Range report..Perplexed.....

[Athensm50]

ok...so two things

First:
I went to the range last night....to shoot some defensive rounds thru the CM9.....had some Hornady Critical Defense 115 and some Speer Gold Dots 115 thru...I had ran about 300 rounds thru the CM FLAWLESSLY!!!!....not a FTE or FTF.....so was ready to start the defensive testing....loaded up 2 mag's with CD shot them thru like a dream.....loaded up 2 mag's of GD.....Perfect!....not a hick up.....I was just so happy I bought this little gun!!!.....it rocks!!!....

Then.....I thought I would run another 50 rounds thru while I was at the range.....out of that box of 50 I had 2 FTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..:mad:..WHAT....I thought I was thru the brake in period :eek: what the crap!

Have to number my mag's...not done that...so I do not know if they were out of the same mag or not......was shooting Blazer Brass 115 FMJ....both rounds seems to "Nose drive"....I tapped the back of the slide but could not get them to feed.....had to drop the mag.

It had me all messed up!!!....Maybe it was me????.(sure it was).....I was not putting groups on target like I was on other range trips....seems like I could not get my hands comfortable....seemed like I had some thing foreign in my hands......just could not get comfortable.:blah:


Second:
The second thing is the mags......does everyones mags seem like they are "Loose" while in the gun?.....with other guns I have owned when you put the mag in it "Clicked" and it was TIGHT as one with the gun......both my mag's seem to click but feel loose as if they didn't seat well?



anyone else experienced a trip like this???

Thanks for any input.

Athens

[jocko]

kida hard to diagnose just two ftf rounds. could be possably shooter error, tired shooter, The magazine once locked into place, if u can't pull it back out then it is OK. U ammo selection might posably a round that doesn't do well in ur kahr. although karhs are not ammo sensitive, doe snot mean tha tyours ios not. quite possale whe u shoot another 200 rounds of ammo it will then function witht he rounds you had a couple of fts with.
IMO 300 flawless rounds tells me ur gun is good to go and qite possably ur 2 issues was shooter error of some sort. We all guessing here to, so take what I say with 2 cetns of worth.
Not sure ur issue is one to loose alot of sleep over, marking urmagazines is a good thing to start with trouble shooting any issue to, u ahve to also be aware all the time of proper grip to. I can move my mags around in my PM9 but it doesn't matter either.

[Ikeo74]

I think it was shooter fatigue. You should have stopped shooting before your hands got so fatigued from the recoil that they felt funny (your words) and weak. Your problem was limp wristing from shooting so many rounds. The next time at the range everything will be normal again. Don't worry it's not a fault with your gun. :w00t:

[Ikeo74]

..

Then.....I thought I would run another 50 rounds thru while I was at the range.....out of that box of 50 I had 2 FTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..:mad:..WHAT....I thought I was thru the brake in period :eek: what the crap!


"seems like I could not get my hands comfortable....seemed like I had some thing foreign in my hands......just could not get comfortable".:blah:

This is what I am referring to. ^^^^^^^^













[/QUOTE]

[jocko]

one tends when he loves a gun to shoo tit likehe stole it and some calibers take more out of u than others. KIahrs arenot bigt guns, and they are lighter than air and when one pushes 200+ rounds in ne session, he should take some breaks between rounds andlet himslef regenerate. When one gets a ftf at the range that isthe good timne to do the TAP, RACK AND BANG DRILLS. Normally when a guns is doing great like a 100+ good orunds and then one gets a ftf, normalyt it is shooter error. A gun can't count and if indeed something is wrong witht he gun, it should duplicate itself time and time again. We tend to blame the gun for as u know we are never at fault..

[Athensm50]

It had me all messed up!!!....Maybe it was me????.(sure it was).....I was not putting groups on target like I was on other range trips....seems like I could not get my hands comfortable....seemed like I had some thing foreign in my hands......just could not get comfortable.:blah:


I take the blame^^^^^^^^


but I only had shot a total of 74 round total for the day....I had already had done my 200+ at other range trips....and the FTF's came about 20 rounds into....after the Defensive Ammo.....but at the end of a work day????....

sure it was me.....maybe :confused:

[jocko]

we are just speculating here, only u know if this could be a possability. Next ragne trip when fresh do the defense ammo first to see if it duplicates......

[DKD]

Hey guys, has anyone considered that those FTF might be realted to the aluminum casings on the Blazer ammo?
Being that they are aluminum and prone to expand alot more due to chamber pressure more so than brass cases. Just a thought. I am an avid relaoder and those Blazers are not fit to relaod for fear of case fatigue.

[crazymailman]

Hey guys, has anyone considered that those FTF might be realted to the aluminum casings on the Blazer ammo?
Being that they are aluminum and prone to expand alot more due to chamber pressure more so than brass cases. Just a thought. I am an avid relaoder and those Blazers are not fit to relaod for fear of case fatigue.

I think Athensm50 was referring to the Blazer brass that is pretty common at WalMart. From my experience it is pretty good range fodder.

BTW, I have re-loaded them and they worked ok

[CootShooter]

Did you clean the gun after the 200 round break in shoot(s) or was it dirtier than a blind man's toilet seat?

[muggsy]

Hey guys, has anyone considered that those FTF might be realted to the aluminum casings on the Blazer ammo?
Being that they are aluminum and prone to expand alot more due to chamber pressure more so than brass cases. Just a thought. I am an avid relaoder and those Blazers are not fit to relaod for fear of case fatigue.

He was shooting Blazer Brass. Blazer ammo in any configuration isn't what I'd consider top shelf.

[jocko]

I don';t feel like I want to blame the amo, it can't taqlk back either. Kahrs have never been ammo sensitive, His few issues to me are jst that FEW and maybe now he will never have those issues again,, for I feel he ismore consicrious now of the replys we allhave given and maybe osme of them might have soaked in with him to. I just feel if it is a gun issue in allthose rounds and 3 ftfs, is more of a non gun issue than a gun issue. A bad part doesn't heal itself. Blazer brass I have never had an issue with ever, I try to stay away from aluminum and steel, especially steel. aluminum is just a fobia of mine as I cannot base it on any facts of being bad stuff. If it was plenty cheaper than I can buy WWb at wal mart from, I wouldnot hesitate to buy it and fully knowing that it might give a few crapola issues, would not bother me as it would be range fodder and not defense fodder. . Just sayin.

[Athensm50]

Did you clean the gun after the 200 round break in shoot(s) or was it dirtier than a blind man's toilet seat?

Cleaned it a couple times during break in........

[SpecK]

Did you clean the gun after the 200 round break in shoot(s) or was it dirtier than a blind man's toilet seat?

BAHAHAHAHAHA! +1 - I feel like you've been to a blind man's house...

[Popeye]

No question about it, these are SD pistols. They sometimes can get a little querky after you put to many rounds of dirty practice ammo through them. I've had my PM9 long enough to be able to tell when it's getting a little on the dirty side just by how it feels when it cycles. I think some new owners think you can shoot these things like XD's, Glocks.Etc. These small 9mm pistols are not duty weapons designed to be shot under extreme, or filthy conditions. It's been a very long time since I've put a 100 rounds through my PM9 at one time. One reason is because I don't believe in shooting my EDC PM9 dirty as I don't think it does the pistol a whole lot of good, and the other is because I start loosing accuracy with the small pistols and its like wasting ammo. Now my Glock 26 or my CZ75B or RIA 1911 I think nothing of it because it,s designed to do so. Kahrs CM/PM9 pistols are great pistols (none better)for what there designed to do.

[SpecK]

[QUOTEI think some new owners think you can shoot these things like XD's, Glocks.Etc. These small 9mm pistols are not duty weapons designed to be shot under extreme, or filthy conditions. It's been a very long time since I've put a 100 rounds through my PM9 at one time. QUOTE]

A wise man once told me, make your EDC the first and the last thing you shoot at the range, but NEVER let it be your range gun. Familiarize familiarize familiarize. :53:

[smokintonye]

Just broke mine in today and had one nosedive. I didn't have the round seated all the way back in the mag, and I know that's the reason it happened. I think a lot of the nosedive issues I am reading about, could be attributed to this. Seems like if your not carefully while loading the mag, it's easy to not seat the last round.

So yeah, I think operator error is most likely responsible for nosedives. jMHO!

[jocko]

acleangun is a happy gun but if a kahr can't take a 100 rounds blindfolded without giving issues then there is something wrong with the gun. Ammo is not that dirty sure the chamber might look black but if u lubed the gun, the lube is certainly still there in a 100 or 200 rouds. I don't shoot more at ay one time than a 100 rounds due to just the fact that I don't want to do it. I don'rt worry aobut my PM9 not being able to do the job and I know in my 32K rounds out of my PM9 I have many times shot at least 200 rounds or more many times, today I just don't do that . It ain't cheap u know and when I sit there at 7 yards and in the first 50 orunds tend to not shoot well I have no reason to think the next 50 or 100 is going to get much better. Each to his own methods of what constitutes a dirty gun but I think we way way under estimate the ability of kahrs long term shooting. I would never want to try to prove a point that my kahr will go 500 or 1000 rounds without clleaning and lubing, for I do think my PM9 will do that but doesn't mean urs will or again WHY WOULD I WANT T DO THAT. If glocks can do that which they can, then kudos to them. proves really nadda to me for my pocket gun is always cleaned and lubed before it goes into my pocket. I never carry a spare mag, so my thoughs are for if i need to use it in a SHTF situation.. is to ask God to let my PM9 go bang the next 7 times I pull the trgger,then afer than the gun can literally fall apart in peaces. I don't really care.

[Replay13]

Some seems to like to blame the shooter. But considering that over 95% of the complaints about the PM9 and CM9 are nose dive jams, I wouldn't put the blame on your shooting. The only way I would blame you if the pistol wasn't cleaned and lubed right before taking it to the range that day. The feed ramps can get pretty gunky with cheap range ammo and the slide works a lot better running on rails that are well lubed with a good grease made for auto pistols.

I would clean and lube it really good then run a couple boxes through it. Then do the same again another day and see if it doesn't run 100% again. You need confidence in a carry pistol. Another 400 rounds or so will make it even function better! Also make sure all the springs are in the right way.

Have fun and keep us posted,
James

[Athensm50]

ok...I started this post....the a gun was NOT dirty....it only about 40 rounds thru it.....it was cleaned and oiled be for the range trip....I under stand the the gun gets dirty as you shoot it.....but if I had 300 rounds thru it.....before I started getting jams.....maybe....but 30 or 40 rounds....come on :7:

[DKD]

Another potential problem which is rather common with these mini blasters is that we just don't grip the pistol with the proper grip and pressure. Should you also either limp wrist the pistol (target shooters grip) or allow your arm and wrist not be locked, your arm acts like a shock absorber, causing the slide to short stroke which will affect propr pistol cycling.

These are state of the art, small firearms, that have incredably close tolerances, short demensions and double recoil springs to make them work on such a small scale. Afrter the pistols are broken in and its parts mated to the slide & barrel, more cases than not it can be traced back to user error. Go out and shoot the pistol and try to eliminate these issues one at a time and usually it will work itself out.

If all else fails, check that magazine and the orientation of the loaded round vs slide stop, with the slide off, of course.