Trigger failure P9

[RPF]

I recently purchased a P9 on gunsamerica.com. The prior owner was the only owner and reported that he bought the pistol new in 2008, fired 200 rounds through it, and then it was his nightstand pistol. The buyer has a great rep on the auction sites, is actually an employee of one of Kahr’s subsidiaries, and I have on reason to doubt his history of this pistol.

From the first box of ammo this pistol had a problem. It would fire, cycle completely (the slide would eject the spent round, chamber a new round, and return to battery), and then the trigger was dead. It would not fire the chambered round. There was no resistance to travel of the trigger, as though the striker weren’t reset. This would occur with either of the two factory magazines, and with Federal Champion 115 gr or Winchester white box 115 grain. Failures would occur during slow fire from 50’, with both hands having a firm grip on the pistol. This is not a problem with ‘limp wristing” or “short stroking” of the trigger. After the last few failures I would completely remove my finger from the trigger and then attempt to fire the chambered round, and the trigger would inevitably exhibit no resistance to travel beyond that caused by the trigger spring, and the chambered round would not fire.

I emailed Kahr and their response was that I should replace the recoil spring. I have no idea how, with the slide cycling properly and with only a few hundred rounds of ammo fired through this pistol, this was supposed to help. But, figuring I had to take their first diagnosis to get past GO, I ordered a recoil spring from their site and installed it. This, of course, did nothing to alleviate the problem.

So, I then did a detail strip down, cleaning, and lube of the slide, and noted no residue from the manufacturing process, no bent or broken parts, no galling, or any other signs of mechanical distress on any of the parts. I used a toothbrush and 409 cleaner to clean the trigger mechanism in the frame, thoroughly dried it, and then lightly oiled all the appropriate places. This morning I went to the range to see if this had helped. I and four FTFs in 150 rounds.

After my second to the last FTF I tried pushing the trigger forward, and I heard/felt a slight click. I then pulled the trigger and met with the expected striker spring resistance and the chambered round fired. On my next (last) FTF I tried the same thing, and, although I didn’t detect any discernable “click” or, for that matter, any discernable trigger movement, this maneuver seemed to “cure” the problem and the pistol fired.

I emailed Kahr with the results of this last outing and they said “send it in”. Well, I haven’t pursued this path yet, as I gather it’s pricey. They indicated that this three and a half year old wonder pistol is out of warranty. Hmmm…maybe I should have bought the LC9 after all….

Two other points worth mentioning: 1) the FTFs now seem to occur only on the next to the last or second next to the last round in the magazine, although this wasn’t true on the first few FTFs, 2) I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to duplicate this FTF during dry firing of the pistol.

Any ideas??????

[CJB]

Sounds like the trigger drawbar is not returning to its position.

I personally cant see how this can happen on a pistol that has been tested by the factory... but... it gets reported here.

If your P9 has the sideplate screw, you _may_ want to look in there, and see just whats up. Its my guess that many of these pistols that report that sort of problem are actually experiencing some debris - possibly flashing from the frame - getting into someplace it should not be. The debris, if flashing, may still be partially attached to the frame and need to be picked out. That is a totally wild off the wall guess as to a possible scenario for a problem that could not occur at the factory, but yet occurs after short use, not gospel truth.

[yqtszhj]

First, welcome to the forum. folks here should be able to provide you some useful information to get you up and running.

Let me start by saying I have never experienced this but it sounds like your cleaning the trigger area helped a lot. The forward click you mentinoed by pushing the trigger forward sounds to me like there is something gummed up in there, maybe some weak spring, or something out of spec. I'm wondering if a good cleaning with some non-chlorinated break cleaner (safe for polymer) to get any hidden gum out and a drop of oil here and there would get it running. Also a few more rounds down range would loosen it up because it sounds like when you bought it, it was basically new.

I'm sure some more will sound in momentarily. Watch for Jocko, Bawanna, greg, and many others that are pretty good at figuring this stuff out.

[RPF]

Update. Thanks for the suggestions.

My P9 has the plastic (?) pin instead of a torx screw holding the sideplate in, so I don't feel comfortable trying to remove it. I did super douche the trigger mechanism with a fresh can of non-chlorinated brake cleaner (lots of pressure), including a long blast into the opening in the right side of the frame where part of the trigger bar protudes to act as a trigger interrupter (prevents the pistol from firing until the slide is in battery). I then lubricated these locations with Breakfree/CLP and went to the range with a third brand of ammunition, Remington UMC 115 gr.

Same result, only worse. I fired 6 full magazines (7 rounds plus one in the chamber) and every magazine but one exhibited the same failure described in the original post. Once again; the slide cylces completely, successfully chambering the next round and returning to battery, but the trigger exhibits little resistance to travel and will not fire the pistol. On this outing the "push the trigger forward after failure to fire" routine accomplished nothing, and the trigger, in fact, seemed to have returned to the fully forward position as it could not be moved toward the muzzle end at all.

This failure happens with either of the factory magazines. Examination of the exposed surface of the trigger bar inside the frame shows no evidence of scraping or galling, and the sides of the magazines show no evidence of contact with the trigger bar. All of the failures to fire on my last two trips to the range were after the third round from the end of the magazine had been fired and the second from the last round in the magazine had been chambered (one round left in the magazine).

Anyone have any other thoughts before I take the expensive "send it back to Kahr" route?

RPF

[kerby9mm]

Take the slide off. At the rear of the frame are two cams. Pull the trigger,they will come up. As you hold the trigger hold the cams up with your finger. Let go of the trigger then the cams. The cams should spring back down. If not or they have no spring tension that could be the problem.

[jocko]

I think the gun needs to go back, IMO u have an out of spec trigger bar, quite possably that is why the gun was traded back in or what ever. Kahr will fix it but for the money u saved in buing it, now it is going to get u some of it back to send it back. I think maybe kahr will pay to returnit to you on their dime, so one way back is expected as u have a second owner gun and kahrs warranty is for the original owner and possably if it was a year old they wouldhave taken care ofit but you in the 4 year part, so bite the bullet and get it fixed right. That is really a nice gun, not really a problem child, most dead triggers are trigger bar related. I would bet if u can push in on that right side plate at the back that the gun will function OK try that to see, if so then it further tells me it is trigger bar related. It would not do alot of good to take that plate off if u have no fix in mind. that pin just pushes out from the left side tothe right, very simple, just takes as small a punch as the pin sizse andit pushes right out. actually that side plate holds that trigger bar in proper alignment also. My suggestion is to let kahr fix it. Buying a lc9 is not a bad idea but it is not in the same ball park as the P9 and if u buy used, u have no guarantee it is going to be right either..

[kerby9mm]

I removed the mag and left grip panel from my mk40 and observed the operation of trigger reset. The click is the trigger bar popping back up behind the cams to be in position to pull the cams up again. I would hope a good gunsmith could repair the gun if Kahr won't pay shipping.

[jocko]

ur gonna pay a smitty at least that much to "maybe" have some luck...ur call to make.. I think u meant the right grip panel ont he Mk, didn't U???

[RPF]

I've driven a fair number of pins in and out of various firearms, but this plastic looking thing that fastens the right grip panel has me leary of tinkering. Does it drive in and out as easily as a metal pin without boogering it up?

RPF

[kerby9mm]

I removed the left grip panel (slide stop side) to observe action with light. That way trigger bar is in tact as I observed the action working

[TennSCN]

Trigger bar spring or cocking cam spring are broken or not positioned correctly. Send it to Kahr if you are not the tinkering type.

[RPF]

Sent it to Kahr yesterday. They said they would fix if for no cost, which is great. However, the required overnight shipping from Texas to MA was $87!!!

My greatest fear is that, like the car that stops making that "funny noise" when you get to the dealer, the pistol will perform like a champ for them and I'll go on their Retarded Customer bulletin board.

I'll report back when I get the results of this expensive exercise.

[jocko]

I think for that amountof money I would have worked with or ask a local dealer to sendit in for you. could have beendone for less than half price. These mailing companies are ripping the gun owner off big time.. It certainly does not cost kahr anything near that amount, one couldhave ask kahr to charge u for the postage to pick it up even . They might have worked with you on that part to..

[RPF]

This whole exercise got sidetracked by some out of town funerals I had to attend and the fact that Kahr sort of lost the pistol in their shop. I finally sent an email asking about the fate of my pistol and the it was promptly fixed and returned. The terse note included with the returned pistol said "Inspected. Tested. Replaced striker and trigger bar. Lubed and test fired OK."

Finally got to the range and put 200 rounds of mixed brand ammo (Federal Champion, Reminton UMC, and Blazer - all 115 gr.) through it without a hiccup.
The repair was free on this 10 year old "early P9" (this is a whole 'nother issue that I'll post on), and I belive that this may have been because of the intervention of the original owner, who, although not acquainted with the personnel at Kahr, works for one of their subsidiaries, Magnum Research. However, the shipping, as noted above, was a outrageously expensive, and thoroughly destroyed (and then some) any savings I'd realized by buying a used firearm. I gather, from the above responses to my OP, that I should have examined having my FFL ship it, but I'm not sure how someone is supposed to know this unless they do a lot or commerce in firearms. I've bought a number of firearms on line, but have never, until this issue arose, had to ship one.

I did not consider having a local gunsmith look at this problem because I live in a small town and there are no local gunsmiths, or any that I'd trust working on a Kahr.

I'm not unfamiliar with firearms dissasembly and other mechanical repairs, but the thought of pushing out the plastic pin that anchors the cover to the trigger bar mechanism and then reinstalling it without visible trauma to the pistol was not encouraging, especially since I'm not sure that any problems would have been apparent to my untrained eye. Thus the expensive trip to Kahr.

My side comment about *perhaps* wishing that I'd bought an LC9 was due to the fact that it's a much less expensive pistol with almost exactly the same dimensions/weight as the P9, and the fact that Ruger is usually willing to repair, at no cost, even used Rugers that have problems that are not due to neglect or operator abuse. I hope you won't waste your time responding to this comment. We all own Kahrs here and think they're great. I just thought it was worth airing the opposing opinion ("op ed"). And, the LC9's trigger is apparently intolerable to many folks.

I do appreciate the time spent by those who responded to my original post. Thank you all very much.