PM45 Issue?

[elars2]

Hi, new to forums and new to Kahr. Brand new PM45. 50 rounds shot, and when I cleaned it, I noticed some of the metal on the slide between the recoil spring and barrel ports has broken away. Already secured an RA from Kahr and I'm shipping it back next week, just curious if this is an isolated issue or common with the PM45. Other than that, love it! Very accurate!

[In-Yo-Grill]

Hi, new to forums and new to Kahr. Brand new PM45. 50 rounds shot, and when I cleaned it, I noticed some of the metal on the slide between the recoil spring and barrel ports has broken away. Already secured an RA from Kahr and I'm shipping it back next week, just curious if this is an isolated issue or common with the PM45. Other than that, love it! Very accurate!

I've never seen that before. Did you inspect it before shooting it? Just wondering if it was already there from the factory. I suspect they would just replace the slide for that one.

[elars2]

yeah, sure did. Certainly wasn't like that new, and there were small bits of metal that had broken off inside the slide upon disassembly after only 50 rds. That area is just so thin...Thanks for your reply.

[In-Yo-Grill]

How did your shooting session go? Did you like the way it felt?

[elars2]

Other than this issue, I love it! 1st .45 (purchased for carry). I found it very easy to shoot for such a large caliber and small frame...I just have to ship it back to them now which is unfortunate. Hopefully they will rectify it for me. Generally speaking, how's there customer service?

[Vinikahr]

Never seen that before.
Definitely, to send back.
Hope things work out.
What kind of ammo you used?

[getsome]

Hi elars2, never seen that issue before but I'm kinda new to Kahrs but as for the customer service, it's top notch...A fellow named Ian with the Kahr service dept is a real good guy and will go out of his way to help you with a problem...Sorry this happened so soon after purchase but they will make it right for you....Welcome to the forum...I'm sorta new here too but you will make many friends here...Just watch out for that Dietrich guy....he thinks he is normble!!! stick around and you will see what I mean...:D

[jfmay]

Hi, new to forums and new to Kahr. Brand new PM45. 50 rounds shot, and when I cleaned it, I noticed some of the metal on the slide between the recoil spring and barrel ports has broken away. Already secured an RA from Kahr and I'm shipping it back next week, just curious if this is an isolated issue or common with the PM45. Other than that, love it! Very accurate!

__________________________________________________ _______________
I had some early issues with mine but they replaced the upper and everything is fine. Yesterday I was cleaning my PM 45 and noticed a small chip of the of metal from the left guide rail gone. About the size of pen point. I'm going to contact customer support. Let us know how you make out.

[willyfast]

I've had a similar problem w/my PM45. Similar in that the leading edge of the polymer frame where the slide engages [travels] was being eaten up by the metal slide slamming into it with each shot. When cleaning gun after each shooting, I would find small fragments. I finally returned gun to Kahr when a larger piece broke but was still partially attached. Kahr's fix was to remove frame material until they got back to undamaged polymer. Then both frame rails were modified to match. Not convinced the gun was fixed, I haven't shot it since. Since the slide rams into this area with every shot, how much more damage followed by removal/repair before gun reliability is questionable? I'm no gunsmith, but this just isn't right, especially with a high $$$ pistol.

[In-Yo-Grill]

Other than this issue, I love it! 1st .45 (purchased for carry). I found it very easy to shoot for such a large caliber and small frame...I just have to ship it back to them now which is unfortunate. Hopefully they will rectify it for me. Generally speaking, how's there customer service?

Their CS is top notch. You won't be disappointed.

[jfmay]

Not acceptable solution in my opinion. The lower should be replaced! That's what I want.

[willyfast]

I've had a similar problem w/my PM45. Similar in that the leading edge of the polymer frame where the slide engages [travels] was being eaten up by the metal slide slamming into it with each shot. When cleaning gun after each shooting, I would find small fragments. I finally returned gun to Kahr when a larger piece broke but was still partially attached. Kahr's fix was to remove frame material until they got back to undamaged polymer. Then both frame rails were modified to match. Not convinced the gun was fixed, I haven't shot it since. Since the slide rams into this area with every shot, how much more damage followed by removal/repair before gun reliability is questionable? I'm no gunsmith, but this just isn't right, especially with a high $$$ pistol.
In my haste to air a grievance, I neglected to say what a nice carry piece the PM45 is and amazingly accurate.

[jocko]

Hi, new to forums and new to Kahr. Brand new PM45. 50 rounds shot, and when I cleaned it, I noticed some of the metal on the slide between the recoil spring and barrel ports has broken away. Already secured an RA from Kahr and I'm shipping it back next week, just curious if this is an isolated issue or common with the PM45. Other than that, love it! Very accurate!

totally unacceptable. The entire gun should go back. You should recallthem and ask for IAN and send him that photo by email etc, . You should not hav eto pay to send it back. They should issue a pre paid pickup on that gun. You should insist on it to. or otherwise you will be out about $40 for shipping over night to them.

In this case especially, this is a total defective gun and they shold bare the brunt of paying shipping both ways. Its your call, but I certainly would not take no for an answer either... As they will pay to pick it up but certainly volunteer it either.. You need to talk to the right person to..

[jocko]

Never seen that before.
Definitely, to send back.
Hope things work out.
What kind of ammo you used?

have caused it. It is a bad slide and probably barrel also...

[elars2]

Never seen that before.
Definitely, to send back.
Hope things work out.
What kind of ammo you used?

Ammo was Magtech. Nothing special...

[hsart]

Last two times out with my PM45 I noticed some small black shards... very small ... on my forearm. At first I thought that it was just powder (the Federal 230gr FMJ seems to run pretty dirty), but after reading this thread I wonder whether it could be from the polymer. Will take a magnifying glass once I take it down and see whether it could be polymer shards and report if I see a problem.

[elars2]

totally unacceptable. The entire gun should go back. You should recallthem and ask for IAN and send him that photo by email etc, . You should not hav eto pay to send it back. They should issue a pre paid pickup on that gun. You should insist on it to. or otherwise you will be out about $40 for shipping over night to them.

In this case especially, this is a total defective gun and they shold bare the brunt of paying shipping both ways. Its your call, but I certainly would not take no for an answer either... As they will pay to pick it up but certainly volunteer it either.. You need to talk to the right person to..

I hear ya...Actually it is Ian who I was in email contact with...Sent him the photo I've attached here as well. Initial response was that this is the way it was machined...But I replied that this is certainly not machined due to the roughness. But totally quick replies, and promptly got an RA# from them. Not too worried about the shipping cost, just want this brand new piece to be correct! I'm certainly not firing this thing again until they check it out. Not sure, but I'm betting it's somehow coming into contact with the spring, and that is not a good thing.

[jocko]

elars2

PM sent.

[OneRudeDog]

I feel your pain.
I had a chip of metal come off after 200 rds.
sent it back to Kahr. They said they replaced the barrel but the barrel that came back with it has this corner rounded off.
Sure looks like it was polished out instead of being replaced.:confused:
I will be calling Kahr next week.

[OneRudeDog]

Here is another view.

[jocko]

Here is another view.

They indeed did polish that sharp corner off. Thats what should have been done before the barrel was ever put int he gun. Whatyou had alot also get as that portion comes to a kinda sharp point and no doubt that point is weakest on the end and it is hit about every time with the brass upon ejection, causing a burr like edge.

My PM9 did that, MY P380 did that. I filed the burr off and smoothed it down with fine paper and it has never come back, It really does nothing one way or the other to hinder reliability. Some never have this issue as the brass somehow is not hitting upon ejection. Those that do, should IMO just smooth it out and continue on. As once that pointed corner/edge or whatever is rounded off, it will stop forever. I have over 25,000 rounds out of my PM9 andnot a mark or burr has ever come back in that area.

No doubt if the barrel or gun is sent back to kahr they will do what they did to yours.

[OneRudeDog]

They indeed did polish that sharp corner off. Thats what should have been done before the barrel was ever put int he gun. Whatyou had alot also get as that portion comes to a kinda sharp point and no doubt that point is weakest on the end and it is hit about every time with the brass upon ejection, causing a burr like edge.



Thanks for the info jocko. I too have a PM9 & a P380. I have not noticed it as much on these two. PM9 has been flawless 100% reliable right out of the box. 1200 rds no issues even during break in. P380 issues too numerous to mention. They replaced slide, Slide Stop spring. Polished feed ramp,slide stop, ejector. Now flawless as well.

I tend to agree with you that the PM 45 will function just fine although I have not had the chance to go to the range and run it.

The main beef I have is that Kahr said "REPLACED BARREL" and it does not look like it was replaced. Why didn't they say rounded and polished corner?

Glad to here you have 25,000 rds thru the PM9. :D

[SantaFe]

I've had my PM45 for over a year and am very happy with it as a dependable carry pistol. I shot 200 rds for break-in as they suggested and the worst that happened was the nuckle on my thumb got "skinned" by the corner of the grip. No jams, no FTF or FTE. Very accurate too with the excellent trigger. I had no signs of plastic shaving or metal chipping. Just lucky, I guess.

Big problem is that they still haven't come out with their continually promised 6 rd magazine specifically for the PM45. You can use the 6 rd for other models but it looks stupid.

Also, I've had problems finding a good assortment of holsters to fit the PM45. Most holster makers try to sell you a P45 holster saying it will fit. It does, sorta. Best I've found comes from American Pride Leather and I had to soak it and insert my plastic wrapped pistol in it until dried and it now fits perfectly. I clamped a rubber-covered clamp on trigger portion to get a snap fit of the trigger to hold it in better. It was $31, a bargain.

Home. American Pride Leather Company, Gun Holsters and Leather Products (http://www.americanprideleather.com)

[elars2]

I've had my PM45 for over a year and am very happy with it as a dependable carry pistol. I shot 200 rds for break-in as they suggested and the worst that happened was the nuckle on my thumb got "skinned" by the corner of the grip. No jams, no FTF or FTE. Very accurate too with the excellent trigger. I had no signs of plastic shaving or metal chipping. Just lucky, I guess.

Big problem is that they still haven't come out with their continually promised 6 rd magazine specifically for the PM45. You can use the 6 rd for other models but it looks stupid.

Also, I've had problems finding a good assortment of holsters to fit the PM45. Most holster makers try to sell you a P45 holster saying it will fit. It does, sorta. Best I've found comes from American Pride Leather and I had to soak it and insert my plastic wrapped pistol in it until dried and it now fits perfectly. I clamped a rubber-covered clamp on trigger portion to get a snap fit of the trigger to hold it in better. It was $31, a bargain.

Home. American Pride Leather Company, Gun Holsters and Leather Products (http://www.americanprideleather.com)

You might check their site again, I recently ordered 2 of those 6 round magazines specifically for the PM45. Little spendy, but I received them in about a week.

[jocko]

I am specualiting on the barrel also. Indeed they might have replaced it and did the things to it before seinding it out that iMO should have been done. I have always felt that tip in that area of the shroud should be rounded andnotleft like manyare. If the brass casing never hit it that is fine but some do. the extractor has alot to do witht he angle of the brass existingthat small opening and if they hit that rounded corner nothing will show Mine is likeyour "new" barrel now andit is perfect .. I don't think I would loose any sleep over this but YMMV.

[Esmanolo]

Everyone brace yourself for what I am about to tell you.

Yesterday I shot my PM45 for the first time. I put 205 rounds through it.
(Remington Ball Ammo) ( I inspected and lubed it properly before shooting)
It malfunctioned several times ( FTF ) and the slide wouldn't close all the way on a fresh mag.

I have the exact same problem as ELARS2. A piece of metal broke off the slide in the exact same spot. The casings marked my slide on the inside and out.

I just inspected my barrel and have the same problem as OneRudeDog.
That little piece in the corner has an indention + the bottom of the feed ramp is really rough and has noticeable edges on it.

On top of that there are pieces of polymer coming off the front part of the frame where the bottom of the slide rests and pieces coming off the front of the left rail.

The slide stop is also very sharp.

I will be getting in touch with Kahr tomorrow morning.
Frankly I am very disappointed, i had read the reviews about Kahrs malfunctioning but never expected this. I hope that they can fix it as I love the size and weight of the pistol.

Thanks Guys

[Esmanolo]

Here are the rest of the pictures.

[jfmay]

Hi, new to forums and new to Kahr. Brand new PM45. 50 rounds shot, and when I cleaned it, I noticed some of the metal on the slide between the recoil spring and barrel ports has broken away. Already secured an RA from Kahr and I'm shipping it back next week, just curious if this is an isolated issue or common with the PM45. Other than that, love it! Very accurate!
__________________________________________________ ______________

Here are the pixs of my lower. Note the small chip on the left guide rail. I was told that is put there on purpose as a point of reference by Kahr. Also, as for the tiny metal chips....normal too. Do you guys have that chip on your guide rails???

[wyntrout]

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Here are the pixs of my lower. Note the small chip on the left guide rail. I was told that is put there on purpose as a point of reference by Kahr. Also, as for the tiny metal chips....normal too. Do you guys have that chip on your guide rails???
All polymer framed guns have the "Witness marks" Manual page 15, right column, Step 2, photo 3 covers this:
http://www.kahr.com/DL/kahrmanual.pdf
I failed to RT#M the first time I tried to take my PM9 apart as I do my K9 -- different!
Wynn:o

[jocko]

totally a bad gun, the entire things needs to go back to kahr. no excuses for that kind of product toleave thebuilding IMO. call kahr and definitely insist they pick up the shipping tab. If youcan send them those photos that should reinsure themt hat they have a bad gun. Ask for IAN at kahr. don't take no for an answer as to the shipping charges. The gun is new, the gun is bad. they will take care of it but other than time you should be out nothing more either..

[Esmanolo]

Thanks for all of your help Jocko.
I just hope that they have a quick turnaround time.

[wyntrout]

Darn. I was talking about the outside marks, I missed that chunk out of the inner left rail!
Wynn:rolleyes:

Correction: jfmay, yes, my PM9 has the same notch on the inner left rail. Pix in later post.

[elars2]

Update on original post: Received it 3 days after I shipped it. They machined the damaged area out of the slide (did not replace it according to the work order) test fired and sent it back. Props to Kahr for an incredibly fast turnaround, but I was suprised they didn't just replace the slide. Any other pm45 owners have a machined notch where the damage is shown in my first post?

[wyntrout]

Elars2, I just broke down my PM9 and looked at that notch. I think maybe your "notch" wasn't completely machined originally and the extra metal broke loose. Look at the notch in my slide. I put paper behind it to make it easier to see. Mine looks like yours probably does now, so maybe they completely a missed step. Your picture shows the metal very thin there, where the notch is supposed to be. My guess is that it was too thin and wasn't supposed to be there anyhow.
Does this look better now and make you feel better?
Wynn:)

Also, jfmay, I noticed the little gap or notch in my inner left rail that I remarked on your gun as not normal. I hadn't paid any attention to the inner notch.:o

[jocko]

Update on original post: Received it 3 days after I shipped it. They machined the damaged area out of the slide (did not replace it according to the work order) test fired and sent it back. Props to Kahr for an incredibly fast turnaround, but I was suprised they didn't just replace the slide. Any other pm45 owners have a machined notch where the damage is shown in my first post?

the main thing is that it is now Ok and it should work OK, Probably better off with your original slide in that no new break in is needed to mate the slide withthe lwoer part either. cetainly looked like a maching process that sliipped through quality control. being it was a process thaty missed, I would have seen no reaosn for total replacement unless it would have been a cost factor....

[jfmay]

All polymer framed guns have the "Witness marks" Manual page 15, right column, Step 2, photo 3 covers this:
http://www.kahr.com/DL/kahrmanual.pdf
I failed to RT#M the first time I tried to take my PM9 apart as I do my K9 -- different!
Wynn:o
__________________________________________________ __________

I'm not talking about the slide or frame witness marks. I'm talking about the chip or mark on the guide rail inside the frame. Are you referencing the same? Look at my picxs.

[wyntrout]

Yes. Look at my first photo above. The left inside rail has the same notch.
Wynn

[deadhead1971]

First of all, I do not have a PM45.

I have had some peening and chipping of metal on the inside of the slide where the barrel hood hits the front of the slide (PM9). I have never mentioned this before because it's not a problem. It must have happened within the first 100 or 200 rounds. It chipped to a point and then stopped. It's noticable but it's minor and on the inside where you can't see it when the gun is assembled. I have 985 rounds now with no more peening. It's not getting any worse. I can post photos if anyone really wants to see it.

RUDEDOG--my Pm9 barrel is bent a little on that corner where it hits the slide. It is not getting any worse. I have had 2 PM9 barrels and both did it (dented on the top back end).

[wyntrout]

I think most of the Kahr barrels have some high points that get peened down with use -- part of the breaking in, but some are more than that from the posted photos. My barrels, especially the PM9, have a little here and there, but not problematic. It's a busy little space inside the slide during firing and recoil and resetting everything.:)
Wynn

[jfmay]

Yes. Look at my first photo above. The left inside rail has the same notch.
Wynn

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Wyntrout, I see it now and feel much better. Thanks!!! JFMAY

[Esmanolo]

I talked to Ian at Kahr this morning. He gave me instructions and I dropped off my PM45 at FedEx. He said that the turnaround time would be like 2 weeks.

Thanks again Jocko.

[wyntrout]

_____________________________________________

Wyntrout, I see it now and feel much better. Thanks!!! JFMAY

You're welcome. I'm glad the PM9 is so easy to break down -- no tools! I think that a lot of us learned something about the "notch" that should be there! I'm glad that you got it fixed quickly. It IS disturbing that things like that get through QC.:(
Wynn:)

[Krusty]

My barrel is crunched at the same spot ,something is out of tolerance. It shouldn't affect function though,I hope.

[gb6491]

My barrel is crunched at the same spot ,something is out of tolerance. It shouldn't affect function though,I hope.
Krusty,
It won't affect function, but you might want to clean up that spot with some sort of abrasive tool: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15876&postcount=11
Regards,
Greg