NOT KIDDING, UN is coming!

[Chief Joseph]

NAGR Gun Rights Blog U.S. agrees to timetable for UN Gun Ban (http://nationalgunrights.org/blog/?p=359#more-359)

The hillary and the dems are backing us into a corner.

[Raoul]

International Gun Ban Treaty? | FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/international-gun-ban-treaty/)

It's an international arms trade issue.

[ripley16]

I'm not sure we have anything to wory about as far as the U.N. is concerned. It is a totally inept organization with zero enforcement power. Haven't seen any blue helmets anywhere around here.

I worry more about Obama sucking more money out of my wallet and bankrupting the country. Carteresque inflation is looming ahead...that is a real threat.

[Raoul]

I'm not sure we have anything to wory about as far as the U.N. is concerned. It is a totally inept organization with zero enforcement power. Haven't seen any blue helmets anywhere around here.

I worry more about Obama sucking more money out of my wallet and bankrupting the country. Carteresque inflation is looming ahead...that is a real threat.

That and the Dem's continuation of GB's blatant moves to have federal control of all aspects of our lives.
Take a look at the "race to the top" education proposal. The main focus of that program is nothing more than a fedralization of local schools. The breakdown of the funding offered to states shows the bulk of the money going to standardization of test procedures and data gathering for the Dept. of Education. Couple this program with the joke that was NCLB and what you have is more invasive federal control and less local control of our children.

Sorry Chief, didn't mean to http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/images/smilies/hijack.gif the thread.

[Chief Joseph]

International Gun Ban Treaty? | FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/international-gun-ban-treaty/)

It's an international arms trade issue.


I'm sorry, factcheck isn't really a "factcheck" they have a left agenda themselves.

SayUncle » Fact Checking Fact Check (http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/09/23/fact-checking-fact-check/)

factcheck, like my daily oregonian newspaper, or dead fish wrapper as we call it, love to use the ploy of "checking the facts" when all they are doing is pushing their left and anti gun position. Usually very little facts get in the way of their position.

[Raoul]

I'm sorry, factcheck isn't really a "factcheck" they have a left agenda themselves.

SayUncle » Fact Checking Fact Check (http://www.saysuncle.com/2008/09/23/fact-checking-fact-check/)

factcheck, like my daily oregonian newspaper, or dead fish wrapper as we call it, love to use the ploy of "checking the facts" when all they are doing is pushing their left and anti gun position. Usually very little facts get in the way of their position.
And Bolton is of course totally unbiased?

[jeep45238]

I'm more worried about our current debt to GDP ratio of 86.62%.

Yesterday it was 86.60%.

Last week (Monday I think) it was 85.4%.

If that reaches 100%, we're literally in 3rd world country status.






And you will also never find anybody checking facts that is completely unbiased ;)

[Chief Joseph]

And Bolton is of course totally unbiased?
At least with Bolton his bias is in favor of the 2nd Amendment and I actually liked Bolton, he was awesome and not a puppet of the un. Unlike hillary who received an F from the NRA. Don't forget, the Supreme Court overturning the DC gun ban was a 5-4 decision, with the liberal judges finding it ok to ban guns. Liberals, including supreme court justices do not adhere to the 2nd Amendment. If there is ever just one more liberal supreme court judge, we could quite easily find our gun rights GONE. And those appts are for LIFE. The dems have on many occasions talked of the "new world order", and that order is a world body government that supersedes our Constitution. Plus ruth bader ginsburg has admitted and argued for the use of FOREIGN law in our legal system. If we do not remain diligent, our gun rights will be gone.

[wyntrout]

And Bolton is of course totally unbiased?

I'll take bias like his any day. He's very skeptical of anything the corrupt and American hating UN membership wants to do... with mostly OUR money. He stood up to those #*$&@%* who ought to be kicked out of our country. He has a proper backbone and defends OUR country!:cheer2:
Wynn:yo:

[recoilguy]

That and the Dem's continuation of GB's blatant moves to have federal control of all aspects of our lives.
.

Oh man blaming the Dems move to total fedral control our lives on GB .....Please, Gb was a lot of things but control of all aspects.....nope thats the Dems 100%

RCG

[getsome]

Obama surrendering the internet to foreign powers....In an effort to show the world how inclusive, sharing, cooperative and international America can be, the Obama administration is planning to surrender control and key management of the internet by the U.S. Dept. of commerce and its agents... For years the international community has been pressuring the United States to surrender its management and control of the internet...They want an international body such as the United Nations to manage all aspects of the internet in behalf of all nations...This amounts to one small step for internationalism and one world order and one giant leap for surrendering America's control over an invention funded by tax payers that we have every right and responsibility to control and manage...What better country to protect the internet than the United States? We invented it, paid for the research and implementation that made it possible...We are the freest, most tolerant nation on earth, we believe in the fundamental right of free speach, and we practice a free market of commerce, trade and ideas...How on Gods earth did this man get elected to the most powerful position in the world? What will he do next??? I have often thought that the way to bring this country to its knees is to destroy the internet...I work for the largest telcom company in the world...starts with an A and ends with a T...we have become totally internet based with all our testing and circuit provisioning along with marketing...If something were to damage the internet backbone it would cause business as we know it to grind to a halt...Giving up control of the internet is an insane proposition....What if the U.N. in all its great wisdon decides that any web site dealing with guns or weapons is dangerous and must be banned????All I can think of to say is VOTE,VOTE, and VOTE some more and God help us make it to 2012 so we can get this buffoon out of office so he cant do any more damage!!!!!

[wyntrout]

What he said... Amen. It certainly won't be "free speech" anymore. The whole darn Internet can be snarled up by a committee-approach to running it. Just imagine all of the other countries who censor and limit the Internet access and content in their own countries now, having an input or veto on decisions!
It's like our being the only Superpower and protector of the "free world". Who would you rather be stronger and "leader and the Free world"? China would certainly like that role... And aspires to that militarily, as well as economically.
Wynn:mad:

[jeep45238]

86.65% Debt to GDP ratio....

[wyntrout]

86.65% Debt to GDP ratio....

Look up the "Cloward and Piven strategy". Obama is right on course with his "useful idiots" -- people who would give up OUR freedom for their temporary "security". It ain't about Democrats -- it's the "Progressives" who have hijacked the Democratic Party, but the rank and file Dems circle the wagons and protect anybody who says they are in the Democratic Party. Our "Dear Leader" doesn't even talk about the Democratic Party quite often... it's the Progressives against the pesky Wepublicans. I'll bet that you haven't noticed that. He spoke to and of the Progressives and the Republicans during his State of The Union address -- not much mention of Democrats.
Wynn:behindsofa:

[jeep45238]

Don't lecture about parties to me, couldn't be further than the truth ;)

"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

~George Washington
September 26, 1796

[Chief Joseph]

Don't lecture about parties to me, couldn't be further than the truth ;)

"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

~George Washington
September 26, 1796

?? You lost me!

[jeep45238]

?? You lost me!


Everybody is going back and forth about rhinos and asses, and our nation's first president cautioned strongly against 2 party systems. Look at Washington's farewell address.

[wyntrout]

I think that I just said that -- that it's not the Democratic Party, but a group of radicals and extremists who want to turn this country into their idea of a "Marxist Utopia". This didn't start with Obama... it started over 100 years ago and Obama made reference to the Progressive movement starting over a hundred years ago in Minnesota. He and his buddies don't claim to be Democrats... they are part of the PROGRESSIVE Movement! Look it up. It IS a conspiracy to tear our country down and rebuild it as THEY see fit -- the enlightened, intellectual elites will take care of the non-enlightened populace. that's the fundamental changing of our society/government/way of life. They mean to destroy the thing that gave all of us jobs and created wealth -- capitalism, AND the document guaranteeing our rights and protection FROM the government! Don't you listen to what Obama and his cronies say?? They have said all along what they intended to do, but most people just hear what they want to hear. Destroy the evil rich and their capitalist economy... and redistribute the wealth... great idea -- just like slicing the golden goose open to get all of those golden eggs NOW.
They WANT the government to bankrupt and fail, so they can pick up the pieces and remake it as they want... getting rid of all of those pesky checks and balances and all of those "peoples' rights". They'll let us have what they want to give us and the rest is theirs to do with as they please. They have been openly saying what their agenda is all along, but they think we're all too stupid to see what's going on as long as they promise us the "stuff" that they take from the ones who earned or produced it.
Their heroes and inspirations are Karl Marx, Stalin, Mao, and Castro. I'm not sure anyone wants to get inspiration from North Korea's Great Leaders. They follow the Cloward and Piven Strategy of collapsing our economy by overburdening it and the government by trying to get as many people on welfare and causing the government to bankrupt. I guess you haven't noticed that bit. These Progressives have long worked in the background but now the gloves are off and they have the power of the Presidency behind them. Most, if not all, of Obama's czars and cabinet members are Progressives -- not Democrats -- some openly talk of inspiration from Mao and even Hitler. Hillary is certainly proudly proclaiming to be a Modern Progressive, not a Democrat or "Liberal".
Any way you look at it, none of these Progressives, Socialists, Communists or whatever, are keen on the populace "clinging to their Guns and Religion"... and being able to resist with force their enlightened plans for a government controlled collective where you are suffered existence as long as you are positively contributing to their plans, in their eyes. This type of government has not worked for Stalin, Hitler, Mao, North Korea, or Castro... BUT these Progressives are so much smarter and think that they can get it right this time. They can then continue to write history as they see fit and all will be hunky-dory... for the new enlightened "Elite" few that sit on top of the heap the rest of us make.
Ahh, Grasshopper, many people are comfortable with their heads buried deep in the sand... as long as they are promised all of these new "rights" and the government takes care of them. When capitalism is dead and there's no new wealth creation, sacrifices will have to be made and thankfully, your benevolent and enlightened new leaders will be glad to make those terrible choices for you... as did Stalin and Mao when they had more people than food or wealth to accomplish their goals. Stalin killed or let starve 20 to 30 MILLION of his own people to further his goals and Mao 60 to 70 MILLION of his own people to try to accomplish his plans -- mere drops in the bucket for the latter. We all must make our sacrifices and giving up our weapons and homes and food and other luxuries will help the government care for the less fortunate masses, who will praise the great leaders' beneficence. Ahh, but keep thinking all parties are the same and don't worry about that stuff and hurt your head, you'll soon live in that wonderful Utopia that past "great ones" tried and failed to perfect.
Wynn:D

[jeep45238]

Wynn, believe it or not, I'm a lot more educated in history than most my age (I'm 25 for reference).

I'm more than aware of the progressive movement and marxism. I'm also extremely aware of our nation's history and roots. I haven't forgotten the actions of Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Washington, Jackson, Adams, and a vast amount of others.

History repeats itself, like it or not. The more you learn about history, and the better you are at drawing parallels, the less likely you are to make those same mistakes.

Unfortunately, societies always go through a cyclic path, on occasion skipping the republic phase. They start in chaos, and end in chaos.

I do believe that one person can forever change the course of history. I, however, doubt that there are many alive today with the fortitude and desire to do so positively - and those that are trying to achieve 'positive' change have their heads so far up their ass it's not funny.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KVmRtEO18k

[wyntrout]

Jeep’ or Mike(?), I’m sorry that I didn’t get to answer you sooner. I’m sorry that I got a bit patronizing there, but you seemed to be flippant and throwing out random “quotes”
It's been a while since I studied any kind of history, but we used to do that -- study our Constitution and our form of government... and geography and how our country was a melting pot and how that made our country strong that people came from all over the world to find opportunities not available anywhere else. Our country was stronger because those people came here, learned to speak our language, got jobs, started businesses and were assimilated, becoming a part of the greater whole.
Now and for about the last 40 years that has changed. "We" celebrate the differences or "diversity" as being what makes us a great country. Self-esteem is a greater concern than achievement and consideration for others, which just makes little "centers of the universe" or very selfish, inconsiderate people. Our country and society struggled for years to get rid of any form of segregation and now that segregation is encouraged and celebrated with emphasis on diversity and the use of hyphenated nationalities like Afro-American instead of American.
Competition is discouraged and our kids are pumped full of psychotropic drugs in grade school because they get bored and act like kids. With both parents working, the kids are left to the schools to indoctrinate and prepare them to be good little "citizens" learning little of our actual history and government, depending on how "progressive" the teachers are. Kids are just moved along in the system with little progress in reading and math or anything of practical use. I know that every school is not like that, but there are always exceptions.
When I learned to read, that opened a whole new world and I eagerly read everything I could get my hands on. When reading, I'm participating and seeing things through the eyes of different people in the book. I learned empathy and many different points of view. Today most kids shun books and sit around playing video games where they blow people away and commit crimes in the more popular games. That's where people are just things the player blows away, without feelings for them... or even that they might have feelings. Then there's the "Gangsta" crap culture where criminals are glorified along with the drug culture. Most people can't become sports champions, but anyone can be a drug dealer/user or belong to a gang, even if it's wannabes.
Anyhow, all these kids are growing up self-centered and unprepared for the real and competitive world -- the product of "progressive" tinkering with textbooks and history. Too many believe the world owes them a living and they have all kinds of "rights" to stuff they didn't earn like a high paying job(or just checks from the government), a house, health insurance, and anything else most of us have worked hard to get.
I'm getting too far from where I wanted to go, but all of this rights and entitlement crap has the general population expecting and demanding everything imaginable from the government, but the government has to get this money from somewhere. So they take it from the productive and give what's left, after the corrupt politicians get their ever-growing cut, to the essentially human leaches or welfare recipients who are not producing anything but more mouths to feed and more new demands for stuff from the government. What's really sickening is that these leaches can vote and do vote to keep in office the corrupt politicians who promise them ever more stuff to be taken from the evil rich -- the people who take risks, venture their capital in businesses that provide jobs and produce consumer goods for everyone's benefit. After these evil rich are gone, where will the government get the money to fill its insatiable appetite for growth... after all banks and businesses have been nationalized and/or driven into the ground by bureaucrats who have no practical knowledge of business and certainly not the idea of "profit" -- a nasty word! This is all happening and our Great Teleprompter Reader and his cohorts want to control everything -- total government control of every aspect of our lives. Too many are just fat, dumb and happy with that.
It sucks that we have this “two-party” system for selecting and electing government officials. Both parties have so changed that most people don’t even know what “their Party” stands for anymore – party loyalty is a “tradition”. It’s hard to change that system and we’ve suffered by attempts like Ross Perot’s two attempts to run for president, splitting the vote three ways with the Democratic Party winning. In the last election the “mainstream media” promoted and “campaigned” for the “maverick” John McCain. After they successfully helped his being nominated and chosen to run for the Republicans, they stopped supporting him and switched all support to their real choice – Obama.
All of this has been leading up to this point in our history, where the very people that caused the problems we have, are going to “fix” it. They just need to spend us into the ground like they are doing and printing more money until our creditors stop loaning us money and then tax or seize all other wealth, taking advantage of a good crisis. Then they can save us by creating a new wonderful form of government where they, the self-deemed elites will take over and take care of all the poor people.
There are a few little details to take care of, though. Those open dissidents need to be silenced and all those non-government weapons need to be seized. The benevolent government will take care of the people’s needs and they won’t need weapons or other things dangerous to themselves to hunt for food.
Yes, there are more inconvenient details to take care of, but they have a PLAN and are working hard to implement it where the productive will be essentially enslaved to support the unproductive but voting majority of sheeple.
Well, I don’t know that I’ve done anything but ramble and its 04:14 now and I’m bleary-eyed and am going to call it quits… and shut up.:blushing::yo:
G'night.
Wynn:behindsofa:

[jeep45238]

I almost always have a direct applicable reasoning in my methods and responses ;)

Perot did not cause Cliton's election - the numbers simply aren't there. Just like how Bob Barr's running did not cause Obama's election - ALL of the 3rd party votes combined can't come close to making up the gap.

Anyway - the media is, and within the past 40 years, has been the deciding factor in political environments. John Mayer nailed it in his song "Waiting on the World to change" with this line:

cause when they own the information, oh
they can bend it all they wan

Unfortunately, he bombed the rest of the song by appealing to the bums who refuse to take responsibility for their situations or be proactive about changing it.

If you're looking for a good cheap book to read, I highly recommend "The American Patriot's Handbook" by George Grant.

[wyntrout]

jeep45238: in your signature: "You cannot change by reasoning a belief not acquired by logic."
Man, is that true -- for a lot of things, but especially religion and politics!

My most favorite "poet" and songwriter/singer is early Bob Dylan. When I first heard his music, it was a Navy petty officer that mimicked him pretty well with voice, guitar, and harmonica in our barracks at the Defense Language Institute(West Coast) at the Presidio of Monterey, Ca, in 1964. I was trained in Arabic for a year there with mixed services and some government guys in civvies -- diplomatic or covert(?) There were only USAF members in our class.
Anyhow, as you can imagine when I first heard that Dylan stuff, I thought it was horrible. Years later, when I had time to listen to the words and how prophetic(?) and real they were, I was hooked. I still listen to him and you can find the words to his songs being used everywhere, like the Beatles' songs and music. My favorite is the ultimate put-down song -- "Positively Fourth Street" -- The one that starts "You've got a lot of nerve, to say you are my friend...." and ends with "Yes, I wish that for just one time, you could stand inside my shoes. You'd know what a drag it is to see you." I just had to listen to that again.
Then there was Toby Keith's "Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue". There was no better song that epitomized the patriotic determination of our citizen soldiers to exact a terrible revenge on the those who organized and supported that attack on our country.
I might be wrong, but I think that it was Peter Jennings who magnanimously invited Toby onto the news show to talk about that inspirational and confrontational song, but Jennings wanted him to leave out the "put a boot in your ass" and rewrite that part for the TV show. Jennings was shocked that his little request was refused and that Toby refused to come on the show -- fantastic! Quite a departure from the Dixie Chicks, Jessica Lange, Sean Penn and others who condemned their country and apologized for US while abroad -- like Jane Fonda, Bill Clinton, John Kerry(went to Paris to support the North Vietnamese, while still attached to the Navy in WARTIME! Try finding THOSE military records -- very SEALED), and now OUR "great leader" and apologist for America.
We can only hope that enough people have awakened and do as the Massachusetts voters did last month this November. The "Dems" are still reeling and trying to play that down. They just don't get it. Nancy Pelosi sure doesn't. I don't think that those liberal Californians will toss out Pelosi, but I think that Harry Reid's days are numbered, especially after prezbo's comments about Las Vegas.

Woohoo! UPS just brought my Double Tap +P 9mm 124gr. Bonded Defense JHP, 1310fps/4.5"bbl (on box)and at DT site:

9mm+P 124gr Bonded Defense JHP 50rds. $36.95

These loads are low flash. They are a middleweight load that combines good penetration with near perfect expansion. A great CCW loading.

Caliber : 9mm+P

Bullet : Bonded Defense JHP

Ballistics : 124gr @ 1310fps / 473ft. lbs. from a G17.
124 @ 1295fps / 462 ft. lbs. from a G19
I need to eat and get to the range. These are supposedly Gold Dot bullets loaded up to +P. I'll take some photos and make a range report.
Later!
Wynn:)

[getsome]

I hear ya man, Every time I hear President of the United States Barack Obama, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton I just gotta believe I'm, having a terrible nightmare and when I wake up Ronald Reagan will be President again and all will be well!!! Hope those double taps live up to their reputation... do tell....:cool:

[Chief Joseph]

I almost always have a direct applicable reasoning in my methods and responses ;)

Perot did not cause Cliton's election - the numbers simply aren't there. Just like how Bob Barr's running did not cause Obama's election - ALL of the 3rd party votes combined can't come close to making up the gap.

Anyway - the media is, and within the past 40 years, has been the deciding factor in political environments. John Mayer nailed it in his song "Waiting on the World to change" with this line:

cause when they own the information, oh
they can bend it all they wan

Unfortunately, he bombed the rest of the song by appealing to the bums who refuse to take responsibility for their situations or be proactive about changing it.

If you're looking for a good cheap book to read, I highly recommend "The American Patriot's Handbook" by George Grant.

I disagree with the Perot analysis, I've read many of the analysis on the subject. I voted for Perot myself. I just couldn't get past the "read my lips, no new taxes", but given a choice between just the two, I could never have voted for clinton. There is no way to ever know for sure, and you can't defer to the "experts" because as we've seen on many an election day, they are no better at predicting than a commoner. They just get paid for their opinion and we don't. I'll never believe that clinton could have won without perot in the mix. I read one that gave an even split of voters leaving both bush and clinton to vote for perot, there's just no way. I don't care what any "edjicayted" individual tells me, I have my own eyes and lived through it.

[muggsy]

To paraphrase; "If you aren't a democrat in your twenties you have no heart. If you're still a democrat in your thirties you have no brains."

[HDoc]

International Gun Ban Treaty? | FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/international-gun-ban-treaty/)

It's an international arms trade issue.
Thank you for that. I'm sure it won't satisfy some folks paranoia.
( Even though: Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom )

[TheTman]

I did some checking and according to the NRA-ILA they have enough votes in the Senate to defeat treaty infringing on our gun rights. That doesn't mean those votes won't fly out the window when the Dems start applying pressure to those in their party who have signed on to vote against any arms treaty.

[jeepster09]

We in Minnesota know what is going on.....we elected Jesse the Bod.:eek:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/JesseVentura.png


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/3o83p03la5Z65W05R4b97230b1f19a5231e35.jpg

[muggsy]

NAGR Gun Rights Blog U.S. agrees to timetable for UN Gun Ban (http://nationalgunrights.org/blog/?p=359#more-359)

The hillary and the dems are backing us into a corner.

Tell them to bring friends. Lots of them.

[muggsy]

[QUOTE=Raoul;9697]International Gun Ban Treaty? | FactCheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/international-gun-ban-treaty/)

It's an international arms trade issue.[/QUOTE

I suggest that you "Fact Check" Annenburg. You'll find that he was a liberal progressive." Fact Check" has a liberal progressive bias.

[wyntrout]

We in Minnesota know what is going on.....we elected Jesse the Bod.:eek:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/JesseVentura.png


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/3o83p03la5Z65W05R4b97230b1f19a5231e35.jpg

Didn't (some of) you also elect Al Franken as U.S. Senator... WTF??

What's next... Michael Moore as governor?? :eek:

Wynn:rolleyes: