under the category of "better than nothing" but I'll stick to my LCP for my pocket pistol.

[roskee]

No thankyou.

+1 .32 is the smallest I'd go.

[kahrnut1]

i carry a bond snake slayer 410/45 crossdraw on belt when riding magna. fastest gun i can get to sitting on bike. i have found that just letting the jacket gape open a little bit keeps people away or riders that want to know about it end up grouped around in a discussion. i still have pm9 in pocket holster. a good rider buddy in local harley group brings everbody in group over to see it.

[Dmitri]

In those instances, 6 rounds of .22 are a heck of a lot better than nothing.
Better than nothing, sure, but:

.25 jetfire:
4.7" x 3.4" x .9", 9.9 oz

Kahr P380:
4.9" x 3.9" x .75", 9.97 oz

That's a very easy choice, IMO. ;)
The Kahr is actually thinner, so even less of a print.

.380, esp. the +P kind, is a serious (or at least 'serious enough') SD round.
.25 is... well, it's better than .22... But... :)

[jzorn]

If I was going to carry a derringer, it would be the 45/410 combination. I like the thought of having a 410 shotgun in my pocket. Don't need to be a very good aim either

[ParabellumJ]

No way I would ccw a Derringer. If I had to absolutely have a BUG on me, I would pocket or ankle carry a P380.

[ParabellumJ]

Really? None of you want a tiny little ol' .22 when you have nothing else to pull out? I sure hope your extremeties are registered as lethal weapons with your local sherrif's dept. because mine sure aren't. Maybe you have more trust in that old pocket knife your grandpa gave you than a little tiny pocket pistol.

Here's a hint, that pocket pistol has just a little more reach than that Boy Scout knife you got when you were ten years old.

I don't think people are against having a backup, just not that one. There are .380 autos that are not too much bigger with a lot more capacity than that tiny little ol' .22. Just sayin'.

[Kahrdriver64]

Not for me. The few derringers I've messed with had horrendous triggers. My dad picked one up at a yard sale for $5. I tinkered on it for an hour before I told him to put it on his next yard sale for $10. Total POS.

I carry a knife like the kabar boga as a last line of defense.

If I had to put together my ultimate full boat carry ,

T40 in my left armpit
K40 IWB 4 oclock
P380 right ankle for lH
large Kbar folding knife right pocket
Kbar BOGA next to my two mag paddle at 8 oclock

[wyntrout]

Better than nothing, sure, but:

.25 jetfire:
4.7" x 3.4" x .9", 9.9 oz

Kahr P380:
4.9" x 3.9" x .75", 9.97 oz

That's a very easy choice, IMO. ;)
The Kahr is actually thinner, so even less of a print.

.380, esp. the +P kind, is a serious (or at least 'serious enough') SD round.
.25 is... well, it's better than .22... But... :)

For years I carried a Walther TPH in .22LR and kept Stingers in it... the most effective .22LR for short barrels... close to 1000fps out of a 2.5" barrel... but don't expect bullet expansion... deep penetration, though.

One day I found that an armadillo had tunneled under my tool shed and decided to fire a few rounds up the hole. The noise was really muffled but the pistol jammed on shot #3. I decided then that I wanted a centerfire-fed and more substantial round. .22LR are more subject to duds from carry and weather extremes than centerfire ammo... good centerfire ammo.

The P380 was coming out and I decided that it was perfect... about the same size of my SS Walther TPH and actually just a hair lighter, though not quite as slim. TPH with 6+1 = 14.75 ounces and the P380 with 6+1 BB = 13.95 ounces. While awaiting my night-sighted P380... FOR ELEVEN months... I joined this forum and found everyone extolling the virtues of the PM9. I found a used one... DLC with NS and LNIB at the next gun show. I walked out the door with that and was feeling like I had found the Holy Grail! Since then I've added a few more Kahrs and even another P380 for Wifey's get-home gun for WTSHTF. I'll load hers with the mild, but effective, Ranger T 95-gr JHPs, while I carry the Buffalo Bore 90-gr Gold Dots in +P.

The P380 with 6+1 and a 7-round reload... at least... are the minimum requirements for me... and I usually carry at least the PM9 and rarely the PM45. Shorts and polos down here in sunny Florida and light is better sometimes.

Two-shooters might be good for better than nothing BACK UP, but you can get a "real" gun in the same size and have more than two shots... and more effective ammo. I don't care how great a shot you think you are, but two tiny shots or two big ones might not be enough for every situation in a u-bet-ur-life scenario.

JMHO!

Wynn:D

[Rio Vista Slim]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/RioVistaSlim/IMG_3632.jpg

After a 41 year railroad career, I was given this Bond Arms Cowboy .45 Colt/.410 gauge derringer at my retirement party by my fellow employes. It will NEVER be sold or traded away. It is as solid as a tank, well made, and totally reliable. It is also a fun gun to shoot, on occasions when I do so.

However, it is too heavy and bulky for me to carry concealed, does not have an adequate capacity, and as others have said, has a very strong mainspring, which would be a negative IF the gun had to be quickly cocked and fired.

[Sage]

They worked for the old timers

The long dead old timers. I just never liked anything about a Derringer.

[Planedude]

The "old timers" faced drunken guys with 32-20 six shooters, loaded with just five rounds.

We worry about BGs from the hood with high cap, 40 S&W Glocks...

But again, sometime a Derringer is enough for the job.

[jocko]

other than maybe pretty, they are darnnear as big as some of the small's on the market and heavier even. The one p;icutred thous is indeed a well made derringer

I gotta tellya though, last week I was at a smallgunshow and they had alot of the JUDGES there, but allwere 2.5" 410 and I want the 3" model if Iam gonna pop for opne. I truly think this would be anideal homegun for the wife . that is an awesome round the 410 3" with 00buck in it. It seems most stock the 2.5" models, why is that. ??? IMO the 3" 410 trumps the 2.5" 410 any day, price wise and availability wise to.

I am weakening though. anyone own one that can give me ur opinion....

[Planedude]

I went to the range awile back with my Son-inLaw and his buddy. I was told that he was considering a handgun purchase at the next gun show but had no Ideal what he wanted to buy. I offered to bring one of everything, from .22 autos to my 1911s and several revolvers for him to try.
When we got to the range, he had three guns borrowed from his Grandfather and needed ammo for them. One of them, he said needed .45 colt (ouch) and at the range that was $55 bucks a box. As he threw the box of Bufflo Bore up on the counter the clerck asked "what are you shooting"?
Turnned out to be a Judge. "Oh, for that gun" the counter guy gushed "you want a box of these..." and replaced the BB for the 2.5in Winchester .410 triplex (?) load. The load with three 32cal discs and some shot. That was $18 bucks a box and the young man bought two.
During our range trip I did let this young guy shoot all mine to try them. He liked my P380, hated (too much recoil) my CW40, loved the .22 autos and thought he looked good shooting the 1911. He liked all the revolvers, but did'nt shoot the J frames very well and he thought six rounds was not enough fun per loading.
Eventually he insisted I shoot Grandpa's Judge. I hung up a new Zombie Osama target, rolled it out to 7yrds and blasted it with a gunfull as fast as I could pull the trigger. It cut Osama in half as his lower torso and feet fell into the lane as I tried to reel him up. The two young guys with me were very impressed, I guess I was too, somewhat, but paper ain't a BG with some drugs in him.
Recoil was BRISK, think Redhawk with a mid power .44 mag load. I don't think my wife would trade her 12 gage at the shoulder for a .410 in the hand with that recoil. It was interesting to shoot it several times, but it did'nt motavate me to go buy one. I have stayed with my J frame .38 for the house and my Kahrs for the carry.
As for the young man with us that day, well he went to the next Gun Show with my Son-in-law and myself. He bought a Ruger auto, 9mm, with high cap mags.
The Judge is cool enough, but I could only carry it in a fanny pack, at best. The .410 SD loads out now are really nice though. Might be a good snake gun if your "country living"...
Try one before you buy one.;)

[DKD]

JOCKO, My wife wanted a 3" model Judge a couple years ago so I bought it for her at Christmas.She loves it and keeps it by her recliner in the family room. It is the 2.5" .410 model but it shoots very well with both the specialty loads as well as jacketed 45 colt loads. I even had a special spring kit installed in it for her which reduced the double action pull weight by about 25%. From the shooying I have done and seen, thsi is quite an effective round especially at 7-15 yards, making it an effective home self dense revolver. I suppose the long and short of it is at closer ranges the 3" .410 matters less than you might think....and the 45 colt is what it is a potent defender.
She also carries it when hunting and when we are around and about our hunt lease where it is devastating on rattlesnakes we run into in Georgia.

[jocko]

to me it has to be a super home defense gun. something that if needed willdo the job without being dea accurate,and also with full knowledge that your notgonna shoot and miss with a normal gun and thebullet go out the window or through the walland hit a neighbor across the street drinking a beer. Having never shot the 2.5or 3" ur mopre right in ur statement DKD. at 10 yards I would think u would see nadda difference. Icould careless aboutthe 45 long colt buthe 410 version is stillin my mind when ever I go to agun show.

car glove box gun has to be a dandy to, backpack also but home in the vanity drawer or on the mantel is the ultimate home defense gun. It is not small in size but again not sure Taurus desinged it for ccw purposes eitther. I have two boxes of S & B 2.5 410 with 00 buck 5 pellets. tell me that an't gonna hurt big time. I would buy the 3" bbl model to but I think for some reason I woulod want the 3" chamber model..

[JFootin]

Well, it will conceal well under a judge's robe. Just saying.

3hIcKkKID8k

[Planedude]

I would be hard pressed to belive that a 3in load is much different from a 2.5 load (terminal ballistics) in the SD ammo currently out there.

In .410 hunting ammo maybe...;)

[JERRY]

two shots of anything is cutting it close, but its better than no gun at all.

but why limit yourself to a two shot derringer of a 5 shot single action .22 mini revolver? compared to a LWS32 they are slower into action, less accurate, and harder to shoot well in a hurry. also the larger caliber two shot derringers weight a bit more than smaller guns of higher capasity and quicker into action.

for a tackle box, snake, walk in the woods gun for plinking why not? but for serious self defense there are far better options out there unless you simply dont have a choice.

[Gray_Rider]

I had a Davis .22 magnum I sometimes carried as a 3rd gun in an ankle holster. It was fun to shoot, very reliable with a huge fireball and report, but slow to cycle the hammer, 2 shots of .22 magnum, VERY slow to reload, and very heavy for its size.

I reluctantly sold it because I couldn't fit it into my defensive arsenal. Too easy to carry a Kel Tec P32 and an extra magazine. A gun fight means exactly that. A fight with a gun, sometimes at horrificly close ranges when someone is doing their dead level best to make you "all gone". The Martin attack on George Zimmerman is a good example. Zimmerman may have had only a second or two more before his head was bashed in or he blacked out. Something conviently left out of the news media circus.

Just this old Secesh's 2 cents worth.

Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!

[Gray_Rider]

Okay, not my first choice in a real gunfight with real BGs, but let me tell you a story here.

On the night in question My brother was packing his High Standard .22 mag derringer that he carried in an old Galco Derringer wallet holster. The thing I've alway found about that gun is it is really LOUD when fired. It also blows out quite the fireball at dusk or at night. Kind of like the "noisy cricket gun" from the Men in Black movie...
But back to the story. My brother left the store with his pork rines and a beer then went out to his 1978 Chevy pickup. He has describe the area as an open parking lot with 20 yards to the nearest cover and it seemed safe enough. It was a warm night and he had the trucks windows down. As he closed the door and set his stuff in the seat next to him, a guy pops into the window with a knife and demands the money. Well, my brother felt a little dumb, getting caught flat like that, but he remained calm and assured the young man that he would give him what he wanted. Of course what he pulled from his pocket was the High Standard/ wallet combo. As he passed it out the window, finger now on the trigger and pointed down and slightly back at the BG, my brother squeezed off the first round. Did I mention that this combo was really loud and threw out a huge fireball? Well as soon as the round went off, my brother hit the door handel and banged all his weight into the door, throwing it open hard. Out of the truck, second round at the ready and now pumped to the max, my brother was stoked for what ever came next. His discription of what he found still makes me smile.
He said "Would you belive Homey fricking evaporated..." With 20 yards to the nearest cover my brother could not belive he could move that fast.
Soooo... Is a .22 Win Mag Derringer the perfect carry gun. Ummm, no, but on that night, in that place it was enough gun for the job. It did'nt hit the BG, knock him down and render him no threat till the cops arrived. What it did do is motivate the BG to do the six block sprint in six seconds... flat. So in this case it was all the gun that was needed.
Y'all have a good one.

.22 Magnums out of a seriously short Derringer barrel have a fireball about .5x bigger than a softball and a report like a .38 special.

Now a Derringer story of my own....

Some time ago I knew a gunshop owner. One day many years before, a man came in looking for "The cheapest firearm you have in stock." At that time, it was a Davis Derringer in .22 long rifle for 59.95 retail. The man made the purchase with a box of ammo and left.

Some days later, the same man came back saying the gun worked well for him. Seems a perv was peeking in his pre-teen daughter's bedroom window at night. The man came again and the daughter called for her father who went to the window and fired the Derringer high into the air towards the back of a wooded unpopulated part of the property. Mr. Pervie outran two nearby rabbits and the hounds that were chasing them and was never a problem again!;):rolleyes::p

Mind you, (Attention trolling anti-gun "offer no defense" fanatics) this would NOT be my way of handling such a situation, but it wasn't my daughter they were talking about either...:cool:

My dad and some of his friends (at West Virginia Tech in the 40's) recieved notice from the wives there was a peeper in the neighborhood. They lay in wait one evening, and while the peeper did a Jessie Owens and escaped, with seven or eight former soldiers in hot pursuit, (the guy literally ran out of his shoes) he wasn't heard from again....

You are correct Planedude. The "prime directive" here is to have a gun, and be ready to use it. Larger more powerfull guns just cover more "possibles" and are therefore more desireable in criminal contact situations.

Glad your brother came out ok! He might have changed someone's whole life that night...


Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!

[Gray_Rider]

Over on on the S.W. web site, a former pilot who was shot down and then captured by two V.C., managed to kill one of his captors (head shot) with a hidden High Standard derringer they had missed in searching him. Then, he shot the 2nd V.C. (who was answering a call of nature and came rushing back to the trail) in the shoulder, finishing him with "Third Eye" Charlie Cong's liberated AK. He escaped back to U.S. lines. :D

Don't sell derringers, especially High Standard derringer's short. Another SD situation I heard about years back involved two stickup men in a barbershop that involved a HS carried by a customer. Customer shot one thug DRT (head shot) and left the 2nd a veggie (without the Tale) as it were...:rolleyes:

But with with a lowly derringer, two shots better end the dance and you better have an angel on your shoulder for good measure!

"Sing it Charlie!!!"

Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!

[Gray_Rider]

So do I and in the grand scheme of thing my CW45 is marginally bigger than a .22, .25, .32 but is far superior in potential effectivenss. Those little calibers are far to sensitive to shot placement under a high stress adrenaline filled moment when most people spray and pray.

Far more than once in my career I have seen a full grown barroom drunk take multiple rounds of those little calibers in the chest and abdomen, take the gun away from the shooter and in one instance made him eat it.

On this we will simply have to agree to disagree.

There was an instance many years ago in Randolph Co. West Virginia at a little bar called the Coach 'n Four if memory serves. The bartender shot a very well built, weight lifting, baseball bat carrying patron in the back with a full magazine of .25 ACP. The bullets didn't make it through all that meat and the patron beat the bartender to death with the bat.

In pistol fighting, hundreds of years of history favors heavy slow bullets (yes, read that .45 caliber ACP and .45 Long Colt) fired center mass stops fights reliably (but not infalliably) decade in and decade out, regardless of HP, HB, or "magic bullets". .357 HP out of 4 inch barrels are a close 2nd, but history favors the former across the board and across the generations.

Your eyewitness experience with mouse caliber failures in actual shootings gives rise to sobering thot sir! I carry one as a BUG (KelTec P32), but being made to eat the little gun after shooting it dry is, shall we say, disquieting....:behindsofa: :(.
Your above post should be posted on the mouse gun fourms....As a fair warning. Not that they listen to Mr. Marshal Or Mr. Ayoob's dire warnings about anything less than 9mm, and that in the best modern HP+P available but.....:ohmy:

God bless for such a great post!


Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!

[kwh]

No true life stories. But IMHO not so much the caliber for self defense but the problem of cocking hammer before each shot (except Hi Standard) . Did read a story once years ago, before the age of pocket semi-auto pocket pistols, where a .357 Magnum derringer was use inside a taxi . A crime was prevented, no one injured, & everyone temporarily deaf and blind.

[addictedhealer]

If I felt I needed a back up I would probably just carry a full size m&p9 or something similar.

[JohnR]

If the purpose of a derringer or mousegun is to keep in your pocket, there are some great .380s that do it better than the plinking calibers, by which I mean they're more controllable to shoot, hold more rounds, and are safer to have in the pocket. Some say .32 will get the job done, some say .380 is barely adequate, some say all pistol calibers are inadequate.

[Gray_Rider]

If the purpose of a derringer or mousegun is to keep in your pocket, there are some great .380s that do it better than the plinking calibers, by which I mean they're more controllable to shoot, hold more rounds, and are safer to have in the pocket. Some say .32 will get the job done, some say .380 is barely adequate, some say all pistol calibers are inadequate.

But history sez 4+caliber pistols work almost all the time doing what the pistol is supposed to do.

Gray_Rider
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862

[muggsy]

You are kidding, right?

Nope, poachers with jack lights taking head shots with .22 long rifle have taken far more deer than have been taken by legal means. During the depression our deer herds were decimated. Ohio had to import deer from PA to re-establish it's deer herd in Ohio.

[berettabone]

If, If, If,...........................................Nooo ooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Acasper708]

My dad carries a little daringer sometimes. Mostly when he's on his motorcycle.
I'm not sure what cal. But it's very small and better than nothing.

[garyb]

Derringers? Why not? Don't have one myself, but I used to know a guy who wore one of those tiny derringer belt buckles. Don't know if they are still around. A derringer is certainly better than nothing....some derringers are probably better than some concealed weapons people are carrying. Then again, anything is better than nothing. Why not?