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View Full Version : Buying from small local businesses



Scoundrel
01-31-2012, 08:29 PM
I'm all for buying from small, local businesses. I think the USA needs to have more of those, and more consumers need to patronize those businesses when it is reasonable to do so.

But, on the other hand, I think that small businesses need to make it reasonable for customers to do so, and not expect customers to pay significantly higher prices without correspondingly high customer service levels.


Let me tell you about a local gun shop that sprung up in my town this last fall. I noticed them because of an A-board on the road I travel a lot. I went in to check them out, and the place was still being set up. Despite the fact that I was obviously interrupting them during setup (hey, their doors were unlocked), they welcomed me warmly.

Their attitude was good and they were friendly. It was very different from other established gun shops I had been in. They didn't have a lot of inventory yet and it was chaotic, but I was impressed.

A few weeks later, I was ready to buy a gun. I had just been told about the PM9, went and rented one at a shop 25 miles away, and then also learned about the CM9. I went back to the local shop and ordered it. Production was still ramping up, and it took 2 months to get it. When I picked it up, the price was about $25 more than they had promised, but I let that slide. They had my gun.

I had ordered some magazines with it, and they did not have those. There had been ordering mistakes. Oh well. They made it right eventually (I should mention that the price on those increased a few bucks from the promised price, too).

A few months later, I went back and bought an M&P 15/22. Again, their price was not the best and I did not beat them up about it. I knew what I wanted, I told them to get it, and I paid their price for it.

Repeat, very recently, for two derringers. When one of the derringers blasted itself apart, I told them about it, but I didn't try to make it their problem. I am working with the manufacturer on it.

I had also ordered a couple of "zombie hunter" t-shirts that I saw hanging on their wall and liked. It took a couple of months for those to arrive, too. Again, ordering mistakes. I don't remember for 100% certain that they told me a different price, but when they arrived they were $30 each. I was expecting $20. Also, I found that the zombie hunter design was on the BACK of the shirt, not the front. The front has a small stupid-looking company logo for whoever designs the shirts. I felt obligated to purchase them anyway, having ordered them, and I did.


So, now you have the background. Four gun purchases with no hassles on pricing, limited amount of time spent in their shop hmmming and hawing and not buying things while taking up their time.


Now let's talk about what's really on my mind, what has just happened.

A few weeks ago, I was in the shop (when I bought those shirts and picked up the derringers), and the guy showed me an AR-15 they had put together. He said that they were going to start having ready-to-go AR-15s there, for $800, so people could just come and pick one up.

Well, a few days ago, I went back to get one. But it was nowhere to be seen. Turns out, it was in pieces in the back, and they couldn't/wouldn't reassemble it as it was for that price. But they offered to work with me on putting together one with similar features.

So we looked at some rifles and some features, and I wrote up some stuff on a sticky note, and he said he'd get back to me when the shop was less busy and he had time to look it up. The next day, he sent me an e-mail with a quote for $1049 out the door for a pre-assembled AR that wasn't what I had asked for.

I went back to the shop and we spent some more time looking at AR models. Turns out the shop was closed, but he told me to stay anyway and look. I really appreciated the amount of time he spent with me on this. But, he couldn't get exactly what I wanted, and couldn't get any lower than $979.

In fact, we were looking at one for $1286 that was probably what I wanted, more or less.

So I went looking at other local shops, with no better results, started looking online, and then found the M&P 15 Sport for $699. I asked the local store about it, and he could not get it. None of his distributors had one. But I found that Cabela's had three of them (85 miles away).

So I went to Cabela's and bought it.


Now, I am getting this big attitude from the local store guys. How could I have done that? How could I have gone and bought a gun from somewhere else that was exactly what I wanted to start with, for $500 less than what they wanted me to spend at their shop? They're a small business, you know, and their time is valuable.

I spent some time in there today trying to talk about it with them. The guy who had spent the time made himself scarce, and his son talked to me about it. I explained my point of view on the whole thing, covering the bait-and-switch with the $800 AR-15 starter model, the fact that they could not get the model I wanted, and that I would have been happy to buy it from them, and pay more for it, if they had been able to get it, and that we were talking about a $500 price difference here. Not $50. $500. That's three digits, starting with a 5. I also mentioned that it seems as if they have forgotten that I bought four guns from them with the last six months. That seems to count for nothing now, because the 5th gun did not work out. I mentioned that I, myself, am a small business owner, and I do value their time - but that I also have to be careful about setting my customers' expectations and then switching up to something more expensive on them. It makes people unhappy, and they've done it to me several times.

He warmed up a little toward the end, and what I intend to do next is stay away for a while and let them cool down. Maybe by the time I am ready for some AR accessories, they'll have pulled their heads out. If not, I think I might be done with that particular local shop, and I'll be "talking" with CTD about those AR accessories.

Bawanna
01-31-2012, 08:43 PM
I went by one time when you first mentioned it. Wasn't a lot to see and of course not a lot of room to display.

It's darn tough to run a gun shop on orders. People want to hold and touch and a large inventory is a very good thing that small shops sometimes have a hard time. Lot of money invested.

Epic in Monroe opened about the same time and they too are growing as they can. Nice showroom, still not a ton of inventory but they are gaining on it. They have good prices and a large selection of ammunition.

I'm routing for them hoping they make it. We need a decent local gunshop.

Like you I try my local contacts first and if they are too far out of reach or act bothered I move on.

One guy I've bought a few from learned a lesson. I told him to get me a price on a PM45 when I got mine. His response was I didn't want one of those, they are so expensive. I just said OK. Ordered from Buds, had it shipped to another FFL and showed it to him at the next gun show.

Now he knows when bawanna says get price he's talking serious business.

Scoundrel
01-31-2012, 09:19 PM
Didn't want to put any names out there, but yeah.

I also dislike being told what I do or don't want, whether it be due to a perception of what my budget is, or whether it be affected by what they can easily get.

tv_racin_fan
01-31-2012, 09:37 PM
Glad my local shop aint like that. Their price is generally close to Buds sometimes has been less. I aint tied to them if I can find a better price but I dont mind paying a little extra just so they stay around.

TriggerMan
01-31-2012, 09:50 PM
My local indoor range is a great place with great friendly people who know guns. They have limited inventory and they seem OK with that. When I was ready to buy, I asked them first what it would cost , I asked them to price match a small LOCAL shop which actually had the M&P9 WITH A THUMB SAFETY in stock. They were about $75 higher. I always thought, better to make some money than none. Better to acquire a customer than let your competitor do that. I keep reading that all dealers buy at the same wholesale price. Can anyone explain this? Incidentally, they are worse on trade-in values as well. Do they want to make a maximum profit on every sale without regard to volumn?

kerby9mm
01-31-2012, 11:35 PM
Tman I usually go to the one on 8mile because its close. You probably know the one. Horrible trade in prices high priced new guns,free range time with nrw gun purchase. They do big business there from lack of competition. The owner acts friendly the manager is an ***. I'm stuck unless I want to spend $4 a gallon to drive to your side. You are lucky to have choices. I just grin and bear it for convenience. I did go to the dive off Gratiot with my daughters once and it was a ripoff. I guess I should move to East of Woodward

TriggerMan
01-31-2012, 11:57 PM
Tman I usually go to the one on 8mile because its close. You probably know the one. Horrible trade in prices high priced new guns,free range time with nrw gun purchase. They do big business there from lack of competition. The owner acts friendly the manager is an ***. I'm stuck unless I want to spend $4 a gallon to drive to your side. You are lucky to have choices. I just grin and bear it for convenience. I did go to the dive off Gratiot with my daughters once and it was a ripoff. I guess I should move to East of WoodwardGood prices at GunsGalore in Fenton. There's a drive for ya. MichiGuns in Roseville is good. My preferred local place for gun purchases is Double Action in Madsn Hts. I haven't been East of Woodward for any shops.

Best range by far, CQT. Clean, friendly and real ROs watching for unsafe practices. Other ranges, not so good.

jlottmc
02-01-2012, 08:18 AM
We have a couple of places to buy here in town, one of which has an indoor range. for the most part both shops are usually within a couple of dollars of each other (I have bought stuff from both). Thing about it is, they will recommend the other shop to try first (they are just down the road from each other) if they don't have what you want. Both are friendly, and do what they can for you, nor do they mind if you find something somewhere else. I also have two CTD stores near (one is closer than the other though), and have bought guns from them too. With regards to the guns and stuff aspect of it DFW has some great stuff, the burning powder part not so much.

Longitude Zero
02-01-2012, 09:00 AM
As far as weapons the local shops trade with $25-$50 of the big nationals and online retailers. Now for accessories that is where the locals really cut your cods off. I rarely if ever buy accessories locally. When I was asked why by the owner of the largest operation I told him that his prices bordered on highway robery.

His reply shocked me when he said that he had to make his money somewhere and he felt better about doing it on the goodies rather than the weapons themselves. It seems to work out fo rhim as his business has been thriving and growing for over 25 years. His operation has a range of 10 handgun and 15 rifle lanes and on weekends if yo do not have a reservation you can forget about shooting.

joshh
02-01-2012, 09:45 AM
i run a small business (not guns) and the better brands in our industry have minimum advertised pricing that protects the small businesses. we can/do sell for LESS in store than we can on our website. i also bought an ar last year and initially was going to order it online then when i went to a local shop to discuss them doing the transfer and to look around at there selection, i noticed a sticker for the brand of ar i wanted on their wall. so i asked them about and they quoted me a cheaper price (including sales tax). There are some things they dont even try to compete with, like cheapo ammo. but a good gun shop should have reasonable prices. our local shops are actually cheaper on firearms than the big box guys like basspro and dicks. plus, i try to keep in mind that it is nice to have a person to talk to when you are having problems with things.

OldLincoln
02-01-2012, 10:25 AM
Thinking about what a new shop confronts is interesting. That's one business you don't want to try and bootstrap but better have solid financing and lot's of it. I can't imagine buying a good selection of handguns for resale as there are so many brands and models. Yet your competition is online and they have access to everything all the time and very little overhead.

I don't have the skills but might be a better business model to be a local gunny shop and work on other folks guns. You can have a reasonable inventory of common parts and overnight access from suppliers, and not a lot of competition.

On the other hand maybe you can come up with a solar powered gun and get a few million in government grants.

Tinman507
02-01-2012, 11:52 AM
How about a gun that bans itself for sale in NJ, CA, MA & IL?
I'd be rich.

jocko
02-01-2012, 12:03 PM
My gun shop nside our tire business held about 100+ guns, might not sound like mkuch but I was a small business owner and guns to have on the shelf was very expensive. I very seldome had anothe rin the back room, as I just could not put that kind ofmoney inot to, when Ihad a majaor competitor 15 miles from me that could and would discount far more than I could. I felt I serviced a local area of vvery good patrons who knew I wa shonest and who know I had tomake a livgt to and so they did\ their very best to do business with me but Inever held it against any of them for going to tyhe bigger dealers, as many did with their tire buys also for I know tey also had to work hard for their money. Being in a family business for 69 years in the same location I seenthe good times where we had alot of business downtot he last 10- years of my business years where competition was just to muh and getting to close to. I never begrudged the wal marts or targets or kmarts. I now how the system worked. The mom and pop business for what it is worh is dead in the water. I just callit changing times. Look at all the medium size towns main streets. THEY ARE VACANT. "changing times". Loyalty today is just a word.

I see that when ever a new wal mart or K mart or target store is built. the unions picket the place during construction but wow on opeing day every fokking union worker and his wife is in that store to get bargains. "changing times"

mightymouse
02-01-2012, 12:58 PM
I never begrudged the wal marts or targets or kmarts. I now how the system worked. The mom and pop business for what it is worh is dead in the water. I just callit changing times. Look at all the medium size towns main streets. THEY ARE VACANT. "changing times". Loyalty today is just a word.

I see that when ever a new wal mart or K mart or target store is built. the unions picket the place during construction but wow on opeing day every fokking union worker and his wife is in that store to get bargains. "changing times"
jocko, I know some of your income comes from Walmart, so I guess you have become part of the cycle. Our local grocery store, and many other small local businesses, well stocked, friendly personal staff for decades, folded to the Walmart plague. We now have two super stores that are always filthy, crabby part time checkout staff, close to minimum wage with no benefits for the majority, yet the Walton family, one of the richest anywhere makes tons of profit. The system is brilliant turning good wages and mom and pop stores into dust bowls, vacant buildings, while the minimum wage crowd who can no longer afford to buy anywhere else cheers at every deal and breadcrumb. All part of the plan as Americans since we think low prices and big monopolies are like apple pie and mom.
All part of the plan of a two tier class system. Its working like a charm.

Scoundrel
02-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Store owners/managers/employees (and employers, and pretty much everyone, really) need to remember that "loyalty" goes both ways, and it must be earned.