P380 question: custom grips = better reliability/accuracy?

[Dmitri]

Hi all,

An almost-newbie here -- maybe I'm asking silly questions below or it's already been discussed to death in the past, so please bear with me...

I've looked and looked online and couldn't find any direct info specifically talking about this, so I thought I'd ask you guys, since I'm about to get me a Kahr P380... (waiting for a gun show next weekend, hoping for a good deal there...)

I've put 50 rounds (95-grain TCJ from Atlanta Arms) through a rental piece at an indoor range yesterday, and had one FTL. I think it was probably because of a problem holding it -- the handle is very small... I love the size of it but if I can't fell 100% comfortable shooting it, I'll probably go with the (heavier/larger) CM9, which I've also shot before and it felt great in my hand and there were no problems whatsoever. I just really like the size and especially the weight of the P380 and would love to make it work if I can, so, naturally, I'm thinking, "custom grips should help"... Something like this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61vXPJgqUBL.jpg


So my questions are:

1) Have any of you had experience with those (from Hogue, or similar), and from that experience -- is the difference substantial enough to make it feel as good (or close to as good) in the hand as the CM9/PM9?

2) Do grips in your opinion actually improve reliability (and accuracy), i.e. has anyone run any statistics with shooting with/without grips? Or is it just for "better feel", more comfort, etc.?

Thanks in advance!

[JFootin]

I can tell you is that a rubber grip is likely to be bothersome for pocket carry. I use a Qwik-Grip on my CM9 and love it. But when trying pocket carry, I found that the tackiness of the rubber made it get tangled with the cloth of the pocket and be very difficult to get a clean draw. So, I abandoned pocket carry for my CM9 and carry it on my waist. Now, I have clumsy small hands. So, especially with the smaller P380, someone with larger hands should be able to surround the grip and eliminate the sticky factor when drawing.

The Hogue has the palm swells and finger groove, which should give you more to grip. And any rubber grip is going to tame the cheese graters on the front and back of the grip, and considerably cushion your hand during recoil, which I hear is quite a bit more pronounced in the featherlight P380, though it is reputed to be milder than it's competition (LCP, TCP, P3AT, etc.).

[Dmitri]

Thanks; haven't thought about it rubbing against/catching the clothing... that's a good point. Although I didn't realize they were "sticky", I would imagine more of a leather-like feel? (never used anything custom like that before)

I guess I need to go shoot it some more in its original form, see if I may be able to pull off longer-time practice without failures AND without hurting the hand...

The CM9 is not completely off the table either, it's just that the size/weight difference is noticeable... But CM9 is just about perfect in every other way, including being cheaper and using cheaper ammo (9mm vs 380), and the standard handle/grips are just fine on it.

Sorry to wonder a bit off the topic, -- just thinking out loud. Trying to make The Decision :) before next weekend (before that show...)

[JFootin]

Thanks; haven't thought about it rubbing against/catching the clothing... that's a good point. Although I didn't realize they were "sticky", I would imagine more of a leather-like feel? (never used anything custom like that before)

I guess I need to go shoot it some more in its original form, see if I may be able to pull off longer-time practice without failures AND without hurting the hand...

The CM9 is not completely off the table either, it's just that the size/weight difference is noticeable... But CM9 is just about perfect in every other way, including financially (both the gun and the practice ammo), and the standard grips are just fine on it.

Sorry to wonder a bit off the topic, -- just thinking out loud. Trying to make The Decision :) before next weekend (before that show...)

I guess sticky is the wrong word. Maybe tacky? No. All I mean is the feel of rubber - non slippery. My electric shaver has rubber panels on it. No telling how many times I would have dropped it without those panels. That is why rubber is so popular for grips.

Heck. Get the Hogue. Just a few dollars and it can be taken off easier than getting it on.

[AlbinLee]

If you want a better purchase on the gun, but don't want the rubberized grips to get caught in the pocket, you should consider the Talon grips. They make a rubber style grip, which you apply to the frame, and I prefer them over the other options out there. First of all, they are very thin, so do not add to the carry size of the gun (width-wise). Also, they are made of a harder, less "sticky" rubber, so that they do not get caught on clothing. They do add a good amount of traction, even though they are harder, and less tacky. Do a Bing and look them up, they have good prices, great CS, and I have their rubber grip on my CW9. Matter of fact, I have their sandpaper variety on my Glock 34 for USPSA. That set has seen pouring down rain, gun solvents, rubbing alcohol, and still doesn't peel up around the edges. Great product.

[Cookster]

Similar to Talon Grips, you may want to try some skateboard (non-slip) tape. You can use as little or as much as you need.

[Dmitri]

Thanks guys.

I've read good things about the Talon grips, but my problem isn't that it's slippery -- it's that the grip isn't big enough... As I mentioned in the OP, I'm trying to see if some thickness might be added to the handle so that it would feel closer to CM9... Or maybe this is a really stupid/futile idea...(?)

The tape suggestion sounds really good because it would allow me to regulate the thickness.

[Tinman507]

The Hogue JR is still one of the best options IMHO. Certainly cheap enough to try out.

[JFootin]

The Hogue JR is still one of the best options IMHO. Certainly cheap enough to try out.

+1. And think of this: get the tape, or hockey tape which is cloth, and use it undeneath the Hogue grip for whatever further enhancement you might need, for instance on the backstrap to increase trigger reach for large hands or long fingers. Using the Hogue will cover up whatever layers of tape you add and produce a nice, neat appearance. Ta da! :D

[Dmitri]

Thanks; appreciate the help!

Haven't even thought about putting tape underneath a rubber grip... :o

I think at this point (after yet more research), the decision to get P380 (instead of CM9) has been finalized. It's gonna cost me, but I think it'll be worth it in the end, because I'll be able to ALWAYS take that awesome little thing with me. And at short range (which would be the intended use), .380 +P rounds should have enough power to get things done.

So... after I get it (next weekend I hope!), I'll get the Hogues and play around with these things and once I've got it figured out/found what worked best, will probably post an update, just in case anyone else might be having a similar issue (long finders vs. small handle)

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!

[DKD]

I concur with most here on the use of the Hogue Jr. rubber grips. I use them on both of my PM9 & PM45 and just love the way the grip feels in my hand.
They will fill your hands better, and eliminate the cheesw grater handle. Now as for pocket carry with the rubber grip, I have no problems with it at all, because as you reach in your pocket you have your fingers around the grip anyway so it doesn't really rub on your pocket linning. Just practise your draw technique,

Never tried it on the P380, but I probably will after I pick up my p380 this afternoon.

[Dmitri]

UPDATE:

The gun show I had hopes for didn't deliver... So I ordered it from grabagun.com and got it yesterday. 50 rounds of Winchester white box FMJ, -- no problems whatsoever! I was hoping for this outcome, but was still prepared for a bunch of initial failures, after having read about all the troubles some folks had with theirs... Another lucky one I guess! At least so far. The only prep work I did was to work the slide a bit, maybe 60-80 times or so. Opened it up -- there was plenty of lube there already, and it looked fairly clean, so I didn't so anything else with it and went straight to the range.

So back to the grips -- the order is still in the mail, but in the meantime I decided to improvise a bit, and wrapped it with the best thing I could muster up around the house, which was the elastic medical wrap, like this (http://www.alldaymedical.com/images/prodimages/3M1581B_PI.jpg) only white, and then wrapped that with a couple of layers of black electrical tape. Those 50 shots felt great! Added the much needed thickness to the grip, and also some softness (which didn't seem to affect the accuracy). The magazine release is fine/unaffected.

Couple of pics I snapped from my phone (sorry about the awful quality:(), to give an idea what it looks like:

http://i44.tinypic.com/29p99qx.png

http://i41.tinypic.com/xcqctf.png

When the grips I ordered come, I'll probably just slip it right on top of all of that... we'll see.

Thanks for the advice again.
Oh and... YEY!! :cool: :)

[jjmc2001]

I have the Hogue JR grip sleeve and have no problems at all in my front pocket with a Bear Creek holster. I think it makes it much easier to hold while shooting. No offense but it is a shame to put that electrical tape on shuc a pretty gun.

[kerby9mm]

When you take that tape off it might be a good idea to find some electrical tape glue remover that won't damage or discolor the polymer. The sooner the better. Hint Hint

[Bawanna]

Hopefully the medical tape underneath the electrical tape will prevent most of the sticky residue. I don't think the medical stuff leaves sticky behind.

I do hate electrical tape left over residue.

Goof Off works really good to get that stuff off. I've also used armor all on grip sleeves that got sticky. Don't want to over do it and make them slippery but just take the tackiness away.

[Cokeman]

Sweet! Another one that shoots WWB.

I got used to the small grip really quick. You should try it without the tape.

[Dmitri]

Oh man... You people are making me ashamed for all these terrible things I've done with it... :)


Hopefully the medical tape underneath the electrical tape will prevent most of the sticky residue. I don't think the medical stuff leaves sticky behind.
That's correct, the electrical tape has almost no contact with the surface, and the other tape is almost like stretchy cloth... Completely neutral.


I do hate electrical tape left over residue.
Yeah, I know how painful that stuff is... Not impossible to get it off though.


I got used to the small grip really quick. You should try it without the tape.
You know what, I'll give it another shot. It's just that my fingers are long... But I'll try again.

Thanks guys.