what ya think??.

[jocko]

of the new PM( witht he external safety and loaded round indicator???

My comments: I hope kahr keeps this to a minimum, as the pM and all kahrs the way they are made now are absolutley perfect IMO. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I understand the Massachusetts concept. Not a bad idea oto have a choice either, as I know from past posts on other forums some have questioned no external safety.

The loaded round indicator, for me anyway sucks. I can feel and tell on my PM9 if it loaded. If my slide is not locked open,my kahr is LOADED. reminds me of that Ruger indicator, but at least it is on the side of the ruger and not on top.The thing that gets me the most is that awful butt butt ugly warning essay on top of the damn slide.. Just to me kills the over all looks of the kahr. but that being said if you are in massachusetts and want a kahr, now you can own one legally, for me thought MY PM9 suits me fine just the way it is.

[sharpetop]

I didn't know these options even existed! The safety is between your ears and ALL guns should be considered loaded! I'm glad I don't live in a state that controls every move I make.

[dollarguy]

My XDM arrived last March and they all have a loaded chamber indicator as well as a striker indicator showing cocked or not. At first I found these "comforting". When my Kahr arrived in early August, I did notice the PM9 did not have either of these features, but with close to 3500 rounds combined in both guns, I find no mandated need to have these indicators on all guns.

[Tug Brown]

Hello everyone,

I used to carry on the job nearly 30 years ago as a sworn officer. The weapon back them was a S&W 38 w/ a snub nose on a gun belt. It was loaded all the time, but I lived alone and had no worries about someone picking the thing up and handling it.

I now alternate between two carry weapons, the PM9 and a Kel-Tec P3AT. Both have their advantages. I carry in my pocket using a Desantis holster. I know the long trigger pull is safe, but I wanted to get used to the idea of carrying again so I have gradually learned to carry either of these weapons with and without a round chambered. I plan to move to round chambered all the time. The Kel-Tec has a small gap where you can see the cartridge in the breech. The PM9 has the indicator. Both are useful and have their place. I think it is good to be able to take a quick look to check or to feel with your finger to see if a round is chambered.

The idea of an indicator would be even better if you could see a little of the cartrdige like in the Kel-Tec. However if it is dark you could easily check by passing your finger over the indicator on the PM9.

I agree that the best safety is "between your ears" and all guns are to be considered loaded unless proven otherwise. It is all a matter of my own personal psychology of getting used to having a loaded gun on or around me.

[jocko]

dollarguy. Ur PM9 has a loaded round indicator, just not as obvious as the one they have sticking up on the new PM9 that is now all red in color when sticking up, Not sure if it is in ones sight picutre either when shooting.

Ur extractor will stick out and can be felt in the dark when a loaded round is in the chamber, if in doubt.

if one carry's as he should IMO with one in the chamber 24/7 there is no need for a loaded round indicator or cocking indicator, on kahrs anyway.

Probably the design team was made up of 9 lawyers and one engineer:confused::confused:

[Steelheart]

I could care less if the gun has a loaded chamber indicator as long as it does not effect reliability of the gun.

I don't generally want a manual safety as it's something else that can go wrong and yes, I know that you train to take it off right away. I'm comfortable with the DAO trigger pull with the gun in a pocket or belt holster that covers the trigger guard.

Steelheart

[ltxi]

It's a Mass compliant gun....I'm sure there are other states considered...California comes to mind. Stupid add ons....doesn't need an external safety, it's DAO with a long trigger pull. And as noted above, it already has a loaded chamber indicator...non flush extractor on the side of the slide. Red markings to turn a black on black PM9 into a cartoon looking gun....nice!

[Spank the Monkey]

Don't much care for an LCI. Like it's been said before, they're all loaded!

[Warhammer]

Meh... I feel like these new features are unneeded and have simply been added as lawyer pacifiers. I can understand Kahr's business decision to make a version to comply with certain states' (ridiculous and pointless) laws, but I would rather see them refuse to comply and use the same amount of resources to work toward restoring the citizens' rights in those same states. Suffice to say, I now have even less desire (less than zero) to ever visit Massachusetts.

[jocko]

Meh... I feel like these new features are unneeded and have simply been added as lawyer pacifiers. I can understand Kahr's business decision to make a version to comply with certain states' (ridiculous and pointless) laws, but I would rather see them refuse to comply and use the same amount of resources to work toward restoring the citizens' rights in those same states. Suffice to say, I now have even less desire (less than zero) to ever visit Massachusetts.

same thing for komifornia. If u want to sell in their state, one has to conform, whether they like it or not. Emissions comes to mind first off for komifornia. after chappa, I heard life vests was mandatory in all vehicles in Massachusetts???

[deadhead1971]

I got my PM 9 in June. Glad I did. I do not like the new features, especially all those words on the top of the slide.

[SC Tiger]

I REALLY don't like the way the safety works. It should be the opposite (up for safe, down for fire) like pretty much every other frame-mounted semi-auto safety in existance. Moving your thumb in a downward motion can be a natural move and part of the drawing motion - moving it up and then down isn't as easy.

[jocko]

I REALLY don't like the way the safety works. It should be the opposite (up for safe, down for fire) like pretty much every other frame-mounted semi-auto safety in existance. Moving your thumb in a downward motion can be a natural move and part of the drawing motion - moving it up and then down isn't as easy.

witht he location of the safety, you just might be suprised at how easy it to work. I would like to think kahr did not flip a coin in their decision as how the safety should work. Until one has a chance to really test it out, proabably we are all just "guessing" what is best. I could if need be live witht he safety, not being a LEO I can use maybe some features to assure safety, YMMV but I just hate that butt butt ugle printing on top of the slide alone with that to me unnecessary loaded round indicator. More than like both was a must in order to get Massachusetts approval. Kahr won't drop what is working and selling for them either. The standard version kahrs will be here, but I also feel that down the road we will possable see more versions of this Massachusette gun. PM40, PM45 comes to mind. I don't forsee it in the steel versions....

[Cappy]

I have got to agree, I like the Kahr guns the way they are. I like the idea that I don't have to think about the safety latch in a time of adrenalin flow. I know when I have been hunting, which is nowhere near as exciting as being confronted with an attacker, I have forgotten to flip the safety before trying to pull the trigger. It happens when you do not practice almost everyday, and when defense situations are not part of your job. I like that my Kahr is loaded and ready if I need it for protection to save a life, and I am not fiddling with added things to be able to shoot. I know there are lots of people who would disagree, but I have friends who are in law enforcement, and in heated situations they have caught themselves with issues with getting the first shot off. It happens, and the less one has to think about, the more they can concentrate on what is happening in front of them - IMO.

[jocko]

thats why glocks are in 65% of all LEO departments. Nothing to think about except pulling and shooting. Also why kahrs are so acceptable to LEO'S ofr BUG. I read where the Chicago police dept has ok'ed the carry of kahrs for BUG..

[DakPara]

I think the Kahr with the safety and LCI is an abomination.

I hope Justin Moon was on vacation with no cell phone coverage when the drawings and approval were sent to manufacturing.

[Cappy]

thats why glocks are in 65% of all LEO departments. Nothing to think about except pulling and shooting. Also why kahrs are so acceptable to LEO'S ofr BUG. I read where the Chicago police dept has ok'ed the carry of kahrs for BUG..

Yes Sir! That is why my three most used guns are my Kahrs, Glock G27, and S&W M&P 9mm. Just point and shoot! :D

[dollarguy]

I have got to agree, I like the Kahr guns the way they are. I like the idea that I don't have to think about the safety latch in a time of adrenalin flow. I know when I have been hunting, which is nowhere near as exciting as being confronted with an attacker, I have forgotten to flip the safety before trying to pull the trigger. It happens when you do not practice almost everyday, and when defense situations are not part of your job. I like that my Kahr is loaded and ready if I need it for protection to save a life, and I am not fiddling with added things to be able to shoot. I know there are lots of people who would disagree, but I have friends who are in law enforcement, and in heated situations they have caught themselves with issues with getting the first shot off. It happens, and the less one has to think about, the more they can concentrate on what is happening in front of them - IMO.

Bravo!

Why have a weapon if you can not fire immediately upon need with no action beyond pressing the trigger?

We are trained to never touch the trigger until you have a target you intend to put a round into. That is safety enough, in my very un-humble opinion.

:)

[jocko]

Bravo!

Why have a weapon if you can not fire immediately upon need with no action beyond pressing the trigger?

We are trained to never touch the trigger until you have a target you intend to put a round into. That is safety enough, in my very un-humble opinion.

:)

probably right but I bet there are some people who train with a safety type gun who can get off that first round as fast as most of us can with nothing. Kahr is not going to ram this model up our asses either, They know what sells, they made a decision to get more business down the road. I see nothing wrong with that. No one has to buy it either and that will further send them a message to keep what is working. I sold guns for a living for 40years and we pushed glocks heavily back then due to reliability etc, but I had some people who would not buy it PERIOD due to no REAL safety externally.They thought as many still do that that trigger safety was pure B.S.

Stick shift vs. auto tranny. make um both, sell um what they want..

[lunde]

I see this as a good thing if it helps people who cannot otherwise acquire a Kahr Arms pistol. Think about it. Just because a pistol has a manual safety, it doesn't mean it needs to be used. This is especially true of pistols that were designed to exclude a manual safety. The California Edition of the Seecamp LWS 32 has a manual safety, which is at the top of the trigger:

http://lundestudio.com/photos/lws32ca-right.jpg

It's there merely to satisfy strange laws that affect the ability to purchase firearms. The same could be said of S&W's built-in lock. Several of my S&W revolvers have this lock, and I have not once actuated it.

As for the slide, well good thing that Kahr Arms sells slides separately.

Releasing the PM9193 is a way for Kahr Arms to test the waters for markets that require these, um, features.

[jocko]

don't u just love it when the stamp on the damn gun "california edition"??It does not need to be on there to be komifornia legal. Kinda detracts from what looks like a well made nice looking gun IMO

[alnitak]

I see this as a good thing if it helps people who cannot otherwise acquire a Kahr Arms pistol.

It's there merely to satisfy strange laws that affect the ability to purchase firearms.

The problem is, it adds to the price of the gun, even for those that need/want the new features, as new manufacturing lines have to be created, extra design, engineering and test effort, extra marketing collaterals, etc. The overall costs for the company increase dramatically, and those expenses relate to price increases across the board. The darn lawyers and gun-control groups should keep their noses out of business they know nothing about! They haven't a clue as to what is necessary in a SD situation.

As one person said, the best safety is between the ears ... and if you gun isn't loaded all the time, it should be -- so no need for an LCI.

[WMD]

of the new PM( witht he external safety and loaded round indicator???

My comments: I hope kahr keeps this to a minimum, as the pM and all kahrs the way they are made now are absolutley perfect IMO. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I understand the Massachusetts concept. Not a bad idea oto have a choice either, as I know from past posts on other forums some have questioned no external safety.

The loaded round indicator, for me anyway sucks. I can feel and tell on my PM9 if it loaded. If my slide is not locked open,my kahr is LOADED. reminds me of that Ruger indicator, but at least it is on the side of the ruger and not on top.The thing that gets me the most is that awful butt butt ugly warning essay on top of the damn slide.. Just to me kills the over all looks of the kahr. but that being said if you are in massachusetts and want a kahr, now you can own one legally, for me thought MY PM9 suits me fine just the way it is.

I agree with you Jocko,

I guess this solves Mass's problems and makes the gun available to Mass folks, but I am not a fan of the LCI, Writing, and Safety lever. This reminds me when Ruger started printing all of the stuff on their guns. Destroy's the looks of a good looking gun. The way we are going it won't be long before every baby born will have a "warning label" tattooed inside their eyelids! :D

[jocko]

I agree with you Jocko,

I guess this solves Mass's problems and makes the gun available to Mass folks, but I am not a fan of the LCI, Writing, and Safety lever. This reminds me when Ruger started printing all of the stuff on their guns. Destroy's the looks of a good looking gun. The way we are going it won't be long before every baby born will have a "warning label" tattooed inside their eyelids! :D
of good guns screwed up because of allthe writing on the dman guns.

I was thinking, all kahrs actualy have a loaded round indicator on them. If the slide is not locked open the damn gun is loaded and that is a very obvious feature to.