Off Leash Dogs

[ptoemmes]

What is your opinion of the best non lethal way to deal with off leash dogs?

Let me explain. I walk my two German Shepherds on leash in a typical suburban neighborhood. The city has a leash law. To tell you the truth, personally, I am all for well trained/managed off leash dogs. Mine are not and probably never will be.

A few moths ago, my wife and I were walking the GSDs and an off leash dog amidst his human family bolted out of their yard, across the street, and engaged my male GSD. Ended up begin no contest, but I did suffer a bite even though I knew enough to stay out of the middle of it. Stuff happens in a dog fight. Fortunately the off leash was up date on shots so all I needed was antibiotics (they do not stitch dog bites) and all ended well for all - human and dogs. Off leash dog family got cited cause you cannot get treated for a dog bite down here without reporting it.

Anyway...off leash (back yard escape) happens more that it should and normally I can avoid a situation. I do carry while walking but I have no desire to kill an attacking stray much less risk a 45ACP (P45) ricochet.

I figure a loud bang from a small revolver - maybe with a rat/snake shot load - carried along with the P45 might work.

Also toying with an S&W Governor with bird shot 410 loads for same. Figure that may be fun to shoot as well. I am aware of the Judge/Governor 410 shot shell HD debate and do not wish to poke that sleeping dog if you will.

But I thought I'd ask first.

Thanks,

Pete

[Tinman507]

how about mace or another aerosol defense system?
We carry the Kimber Pepper Blaster (http://www.pepperblaster.com/)

[LaP]

My wife uses a canister of FOX pepper spray. It has a rating of 5.1 million scoville units (approx twice the strength of most spays)

If you get in close and spray that stuff right into thier muzzle and mouth, it ought to make them reevaluate their current activities.
My wife has used it once in the past few years. She sprayed an attacking dog at about ten feet and it took off in full gallup.

[Popeye]

That pepper blaster looks like the real deal. Not only will it protect you and your dog, but it might just teach the attacking dog that it's not a good idea to go after other animals.

[ptoemmes]

I like the range and timing on that pepper blaster.

Thanks,

Pete

[dkmatthews]

What about wasp/hornet spray? It should have a longer range and be less likely to blow back in your face (or the face of your own dogs).

[joshh]

pepper spray makes more sense. a dog would have to be biting the hell out of me or posing a serious threat to the well being of a child for me to shoot it. i love dogs and a swift, well placed kick will usually stop them without shooting them. not to mention shooting something that close to you and in a suburban setting. i carry with a defensive round for real threats of life. not for a dog.

[Tinman507]

The Pepper Blaster is a gel that's propelled out of the device. No blowback.
Not sure about the toxicity of wasp & hornet spray.
I wouldn't want to hurt the poor lil pup, just re-educate.

[dkmatthews]

The Pepper Blaster is a gel that's propelled out of the device. No blowback.
Not sure about the toxicity of wasp & hornet spray.
I wouldn't want to hurt the poor lil pup, just re-educate.

Good to know, Tinman!

[les strat]

Two words: Cattle prodder

[wyntrout]

You're getting closer. When I last had a dog... almost 8 years ago... I carried a stun gun in addition to my CCW when we walked. Florida's permit is for weapons... knives, billy clubs or blackjacks, stun guns... any legal weapon.

The discharge from a stun gun... the noise... is enough to keep most dogs at bay. I only used mine a few times and the noise and light kept a large dog away. I never had to actually shock the dog, but I was ready. You have to pay attention to the length of discharge as it can ruin some devices with too long a discharge without contact.

I wanted a choice... something besides lethal force to stop someone's pet from being injured. I figured it might work better against a pit bull, too. Then there are racoons and other small wild animals as well.

You can buy stun guns at gun shows for $10 to $15, and some have small built in lights and are rechargeable. The last one I bought is 1.5 million volts and has a lanyard that you have around your wrist. If the stun gun is grabbed from you and the lanyard pulls off, the SG is deactivated. I paid $15 to $20 for that.

It's troubling, the ease with which you can get these things. Even small punk kids can take you to the ground and hurt you with those things. I think that if you're armed and someone attacks you with a stun gun, you had best stop them before they disable you and do whatever they want to you... including taking your pistol and using it on YOU! They can totally OWN YOU with a stun gun!:eek:


Wynn:)

[jocko]

I carry always when I walk outside as it is a 4 mile through the cuntry walk . Never had one incident "yet', but no stun gun for any dog that takes a bite out of me. He will get one bite and then he is bought and paid for. Sorry I love dogs owned them all my life, when properly taken care of by an owner they are never an issue.

A pitbull that chews on some helpless older person or a young child is also someone's pet

[Bawanna]

"It's troubling, the ease with which you can get these things. Even small punk kids can take you to the ground and hurt you with those things. I think that if you're armed and someone attacks you with a stun gun, you had best stop them before they disable you and do whatever they want to you... including taking your pistol and using it on YOU! They can totally OWN YOU with a stun gun!"

Part of the Taser training at our dept involves getting tased so you know what your dishing out and what you'll get if the BG gets your taser. Not allowed to carry one till you been tased. It provides a good foundation if you have to shoot someone because they have a taser.

We do the same thing with Pepper Spray. Either will incapacitate you so that your life is in real danger.

I did the pepper spray thing (sucked really bad). Haven't done the taser, I hate electricity and I wouldn't be allowed to carry one anyway.

[jocko]

agree, great one, ur on the money wth those comments. never been tased, I have tried pepper spray and stupidily forgetting and the damn wind blowing it right back inmy face. It is not good, we went theour that tear gas spray drill in boot camp. It wast errible but it indeed gaveu a snese of what it can and will do.

[wyntrout]

I know it's not the same, but I've shocked myself... short burst through clothing and my daughter let me zap her butt. But it's totally different than a real burst to the trunk of the body. A sustained burst will take you down and worse. I did the short burst with a 25 or 50Kvolt model... my first, but I ain't messing with the 1.5 million volt model I purchased last. I lost the weaker one for a year or so... thought I put it someplace for easy access. I hadn't used my bike in a LOOONG time and it's stored upstairs in a spare bedroom... and now the attic. I finally noticed the stun gun in a holster on the bike!:rolleyes: It's good for repelling dogs that like to chase bikes, too.

Wynn:)

[Bronco302]

Pepper spray, walking sticks, .22 revolver what ever you can carry in your area. Cold Steel has some good options. If the neighbors can't keep Fido in their yard I'd be calling in every time it got out. People that can't keep their critters at home do not need them.


Joe W.

[knkali]

I carry pepper spray for non lethal option. If a dog is coming at me, I will spray it. If it gets to me and bites me, I will shoot it. That simple. And I will sue the owners for assult with a lethal weapon, medical bills, and my attorney's fees. ALL people should have controll of their animals at all times. If you let your dog run around in the backyard without a leash, fine. If it gets out of the yard, you are responsible. I cannot believe the tolerance toward dogs here on this board. I love animals too but with them comes responsibility. The sight of a German Shep running at you full speed with teeth exposed and growling/salivating will make you soil your pants. Of course I am talking about big powerful animals that can kill and mame. A little pug or weiner dog isnt going to worry me but they should still be controlled. My 2 cents.

[Tinman507]

I don't think it's tolerance toward dogs per se. I think it's a staged approach.
If the pepper shot doesn't work then it's time to take the real shot.

Yeah, there's a lot of bad dogs out there. But it's bad owners who allow them to run wild. I would rather hit a dog in the face with a shot of pepper but I'll kill it if I have to, no problem at all.

[Bawanna]

I've had far more issues with Weiner Dogs than German Shepards. Seem to be high strung little biting machines those weiner dogs.

Just like kids, bad dogs come from bad owners.

[ptoemmes]

Comments are all very helpful.

In the incident I originally described I was not carrying that time.

The off leash dog - mid sized maybe 50 pound Heinz 57 dog - probably covered maybe 30-40 yards in way less time that a pro football linebacker.

It's a complicating factor if you have your dog on leash and if that dog is a 90 pound male GSD getting ready to defend the rush. And I often walk both of our GSDs (they are rescues BTW) on separate leashes so in that case add another 60 pound female GSD getting riled up.

Get the pepper blaster out - fire 1X maybe 2X - and if that does not work then draw the pistol and... By that time you are probably in close quarters with your dogs engaged, too. It is what it is - you prep the best you can. I ain't sitting home in fear ;-)

Both of my GSDs - male especially - will alert at just about anything: squirrel, dog, cat, jogger, meter reader, hopefully BG, etc so I have gotten more in tune with their behavior.

Pete

PS
Talk about a snarling GSD coming at ya full tilt. Many years ago when I still jogged - new in the neighborhood...just started a jog and for no good reason looked over my shoulder to see the biggest freaking Great Dane lumbering toward me with owner in hot pursuit. As it turned out she - the Great Dane - just wanted to jog and ended up playing with me until the owner arrived.

[wyntrout]

Did your pants have a more "interesting" smell to the dog after your initial reaction?

Wynn:)

[Tinman507]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1011/farts-never-trust-farts-demotivational-poster-1289486505.jpg

[knkali]

I think if I saw a Great Dane coming after me, I would go straight for my .40. That is a very big dog and could easily kill me.

[jocko]

thats a good one tinman, I knew something was comingout of that brillian sickmind of urs.

[muggsy]

My wife used to carry a CO2 powered air horn when she jogged. Dogs have very sensitive ears. One loud blast usually sent the dog running in the other direction.

[hss.strat]

There's a bunch of different pepper sprays to choose from. Don't bother with the stuff at walmart, see if you can find a local LEO supplier. Also check with your local laws, in some places pepper spray over a certain concentration can be considered a prohibited weapon.

If you get stream, splatter/stream, gel or foam you shouldn't have to worry too much about blow back. The keychain stuff at walmart is usually a cone spray which can easily blow in the wind. You'd have to be spraying directly into the wind on a very windy day to get blow back from a decent stream. Since it's for a dog I'd go with stream. Gel and foam are going to get stuck in their fur and may diminish effectiveness of the spray. The "spray guns" are cool, but I am skeptical about their usefulness in outdoor applications from anything but close range.

Defense Tech, Fox Labs, Sabre Red are all good reliable names.

[jocko]

I have never seen a 9mm blow in the wind at 5 yards!!! Just sayin

[TriggerMan]

I carry pepper spray for non lethal option. If a dog is coming at me, I will spray it. If it gets to me and bites me, I will shoot it. That simple. And I will sue the owners for assult with a lethal weapon, medical bills, and my attorney's fees. ALL people should have controll of their animals at all times. If you let your dog run around in the backyard without a leash, fine. If it gets out of the yard, you are responsible. I cannot believe the tolerance toward dogs here on this board. I love animals too but with them comes responsibility. The sight of a German Shep running at you full speed with teeth exposed and growling/salivating will make you soil your pants. Of course I am talking about big powerful animals that can kill and mame. A little pug or weiner dog isnt going to worry me but they should still be controlled. My 2 cents.I completely agree. Spray if you can, don't hesitate to shoot.

[Scoundrel]

PS
Talk about a snarling GSD coming at ya full tilt. Many years ago when I still jogged - new in the neighborhood...just started a jog and for no good reason looked over my shoulder to see the biggest freaking Great Dane lumbering toward me with owner in hot pursuit. As it turned out she - the Great Dane - just wanted to jog and ended up playing with me until the owner arrived.



I think if I saw a Great Dane coming after me, I would go straight for my .40. That is a very big dog and could easily kill me.


Great Danes are usually pretty mild-mannered (but very energetic) dogs, and also very drooly (even when they're not rabid). If I saw a Shepherd or a Pit coming at me, I'd probably go straight for the gun, THEN try to determine its intentions. But if I saw a Dane, I'd probably pause for a moment to try and get a better idea of its intentions before drawing the gun.

But that's just me. I'd rather take a bite on the arm/leg than kill someone's overgrown puppy that just wanted to play.

[MW surveyor]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1011/farts-never-trust-farts-demotivational-poster-1289486505.jpg

Does anyone wonder where tinman keeps coming up with these things?

Tinman - your google fu is mighty!

[Tinman507]

http://www.agent-x.com.au/wp-content/webcomic/comic/Google-fu-master-f3a33ad.jpg

[MW surveyor]

****SIGH!**** Knew that you would have a comeback!

[Tinman507]

Sorry. I suffer from terminal smart-a$$.
It gets me in trouble and has for decades.

[MW surveyor]

No problem.
Just like the majority on here. It's a wonder how some of use made it this far.

[Tinman507]

Fortunately I've learned when to keep my mouth shut or I'd still be in first grade and sitting on the convent steps after school.

[jlottmc]

Part of the Taser training at our dept involves getting tased so you know what your dishing out and what you'll get if the BG gets your taser. Not allowed to carry one till you been tased. It provides a good foundation if you have to shoot someone because they have a taser.

We do the same thing with Pepper Spray. Either will incapacitate you so that your life is in real danger.

I did the pepper spray thing (sucked really bad). Haven't done the taser, I hate electricity and I wouldn't be allowed to carry one anyway.

Yes they do suck something awful. Funny thing about the pepper spray, is how department will qualify people with it, some don't expose you any more, some squirt a little on a q-tip and dab under the eyes with it, then there's what we did. Saber Red is actually very orange. Our faces looked like a can of Kraylon exploded on them. I have pictures, but won't post them. I had forgotten how much that sucks, I do remember the taser though. Shame the military training doesn't transfer and vice versa. Guess that means I get another ride.

[knkali]

Yes they do suck something awful. Funny thing about the pepper spray, is how department will qualify people with it, some don't expose you any more, some squirt a little on a q-tip and dab under the eyes with it, then there's what we did. Saber Red is actually very orange. Our faces looked like a can of Kraylon exploded on them. I have pictures, but won't post them. I had forgotten how much that sucks, I do remember the taser though. Shame the military training doesn't transfer and vice versa. Guess that means I get another ride.

I never understood the mentality of having to be tased or sprayed to see what it is like. If you carry a .40 should you be shot too? I know that the last comment was a smart *** one but you get what I mean.

[jlottmc]

The difference comes with the .40 being expected to cause death or serious bodily injury, and the other two are not expected to do so. Part of the reasoning also is that the trainers are showing that you can continue to fight, and function, albeit at a reduced capability. Let me ask this, if a suspect is talking to a police officer and the suspect has a can of OC spray, is the officer justified in using deadly force (shooting) against the suspect? It has to do with levels of force and since OC is actually lower on the scale than punches and joint locks why wouldn't an agency expose their officers to the effects? Remember that everyone in that area will get some burny skin eyes etc. regardless of how well OC is applied?

[Bawanna]

I never understood the mentality of having to be tased or sprayed to see what it is like. If you carry a .40 should you be shot too? I know that the last comment was a smart *** one but you get what I mean.

It's mostly to prove to each officer exactly how incapacitated they will be if they are pepper sprayed or tazed. Kind of sends a message that if your facing a bad guy with a tazer or pepper spray shoot him or he will take your gun and shoot you.

I have a video someplace of one day or our pepper spray class.

We all got it direct to the eyes from about 2 ft away. It weren't no q tip under the eyes, this stuff was blasted into our face full on. I goofed before my turn and was down wind and got almost as much effect as the spray. Then you had to do a series of stuff, fight with the red man, shoot a simunition target, find some keys on the hood, unlock the door of a patrol car, get in and use the radio.
They let my oldest son do it too, he did better than anyone, his only issue was he'd never unlocked a car door before.

[knkali]

OK now I got it. I made a statement and was educated why my attitiude was incorrect. Thanks for the edification. And thank you for not roasting me in the process.

To answer the question if a BGT has pep spray should the cop shoot him? Amswer: In my world if the LEO commands the BG to drop it and he does not--yes the LEO can use lethal force. I also feel that a LEO can use lethal force if you take a swing at them too. Funny when I was growing up, you always followed instruction a LEO gave and you never had the right to touch them much less swing at them or spray them with pep spray. If you have a problem with a LEO, do what you are told to do then tell it to the judge. It used to be, according to vet cops I interact with, when a LEO rolled up on a scene everyone froze. Now everyone runs for their weapons.

[TheTman]

If you did carry a shotshell revolver and fired it into the ground to scare the dog away, would you get arrested like that feller in New Hampshire or wherever it was?

[Scoundrel]

If you did carry a shotshell revolver and fired it into the ground to scare the dog away, would you get arrested like that feller in New Hampshire or wherever it was?

Probably. The dog owner would probably be the one to call it in as well. Frighten their charging dog instead of killing it, and they would respond by putting your ass in jail.

[Tinman507]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1104/or-a-tree-ethical-dog-bite-demotivational-posters-1303437334.jpg

[Bawanna]

OK now I got it. I made a statement and was educated why my attitiude was incorrect. Thanks for the edification. And thank you for not roasting me in the process.

To answer the question if a BGT has pep spray should the cop shoot him? Amswer: In my world if the LEO commands the BG to drop it and he does not--yes the LEO can use lethal force. I also feel that a LEO can use lethal force if you take a swing at them too. Funny when I was growing up, you always followed instruction a LEO gave and you never had the right to touch them much less swing at them or spray them with pep spray. If you have a problem with a LEO, do what you are told to do then tell it to the judge. It used to be, according to vet cops I interact with, when a LEO rolled up on a scene everyone froze. Now everyone runs for their weapons.

We got a bingo right here. We've created a generation with little to no respect for a badge or a uniform. Cop so much as looks at somebody and they scream your violating their civil rights. Everythings a test.
I get sick to my stomach with the Open Carriers saying they need to educate the cops.
It will only get worse.

Law Enforcement- one of the few jobs where you can do everything right and still get fired and your career ended on the whims of others. Make no mistake, there are some cops who really shouldn't be but by and large they walk around with a huge target on their back and put up with a truck load of crap every single day that just would not have flown even 15 years ago.

[wyntrout]

Shot shells are not good for self defense. They are ineffectual at any kind of range except very close and if you're firing a semi-auto, it will usually not eject and may jam your gun. Discharging your firearm is illegal most often unless your using it to stop a life or death attack, which, obviously you weren't doing because you shot your gun at the f'ing GROUND, possibly jamming it and preventing it from really being of use!:eek:

There are a lot of tests and discussion of shot shells online and YouTube, of the "potency", or lack thereof. These "shot shells" are not to be confused with shotgun shells, as those used in "Judges", etc. Those are much more powerful, though range can be diminished by the rifling as it spins and spreads the shot or projectiles.

NOT JMHO, but that of people who know stuff, too.

"Shot shells" are for shooting snakes and other "varmints"... SMALL ones... out to about 7 feet!

Wynn:)

[Tinman507]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1011/mana-a-mano-rambo-dog-mailman-next-post-my-100th-demotivational-poster-1290609505.jpg

[Bawanna]

That's great! My mother carried the mail for 30 years. In fact my first encounter with spray was dog spray. They demo'd it at the Post office and the guy sprayed it on salad and then ate it. One day riding in the car I saw it in her purse so I thought I'd spray a tiny bit in my hand and see what it was like. Forgot that the stuff sprays 30 ft and it richocheted into my face. Talk about a burn that lasted and lasted.

She found and my current UPS driver confirms a better tactic is dog biscuits. He's usually delivering on our road as I'm heading home and I've seen him surrounded numerous times. I always slow or stop to make sure he's got the situation in hand. He told me its like feeding bears though, you make darn sure you got the biscuits before you head out every day and don't leave the truck without a handful in your pocket.

[OldLincoln]

A Gift for the Wife

The Pocket Tazer Stun Gun, a great gift for the wife. A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Tazer for their anniversary submitted this:

Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest.

The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket/purse-sized tazer.

The effects of the Tazer were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety....??

WAY TOO COOL! Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home.

I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button and pressed it against a metal surface at the same time, I'd get the blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between the prongs.

AWESOME!!!

Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave.

Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two AAA batteries, right?

There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul)while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target.

I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and then thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat. But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong?

So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and Tazer in another.

The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; and a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water. Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.

All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5" long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference (loaded with two itsy, bitsy AAA batteries); pretty cute really, and thinking to myself, 'no possible way!'

What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best...

I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side so as to say, 'Don't do it stupid,' reasoning that a one second burst from such a tiny li’l ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and ...

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD .. . WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION . . . WHAT THE....!!!

I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs!

The cat was making meowing sounds I had never heard before, clinging to a picture frame hanging above the fireplace, obviously in an attempt to avoid getting slammed by my body flopping all over the living room.

Note: If you ever feel compelled to 'mug' yourself with a Tazer, one note of caution: there is NO such thing as a one second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor! A three second burst would be considered conservative!

A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape.

My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. The recliner was upside down and about 8 feet or so from where it originally was. My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching. My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs. I had no control over the drooling.

Apparently I had crapped in my shorts, but was too numb to know for sure, and my sense of smell was gone. I saw a faint smoke cloud above my head, which I believe came from my hair. I'm still looking for my testicles and I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!

P.S... My wife can't stop laughing about my experience, loved the gift and now regularly threatens me with it!

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!

ONLY A MAN WOULD ATTEMPT THIS!

[knkali]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1011/mana-a-mano-rambo-dog-mailman-next-post-my-100th-demotivational-poster-1290609505.jpg

Perfect!

[AIRret]

When we travel to an area that does not allow pepper spray (ie Canada) we carry a squirt gun loaded with a mixture of rubbing alcohol, water and somtimes bleach.
We have only used it once and it was very effective.

[Tinman507]

Old Lincoln....

Thanks to you I now need to go home and get dry pants on...OMG that is too funny!!!

[knkali]

A Gift for the Wife

The Pocket Tazer Stun Gun, a great gift for the wife. A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Tazer for their anniversary submitted this:

Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest.

The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket/purse-sized tazer.

The effects of the Tazer were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety....??

WAY TOO COOL! Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home.

I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button and pressed it against a metal surface at the same time, I'd get the blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between the prongs.

AWESOME!!!

Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave.

Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two AAA batteries, right?

There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul)while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target.

I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and then thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat. But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong?

So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and Tazer in another.

The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; and a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water. Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.

All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5" long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference (loaded with two itsy, bitsy AAA batteries); pretty cute really, and thinking to myself, 'no possible way!'

What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best...

I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side so as to say, 'Don't do it stupid,' reasoning that a one second burst from such a tiny li’l ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and ...

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD .. . WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION . . . WHAT THE....!!!

I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs!

The cat was making meowing sounds I had never heard before, clinging to a picture frame hanging above the fireplace, obviously in an attempt to avoid getting slammed by my body flopping all over the living room.

Note: If you ever feel compelled to 'mug' yourself with a Tazer, one note of caution: there is NO such thing as a one second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor! A three second burst would be considered conservative!

A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape.

My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. The recliner was upside down and about 8 feet or so from where it originally was. My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching. My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs. I had no control over the drooling.

Apparently I had crapped in my shorts, but was too numb to know for sure, and my sense of smell was gone. I saw a faint smoke cloud above my head, which I believe came from my hair. I'm still looking for my testicles and I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!

P.S... My wife can't stop laughing about my experience, loved the gift and now regularly threatens me with it!

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!

ONLY A MAN WOULD ATTEMPT THIS!

Glad you are OK. With that said, your post was off the chart funny. OMG.

[JFootin]

Old Lincoln....

Thanks to you I now need to go home and get dry pants on...OMG that is too funny!!!

OldBuddy, I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing! Tears are rolling out of my eyes! I'm glad, hopefully, that you will recover with no ill effects and that you will find your equipment. Actually, I am glad to know that, yes, those things can really work! I'll bet it really gives your wife confidence about it being an effective SD tool.

But, man, you win the prize for the funniest dang story we have seen around here in a LONG time, if ever!

[jlottmc]

That never gets old. To answer the question I asked, Yes an officer would be justified in shooting someone with a can of OC. Here's why: no person in their right mind would spray a uniformed officer and run. They have more on their minds than reducing the officers combat effectiveness by about half, then running. Bawanna, we had to run about 50 yards, do a series of PT (most of you won't know what a burpee is) then run back toward where we just came from, recite probable cause while doing some pushups, then get up have a field vision test (read a plate, or count the directors fingers etc.) do some other PT, come around a shed corner and find a suspect, do some sit ups, then recite the 4'th amendment, handcuff and un-cuff our partner including double locking. Then we could go wash the orange off. Oh how much fun we had.

[wyntrout]

Dang, I almost posted it AGAIN, because it seemed appropriate... still funny. No one appreciated the cat carrier, either, when I posted that, nor the "Butt out" orange thingy for deer.

Wynn:D

[Tinman507]

Where's the cat carrier and the deer butt thingie?

[wyntrout]

BUTT OUT!

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=Butt+out&x=0&y=0&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_229901_999_01?rgn=0,0,1464,525&scl=4.7727272727272725&fmt=jpeg&id=0vjbcI79TrvpnURAiEnhCw

NOT a SEX TOY!

I'll bet there's an extensive WARNING with this... one can only imagine!

Wynn:)

[Tinman507]

I could use that at work. An A$$ hole removal tool.

[wyntrout]

They could make a heavier duty model with a sturdy "eyelet" for tying a rope and hoisting! Or, dragging behind your vehicle!

Wynn:D

[hpg]

Pepper Spray or Mace works really well.....Get the one that Saber makes for BEARS...

[TucsonMTB]

Pepper Spray or Mace works really well.....Get the one that Saber makes for BEARS...
Is that the stuff that contains small bells for use in Grizzly territory? http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/icon_lol.gif

[wyntrout]

No, that's the seasoning the Grizzlies like. The bells are to attract the bears.



Wynn:D

[jocko]

damn wn
yn,m ur about to replace TINMAN. that is just funnier that hog squat!!! for a minute it had me suckered in.

[DeaconKC]

Pepper spray on dogs is like on people. I am a Parole Agent and have sprayed many dogs in the muzzle, some high tail it away and never come near again, and some it doesn't affect seriously.

[jocko]

well that is good to know. have u tested a 9mm square on a dogs nose to see if it doesn't effect him either. Just sayin.

[Scoundrel]

well that is good to know. have u tested a 9mm square on a dogs nose to see if it doesn't effect him either. Just sayin.

9mm is too weak. You need at least a 40 for a large dog. Better to use a 45 if you have one.

[Popeye]

how about mace or another aerosol defense system?
We carry the Kimber Pepper Blaster (http://www.pepperblaster.com/)

Bought the wife one of these today. She personally will not carry a gun. (I wish she would) but this should be the next best thing. I like the fact that it can spray a pretty good distance and is less effected by wind do to it's 90 mph blast. This she said she would carry. I feel a little better.

[jocko]

popeye, did I read somewhere that thatkimber spray is good for only two sots??? Iknow it has alot ore range than most but it seems very expensive for just 2 shots. Just sayin

[Scoundrel]

Yes, it has two charges with an explosive charge in each barrel. It's like a non-lethal derringer that shoots wads of gel instead of squirting liquid.

So you gotta aim right, and you only get two tries.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pepperblaster

[knkali]

Yes, it has two charges with an explosive charge in each barrel. It's like a non-lethal derringer that shoots wads of gel instead of squirting liquid.

So you gotta aim right, and you only get two tries.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pepperblaster

yep 2 shots only

[Dueeast]

S&W governor is built on an "N" frame. Kinda tough to conceal.

[Tinman507]

Bought the wife one of these today. She personally will not carry a gun. (I wish she would) but this should be the next best thing. I like the fact that it can spray a pretty good distance and is less effected by wind do to it's 90 mph blast. This she said she would carry. I feel a little better.

Good Deal!! My 2 girls (wife and 20 yo daughter) both carry them and I got one for my 83 yo dad. It's not a gun, but baby steps, baby steps.

[Popeye]

Yea two shots is what ya get but at least goes where it's aimed and not blowing back in your own face. It is a little pricey but then again if it saves the wifes life it's pretty cheap. Kind of like me I could have bought a KT PF9 but went with the Kahr PM9 because I kind of figured it would do a better job when I needed it. Price didn't seem to matter then when I wanted a good gun, can't see any reason why it should matter now.;)

I also noticed there was not as many on the rack as there was last week when I was in there. Seems like there are quite a few guys buying them for there sweety. Talked to the GS owner he did say he sells quite a few of them in a month. Like Tinman says baby steps. If she did end up wanting a gun she'd have my EDC PM9 in a heartbeat. I could make do with carrying my G26 if need be without much problem.

[ltxi]

x however many we're up to by now on the Kimber Pepper Blaster. Only pricey when compared to common, cheap pepper spray. Inexpensive enough compared to the pita aftermath of using a firearm in a populated/urban area.

[Scoundrel]

That's a good topic to pursue. How DOES law enforcement react to people using pepper spray against each other? I mean, we know how they reacted to that dude in the superhero outfit in downtown Seattle, but he had it coming.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Seattle-police-arrest-superhero-Phoenix-Jones-2210657.php

But seriously, if some jack-hole gets all up in my face because I asked him not to breathe down my neck while I'm using the ATM, and I hit him with pepper spray, and someone calls the cops, what's going to happen next?

[Tinman507]

I'm past the 50% mark with talking my wife into getting her LTCF and maybe carrying. She enjoys shooting but she's still afraid of carrying. she hates my CM9. She's held a few revolvers and seems to be headed that direction.

My daughter is another whole story. I want her to get her LTCF and begin carrying as soon as she turns 21. Almost exactly the same day she'll be moving to main campus of Penn State to finish her degree. She LOVES my CM9 and shoots it very well. So I may be losing my lil friend. Just means maybe old dad will have to find the K9 Elite he's been lusting after.

[JFootin]

well that is good to know. have u tested a 9mm square on a dogs nose to see if it doesn't effect him either. Just sayin.


9mm is too weak. You need at least a 40 for a large dog. Better to use a 45 if you have one.

I think a Judge or Governor would do the trick! :53:

[AJBert]

I'll be the first on here the admit that I do have a dog that you wouldn't want coming after you off leash. He is a pound rescue we got at the ripe old age of 10 weeks and was raised to not trust strangers.

He learned well.

He has always been fenced and/or in the house. We can't have company over with him in the house. He has bitten one person, a little 10 year old girl, our neighbor, who came into the house without my wife or myself around. Spent 10 days in the pokie for that. The dog, not me.

Funny thing is, he has gotten out of the back yard a couple of times, along with the other two dogs (one being a German Shepard). The few times he go out we got him back before he came across anyone in the neighborhood. The one time we didin't we found him in a neighbor's back yard, with the lady of the house giving him treats.

She knew we kept our dogs fenced up and called him over. I was more than shocked and/or amazed she was still alive. I've come to the conclusion that he will protect to the death his family and his property. If he is on a leash (which he is every time we take him for a walk) please don't try to approach us. Don't come on our property unless we know before hand and can put him in a room or out back.

Truly, he is the best I could have wanted to protect my wife when I was out at sea over the years. He doesn't like people but he loves other dogs.

And I would never blame anyone for putting a bullet in him if he had came after them when he got out. I know what kind of dog I have and I take every precaution to keep him for the general public.

Yes, I do love my mutt. More so than my kids.

[TriggerMan]

I'll be the first on here the admit that I do have a dog that you wouldn't want coming after you off leash. He is a pound rescue we got at the ripe old age of 10 weeks and was raised to not trust strangers.

He learned well.

He has always been fenced and/or in the house. We can't have company over with him in the house. He has bitten one person, a little 10 year old girl, our neighbor, who came into the house without my wife or myself around. Spent 10 days in the pokie for that. The dog, not me.

Funny thing is, he has gotten out of the back yard a couple of times, along with the other two dogs (one being a German Shepard). The few times he go out we got him back before he came across anyone in the neighborhood. The one time we didin't we found him in a neighbor's back yard, with the lady of the house giving him treats.

She knew we kept our dogs fenced up and called him over. I was more than shocked and/or amazed she was still alive. I've come to the conclusion that he will protect to the death his family and his property. If he is on a leash (which he is every time we take him for a walk) please don't try to approach us. Don't come on our property unless we know before hand and can put him in a room or out back.

Truly, he is the best I could have wanted to protect my wife when I was out at sea over the years. He doesn't like people but he loves other dogs.

And I would never blame anyone for putting a bullet in him if he had came after them when he got out. I know what kind of dog I have and I take every precaution to keep him for the general public.

Yes, I do love my mutt. More so than my kids.What if he gets out and comes after a child without a gun? Can you live with that?

[JFootin]

I'll be the first on here the admit that I do have a dog that you wouldn't want coming after you off leash. He is a pound rescue we got at the ripe old age of 10 weeks and was raised to not trust strangers.

He learned well.

He has always been fenced and/or in the house. We can't have company over with him in the house. He has bitten one person, a little 10 year old girl, our neighbor, who came into the house without my wife or myself around. Spent 10 days in the pokie for that. The dog, not me.

Funny thing is, he has gotten out of the back yard a couple of times, along with the other two dogs (one being a German Shepard). The few times he go out we got him back before he came across anyone in the neighborhood. The one time we didin't we found him in a neighbor's back yard, with the lady of the house giving him treats.

She knew we kept our dogs fenced up and called him over. I was more than shocked and/or amazed she was still alive. I've come to the conclusion that he will protect to the death his family and his property. If he is on a leash (which he is every time we take him for a walk) please don't try to approach us. Don't come on our property unless we know before hand and can put him in a room or out back.

Truly, he is the best I could have wanted to protect my wife when I was out at sea over the years. He doesn't like people but he loves other dogs.

And I would never blame anyone for putting a bullet in him if he had came after them when he got out. I know what kind of dog I have and I take every precaution to keep him for the general public.

Yes, I do love my mutt. More so than my kids.

You've admitted here that he gets out at times, how dangerous he is and how he has already bitten a child. If you are going to be a responsible citizen and a good neighbor, you need to take that dog to the pound. Otherwise, you are part of the problem, not the solution. And next time he bites someone, you should go to jail.

[AJBert]

He has only bitten one person INSIDE our house WITHOUT a parent around. The girl's parents knew she should have never come into the house without my wife or I there.

He has gotten out a total of three times in over 12 years, do to human error on our part, not because he "tried" to get out.

When he was a pup we used to bring him down to a dog beach in San Diego. He never had a problem with people as long as he was off leash. On leash, he didn't want anyone approaching us.

I believe we have done a very good job of "controlling" him. Once he knows a person, he loves them unconditionally.

And, no, I did not go to jail because he bit someone entering my house unbeknownst to my wife or I. He is now going on 13 and has been one of the best and by far the smartest dog I've ever owned.

Please don't try to tell me I should go to jail for my dog protecting my house and family, regardless of the age of the person. I dare ANYONE to teach a guard dog to distinguish between age.

I was trying to state I understand both sides of the equation. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Krusty]

;)I'll spray fidos owner with mace and take his dog to join my two for a nice walk!

[TriggerMan]

He has only bitten one person INSIDE our house WITHOUT a parent around. The girl's parents knew she should have never come into the house without my wife or I there.

He has gotten out a total of three times in over 12 years, do to human error on our part, not because he "tried" to get out.

When he was a pup we used to bring him down to a dog beach in San Diego. He never had a problem with people as long as he was off leash. On leash, he didn't want anyone approaching us.

I believe we have done a very good job of "controlling" him. Once he knows a person, he loves them unconditionally.

And, no, I did not go to jail because he bit someone entering my house unbeknownst to my wife or I. He is now going on 13 and has been one of the best and by far the smartest dog I've ever owned.

Please don't try to tell me I should go to jail for my dog protecting my house and family, regardless of the age of the person. I dare ANYONE to teach a guard dog to distinguish between age.

I was trying to state I understand both sides of the equation. Sorry if that wasn't clear.Someone could die. Someone's child.

Someone else could lose a lifetime's worth of assets, including the house. That someone is you.

[AJBert]

Someone could die. Someone's child.

Someone else could lose a lifetime's worth of assets, including the house. That someone is you.
So, by your reasoning, it is ok for me to protect my family and belongings with a firearm but my dog is not allowed to protect the same?

I'm confused...

[Scoundrel]

So, by your reasoning, it is ok for me to protect my family and belongings with a firearm but my dog is not allowed to protect the same?

I'm confused...

These guys are being hard-core, and you came out on a subject that is a sore spot for them.
Just tell yourself they're being kind of extreme, which is fine for them but not your problem, and let it go.

[TriggerMan]

So, by your reasoning, it is ok for me to protect my family and belongings with a firearm but my dog is not allowed to protect the same?

I'm confused...You are correct...in part.

What you are doing with the dog is more akin to leaving a loaded semi on your front step.

With the gun, YOU actually do have it under your control. Still, you are legally responsible for every bullet your fire.

There's a right way to use a gun for SD, there's also a wrong way. Same for dog ownership. You are clinging to the wrong way, or at least the wrong dog.

[TriggerMan]

These guys are being hard-core, and you came out on a subject that is a sore spot for them.
Just tell yourself they're being kind of extreme, which is fine for them but not your problem, and let it go.I'd prefer speak for myself, thank you.

Looking out for the safety of children isn't extreme. I have no sore spot as I don't live close to Baton Rouge.

[Popeye]

I'm a dog type of person. I have two. However I'm well aware that it's my responsibility to make sure there under my control at all times. weather it be in my back yard or on a leash. If I choose to walk them without a leash or they get out of my back yard and they come in contact with someone who feels threatened by there actions then that's on me. A person has the right to protect themselves and family as they see fit, just as my dogs have the right to protect my home if someone should feel the need to invade there space. I do not advocate shooting any animal unless it absolutely nessesary. I much rather spray them with pepper spray. However if a big dog like a Pitbull,Rotty,Akita,or German Shepard,etc. came after me or a member of my family for no reason, yes I would shoot that dog without any reservations or remorse, as the owner should have his dog under control just like mine are.

[knkali]

I'm a dog type of person. I have two. However I'm well aware that it's my responsibility to make sure there under my control at all times. weather it be in my back yard or on a leash. If I choose to walk them without a leash or they get out of my back yard and they come in contact with someone who feels threatened by there actions then that's on me. A person has the right to protect themselves and family as they see fit, just as my dogs have the right to protect my home if someone should feel the need to invade there space. I do not advocate shooting any animal unless it absolutely nessesary. I much rather spray them with pepper spray. However if a big dog like a Pitbull,Rotty,Akita,or German Shepard,etc. came after me or a member of my family for no reason, yes I would shoot that dog without any reservations or remorse, as the owner should have his dog under control just like mine are.

Couldnt ask any more from a dog owner with this view. Spot on.

[knkali]

That's a good topic to pursue. How DOES law enforcement react to people using pepper spray against each other? I mean, we know how they reacted to that dude in the superhero outfit in downtown Seattle, but he had it coming.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Seattle-police-arrest-superhero-Phoenix-Jones-2210657.php

But seriously, if some jack-hole gets all up in my face because I asked him not to breathe down my neck while I'm using the ATM, and I hit him with pepper spray, and someone calls the cops, what's going to happen next?

you would get sued for the emergency room visit costs and any pain and suffering. Also you would probably be arrested for A and B which your attorney would try to plead down.

[espresso]

Funny thing is, he has gotten out of the back yard a couple of times, along with the other two dogs


and I take every precaution to keep him for the general public.


????
Seems to me your dog is a serious accident waiting to happen. A dog that will attack someone after getting out of your yard is very dangerous not to mention a HUGE liability for you and one of the reasons people feel the need to carry pepper spray and guns. Sure he can be an attack dog at your house but if he attacks someone outside your house......look out

[TucsonMTB]

Get a Black Lab. We had one while I was a student at USD. If you met him off leash, your biggest danger was being delayed on your way to class by the puppy with the soulful eyes who wanted to be petted and a chance lick you hand.

However, he sure could bark up a storm when you came in the door of our small house off campus . . . until one of us shook you hand or provided some other signal that you were an honored guest. Then you had to be on the lookout for Mr. Affection.

When we brought a date home, he often tested her sense of humor, usually visiting his water bowl before laying his head in her lap hoping to be petted. The keepers were the ladies who could handle a wet lap with dignity. :D

[Bawanna]

Labs totally rock. I've had a few, darn good dogs every one of them. Always wanted a yellow but always got a black. Still a darn good dog.

[jocko]

Had two yellow labs, just noi better companion and huntjer. My labs were the best waterflow dogs in the 6 county area, People knew their reputation but I worked my ass off training them to. They worked to the whistle perfectly and my bi yellow block head lab was the best dove dog I have ever seen. One reason I really bougyht th yellow labs even was that I knew I woulduse them alot fo dove jhunting and in corn fields or millow feilds he just blended in. I sure miss um both to, they served me well, I took care of them like my kids and they were protecrtive of my property but loving to any kid whether I was around or not. They seemked toknow adult assholes from you nbg kids. They got old with e and that was a good thing as I hunted mostley by myself and they were my talking companions. My labs both could hear when I clicked off my safety on my Model 37 Ithaca and they knew something was in the sky nearby. Damn I could go on and on.

[Jeremiah/Az]

My girlfriend has a yellow Lab. He is a well mannered & very friendly soul. The only thing you have to watch out for is that ball bat of a tail! She brings him to my house to rough neck with my Weimaraners. God, they get rough!

[jocko]

are describing the dog or ur girlfriend, just askin!!!:D

[ptoemmes]

I assume we in this esteemed group would never agree on the best breed so I'll not try to sway you toward German Shepherds.

But they are ;-)

I'll bet we can agree that this http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/results/bis/ would not be our collective choice. Not that there is anything wrong with small furry - uh - I mean WTF is that thing?

There were are at least four finalists: GSD, Dobie, Dalmation, and Irish Setter that could have eaten that Pekingese in one gulp.

Not that there is anything wrong with Pekingese.

Pete

[Bawanna]

I assume we in this esteemed group would never agree on the best breed so I'll not try to sway you toward German Shepherds.

But they are ;-)

I'll bet we can agree that this http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/results/bis/ would not be our collective choice. Not that there is anything wrong with small furry - uh - I mean WTF is that thing?

There were are at least four finalists: GSD, Dobie, Dalmation, and Irish Setter that could have eaten that Pekingese in one gulp.

Not that there is anything wrong with Pekingese.

Pete

I nearly fainted, last year or the year before a Beagle won best over all at Westminster. Obviously not any where near the blood line of the beagle I got. I think I got one without a fully functioning brain. First dog in my life I paid money for. Wife and kids got it, just brought it home. Friendly, nice looking shorter version but not too equipped in the thinking department.

[jocko]

well i would say bawanna ur beagle and u ar enow on the same path of funtionalit!!! Just sayin.

[TucsonMTB]

Friendly, nice looking shorter version but not too equipped in the thinking department.
Oh, I don't know. Seems to have figured out how to get you to offer food and water every day. ;)

[jocko]

good point there tucson, u don't train dogs they train u.

[AJBert]

????
Seems to me your dog is a serious accident waiting to happen. A dog that will attack someone after getting out of your yard is very dangerous not to mention a HUGE liability for you and one of the reasons people feel the need to carry pepper spray and guns. Sure he can be an attack dog at your house but if he attacks someone outside your house......look out
Did you miss the part about the ONE time he came across someone when he got out, one of three times in 12+ years?!? The neighbor called him over and put him in her back yard and was giving him treats until we showed up!!! She was playing ball with him, petting him and he was loving it. Guess I should still be thrown in jail for having such a dangerous animal. I'd say go back and read my posts but pretty sure that won't happen.

Aside from this mutt of mine, I'd put a German Shepard as the best dog to own, particularly if you have kids. Very smart and very protective. Why do you think it is one of only two breeds the military uses as Military Working Dogs and LEO's use primarily for K-9?

[jdlott74]

We got a bingo right here. We've created a generation with little to no respect for a badge or a uniform. Cop so much as looks at somebody and they scream your violating their civil rights. Everythings a test.
I get sick to my stomach with the Open Carriers saying they need to educate the cops.
It will only get worse.

Law Enforcement- one of the few jobs where you can do everything right and still get fired and your career ended on the whims of others. Make no mistake, there are some cops who really shouldn't be but by and large they walk around with a huge target on their back and put up with a truck load of crap every single day that just would not have flown even 15 years ago.

AMEN!!!! Don't even get me started on the disrespect LEO get in this society today. Let's just say that as a future LEOW my attitude has changed overnight to the disrespect and I'm likely to start going off on that subject, but I'll leave that to vent on my LEOW forums....

[knkali]

Sheps are great dogs. Met a few rough ones too. When thay are good they are great, but they can be high strug too. I had a great one though--probably saved my life too. I know many will say that this happens with every breed. I can say from my experience that labs usually have a higher % of being docile. Hell they wear bandanas and look cool doing it.

[espresso]

I was more than shocked and/or amazed she was still alive.

Yeah I read you post AJBert .....at first I read this to mean you were surprised the lady was still alive but I guessing you mean the dog.:2eek: I Never said anything about thinking you should be thrown in jail. I love dogs and have one myself. A former neighbor had a serious dog phobia and had animal control on speed dial. He once called because he saw our dog peeing in OUR yard at 6:00 am! Just be careful I've been bitten more than once by dogs that have left their yard.

[yatyas42]

A good option is bear mace. It has a long spray distance, and it's potent.
My department sprayed the hell out of us with pepper spray and tased all of us. The taser was easily the most pain I've ever felt, but I would gladly take it over pepper spray , that stuff sucks for hours.
At work I have used pepper spray on dogs, and it works, but I think that the best deterrent for dogs was mentioned earlier. When I spark my taser without the projectile cartridge, I have had 100% success warding off angry dogs. There's something about the noise.
Funny story for those still reading. I had to go in to a house, due to a reported domestic violence. We had to check the residence, and I was warding off their angry female pitbull mix with my taser. She followed us all through the house but kept her distance. Turned out no one was home. Me and partner went back the next day to question them about the night prior. The owners were home and we were talking in the kitchen. The dog was sitting at the feet of the owner just looking at me, but not barking. About ten minutes after being there in mid sentence that little turd without warning lunged the 5 or so feet at me and clamped down on the crotch of my pants! Missed my junk by millimeters! Luckily myself and the owner were quick to act, and she let go quickly (and I had no intentions of shooting that close to my manhood). My partner was too busy laughing to be of any help. The owner kept apologizing and couldn't believe I wasn't mad. The way I saw it, in the eyes of the dog we were even. He swears thats the first time the dog has big anyone.

[espresso]

Something that's funny only AFTER it happens. Don't want to get the taser going down there either:eek:

[LaP]

Luckily myself and the owner were quick to act, and she let go quickly (and I had no intentions of shooting that close to my manhood). My partner was too busy laughing to be of any help.

Don't ya just love it when friends/partners/co-workers watch you get the crap beat out of you and all they do is fall over laughing!!!
I don't know why it is, but there's nothing funny about it when I get a 2X4 across the back of my knees
..... but, I do get a chuckle when I see a buddy do a header into a wall. :rolleyes:

[jocko]

Did you miss the part about the ONE time he came across someone when he got out, one of three times in 12+ years?!? The neighbor called him over and put him in her back yard and was giving him treats until we showed up!!! She was playing ball with him, petting him and he was loving it. Guess I should still be thrown in jail for having such a dangerous animal. I'd say go back and read my posts but pretty sure that won't happen.

Aside from this mutt of mine, I'd put a German Shepard as the best dog to own, particularly if you have kids. Very smart and very protective. Why do you think it is one of only two breeds the military uses as Military Working Dogs and LEO's use primarily for K-9?

great dogs, but I would not put them in a specila HOME class inviroment based on what the military does or uses them for. Shepards are personal dogs IMO, very protective to. If that is what you wnat fine. Give me a lab any day for a home dog and certainly a better hunter than any shepard will ever be. I have a big box of matches, so let the fires begin..:blah:

[AJBert]

For a hunter, I'm a bit partial to Britnays. Though, I will agree that the best all around hunter is a lab. I've hunted with many dogs over the years. Labs can do it all but not the best for one particular type of hunting other than water fowl. There are many other breeds that are much better for upland birds than labs, but none better overall for all bird hunting.

[Husky44]

Boy, I leave for a couple of days, and things get all interesting around here.

Lots of thoughts to the many different directions this thread has gone:

1) OP: First, it depends on how experienced you are with dogs, but my advice from lots of years training and working with them, as well as daily experience running with my two (used to be two Great Danes, now a Great Dane and a 100# Husky/Malamute mix): If you're walking your dogs, don't let them be out in front of you--you're the leader, you lead. When you get charged by an off-leash dog, you step in front, and face the charging dog, and give a strong "No." Not screaming, not high-pitched, not aggressive, just authoritative. 99% of the time, they'll stop or turn off and try to get around you. They're not coming after you, they're charging the dog; once they realize that you're together and they're outnumbered, they don't want a fight. You taking charge and establishing yourself as boss will resolve this without any problems in almost every situation. If you're dogs get out front, you have a lot higher chance of a dog fight, which is when it sounds like you got bit. On that 1% chance that it's not, remember that you're an adult human being who weighs at least twice as much, and are stronger. You can easily defend yourself against a dog, but like I said earlier, it's likely to never happen. You got it right in one of your later comments: any kind of spray, taser, or handgun in close quarters with two other dogs on leashes is probably going to turn out bad.

2) Great Danes are incredibly friendly dogs away from the house--I've raised Danes my whole life, and showed them growing up, and have only met one Dane that some idiot tried to make viscous. They are also some of the best natural protection dogs I've ever seen. If I'm home and let you in, you're a welcome guest who will learn that no dog is too big to be a lap dog. If you come to the door, and I don't let you in, you'll be watched like a hawk. When my daughter was younger her best buddy was a 140# male who watched over her like a hawk. The neighbors in our circle laughed at the little 4 year old girl walking her dog with her arm extended over her head to reach his collar. He'd sleep in the yard and watch her play, and if a stranger came into the street, he'd walk to the edge of the yard, and do his best Hulk Hogan flex. He knew when to be protective. Any other times, he was the biggest, friendliest doof you'd ever meet.

3) To all the comments about AJBert's posts: How about we all back off the rhetoric a little since we don't know all the details? If you come in my house when no one's home, you can bet your rear you're going to get bit... you're liable to be hospitalized. My dogs are not vicious; quite the opposite, I've never had anyone NOT comment on how well-trained my dogs are. But protecting their property is part of their job. Are you saying you think the dog should be put down because an intruder got bit?

4) As to the discussion of the best breed: I'll put in a vote for Great Dane, but not for any Northern breed. The one I've got now is the only one I'll ever have. Stubborn, flaky, extremely pack-oriented, and either very dominant or very submissive. I don't think I've met any that are "balanced". Kenai is as close to a wolf personality as I've ever seen... He's a one-person dog, and I'm it. Anyone else, he'll try to dominate. But, he's part of the family, so he gets to stay. But there won't be another one.

[TriggerMan]

Boy, I leave for a couple of days, and things get all interesting around here.

Lots of thoughts to the many different directions this thread has gone:

...
3) To all the comments about AJBert's posts: How about we all back off the rhetoric a little since we don't know all the details? If you come in my house when no one's home, you can bet your rear you're going to get bit... you're liable to be hospitalized. My dogs are not vicious; quite the opposite, I've never had anyone NOT comment on how well-trained my dogs are. But protecting their property is part of their job. Are you saying you think the dog should be put down because an intruder got bit?

...Of course not.

[yote]

Husky44 has some excellent points.

As a K-9 handler, I can safely approach most dogs. Even dogs that have reacted aggressively toward other people.

I have met many Great Danes. They have all been friendly. I have met many friendly pit bulls.

Aggression cannot be blamed on breed. It is usually the dog owner's fault. In my experience, it is often the smaller dogs that are biters.

I have deployed pepper spray successfully against at least a dozen individual attacking dogs. Pepper spray is non-lethal and wears off after several hours. However, I readily resort to lethal force against aggressive pit bull, bull mastiff and similar breeds. Sometimes I keep a lethal alternative at the ready while deploying pepper spray against larger dogs.

I am a responsible dog owner. With K-9s, obediance training is mandatory. Everything my dogs do is on command.

[knkali]

Husky44 has some excellent points.

As a K-9 handler, I can safely approach most dogs. Even dogs that have reacted aggressively toward other people.

I have met many Great Danes. They have all been friendly. I have met many friendly pit bulls.

Aggression cannot be blamed on breed. It is usually the dog owner's fault. In my experience, it is often the smaller dogs that are biters.

I have deployed pepper spray successfully against at least a dozen individual attacking dogs. Pepper spray is non-lethal and wears off after several hours. However, I readily resort to lethal force against aggressive pit bull, bull mastiff and similar breeds. Sometimes I keep a lethal alternative at the ready while deploying pepper spray against larger dogs.

I am a responsible dog owner. With K-9s, obediance training is mandatory. Everything my dogs do is on command.

It is nice to be with a dog that has been well taken care of and the owners have enough time and commitment to train them. Not only does the dog feel likes it is getting a lot of love and attention, the dog also seems to like the training to. The dog knows what is exactly expected of them and they really want to give it. Everyone wins.

[knkali]

I am not a fan of the soundtrack but I will let the images settle into your brain of how ugly being on the biting end of a dog can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6t6B3O5h6w&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[michpatriot]

A big ol can of FOX...:)