Ballistic gel test [Archive]

Frankhenrylee

02-10-2012, 10:29 AM

Hey folks, I've been pondering the ole' which is the best caliber conundrum for about a week or two. My Mom's wanting a carry gun but she's scared to death of my PM40 and doesn't like my brothers LC9 either. I've also been considering getting another pistol, but generally would like for all my pistols to shoot the same bullets. I also keep hearing and have noticed it myself that .45 is the most powerful but somehow doesn't kick as bad as .40. I questioned whether or not it actually has more power than a .40, due to the idea that what it feels like on my end must be what it feels like on the other end.
Anyway, I was looking at some gel test by Brass Fetcher and noticed a peculiar thing. For the most part, no matter what round from .380 to .45 they all seem to have roughly the same penetration. In order of most to least would be .40, 9mm, .45, and .380. Of course there were differences with each brand of round but generally speaking this seemed to be an accurate overview. Even with the different impact velocities and widths of each round their penetration differences seemed negligible. We know these test don't tell the whole story, so...

Does anyone know of other types of testing that I may look into?

Not trying to start up the ole which is the best round debate, those are all over the internet. Just looking for info and comments. Thanks ya'll and have a good weekend!

Barth

02-10-2012, 10:36 AM

TheTman

02-10-2012, 10:36 AM

I think a 38 special revolver suits many women, easy kicking, and goes boom when you pull the trigger. No racking of slides, no safety to get confused over. Charter Arms is making a revolver in .40 now. Haven't seen any tests on it though. I have a Charter Arms .44. I carry it quite a bit when I can wear my OWB holster.

Barth

02-10-2012, 10:41 AM

Truth is 9/357/40/45, in the best SD loading, are all pretty darn good.
The ballistic footprint of these rounds has tons of overlap - as you have found out.

My way of thinking is - the caliber wars are over.
We all won.
Now, instead of determining the best caliber for SD,
we can focus on the platform/caliber we are most proficient with.

muggsy

02-10-2012, 02:02 PM

Any gun is better than no gun. A Lady Smith in .38 special is an ideal gun for a woman. A .22 revolver is better than nothing.

Frankhenrylee

02-10-2012, 03:32 PM

Here's one conclusion I've come to. All HP's are designed to expand at a specific rate, therefore all penetration depths will be relatively close to each other. If you look above at the .40 Golden Saber 180gr., they penetrate much further than the typical 12"-14"(G.S. 16"). I'm not sure if thats better or worse, but I think penetration depth has more to do with the design and performance of the HP rather than the power of the cartridge.

Another thing the chart above shows is that penetration and expansion are directly related being that lower expansion = more penetration.

Looking at wound capacity shows that in fact, the higher you go on the chart the bigger the hole created. As I suspected there's not a lot of difference between .40 and .45 in that category but the .45 does seem to edge it out slightly.

Chuck54

02-10-2012, 03:56 PM

38 spl with full wadcutters ....... light recoil ...... cookie cutter type hole.

I think it will get the job done if need be done. I'm betting if she ever needs it the encounter will at extremely close range.

Longitude Zero

02-10-2012, 04:21 PM

A proven turd stopper with impeccable credentials is the 125 grain 357 magnum at 1300fps or better. Too bad we cannot get that in a concealable carry package. I carry a 45 ACP now but the 357 Mag beats that hands down.

Bill K

02-10-2012, 04:23 PM

Truth is 9/357/40/45, in the best SD loading, are all pretty darn good.
The ballistic footprint of these rounds has tons of overlap - as you have found out.

My way of thinking is - the caliber wars are over.
We all won.
Now, instead of determining the best caliber for SD,
we can focus on the platform/caliber we are most proficient with.

Yep, +1

getsome

02-10-2012, 04:55 PM

+1 also...I did some backyard redneck ballistic tests with Hornady .380 .40 and .45 critical defense rounds into soaking wet phone books and of the three the .40 had the most expansion but just slightly more than the .45 and both looked wicked scary with picture perfect expansion with bullets remaining intact but mushrooming to almost 5/8inch...

Even the so called wimp .380 round expanded to the size of a dime and went through 10 inchs of paper media...I sure wouldn't want to be hit by a .380 thats for sure!!!

LaP

02-10-2012, 06:12 PM

My wife handles a .38 snubbie pretty well. Her S&W 642 goes into her pocketbook and she carries it everywhere. We put a Crimson Trace laser grip on it and this greatly helps get the short barreled revolver on target.

Ubaldo99

02-10-2012, 07:02 PM

The lightweight 38 snubbies are good options for both women and men. The 32 caliber revolvers are also an option...and offer less recoil and an additional round over most 38 caliber revolvers. And dont ignore the various pepper spray options for your Mom as an alternative to firearms.

Barth

02-11-2012, 12:01 AM

I would make a short list of guns and take your mom to the range.
Borrow or rent and let her decide.
With live fire, she will quickly have her own ideas as to what feels comfortable and proficient shooting.

Also, don't count out larger, heavier, guns.
Small people, guys and girls, sometimes shoot big guns well and favor them.

tv_racin_fan

02-12-2012, 02:16 AM

Larger heavier guns many times means less felt recoil.

My wife prefers to shoot my 6" Ruger GP100 over her Kahr CW9.

pocket pistol

02-12-2012, 04:21 PM

I'm another any gun is better than no gun guy... I think if it goes bang, it's definately a bad guy deterrent.

crazymailman

02-12-2012, 05:16 PM

A proven turd stopper with impeccable credentials is the 125 grain 357 magnum at 1300fps or better.

I'd like to see how the 135gr 40S&W would compare. CorBon advertises 1325fps.

Longitude Zero

02-12-2012, 07:19 PM

I'd like to see how the 135gr 40S&W would compare. CorBon advertises 1325fps.

It could be a stopper who knows at this point. CorBon has had a rather checkered past. Now that Daktoa Arms is the owner I hope they do the best they can do.

Frankhenrylee

02-13-2012, 08:40 AM

Hey folks, thanks for the ideas and comments. We went to the range this weekend and rented a few guns to try out. Needless to say, being the first time out she didn't shoot very well and became a little discouraged, but she knows a lot more now than she did before. She ended up getting a stun gun shaped like brass knuckles for now. We shot an XD sub 9mm, .38 special, .410 Judge, XDM .45 compact, and my PM40. They didn't have a .380 similar to anything she was looking at so we didn't try one of those. She liked the XD9 the best, but liked all the holes that the .410 Judge left behind. That was also my first time to shoot "The Judge" and it does have a pretty stout thump to it, but no worse than the .38 special. It seemed to make her more confident too knowing that she didn't have to be as accurate. I don't know what she'll go with but I think the "verdict" will be in soon.

Barth

02-13-2012, 10:51 AM

Hey folks, thanks for the ideas and comments. We went to the range this weekend and rented a few guns to try out. Needless to say, being the first time out she didn't shoot very well and became a little discouraged, but she knows a lot more now than she did before. She ended up getting a stun gun shaped like brass knuckles for now. We shot an XD sub 9mm, .38 special, .410 Judge, XDM .45 compact, and my PM40. They didn't have a .380 similar to anything she was looking at so we didn't try one of those. She liked the XD9 the best, but liked all the holes that the .410 Judge left behind. That was also my first time to shoot "The Judge" and it does have a pretty stout thump to it, but no worse than the .38 special. It seemed to make her more confident too knowing that she didn't have to be as accurate. I don't know what she'll go with but I think the "verdict" will be in soon.

I think you're going down the right path.
Good luck