Vote For Obama

[wyntrout]

I just saw this on Facebook and "went off" for the last two hours:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2931837728718&set=a.1222040624859.2033864.1044250208&type=1&ref=nf

I just can't believe people can be so stupid, but there you are!

Wynn:(

[jocko]

I think Michelle wrote it and posted it under some ficticious name.. Only an ******* could post that.

[LonghornFan69]

Some people are just blind to the truth. I will give those that voted for him the first time around the benefit of the doubt because they were ignorant and uninformed but to vote for him again you have got to be stupid and a waste of my oxygen.

[Popeye]

Vote for Obama. They have a better chance of my woo,woo growing a fingernail.:rolleyes:

[getsome]

Well there you go...Looks like 4 more crappy years of Obummer...Theres just to many idiots out there that vote and don't have a clue...

I want to know where those 2.6 million private sector jobs are that the anointed one created because both my son and daughter along with thousands of unemployed folks would love to have one....

Free Kool Aid for all...Makes me want to :puke:

[wyntrout]

I'll copy and paste my inarticulate comments here since links seem to take you to the most current posts and this might be hard to find.

"If enough of YOU people "think" like this, then the country our forefathers fought and died for will soon be no more. The productive class will be enslaved and the fruits of their labor will be taken at gunpoint and given to those who support the great "Nanny State" until the "Elite" ones and their buddies have full control of the government and we have a "wonderful Utopian Society" like the Soviet Tyrants envisioned. Most of you are old enough to remember the documentaries that showed how the Soviet people lived... empty stores, long waiting lines for every essential item. Food and consumer goods were scarce.

Production declined because people aren't the automatons envisioned in the Marxist Socialist Utopian dreams. People see that it's futile to work hard when you get no more than the people sitting on their butts. When everyone has the same or is "equal", everyone will be poor because the "evil rich" have been destroyed. Their wealth will be taken from them and then there will be no more people with capital and entreprenural spirit to start or run businesses that give jobs to people. This is a less than subtle approach to get the votes of the DUMB MASSES(drop the M) so that SOON the "ELITE" Leaders will be able to take complete control of the country in crisis and destroy our great Constitution. THIS is Obama's aim... to be that "Great Leader". He wants to destroy Capitalism and our way of government. The Lame Stream Media is complicit in hiding his background and all of his college records. His mother was a radical Socialist... his father was a radical Communist... and he was raised by Communists from birth... where ever that actually was. His associations in college were with Marxist/Socialist/Communist/Progressives. Progressive is not good in this sense. That name was adopted because "Communist" became a bad word to most people, since we saw the sorry state of affairs in the brutal states where the populace was used as work animals for the good of the state... run by tyrants for the "Good of The Masses"... the people being too stupid and inferior to take care of themselves.

If you want something to read that makes sense and shows what's happening here, try The Law by French Economist Frédéric Bastiat(and journalist/philosopher). Excerpt from the forward:" Frédéric Bastiat’s classic essay, “The Law.” First published in 1850 by the great French economist and journalist, it is as clear a statement as has ever been made of the original American ideal of government, as proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence, that the main purpose of any government is the protection of the lives, liberties, and property of its citizens."

Here's a link to the pdf... free download... not too long: http://mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

We're getting close to the edge of the precipice where MORE than half of the people in this country pay no taxes. The politicians... both sides... promise the people more and more stuff to BUY their votes. This STUFF comes from somewhere. It's the "legalized plunder" of the productive citizens of our country... the ones who work. Our country was founded to give protection to the people... its citizens who wanted a chance to succeed and prosper without the tyranny of a government that took the fruits of their labors, giving little or nothing in return. Bestiat's The Law explains the function of government... and its perversion from the protection of "Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness". This stuff was NOT guaranteed, but you have the OPPORTUNITY to work hard and gain these things. Rights are intangibles like freedom of speech, religion, self defense. They cost no one else anything. Tangibles like property are supposed to be protected by a "government" formed by the people for mutual self defense. This government as designed by our forefathers had many limits and protections to keep it from becoming too powerful. Those forefathers are surely rolling over in their graves. The government has become a large cancer that is consuming everything. It wants no less than ABSOLUTE CONTROL over every aspect of our lives... since we are not smart enough to fend for ourselves. The politicians figured out how to legalize plunder and take stuff from the citizens for THEMSELVES... AND to buy the votes of the simpletons who think that being provided STUFF forcibly taken from others is a good thing. This IS a downward spiral for our country. Millions came from all over the world to have a chance to work hard... the OPPORTUNITY... to do so, providing a future for them and their children. The polticians and GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS have raised generations of new soon-to-be-SUBJECTS with expectations of everything being provided to them as a RIGHT. Almost half the country lives off the work of others now and soon this trend will be irreversible and our children's children and grandchildren will curse those of you who let this happen... and they are FREE no more, but slaves to the STATE and its now ruthless tyrants firmly in charge of their very lives.

I really can spell... just not a typist. I forget and hit the enter button for carriage return and, boom... it's "posted". Trying to correct each segment will get stuff out of position.

As for the 50% without jobs... whose fault is that? The politicians... the left... the Democrats... want to curry more favor with the "poor" and make homes available for everyone... forcing banks to make loans to people who couldn't make regular RENT payments. Then they forced the banks to handle the loans in ways that caused each of the subsequent mortgage holders... the financial institutions... to sell the bundled mortgages for some quick gain until the bubble burst. Bush's administration warned of this and tried to get the situation reversed, but Barney Frank and others said that the system was sound and pressed on. The government produces nothing... it sucks up all available resources to grow its bureaucracies and make more citizens become dependent subjects. When the government runs out of productive citizens to plunder, it will be forced to cut the goods and services to the now unsupportable dependent class. This is were you'll see the "death committees or panels" deciding who is worth giving more of the STATE's medical resources... certainly not to the old and sick who no longer have any benefit to the STATE. EVERYTHING will be rationed and handed out to the "worthy" elite and their friends... and the poor slobs who are still working or producing for the STATE.

We have plenty of examples of this decline and decay... contemporary ones, too, as Greece is now. We have at the moment something that most other countries don't have. We have an ARMED POPULACE with a means to defend ourselves... the very meaning of freedom and liberty. We also have a strong military composed of citizens to protect us. Obama is working on those inconveniences... downsizing and cutting funds to the military. Soon we won't be able to wage ONE war, let alone two. So while we are busing defending ourselves or allies in one theater, any of our enemies will see this as a chance to attack us while we're engaged elsewhere. As for the armed citizenry, he's working on that, too, through executive orders, the various federal agencies at his disposal, and by appointing judges and justices who favor abolishing the 2nd Amendment and our right of self-defense... especially from a tyrannical government. A second term for this "hater-of-all-that-America--stands-for" will be able to appoint enough judges to our highest court so that they can re-interpret the Constitution to their hearts' content and essentially re-write it as they will. Remember that Obama's first year was spent flying all over the world making apologies to everyone about America's past actions and bowing... literally!... and scraping before some of the most despotic rulers. He hates OUR America and would rebuild it in his warped Marxist/Socialist manner to give us his "enlightened leadership". "

I don't know if I'll have to break this up... I need a break... my blood pressure is really up... more than usual!!

Wynn:)

[TheTman]

Stupid is as stupid does.

[RodeoX]

I will be voting for Obama. I'm not really a zealot about it, but being liberal minded, he is the best choice i have.

[KMA]

Well, it tells what kind of people voted for him and where this country is going :rolleyes:

[LonghornFan69]

Liberalism is a mental disorder and it is killing our country.

[Dueeast]

Some people should not be allowed to vote or reproduce. They clearly do NOT educate themselves politically, and get their political knowledge from the bumper sticker on the car in front of them. :mad:

[Dueeast]

Some people should not be allowed to vote or reproduce. They clearly do NOT educate themselves politically, and get their political knowledge from the bumper sticker on the car in front of them. :mad: Look up Psalms 109.8

[LonghornFan69]

some people should not be allowed to vote or reproduce. They clearly do not educate themselves politically, and get their political knowledge from the bumper sticker on the car in front of them. :mad: Look up psalms 109.8

amen!!! :)

[Bawanna]

I will be voting for Obama. I'm not really a zealot about it, but being liberal minded, he is the best choice i have.

Your a very brave person. I'm from Missouri and so from birth I'm conditioned so that I can't tell a lie. In your position I surely would have thought up something else to say. The best choice is any choice but the one you chose.
Your the first person I've found that admitted to voting for him, I assume last time too. Can't get a single person to admit they did, and I've asked alot of people.

[wyntrout]

The magnanimous use of stuff taken from the rightful owners and producers to make yourself feel good is theft! And when the politicians can make laws to protect their plundering of the productive citizens... IT"S STILL PLUNDER... and NOT RIGHT. You have no RIGHT to anyone else's labor... it's the worst kind of slavery... bad for the recipient and the producer. Sooner or later there will be more demand on the producers, and fewer producers... and ever increasing death spiral of our society... as the producers give way to the dependent parasites sucking the life out of our country. Then the GOVERNMENT will be forced to make the hard choices... who do they favor with the dwindling goods and services... those old and infirm people who no longer serve a "useful" purpose... or the one's who might still contribute to the STATE. Yes, we're talking about the "death panels" who'll decide the pros and cons of continuing to provide for useless burdens to the STATE.
Check out a real history of the Soviet Union and see how Stalin took all of the grain from the Ukraine and left its productive citizens to starve... some 10 million people... in one of the "breadbaskets" of the Soviet Union... because they didn't support Stalin's tyranny.
See how Greece is faring now. It would have fallen several times before now, but for the combined European effort to keep them afloat. It is still going to fail because the leftist labor bunch doesn't want any kind of austerity... living within the means of the people's ability to support a reasonable government.
We have our own 'experiment going" on the LEFT coast. How many think that Kalifornia will be able to remain "afloat" without Federal Government help... their usual magnanimosity of stripping the wealth from the working people in the rest of the country and allowing the madness to continue in Kalifornia??

Wynn

[OldLincoln]

I used to believe that liberals were simply confused, not educated on the principles and issues, wealthy or otherwise distracted. I was partnered up at work with a serious liberal who is the nicest guy you could ever meet. He was active in the outdoors and drive one of those "Don't need no stinkin roads" safari type vehicles (Land Cruiser or ?).

Anyway, over time we got to know each other and we talked a little about politics but without arguments. One day at lunch I told him I was brought up conservative and never understood the mindset of liberals. I asked him to explain where they really come from, what they believe and how they got to where they are.

What he told me changed my opinion of some liberals. This man truly believes the liberal stuff. He tries to help the "less fortunate" to the extent he can and believes it is the modern role of government to provide and bring everybody out of poverty no matter what. He doesn't see that as a conflict with the constitution because we are a different country today than when it was written.

It was a really pleasant conversation and lights went on allowing me to look at it from their side. I still strongly disagree with them and remain a staunch conservative who wants government to go back to it's constitutional role, but now I don't believe they are all wackos and card carrying loonies. Well some exceptions apply like Michael Moore, and about 100 other opportunists.

[wyntrout]

It's not funny that most of the people I know don't vote... don't get involved in politics... the very thing that differentiates us from lower animals... reasoning and education... our only voice in the matters that concern every facet of our daily lives.
The ones that did vote for Obama were sorry that they were fooled and only listened to his promises of Hope and Change. They paid no attention to his background... as NOT covered, but hidden by the media... nor his friends, among whom are the establishers of the 60's Weather Underground and other radical anti-establishment, anti-capitalistic revolutionary agitators and TERRORISTS!

Wynn

[LaP]

That hand-written sign left out a few key points.

- He personally killed Bin Laden

- He influence last years massive snow storm to move its path out towards the ocean.

- He's curing cancer, AIDS, tuberculosis, and old age.

- He smokes enough to keep thousands of tobacco farmers in business.

Truly, he is the greatest human to grace this planet.
Therefore I fart in his general direction.:cool:

[Frankhenrylee]

It's not just the liberals or the conservatives, it's the two party system that the government continues to force upon the public by way of the electoral college. We will always be forced to choose between dems or reps and neither party will allow anyone in that won't play thier kind of ball. Just look at Ron Paul. The guy bleeds honesty, but he gets beat out by Newt Gingrich, the slimiest guy in the race. Nope, we'll have to choose between Obama and Romney. They give us the illusion of freedom of choice and then they stack the deck with their cards. They'll watch it crumble before they change their ways, just look at the debt ceiling debacle.

On another note, why don't rich people pay in the same percentage of income tax as poor folks like me? They can afford to pay their taxes a whole lot easier than I can.

I'm about 65% conservative and 35% liberal. I go to college four nights a week and work full-time. I don't want no stinking handouts, but if the government is gonna tax me into poverty I do expect some services in return. They could cut my taxes about 35% for me to be 100% conservative, but that will never happen.

[muggsy]

I will be voting for Obama. I'm not really a zealot about it, but being liberal minded, he is the best choice i have.

Like P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute." Make sure that the Obama administration knows that your a gun owner.

[Bill K]

Perhaps the "mantra" that irks me the most is "everyone should pay their fair share". You know I agree with it but feel that "fair share" would be everyone with increase/income would pay the same percentage wise. Kinda like the biblical tithing system. But hey, what does God know about being "fair"?

[muggsy]

The magnanimous use of stuff taken from the rightful owners and producers to make yourself feel good is theft! And when the politicians can make laws to protect their plundering of the productive citizens... IT"S STILL PLUNDER... and NOT RIGHT. You have no RIGHT to anyone else's labor... it's the worst kind of slavery... bad for the recipient and the producer. Sooner or later there will be more demand on the producers, and fewer producers... and ever increasing death spiral of our society... as the producers give way to the dependent parasites sucking the life out of our country. Then the GOVERNMENT will be forced to make the hard choices... who do they favor with the dwindling goods and services... those old and infirm people who no longer serve a "useful" purpose... or the one's who might still contribute to the STATE. Yes, we're talking about the "death panels" who'll decide the pros and cons of continuing to provide for useless burdens to the STATE.
Check out a real history of the Soviet Union and see how Stalin took all of the gfrain from the Ukraine and left its productive citizens to starve... some 10 million people... in one of the "breadbaskets" of the Soviet Union... because they didn't support Stalin's tyranny.
See how Greece is faring now. It would have fallen several times before now, but for the combined European effort to keep them afloat. It is still going to fail because the leftist labor bunch doesn't want any kind of austerity... living within the means of the people's ability to support a reasonable government.
We have our own 'experiment going" on the LEFT coast. How many think that Kalifornia will be able to remain "afloat" without Federal Government help... their usual magnanimosity of stripping the wealth from the working people in the rest of the country and allowing the madness to continue in Kalifornia??

Wynn

My Paternal Grandfather and Grandmother escaped Ukraine just prior to WWII. Their relatives who weren't executed by the Germans were starved to death by the Russians.

[JFootin]

Perhaps the "mantra" that irks me the most is "everyone should pay their fair share". You know I agree with it but feel that "fair share" would be everyone with increase/income would pay the same percentage wise. Kinda like the biblical tithing system. But hey, what does God know about being "fair"?

+1. The Fair Tax will do that.

[O'Dell]

+1. The Fair Tax will do that.

You got that right!

[getsome]

Jfootin you are exactly right...The Fair Tax is the simplest most all around sensible and fair tax system which is exactly why the Government will never let us have it...

[yqtszhj]

+1. The Fair Tax will do that.

1. I'll vote for that. I'll even give up my deductions if everyone pays the same.

2. Then we need to get rid of everyone that is currently in Washington.

3. Also I have no problem with liberals, especially those that want to help the less fortunate. They can even come ask me for a donation and I might even donate. I like helping people with my time and money. It's the Godly thing to do.

4. I DO NOT want the government to take my donation because they cant manage what they are taking from me now. see number 2.

[crazymailman]

On another note, why don't rich people pay in the same percentage of income tax as poor folks like me? They can afford to pay their taxes a whole lot easier than I can.


You've got to be kidding!


The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.

The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.

The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.

The top 25 percent: Americans who earned at least $66,532 paid 86.6 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 86.3 percent a year earlier.

The top 50 percent: Americans who earned at least $32,879 paid 97.1 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 97 percent a year earlier.

The bottom 50 percent: Americans who earned less than $32,879 paid 2.9 percent of the nation's income taxes, down from 3 percent a year earlier.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm

[Tinman507]

1. I'll vote for that. I'll even give up my deductions if everyone pays the same.

2. Then we need to get rid of everyone that is currently in Washington.

3. Also I have no problem with liberals, especially those that want to help the less fortunate. They can even come ask me for a donation and I might even donate. I like helping people with my time and money. It's the Godly thing to do.

4. I DO NOT want the government to take my donation because they cant manage what they are taking from me now. see number 2.

+1 ^ what he said!

[jocko]

its class warefare with obnama, never seen this country be so divided as he has made it. When 50% pay no federal taxes, how can u call anything fair to the other 50%. When we had the wpa DAYS PEOPLE WORKED BECAUSE THEY WERE PROUD not free loaders, they were down and out but they didn't want handouts. We are one step below of becoming Greece. Thowe people over there have been so used to their government taking care of them that they don't know what work is, let alone now there is no work. Being a business man for over 40 years I have seen many people come into my business years back when it was required that they get 20 signarues a week from business that state they are not employing, before they could collect unemploymjent. So many would come in with that paper and their first words to me was UR NOT HIRING ARE U? please sign this paper for me. Had I said yes I am hiring, they would have walked out. That sh-t got real old with me

I will pay my fair share of taxes any day, when it is fair to ALL. Someone should tell WarrenBuffet that at the bottom of his income tax statement is a box where he can list what he is donating to our government.

[1radman]

+1...Well Done!


You've got to be kidding!


The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.

The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.

The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.

The top 25 percent: Americans who earned at least $66,532 paid 86.6 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 86.3 percent a year earlier.

The top 50 percent: Americans who earned at least $32,879 paid 97.1 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 97 percent a year earlier.

The bottom 50 percent: Americans who earned less than $32,879 paid 2.9 percent of the nation's income taxes, down from 3 percent a year earlier.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm

[1radman]

Frankenrylee;
"On another note, why don't rich people pay in the same percentage of income tax as poor folks like me? They can afford to pay their taxes a whole lot easier than I can."

"I'm about 65% conservative and 35% liberal. I go to college four nights a week and work full-time. I don't want no stinking handouts, but if the government is gonna tax me into poverty I do expect some services in return. They could cut my taxes about 35% for me to be 100% conservative, but that will never happen."[/QUOTE]

Keep working hard on the job and your education and some day you'll likely be one of those "rich " guys.
And you'll wonder "what the **** was I thinking?"

[jocko]

now ask those 50% if the "wealthy" should pay ore income taxes and what answer do u think ur gonna get. Pretty easy to manipulate polls. That probalby why obamma will get back in,, those 50% who pay nothing want to keep it that way,oh excuse me 2.9%

nice job crazymailman...

[yqtszhj]

You've got to be kidding!


The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.

The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.

The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.

The top 25 percent: Americans who earned at least $66,532 paid 86.6 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 86.3 percent a year earlier.

The top 50 percent: Americans who earned at least $32,879 paid 97.1 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 97 percent a year earlier.

The bottom 50 percent: Americans who earned less than $32,879 paid 2.9 percent of the nation's income taxes, down from 3 percent a year earlier.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm

I was feeling pretty good until you posted this and now I realize (I probably did earlier but ignored it) what group I fall in. Now I'm p*i*s*s*e*d. I sure don't feel rich and I'm just trying to get debt free and now I'm in the group that pays most of the taxes. I work and am on call 24/7/365, the wife stays home and cares for me and the kids, and now I know my security system won't stop the ones that are really robbing me.

Vote the rascals out!!!!:mad:

[jocko]

Frankenrylee;
"On another note, why don't rich people pay in the same percentage of income tax as poor folks like me? They can afford to pay their taxes a whole lot easier than I can."

"I'm about 65% conservative and 35% liberal. I go to college four nights a week and work full-time. I don't want no stinking handouts, but if the government is gonna tax me into poverty I do expect some services in return. They could cut my taxes about 35% for me to be 100% conservative, but that will never happen."

Keep working hard on the job and your education and some day you'll likely be one of those "rich " guys.
And you'll wonder "what the **** was I thinking?"[/QUOTE]

saying rich people don't pay taxes in the same percentage of u???How do u qualify that statement??? What is ur percentage of tax rate. For me I am totally retired, my only icome is SSI and income from investments, dividends and interest. I am taxed at 15% on those investments, as major taxes have already been taxed once on those investments before I ever get my dividend or interst. How many times do we want to tax the same fokking dollar bill. Many older people still have their moneys tied up in the bank cd's and they only pay 15%on that interest, so do we punish them.

A flat tax is the only fair tax but that will never happen for the 50% of those who pay zero,nadda,nothing will never go for that. NIMBY = not in my backyard. I paid my way through 4 years of college with no government help, Hell student loans back in the 60's was non existant.. I am 68 and I have worked allmy frikkin life and Now I would like to keep the fruits of my labor but that a-hole in washington is playing class warfare and that is totally unAMERICAN.

[TriggerMan]

...and now I know my security system won't stop the ones that are really robbing me.
Priceless, I'll be quoting you often.

[Bawanna]

Keep working hard on the job and your education and some day you'll likely be one of those "rich " guys.
And you'll wonder "what the **** was I thinking?"

saying rich people don't pay taxes in the same percentage of u???How do u qualify that statement??? What is ur percentage otax rate. For me I amtotally retired, my only icome is SSI and income from investments, dividends and interest. I am taxed at 15% on those investments, as major taxes have already been taxed once on those investments before I ever get my dividend or interst. How many times do we want to tax the same fokking dollar bill. Many older people stillhve their moneystied up in the bank cd's and they onloy pay 15%on that interest, so do we punish them.

A flat tax is the only fair tax but that will never happen for the 50% of those who pay zero,nadda,nothing will never go for that. NIMBY = not in my backyard. I paid my way through 4 years of college with no government help, Hell student loans back in the 60's was non existant..[/QUOTE]

You went to college for four years. Let me guess......majored in english?

[TriggerMan]

Keep working hard on the job and your education and some day you'll likely be one of those "rich " guys.
And you'll wonder "what the **** was I thinking?"


saying rich people don't pay taxes in the same percentage of u???How do u qualify that statement??? What is ur percentage otax rate. For me I amtotally retired, my only icome is SSI and income from investments, dividends and interest. I am taxed at 15% on those investments, as major taxes have already been taxed once on those investments before I ever get my dividend or interst. How many times do we want to tax the same fokking dollar bill. Many older people stillhve their moneystied up in the bank cd's and they onloy pay 15%on that interest, so do we punish them.

A flat tax is the only fair tax but that will never happen for the 50% of those who pay zero,nadda,nothing will never go for that. NIMBY = not in my backyard. I paid my way through 4 years of college with no government help, Hell student loans back in the 60's was non existant..


You may wish to correct the reference to SSI (Supplemental Security Income). It's a welfare program requiring NO ASSETS or other income. I'm betting you have Social Security Retirement income or SS Disability.

FYI, Interest is not taxed at the 15% capital gains rate I think you refer to, rather as ordinary income. In your case that ought to be close to zero.

[wyntrout]

I had school loans and paid them back... from 1969-1972. I didn't really need the loans, but they helped with my pitiful GI Bill... $105 a month when I was single and the minimum wage was $1.25, or $1.15 an hour in the danged chicken hatchery where I worked while going to college.

And Frankenrylee, WT heck! I paid 25% on my highest marginal rate last year... and 85% of my Social Security was at that rate... due to the Clinton Regime... another thing that wasn't supposed to be taxed... EVER!

Hillary and her "Think Tank" wanted to take 15% of all retirement funds... a one-time fee... yeah, right!

The highest marginal rate is 39% with the add-on for being rich or whatever... then there's the Alternative Minimal Tax... another I gotcha!

A millionaire paying 10% pays ten times more than someone paying 10% on 100,000. Why doesn't everyone pay the same damned rate... the more money they make, the more they pay in taxes. Why is it fair to take 39% or even more, as the "Great Leader" would do. It's class warfare... all about greed and envy. I would like to be rich... maybe I'll win more than 100K or so one of these days in the lottery. THEN, the Feds and some states want whatever you have left when you die... after paying all of the taxes all of your life. How's that FAIR!???!

Wynn:)

[jocko]

sorry twice I have done that yes. SS.I guess my point is I pay my taxes according to the law. Many pay nothiing and then think we should even pay more. Unemployment willnever get below 5% as that is about the percent that will never work no matter what we try to do. ow for me that difference between that 5%$ and what percent we are at today need our help BUT NOT FOREVER. That is exactly what ishappeningin Europe and greece, those people have been taken care of by the government for years on end andnow they don't knowhow to go out and do it on their own AND THEIR PISSED so what do those good wise people do. THEY FOKKING BURN DOWN THEIR OWN TOWN.:der:

My dad who suffered through the depression used to tell all of us kids..." MAKE ALL U CAN AND CAN ALL U MAKE...ots of truth to that.

[TriggerMan]

....
The highest marginal rate is 39% with the add-on for being rich or whatever... then there's the Alternative Minimal Tax... another I gotcha!

...

Wynn:)
Be glad we aren't under the 90% top marginal rate from the Eisenhower Administration.

[yqtszhj]

Priceless, I'll be quoting you often.

I would ask for royalties for using the quote but they would just tax them too so get yourself some cash somehow for when you use it and keep it for yourself. Someone needs to enjoy it.

[1radman]

Keep working hard on the job and your education and some day you'll likely be one of those "rich " guys.
And you'll wonder "what the **** was I thinking?"

saying rich people don't pay taxes in the same percentage of u???How do u qualify that statement??? What is ur percentage of tax rate. For me I am totally retired, my only icome is SSI and income from investments, dividends and interest. I am taxed at 15% on those investments, as major taxes have already been taxed once on those investments before I ever get my dividend or interst. How many times do we want to tax the same fokking dollar bill. Many older people still have their moneys tied up in the bank cd's and they only pay 15%on that interest, so do we punish them.

A flat tax is the only fair tax but that will never happen for the 50% of those who pay zero,nadda,nothing will never go for that. NIMBY = not in my backyard. I paid my way through 4 years of college with no government help, Hell student loans back in the 60's was non existant.. I am 68 and I have worked allmy frikkin life and Now I would like to keep the fruits of my labor but that a-hole in washington is playing class warfare and that is totally unAMERICAN.[/QUOTE]

I was trying to quote Frankenrylee but I boogered it up.
My comment was that if he keeps working hard and educating himself, he too may be "rich" someday and look back and wonder what the **** was he thinking

[jocko]

Be glad we aren't under the 90% top marginal rate from the Eisenhower Administration.

hell most all have forgotten about that, kids today weren't even here Please don't remind the GREAT ONE ABOUT THAT:19:

[Frankhenrylee]

You've got to be kidding!


The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.

The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.

The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.

The top 25 percent: Americans who earned at least $66,532 paid 86.6 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 86.3 percent a year earlier.

The top 50 percent: Americans who earned at least $32,879 paid 97.1 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 97 percent a year earlier.

The bottom 50 percent: Americans who earned less than $32,879 paid 2.9 percent of the nation's income taxes, down from 3 percent a year earlier.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm

Great stats here. Goes to show that if the bottom 50% were taxed less it wouldn't have any significant difference on the numbers, and would have the same trickle down effect as cutting taxes for the rich. Us poor folks spend all of our money on beer and Nascar T-shirts, so all of that tax cut would go right back into the economy. Romney paid about 13.9% on his 21.7 million in 2010, I wonder how my percentage compares to that?

[Bill K]

Be glad we aren't under the 90% top marginal rate from the Eisenhower Administration.

1913-1915 7%
1919-1921 73%
1925-1931 25% (oops 1929 24%)

Point being it has been all over the place since first instituted. The rich, IMHO and I'm not one of them, should percentage wise pay no more nor no less than the lowest income earner.

[JFootin]

1913-1915 7%
1919-1921 73%
1925-1931 25% (oops 1929 24%)

Point being it has been all over the place since first instituted. The rich, IMHO and I'm not one of them, should percentage wise pay no more nor no less than the lowest income earner.

The income tax is so completely WRONG! It is regressive, it penalizes industry, productivity and ambition. A consumption tax—the Fair Tax—is the only fair and equitable way to do it, and it has a pre-bate designed into it to protect the truly needy. The rich will still pay the large majority of taxes because they will buy more and more expensive things. On peoples' paychecks, there would be no deductions for tax withholding or FICA; they would get the entire amount unless they are required to contribute for medical care plan, and of course for IRAs and retirement contirbutions. The IRS, that big mean Big Brother on the back of every working citizen, would be eliminated! And so would estate taxes, and business taxes, and FICA, and capital gains taxes, et al. The business and investment environment would be so fantastically great that it would quickly draw tens of trillions of dollars into the country, businesses will want to move here from all over the world. the deficit and the debt would vanish and this nation would become 100 times more prosperous than it has ever been.

[crazymailman]

Great stats here. Goes to show that if the bottom 50% were taxed less it wouldn't have any significant difference on the numbers, and would have the same trickle down effect as cutting taxes for the rich. Us poor folks spend all of our money on beer and Nascar T-shirts, so all of that tax cut would go right back into the economy. Romney paid about 13.9% on his 21.7 million in 2010, I wonder how my percentage compares to that?

If it wouldn't have any effect on the tax numbers, it won't have any effect on the economy either. If Romney paid 80%, how would that benefit you, or other poor folks? Will that put any more money into your pocket? If the government confiscated all of the money that the wealthy have, it wouldn't fix anything. Also, if you poor folks would stop spending all your money on beer and NASCAR t-shirts, maybe you wouldn't stay poor.;)

[Ubaldo99]

Hey! People! We are trying to have a civilization here! Relax. Take a few deep breaths. If you could passively accept the 8-year debacle of the George W. years, then you can survive an Obama reelection. Good grief. Chill-out. :)

[wyntrout]

WE might survive but our way of life... our society and our Representative Republic won't. Bush wasn't trying to get rid of Capitalism, give the Bums' Rush to our allies and friends, weaken the country's stance in the world, nor take a world tour apologizing for all of the things America... the U.S.A. has done. Who rattled your cage anyhow?? Did we wake you up??

Wynn:D

[tv_racin_fan]

Great stats here. Goes to show that if the bottom 50% were taxed less it wouldn't have any significant difference on the numbers, and would have the same trickle down effect as cutting taxes for the rich. Us poor folks spend all of our money on beer and Nascar T-shirts, so all of that tax cut would go right back into the economy. Romney paid about 13.9% on his 21.7 million in 2010, I wonder how my percentage compares to that?

I would be willing to bet you paid even less than that in federal income taxes.

Just for the record the so called Bush Tax Cuts cut taxes on EVERYONE who earned a wage. Just for the record before the "Bush Tax Cuts" a single person making up to about $35,000 was taxed at the 15% rate, after the tax cuts he would be taxed at a 10% rate up to about $8500.

Kinda hard to tax the bottom less without also taxing the top less since in point of fact that is how the system works EVERYONE pays the lowest percentage on earnings up to the next rate and so forth and so on.

I have a W2 form nearby, wont even claim who it belongs to (it aint mine). Anyhoo this person had earnings of right at $65,000 and federal withholdings of $5690. If I go by recent history this person will get a refund check of about $200. Now you do the math there and tell me what percentage this person paid in federal income taxes and explain how that person paid a higher percentage than ole Warren or Mitt. Look at your own W2 and do the calculations.

OOO Jerry Clower just came on..

[LaP]

I love political debates.

[Frankhenrylee]

Who said "raise the taxes on the rich?" Why is it when someone wants to talk about fair taxation or a flat tax, it's the top 30%-40% that start screaming about "don't raise my taxes." Hmmm, I wonder...

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I seen a new Kyle Busch shirt down at the Valero station while I was picking up a 30 pack of Coors Light and some lottery tickets. I guess that'll have to wait until next paycheck, DANG!

One more thing: I give up

[Bill K]

Who said "raise the taxes on the rich?" Why is it when someone wants to talk about fair taxation or a flat tax, it's the top 30%-40% that start screaming about "don't raise my taxes." Hmmm, I wonder...

Really? I haven't heard the screaming. When you say "fair taxation" are you meaning that the more you earn the more percentage wise you should pay - i.e. the graduated income tax system we have today? I would argue that our graduated income tax system is unfair. I believe a flat tax system would be fair - even if it were to raise MY taxes.

[Frankhenrylee]

I am for a flat tax as well. OK, I truly am giving up now, this is cutting into my free time where I just sit, stare and drool.

[Wayne Nelson]

I like my CM9!

Sure, Bush dug us a deep hole with our economy, but Obama dug us a deeper hole by spending 3X more than Bush did. What Obama spent in his first year in office was only second in cost to what WWII cost this country. WWII cost a little more. That's a fact, look it up for yourself!

All of that Obama Care sounds and looks good on paper but report the whole story not just what the title says. Do you really want to give and pay for health care for all illeagal alliens in this country and give them all social security payments that we all had to pay into and save for our retirements which they never put one dime into?

I might not like our choices this voting year but I would never vote for Obama again!
JMO

[Tinman507]

I love political debates.

for the record, I like pie

[Frankhenrylee]

I think we've digressed a little. One thing's for sure. We are all taxed too much. They tax what we make, they tax what we spend, and if it's large enough they'll tax what we own annually. To get the record straight, I am for lower taxes(duh).

I like pie too, but in the tradition of politics and forums we'll have to decide which is better, pie or cake?

[Tinman507]

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/small/1012/michelle-antoinette-let-them-eat-cake-political-poster-1291336693.jpg

[JFootin]

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Misc/Iran-Death-Star.jpg

[popgoestheweasel]

Who said "raise the taxes on the rich?" Why is it when someone wants to talk about fair taxation or a flat tax, it's the top 30%-40% that start screaming about "don't raise my taxes." Hmmm, I wonder...

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I seen a new Kyle Busch shirt down at the Valero station while I was picking up a 30 pack of Coors Light and some lottery tickets. I guess that'll have to wait until next paycheck, DANG!

One more thing: I give up

Yipeeee, chalk up yet another victory for the karh gun/political forum. You stab 'em, I'll bag 'em. Next man up?

[Bawanna]

Who said "raise the taxes on the rich?" Why is it when someone wants to talk about fair taxation or a flat tax, it's the top 30%-40% that start screaming about "don't raise my taxes." Hmmm, I wonder...

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I seen a new Kyle Busch shirt down at the Valero station while I was picking up a 30 pack of Coors Light and some lottery tickets. I guess that'll have to wait until next paycheck, DANG!

One more thing: I give up

Aw man, how much was the Kyle Busch shirt? Was it XXL? That's a must have item right there.

I'm a multi tasker myself, I can sit, stare, drool and moderate all at the same time cept when my drool cup runneth over, then I gotta go empty it of course.
I seen a new 2 quart drool cup I'm saving up for since it ain't covered under the mandatory health program, that should save a lot of down time.

[wyntrout]

... And, draw a paycheck, too.

Wynn:D

[getsome]

Hey Bawann, They got those great big drool cups with the handle and a lid on them so ya don't spill anything on you down at the Qwik Trip....Mine has Dale Jr's picture on it and it works great...Ifen you want one I'll pick one up for you but I ain't buying narry a thang with that scum bucket Kyle Busch's picture on it...Anybody else is ok though...:p

[Armybrat]

Be glad we aren't under the 90% top marginal rate from the Eisenhower Administration.

The rate had reached 94 percent during World War II, on income over $200,000 (approx. $2.49 million in today's dollars). It dropped down to 91 percent in 1946 and remained there until the Kennedy tax cuts in 1962-64. Brackets weren't inflation adjusted back then, so it still applied on income over $200,000, which by then had reached $1.41 million in today's dollars.

[RodeoX]

We should keep in mind that a brazillion dollars is about to be spent to divide us. It will spent on adds to convince you and I that we are different and that we should fight each other. The truth is that people are complicated and almost never fall into one camp.
God help the powers that be if we ever started communicating outside of party sanctioned discourse. We might get along and work out a sensible compromise. So on the right the tea party is co-opted, watered down and steered back to the reservation. On the left ridiculous politicians try playing catch-up with the occupiers. I don't carry water for anyone, and brothers you don't have to either.

[les strat]

To me, it comes down to

a) do you want a big, socialist nanny-state government that likes to spend the country into oblivion and control/mediate every aspect of our lives, or




b) not.

[les strat]

I will be voting for Obama. I'm not really a zealot about it, but being liberal minded, he is the best choice i have.

I'm sorry.

Please explain how the liberal way of thinking helps people pull themselves out of poverty Also, please tell me how you think that increasing taxes (that are going directly to be spent by our fed givt) is going to help anything.

You choke out the upper middle class and rich, you kill jobs and force business overseas. The old adage "When's the last time a poor person gave you a job?" comes to mind. The ones paying taxes are surely not going to stimulate the ecomomy. It's bad when 50% of the citizens are suppoorting the other half. It encourages those who do to just give up and become another person on the govt teet. It's a poison way of politics. Make the poor needy and you got the vote.

They don't need more of our money. The just need less and to control their own moronic spending of our money and get used to pulling their belt a little tighter just like I have to do.

[jocko]

A teacher asked her 6th grade class how many of them were Obama fans.

Not really knowing what an Obama fan is, but wanting to be liked by the teacher, all the kids raised their hands except for Little Johnny.




The teacher asked Little Johnny why he has decided to be different..again.
Little Johnny said, "Because I'm not an Obama fan."

The teacher asked, "Why aren't you a fan of Obama?" Johnny said, "Because I'm a Republican."

The teacher asked him why he's a Republican. Little Johnny answered, "Well, my Mom's a Republican and my Dad's a Republican, so I'm a Republican."

Annoyed by this answer, the teacher asked, "If your mom was a moron and your dad was an idiot, what would that make you ?"

With a big smile, Little Johnny replied, "That would make me an Obama fan

[popgoestheweasel]

I'm sorry.

Please explain how the liberal way of thinking helps people pull themselves out of poverty Also, please tell me how you think that increasing taxes (that are going directly to be spent by our fed givt) is going to help anything.

You choke out the upper middle class and rich, you kill jobs and force business overseas. The old adage "When's the last time a poor person gave you a job?" comes to mind. The ones paying taxes are surely not going to stimulate the ecomomy. It's bad when 50% of the citizens are suppoorting the other half. It encourages those who do to just give up and become another person on the govt teet. It's a poison way of politics. Make the poor needy and you got the vote.

They don't need more of our money. The just need less and to control their own moronic spending of our money and get used to pulling their belt a little tighter just like I have to do.

Isn't there another adage...when is the last time a rich person had enough money? greed?

[crazymailman]

Isn't there another adage...when is the last time a rich person had enough money? greed?

When someone who isn't rich wants what the rich have earned, isn't that greed also?

[wyntrout]

Gotta love that little Johnny! Another good one!

Wynn:D

[popgoestheweasel]

When someone who isn't rich wants what the rich have earned, isn't that greed also?

I thought that was called "dreams" ???

[crazymailman]

I thought that was called "dreams" ???

Depends. If they want to earn that for themselves, then yes, it is a dream or goal. However, if someone hates the rich simply because they have more, that is greed.

[TriggerMan]

I like my CM9!

Sure, Bush dug us a deep hole with our economy, but Obama dug us a deeper hole by spending 3X more than Bush did. What Obama spent in his first year in office was only second in cost to what WWII cost this country. WWII cost a little more. That's a fact, look it up for yourself!

All of that Obama Care sounds and looks good on paper but report the whole story not just what the title says. Do you really want to give and pay for health care for all illeagal alliens in this country and give them all social security payments that we all had to pay into and save for our retirements which they never put one dime into?

I might not like our choices this voting year but I would never vote for Obama again!
JMOI hate to bring up one of those pesky little facts, but I must

You get Social Security based on the average of your best 35 years. You need to pay in a minimum number of working quarters AND have deposits by an Employer which you match. If self employed, you deposit all the required funding, which is about 15% of what you make. Then there's that little detail of having to apply for a Social Security number at the start of your working life.

The Affordable Care Act mandates everyone buy their own insurance or pay a penalty. Most health insurance in America is provided through Employer Group Plans. There are penalties for undocumented workers, and, of course, an expense to the employer if he enrolls them in his plan.

Think maybe you need to rework your assertion?

[popgoestheweasel]

I hate to bring up one of those pesky little facts, but I must

You get Social Security based on the average of your best 35 years. You need to pay in a minimum number of working quarters AND have deposits by an Employer which you match. If self employed, you deposit all the required funding, which is about 15% of what you make. Then there's that little detail of having to apply for a Social Security number at the start of your working life.

The Affordable Care Act mandates everyone buy their own insurance or pay a penalty. Most health insurance in America is provided through Employer Group Plans. There are penalties for undocumented workers, and, of course, an expense to the employer if he enrolls them in his plan.

Think maybe you need to rework your assertion?

When it comes to politics, since when do facts get in the way of the many who have their own agenda and tell good stories in this 'gun' forum?

[TriggerMan]

Some people should not be allowed to vote or reproduce. They clearly do NOT educate themselves politically, and get their political knowledge from the bumper sticker on the car in front of them. :mad: Look up Psalms 109.8

In his marvelous book, Reflections
on the Psalms, C.S. Lewis observed:

In some of the Psalms the spirit of hatred which strikes us in the face is like the heat from a furnace mouth. In
others the same spirit ceases to be frightful only by becoming (to a modern mind) almost comic in its naivety.
Examples can be found all over the Psalter, but perhaps the worst is in
109 (p. 20).

Lewis suspects that it may be best to leave such psalms
alone. But then he says that we
must face “facts squarely.”
The hatred is there–festering, gloating, undisguised–and also we should be wicked if we in any way condoned or approved it, or (worse still) used it to justify
similar passions in ourselves (p. 22).


Lewis refers to these psalms as horrible, devilish, cruel, hateful, and evil. He believes that Psalm 109–and the poetry of its kind in the psalter–should point us back to the evil we carry within and teach us each how to behave with goodness, humility, and love.

[tv_racin_fan]

I like pie too, but in the tradition of politics and forums we'll have to decide which is better, pie or cake?

Actually we have to do no such thing...it aint so hard to bake a pie into a cake after all, then one can have both at the same time.

In fact in the same vein as the turducken someone has explained how to fabricate a pie/cake using three different pies and three different cake batter recipes and there is not reason not to ice this awesome creation with three (or more) different icings.

[tilefish]

My biggest personal fear regarding another 4 years of Obama, is Obama having the opportunity to stack the Supreme Court. There are several justices that are getting up there in years...

[yqtszhj]

A teacher asked her 6th grade class how many of them were Obama fans.

Not really knowing what an Obama fan is, but wanting to be liked by the teacher, all the kids raised their hands except for Little Johnny.




The teacher asked Little Johnny why he has decided to be different..again.
Little Johnny said, "Because I'm not an Obama fan."

The teacher asked, "Why aren't you a fan of Obama?" Johnny said, "Because I'm a Republican."

The teacher asked him why he's a Republican. Little Johnny answered, "Well, my Mom's a Republican and my Dad's a Republican, so I'm a Republican."

Annoyed by this answer, the teacher asked, "If your mom was a moron and your dad was an idiot, what would that make you ?"

With a big smile, Little Johnny replied, "That would make me an Obama fan

That Johnny is a great kid. I bet Johnny's dad is on Kahrtalk.

[tv_racin_fan]

I hate to bring up one of those pesky little facts, but I must

You get Social Security based on the average of your best 35 years. You need to pay in a minimum number of working quarters AND have deposits by an Employer which you match. If self employed, you deposit all the required funding, which is about 15% of what you make. Then there's that little detail of having to apply for a Social Security number at the start of your working life.

The Affordable Care Act mandates everyone buy their own insurance or pay a penalty. Most health insurance in America is provided through Employer Group Plans. There are penalties for undocumented workers, and, of course, an expense to the employer if he enrolls them in his plan.

Think maybe you need to rework your assertion?

I hate to bring up these pesky facts but that aint quite the reality. In the first place go back thru history and see how things have changed vis a vis social security both on taxation side and disbursement side. What is true for today may or may not be the same tomorrow.

Second my wifes brother and sister got some form of social security disbursements without paying in a single penny.

Third that aint quite what The Affordable Healthcare Act stipulates. See a person below a certain income level ain't got to pay for his or her own healthcare insurance policy. And up to a certain income level one can or will recieve a subsidy for their healthcare insurance costs.

[TriggerMan]

I hate to bring up these pesky facts but that aint quite the reality. In the first place go back thru history and see how things have changed vis a vis social security both on taxation side and disbursement side. What is true for today may or may not be the same tomorrow. Hard to argue against speculation.

Second my wifes brother and sister got some form of social security disbursements without paying in a single penny. Either as children based on what a deceased parent put in, or a similar sounding welfare program called SSI (Supplemental Security Income) .. based on disability.

Third that aint quite what The Affordable Healthcare Act stipulates. See a person below a certain income level ain't got to pay for his or her own healthcare insurance policy. And up to a certain income level one can or will recieve a subsidy for their healthcare insurance costs. True enough but an Illegal without documents or a social security history has little chance.

responses in bold type above

[tv_racin_fan]

I would agree it is hard to argue against speculation.. however I was not speculating, it is historical fact that the level of taxation and disbursments have changed and will change in the not so distant future. Some politicians like to call SS an entitlement and then talk about means testing... uumm do their supporters not understand what they are saying here? Either one is entitled to all that one has paid in for or one can be means tested as to disbursement level but then means testing shows that one is not actually entitled to the funds one contracted for upon pay in. Can't have that cake and eat it too.

It was in fact as children based somewhat upon what a deceased parent paid in however they only got disbursements to cover school and such until they were no longer in school, not to account for the full amount the parent had paid in. My point being that they got payment without paying in.

Indeed an illegal wont be on some healthcare insurance plan without some fudging. Regardless they will still be able to get some healthcare at most hospitals.

[muggsy]

I used to believe that liberals were simply confused, not educated on the principles and issues, wealthy or otherwise distracted. I was partnered up at work with a serious liberal who is the nicest guy you could ever meet. He was active in the outdoors and drive one of those "Don't need no stinkin roads" safari type vehicles (Land Cruiser or ?).

Anyway, over time we got to know each other and we talked a little about politics but without arguments. One day at lunch I told him I was brought up conservative and never understood the mindset of liberals. I asked him to explain where they really come from, what they believe and how they got to where they are.

What he told me changed my opinion of some liberals. This man truly believes the liberal stuff. He tries to help the "less fortunate" to the extent he can and believes it is the modern role of government to provide and bring everybody out of poverty no matter what. He doesn't see that as a conflict with the constitution because we are a different country today than when it was written.

It was a really pleasant conversation and lights went on allowing me to look at it from their side. I still strongly disagree with them and remain a staunch conservative who wants government to go back to it's constitutional role, but now I don't believe they are all wackos and card carrying loonies. Well some exceptions apply like Michael Moore, and about 100 other opportunists.

The problem, Linc, is that you really don't help someone by giving to them unless they are incapable of helping themselves. You really help people by teaching people how to help themselves. Most liberals are guilt ridden enablers. I don't mind helping anyone who is willing to help themselves, but I refuse to help anyone who refuses to help themselves. The Jews have a saying, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

[hpg]

Ya just can't fix Stupid.....:eek:

[popgoestheweasel]

The problem, Linc, is that you really don't help someone by giving to them unless they are incapable of helping themselves. You really help people by teaching people how to help themselves. Most liberals are guilt ridden enablers. I don't mind helping anyone who is willing to help themselves, but I refuse to help anyone who refuses to help themselves. The Jews have a saying, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Set aside the 'guilt ridden enablers' statement, who could reasonably disagree with such a statement. There's also something called a good paying J O B that makes a HUGE difference in our lives. Some people just need to catch a break.

[jocko]

I would agree it is hard to argue against speculation.. however I was not speculating, it is historical fact that the level of taxation and disbursments have changed and will change in the not so distant future. Some politicians like to call SS an entitlement and then talk about means testing... uumm do their supporters not understand what they are saying here? Either one is entitled to all that one has paid in for or one can be means tested as to disbursement level but then means testing shows that one is not actually entitled to the funds one contracted for upon pay in. Can't have that cake and eat it too.

It was in fact as children based somewhat upon what a deceased parent paid in however they only got disbursements to cover school and such until they were no longer in school, not to account for the full amount the parent had paid in. My point being that they got payment without paying in.

Indeed an illegal wont be on some healthcare insurance plan without some fudging. Regardless they will still be able to get some healthcare at most hospitals.

beendiscussed by the left side that when people get into a certain income bracket they no longer shold get SS payments, which I think is dead wrong. Most people well off today did not hav e ap[ot to piss in when they started working years ago and paid into the SS program with the pledgte from our goverment that it would be there for them. Now to punish that successful person by telling him that allthose payjment he made into SS years ago when he basically had nadda is nw going to be held back as he DOESN'T NEED IT. That is jsut ot right. Mind u he doesn't need that money today but it is his, he paid into it when he HAD to . To much class war fare from this president.
there is a box they tellme at the bottom of everyone tax forms where u CAN GIVE MORE IF U FEEL LIKE IT. buffet should look at that box..

[tv_racin_fan]

beendiscussed by the left side that when people get into a certain income bracket they no longer shold get SS payments, which I think is dead wrong. Most people well off today did not hav e ap[ot to piss in when they started working years ago and paid into the SS program with the pledgte from our goverment that it would be there for them. Now to punish that successful person by telling him that allthose payjment he made into SS years ago when he basically had nadda is nw going to be held back as he DOESN'T NEED IT. That is jsut ot right. Mind u he doesn't need that money today but it is his, he paid into it when he HAD to . To much class war fare from this president.
there is a box they tellme at the bottom of everyone tax forms where u CAN GIVE MORE IF U FEEL LIKE IT. buffet should look at that box..

IF I earn enough that I shouldn't get the benefits then I am earning enough that I shouldn't have to pay in either. THAT however isn't how the govt works.

[bandrich]

I am 100% in favor of following Psalms 109.8

May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership

Save you the time to look it up. :rolleyes:

[Micha2u]

beendiscussed by the left side that when people get into a certain income bracket they no longer shold get SS payments, which I think is dead wrong. Most people well off today did not hav e ap[ot to piss in when they started working years ago and paid into the SS program with the pledgte from our goverment that it would be there for them. Now to punish that successful person by telling him that allthose payjment he made into SS years ago when he basically had nadda is nw going to be held back as he DOESN'T NEED IT. That is jsut ot right. Mind u he doesn't need that money today but it is his, he paid into it when he HAD to . To much class war fare from this president.
there is a box they tellme at the bottom of everyone tax forms where u CAN GIVE MORE IF U FEEL LIKE IT. buffet should look at that box..

I agree completely!!! Well stated!!!

[wyntrout]

The Clintons began... retroactively back to the first of the year... taxing up to 85% of Social Security based on income. That's a kind of means testing. I say the Clintons because she and her think tanks were looking for ways to take more money from the People... even considering a "one-time" 15% tax, or whatever they called it... surcharge, I believe, on ALL pension funds... "one-time", indeed. More likely they wouldn't have been content with that and having set a precedent!
Anyhow, they take back 25% of my Social Security now, well, 25% of 85%, anyhow. I won't have enough wealth for them take anything when I die, but watch for taking it all earlier if Obama is re-elected... though he'll probably manage to make it president for life before a second term is over.

Wynn:(

[wyntrout]

Oh, then there was the imputed income scheme where they wanted to figure how much your house would rent for, subtract the mortgage payment, and charge taxes on the difference... your imputed income! Schemes were a'flying in the Democrat's Think Tank.

Don't think that they didn't keep some of those options for a "rainy day".

Wynn:)

[les strat]

Isn't there another adage...when is the last time a rich person had enough money? greed?

Now what kind of sense does that make? If a man/woman works hard and makes money, then there should be no limit. To think that they owe people who don't have (and that would include me) is mind boggling/ Should he give to those not as fortunate? Of course if he chooses! Should he be forced to? No way!

[wyntrout]

Read The Law:

http://mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf

Free download and short essay.

It's all about what a government is SUPPOSED to do... and what it becomes. Bestiat really gets into "Legalized Plunder"... how the politicians legalize the taking of other people's money to feather their own beds, build their own little empires, and use the money to buy people's votes... by promising them a share of the "plunder"... more stuff!

Wynn:)

[Tinman507]

Ybk1v-pkUbo

[Wayne Nelson]

SHOCKING ABC News on Obama/USA Infrastructure

Diane Sawyer reporting on U.S. bridge projects going to the Chinese... NOT Americans.

The bridges are right here in the U.S. and yet Obama has approved for Chinese contractors to come
in and do the work. What about jobs for Americans???

Watch this video. It doesn't take long to view.

This one should be tough for the supporters of the current regime to swallow....AND it comes from ABC NEWS...no Snopes or Wikileaks on this one!!

U.S.A. Bridges and Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms
Shocking to say the least! This video is a jaw-dropper that will make you sick. (It was also shocking that ABC was actually reporting this story.)

The lead-in with Obama promising jobs in the U.S. by improving our infrastructure is so typical of all his promises!

Our tax dollars are at work - for CHINA !!!

I pray all the unemployed see this and cast their votes accordingly in 2012!

Click here: U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/us-bridges-roads-built-chinese-firms-14594513?tab=9482930?ion=1206853&playlist=14594944)

[JFootin]

The man needs to be put on trial! He took an oath to uphold the Constitution and the government. Yet he is openly, blatantly doing everything he can to hasten it's demise! Is that not treason? Isn't treason a hanging offense?

Barack Obama is the most dangerous enemy this nation has ever had! Sly as the Devil himself! Charming to the mentally soft! A Pied Piper to the sheeple!

Moral corruption and ungodliness has been rotting this nation from the inside out for quite a while. Now, the Devil has raised up a man in his own image and likeness to finish the job and totally destroy it! People are damning themselves and their nation to Hell if they vote for him again!

http://danoftheday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/alien-bursting-from-stomach.jpg

Whew! Just had to get that out! :target:

JMO. YMMV. :behindsofa:

[Wayne Nelson]

I'm affraid to say this but I think that he is going to be re-elected. He has tooooo many people that are depending on his free Government handouts and they wouldn't want to loose that. I remember when he was first running for Presidency and people were at the poles making their votes. People on the news were saying that they were voting for him because thay thought that he would be making their home payments and buying their groceries. That is what we all call Wellfare.

[tv_racin_fan]

I'd be willing to bet a steak dinner that he WILL be re elected.

Look at who is running against him.

[Wayne Nelson]

How do you like your steak done??????

[muggsy]

Well there you go...Looks like 4 more crappy years of Obummer...Theres just to many idiots out there that vote and don't have a clue...

I want to know where those 2.6 million private sector jobs are that the anointed one created because both my son and daughter along with thousands of unemployed folks would love to have one....

Free Kool Aid for all...Makes me want to :puke:

My son couldn't find a good paying job so he started his own business and never looked back. That's called becoming an entrepreneur. :)

[muggsy]

I will be voting for Obama. I'm not really a zealot about it, but being liberal minded, he is the best choice i have.

I think I may be sick. :crazy:

[tv_racin_fan]

How do you like your steak done??????

HA!

I'd grind the thing up and feed it to my dog raw if it would help find someone who has a flippin clue to run for president.

But seriously I like em medium rare to medium.

[MuchoUno]

If you vote for a politician with the motivation or understanding that they intend to legislate money out of one person's pocket in order to distribute it to another outside of the constraints of our Constitution, then you are an accessory to theft.

[Wayne Nelson]

I hate to bring up one of those pesky little facts, but I must

You get Social Security based on the average of your best 35 years. You need to pay in a minimum number of working quarters AND have deposits by an Employer which you match. If self employed, you deposit all the required funding, which is about 15% of what you make. Then there's that little detail of having to apply for a Social Security number at the start of your working life.

The Affordable Care Act mandates everyone buy their own insurance or pay a penalty. Most health insurance in America is provided through Employer Group Plans. There are penalties for undocumented workers, and, of course, an expense to the employer if he enrolls them in his plan.

Think maybe you need to rework your assertion?


I was at the Social Security Office last month to file for SS. When I walked in the room, there were about 50-60 people in there to also do the same. Out of the 50-60m people, only 4 (not including myself) were of retirement age, the rest were ALL 25-45 YEAR OLD IMMIGRANTS!!! Where in the hell do you think they are getting the money from to pay these people who have probably never even worked here in the USA????

Today I went to a gun show and had to stand in a long line waiting to get in. The 2 guys behind me were also taliking about the same exact thing when they went to sign up for SS. I had to pipe in and tell them of my same exact experience.

[TriggerMan]

I was at the Social Security Office last month to file for SS. When I walked in the room, there were about 50-60 people in there to also do the same. Out of the 50-60m people, only 4 (not including myself) were of retirement age, the rest were ALL 25-45 YEAR OLD IMMIGRANTS!!! Where in the hell do you think they are getting the money from to pay these people who have probably never even worked here in the USA????

Today I went to a gun show and had to stand in a long line waiting to get in. The 2 guys behind me were also taliking about the same exact thing when they went to sign up for SS. I had to pipe in and tell them of my same exact experience.

Calm down Wayne,

First, without sufficient work credits, you CANNOT get Social Security. If you are eligible, they average your best 35 years of paying into the system. You need a U.S. Birth Certificate or your Naturalization papers.

Lots of eligible US Citizens, who paid in, do not have English as their first language. What you likely saw was a child or other family member who is second generation American and fluent in our language.

The local SSA offices also handle applications for SSI (Supplemental Securty Income). This is a welfare program. It pays a single person $698 per month. Some States have agreed to add to that. In Michigan, the grants are $741. To get the full amount, you cannot have ANY INCOME. Zero, nada, zip. You also cannot have over $1,000 in assets. Your burial plot is exempt, a car needed to get to a doctor is exempt, but that's pretty much it. You must be PERMANENTLY DISABLED to qualify.

I get my first Social Security Retirement check in late August for my July 1 effective date.

P.S. You have no way to know why anyone is at the SSA Office. You have no way to know who is an immigrant. There are dozen's of reasons to be there and several programs a dependent or worker could be eligible. Would it surprise you that voluteers from AARP or The Area Council for the Aging or my Church have youthful bi-lingual volunteers?

[Wayne Nelson]

The room that we all have to go to file for SS is on a specific floor and room. The Welfare Program (Assistance) is in a different room and that area was full as well with people signing up. I couldn't go to the Welfare room to sign up for SS nor can the Welfare (Assistance) people go to the SS Dept. to sign up for Welfare or some assistance. Some people came in the SS room where I was waiting in and after talking to one of the people behind the counter, they were directed down to the Welfare Dept. (Assistance) The room that I was in was for signing up for SS only. Everyone in there had to be filing for SS, not Welfare or Assistance. If you weren't filing for SS you had to leave and go to a different room!

[TriggerMan]

The room that we all have to go to file for SS is on a specific floor and room. The Welfare Program (Assistance) is in a different room and that area was full as well with people signing up. I couldn't go to the Welfare room to sign up for SS nor can the Welfare (Assistance) people go to the SS Dept. to sign up for Welfare or some assistance. Some people came in the SS room where I was waiting in and after talking to one of the people behind the counter, they were directed down to the Welfare Dept. (Assistance) The room that I was in was for signing up for SS only. Everyone in there had to be filing for SS, not Welfare or Assistance. If you weren't filing for SS you had to leave and go to a different room!
That "welfare room" is for other State or County administered programs. It is also where one applies for Food Stamps.

SSA ( Social Security Administration) does handle ONE welfare program, it is SSI (Supplemental Security Income). You can read all about it, the rules, the eligibility and the grant amounts I posted previously.

The people running the bigger welfare area are NOT Federal Employees, i.e., not employed by SSA. Welfare workers will refer people to SSA if they come in to apply as a disabled Single or an indigent Aged 65+. These folks are denied welfare assistance becuase most welfare falls under programs requiring minor children.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/11000.html

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/abbrev/afdc-tanf.htm

[Wayne Nelson]

Just in case some of you young whippersnappers (& some older ones) didn't know this. It's easy to check out, if you don't believe it. Be sure and show it to your family and friends. They need a little history lesson on what's what and it doesn't matter whether you are Democrat or Republican. Facts are Facts.

Social Security Cards up until the 1980s expressly stated the number and card were not to be used for identification purposes. Since nearly everyone in the United States now has a number, it became convenient to use it anyway and the message, NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION, was removed.


Our Social Security




Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be Completely voluntary,

No longer Voluntary


2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual Incomes into the Program,

Now 7.65%
on the first $90,000


3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

No longer tax deductible


4.) That the money the participants put into the independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the general operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other
Government program, and,

Under Johnson the money was moved to The General Fund and Spent


5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

Under Clinton & Gore Up to 85% of your Social Security can be Taxed

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to 'put
away' -- you may be interested in the following:

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent 'Trust Fund' and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically controlled House and Senate.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the 'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

AND MY FAVORITE:

A: That's right!

Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!

------------ -- ------------ --------- ----- ------------ --------- ---------

Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

[JustinN]

Social Security and guns don't have a direct connection. Locked.