Winchester Nato

[Chogers]

Just curious how my fellow Kahr members felt about the Winchester Nato rounds for their PM9? Dunhams has em right now for real cheap! I bought a box at that price from them a few weeks ago and they are still on sale. I cant believe they have any left...

[wyntrout]

I think those are 124-gr +P FMJ... a little hot for continuous use at the range. I use cheaper, brass-cased stuff for the range... standard pressure. Wally Mart had those back during the ammo shortage for $12 or $12.99 and I just bought the $9.47 a box of 50 Federal Champion FMJ... still have a bunch of that and the 124-gr S&B FMJ for the range... all under $10... about 2 years ago, though.

Wynn:)

[ripley16]

I love NATO ammo for practice. It is fairly clean, very accurate and consistent, and the round is similar to my current carry round. I'd say buy all of it you could afford at that price. NATO isn't quite +P in pressure... in between standard and +P, so, IMHO I wouldn't worry about too much excess wear.

[JimC]

Win. # Q4318 9mm NATO spec 124 gr. FMJ.

Winchester box warning: "loaded to military velocities and pressure which is higher than 9mm Luger cartridges; average pressure is 10% higher than industry standard for 9mm Luger."

IMO, excellent range ammo in any 9mm pistol that is rated for +P pressures. I have a SIG P226 that loves this stuff!

Accurate and clean enough for what it is.

I bought several thousand rounds a few years ago from a couple of online sources when it was on sale. I'm down to less than 2,000 rds. right now.

Velocity from a 3.1" PM9 bbl.:

Avg. for 6 rds. - 1045.1 fps ES 73.4 and 1056.2 fps ES 58.3

[TriggerMan]

I think those are 124-gr +P FMJ... a little hot for continuous use at the range. I use cheaper, brass-cased stuff for the range... standard pressure. Wally Mart had those back during the ammo shortage for $12 or $12.99 and I just bought the $9.47 a box of 50 Federal Champion FMJ... still have a bunch of that and the 124-gr S&B FMJ for the range... all under $10... about 2 years ago, though.

Wynn:)Relative to pressure, if we set SAAMI spec ammo as 100%, NATO is 105% of that and +P is 110%.

+P+ is anything the manufacturer wants it to be including less than 100%

[jocko]

at 12 bucks a box I can buy a 100 wwb at waqlmart for a tadover 21 bucks. It is not nato velocity but again we are talking about range fodder to. I see no good deal there what so ever..

[TriggerMan]

at 12 bucks a box I can buy a 100 wwb at waqlmart for a tadover 21 bucks. It is not nato velocity but again we are talking about range fodder to. I see no good deal there what so ever..
Nato is good ammo during break-in so that you have recoil similar to your SD rounds and you don't need to deal with Failures from weak ammo. If I could, I'd start every new gun with two boxes, then two boxes for your preferred HP, you might be ready to carry..otherwise, if you're conservative, shoot 4 boxes of each before you carry.

[jocko]

might be true, I just never had ever any issue with break in with WWB or any over the counter american brand ammo. If the price was right I would buy it but when the same price or higher than WWb, not for me.

[JimC]

Nato is good ammo during break-in so that you have recoil similar to your SD rounds and you don't need to deal with Failures from weak ammo. If I could, I'd start every new gun with two boxes, then two boxes for your preferred HP, you might be ready to carry..otherwise, if you're conservative, shoot 4 boxes of each before you carry.

Pretty much the way in which I broke in my PM9 last year.

100 rds. of the Win. NATO spec 124 gr. FMJ - 100% using 5 mags.
50 rds. of some older Win. 147 gr. SXT HP - 100% using 5 mags.
46 rds. (open box) Win. 147 gr. FMJ - 100% using 5 mags.
Then 60 rds. Speer 124 gr. GDHP short bbl. - 100% using 5 mags. This is where the first mag split!
Then, 129 rds. later, the second mag split!!
:32:

[wyntrout]

Kahr will replace those magazines. Just Email them, and pictures won't hurt.

Wynn:)

[JimC]

Kahr will replace those magazines. Just Email them, and pictures won't hurt.

Wynn:)

Old, old news. They were already replaced by Kahr just after they split last year with no problem. :D
Yes, e-mail and photos is the way to go.

[JFootin]

I think the 124 grain FMJ ammo I got from USAammo is NATO because it has a whole lot more kick than the 115 grain WWB. (http://www.usaammo.com/9mm-C8.aspx)


http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Misc/AmmoSpecs.jpg

[JimC]

I think the 124 grain FMJ ammo I got from USAammo is NATO because it has a whole lot more kick than the 115 grain WWB. (http://www.usaammo.com/9mm-C8.aspx)


http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Misc/AmmoSpecs.jpg

If it doesn't have the NATO cross in a circle, it's not NATO spec ammo.

Just because something "feels" stronger, doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Back in the late 60's early 70's, some of the best 9mmx19 ball ammo was the Win. stuff in the yellow boxes, the ones without the cardboard or styrofoam spacers/trays.

[ripley16]

Based on the above chart the USA ammo is a little light. NATO ammo velocity specs out at 1185 to 1250 fps out of a Beretta M9. The FMJ, 124gr 9mm above is 1120fps, but the barrel is unknown. Not saying it isn't great ammo mind you, but if it were actual NATO ammo it would have a NATO headstamp.