View Full Version : PM9 more reliable than the P380?
Retlawman590
02-10-2012, 07:19 PM
Hi,
I still haven't committed to the PM9, MK9 or P380 for a BUG and summer carry. I was thinking of a P380 as an alternative to the Seecamp .380 for pocket carry. I have however been reading some horror stories about the P380. How much more reliable is the PM9? I know it won't be as comfortable for pocket carry in regular jeans, but I am willing to give that up for reliability. Reliability always takes precedence. I know my friend and LGD recommended the PM9 with the black slide and Big Dots. I also have the Sig P238 SAS in the back of my mind.
Thanks
cesande
02-10-2012, 07:24 PM
Check my thread.
I bought new from cheaper than dirt and got a new build and it has been fine!
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10312
JFootin
02-10-2012, 07:27 PM
PM9 most definitely.
From reports here, and based on my own experience with the PM9, the PM9 wins out over the P380 at the present time. Kahr has having some growing pains with the P380 right now, but to be honest, the PM9 had its time of growing pains too. One reason we see the CM9 being so well received is that all the kinks were worked out while it was still a PM9... Current PM9's..... should also be just as kinkless. My own PM9j (old model) has never failed in any way, 6 or 7 round mags, no matter the ammo, but to be honest, I've only shot FMJ WWB and some Federal HP's and old CCI HPs in it.... about 300 rounds.
onegun
02-10-2012, 07:39 PM
much more!
Retlawman590
02-10-2012, 08:00 PM
Check my thread.
I bought new from cheaper than dirt and got a new build and it has been fine!
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10312
Thanks, but from everything I have read you have been more the exception rather than the rule. Also, 500 rounds of ammo to get a gun to work properly is excessive and expensive.
Retlawman590
02-10-2012, 08:02 PM
From reports here, and based on my own experience with the PM9, the PM9 wins out over the P380 at the present time. Kahr has having some growing pains with the P380 right now, but to be honest, the PM9 had its time of growing pains too. One reason we see the CM9 being so well received is that all the kinks were worked out while it was still a PM9... Current PM9's..... should also be just as kinkless. My own PM9j (old model) has never failed in any way, 6 or 7 round mags, no matter the ammo, but to be honest, I've only shot FMJ WWB and some Federal HP's and old CCI HPs in it.... about 300 rounds.
Thanks, haven't the PM9s been around now for 10 years. That is time tested if you ask me.
cesande
02-10-2012, 08:41 PM
Thanks, but from everything I have read you have been more the exception rather than the rule. Also, 500 rounds of ammo to get a gun to work properly is excessive and expensive.
NP... but round count is 831 total and 546 since last issue so issues stopped on mine after 285 rounds...
Just glad I did all the prep work etc and have one I can trust...
Too cold to hit the range this weekend maybe next ...
TriggerMan
02-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Hi,
I still haven't committed to the PM9, MK9 or P380 for a BUG and summer carry. I was thinking of a P380 as an alternative to the Seecamp .380 for pocket carry. I have however been reading some horror stories about the P380. How much more reliable is the PM9? I know it won't be as comfortable for pocket carry in regular jeans, but I am willing to give that up for reliability. Reliability always takes precedence. I know my friend and LGD recommended the PM9 with the black slide and Big Dots. I also have the Sig P238 SAS in the back of my mind.
ThanksThat Sig will go bang everytime you pull the trigger and at no other time. It will outshoot anything in its size. You will be able to train extensively without pain to your hands.
Retlawman590
02-10-2012, 09:24 PM
That Sig will go bang everytime you pull the trigger and at no other time. It will outshoot anything in its size. You will be able to train extensively without pain to your hands.
:cheer2: for Sig P238SAS. I see you own one. I've pretty much ruled out the P380 and I think the MK9 is a bit heavy. So it's probably between those two. I can probably get the Sig for less with my LEO discount. But then again it's not a 9.:(
kerby9mm
02-10-2012, 10:43 PM
I second the motion for the p238. I own two and the quailty,features and reliability in my OPINION is unmatched in the 380 field. If you really want a 9 the p938 is out soon and only a tiny bit larger than the p238. Hope you like what you drop your money on. That's important also.
onegun
02-10-2012, 11:01 PM
I like the looks of the SIG P238 but would never carry one like I carry my S&W 442 or Kahr P9. I don't mind a SA but not in the pocket. If that is something you really like I would wait for the P938 and carry it in a holster. It doesn't appear to be much larger. I do like my big SIGs.
TriggerMan
02-10-2012, 11:18 PM
I like the looks of the SIG P238 but would never carry one like I carry my S&W 442 or Kahr P9. I don't mind a SA but not in the pocket. If that is something you really like I would wait for the P938 and carry it in a holster. It doesn't appear to be much larger. I do like my big SIGs.I'm not a fan of pocket carry, but if you must, it is posible with a Sig branded $26 holster in black leather.
onegun
02-10-2012, 11:29 PM
Sorry, not for me.
yqtszhj
02-11-2012, 12:26 AM
Get the CM9 or PM9 if you have a seacamp already. You won't regret it.
AllanB
02-11-2012, 01:08 AM
I have both, new, about 100 through each. The PM9 seems completely reliable, the P380 is not yet with HP ammo but does fine with FMJ and is improving with HP. The PM9 is comfortable and easy to shoot accurately. I'm amazed at how well I can shoot it, I like it very much. The P380 is not comfortable to shoot, I prefer to wear a glove when shooting it. But I expect eventually it would be the best pocket pistol due to its very small size and weight, which is why I bought it. Also, I personally wouldn't pocket-carry a single action pistol.
Popeye
02-11-2012, 06:46 AM
PM9 has worked flawlessly for me form day one..
That Sig will go bang everytime you pull the trigger and at no other time. It will outshoot anything in its size. You will be able to train extensively without pain to your hands.
There are a lot of folks over at the Sig Forum who might disagree with that part of your statement. Dunno about currently, but when they first came out, and for a while, they had their issues too.
The design is part for part, nearly 100 percent identical with what Colt made, and Colt had its problems with it, and its larger .380 Govt Model. The roots of the P238, Mustang, Govt., and short lived Pony all go back to a joint venture of Colt and Star (Spain). Star never made the Colt, but offered their own version, whose model number escapes me at the moment. Its not a bad design, but the devil, like Kahr's own issues, are in the details, which can vary from run to run, as production variables sneak in.
Retlawman590
02-11-2012, 08:03 AM
Get the CM9 or PM9 if you have a seacamp already. You won't regret it.
I wish I had a Seecamp already. That would make the decision for the PM is cinch. I can't afford both. I'm not crazy about pocket carry either except as a BUG or if I'm walking the "mean" streets. I will then have my hands in my pockets. I just heard of several armed robberies outside the train stations near here. The warm temperatures here in NY seem to have brought out the BGs this winter. Which is pretty rare in this area. If I was ever approached, it would be easiest to go for what appears to be my wallet and pull out "something a little different". In the winter it would be in my coat pocket. The difference when drawing this way or having to move your coat and maybe sweater over and reach at 4 o'clock for your weapon in an IWB or OWB holster could cost you valuable time and your life. Ideally a pocket holster and a side holster together are hard to beat.
Retlawman590
02-11-2012, 08:06 AM
There are a lot of folks over at the Sig Forum who might disagree with that part of your statement. Dunno about currently, but when they first came out, and for a while, they had their issues too.
The design is part for part, nearly 100 percent identical with what Colt made, and Colt had its problems with it, and its larger .380 Govt Model. The roots of the P238, Mustang, Govt., and short lived Pony all go back to a joint venture of Colt and Star (Spain). Star never made the Colt, but offered their own version, whose model number escapes me at the moment. Its not a bad design, but the devil, like Kahr's own issues, are in the details, which can vary from run to run, as production variables sneak in.
Yep the Sig p238 had issues its first year, but complaints now are very rare. They change the recoil springs and mags and solved the previous issues. At least that's what they all say.
Retlawman590
02-11-2012, 08:07 AM
I like the looks of the SIG P238 but would never carry one like I carry my S&W 442 or Kahr P9. I don't mind a SA but not in the pocket. If that is something you really like I would wait for the P938 and carry it in a holster. It doesn't appear to be much larger. I do like my big SIGs.
I never carried a SA in a pocket either. My friend and LGD wasn't crazy about that idea either. The Sig forums seem to think it's a non issue with the right pocket holster.
Retlawman590
02-11-2012, 08:09 AM
I second the motion for the p238. I own two and the quailty,features and reliability in my OPINION is unmatched in the 380 field. If you really want a 9 the p938 is out soon and only a tiny bit larger than the p238. Hope you like what you drop your money on. That's important also.
I'm afraid I will be Beta testing when the 938 first comes out. If it functions reliably, it's going to be a good seller though and will take sales away from the p238.
Big_John_1961
02-11-2012, 06:17 PM
Hi,
I still haven't committed to the PM9, MK9 or P380 for a BUG and summer carry. I was thinking of a P380 as an alternative to the Seecamp .380 for pocket carry. I have however been reading some horror stories about the P380. How much more reliable is the PM9? I know it won't be as comfortable for pocket carry in regular jeans, but I am willing to give that up for reliability. Reliability always takes precedence. I know my friend and LGD recommended the PM9 with the black slide and Big Dots. I also have the Sig P238 SAS in the back of my mind.
Thanks
I put another 110 rounds downrange today, making it 520+ through my PM9 with zero issues. It's, reliable, fun to shoot and it's eaten everything I've fed it. I really think you cannot go wrong with a new PM9. It fills a perfect niche and is one of my favorite pieces. My P380, on the other hand, has been an unmitigated disaster.
Jeff00042
02-11-2012, 09:48 PM
My PM9 now has about 1000 rounds through it. It works flawlessly with everything but Gold Dots (nose dives). Got rid of my P 380. After 1400 rounds and two trips to Kahr the P380 was still unreliable. It was accurate with a great trigger and fun to shoot. However, in a personal defense gun, reliability is #1.
alkaspeltzar
02-13-2012, 10:21 AM
I have had my P380 into Kahr 4 times.
#1-Slide JUMPED frame, gun replaced
#2-New gun had premature slide lock, adjustments made
#3-Gun had mass FTF and FTE, so frame of gun was updated and replaced
#4-Nose diving, more polishing
Gun is finally working as long as no winchester white box, or Sand B.
Love the gun, love the size, love the accuracy. REliablity is a nervous word. hoping someone comes out with a P380 gun like kahrs, but has fixed all the kinks.
Just my 2cents,
Ljutic
02-13-2012, 04:03 PM
I bought a PM9 and P380 on the same trip to the gun store one day. P380 had to go back to Kahr. P380 returned and would still per-maturely lock back during shooting with some ammo. P380 was traded. PM9 has been a dream. Second try with the P380 has been great.
In my experience the PM9 is twice as reliable as the P380. How's that for math. =)
rogerthedodger
02-13-2012, 06:29 PM
I bought a PM9 and P380 on the same trip to the gun store one day. P380 had to go back to Kahr. P380 returned and would still per-maturely lock back during shooting with some ammo. P380 was traded. PM9 has been a dream. Second try with the P380 has been great.
In my experience the PM9 is twice as reliable as the P380. How's that for math. =)
Actually, according to your calculations, the P380 is only 1/2 as reliable as the PM9.
1=PM9
________ LOL :eek:
2=P380
:banplease:
Sorry, its a bad joke, Jocko made me do it!
Ricky59
02-19-2012, 09:05 PM
I don't know if I just really have a good one but...
I've never have a failure with my pm 9
PM9094N
Don't mean to sound like I'm blasting any of the good folks here on this site...but...I have two Kahr's a PM45 & a PM9 and love them both for different reasons. I tend to prefer the 45 but that PM9 is just a wee bit easier to pocket carry.
Know for the politcally incorrect side of me...... Look guys when I hear all that well I can't carry cocked and locked...well I would agree with you if you were stuffing a 911 in your britches, but as far as the P238 is concerned that I just won't carry it condition#1 won't play. Now ley me explain why. First as was already discussed they (Sig) has their own special pocket holster which by the way is very good especially in the rear pocket and it totally covers both trigger and the safety very well. Secondily it isn't your prototypical 911 safety set up, not by a long shot. You really have to thumb that very positive saftey down and it has a very positive snap which both engages and disengages the safety, inlike the typical 911 and there vaiants. Sorry, but when I hear the standard response oh not for me, I can't help bu fell that most are just parroting what they have heard and actually know little about the specific firearm in question.
Now I can understand that some folks don't even like carrying condition #1 or cocked and locked no matter how the weapon is carried. BUt to make a blanket statement and promoting a mith based on what one hears from others is poppy cock. The same argument could be made for carrying our beloved Kahrs with a round in the chamber without a safety.
Now let the battle begin. :D
JFootin
02-20-2012, 03:21 PM
I'll add that I think the P238 trigger is about 7.5 lb, which is no hair trigger by a long shot, even unlocked.
jocko
02-20-2012, 03:22 PM
no battle from this ol timer, other than as u well know we all have opinions, and whether my opinion is pure fact or anything does not really matter. again it is my opinion. I try to respect another persons opinion rather than trying toshove my opinion down their throat, so for me, if u wana carry a sig 238 in ur pocket in any safety position is realy ur call to make and not mine to judge. Some people have a fobia about things and it doesnt really matter how factual or true it mght be. Some will not fly in planes or climb a ladder. It is what it is.
TriggerMan
02-20-2012, 04:33 PM
I'll add that I think the P238 trigger is about 7.5 lb, which is no hair trigger by a long shot, even unlocked.That is the same as the average Kahr, although a shorter pull.
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