First TERRIBLE range report

[bandrich]

Wow what a terrible first range visit with this new CM9. Did all the prep as talked about on this fine forum.

From the first mag to last mag 4 of 6 rounds in each mag stuck the slide back. I would wack it with the palm of my hand it would go into battery and the next round same thing (except for the two at different times that would work). I need help. When the gun finally fired I found it to be very accuate however. I don't want to give up on it yet but I am a bit upset to say the least.

100 rounds of American Eagle - 100 rounds of WWB and 25 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense. All 115g. :mad::mad::confused::confused:

[skiflydive]

IMO, and there are many others more expert than me, make sure the slide stop "arm" is under the slide stop spring and not on top of it. The spring holds the slide stop down until the metal button on the mag follower physically pushes the slide stop up against the spring pressure and allows the stop to capture the notch in the slide.

Take a peek at the breakdown video on the Kahr site.

[bandrich]

The folks at Kahr are very nice they are sending me a PREPAID shipping label to send it back to Kahr. I will be without it for awhile but that is fine. My luck... I get one of the small % of dud's. I am lucky in other things however. :crazy:

[Bear549]

Hang in there. A lot of us have been in the same boat. Once you get it running, you will love it.

[bandrich]

Thanks Bear549 I appreciate the kind words. I would be more upset if this gun was not so darn "spot on". Very accuate. Made me look like a better shooter than I am.

[PYROhafe]

did you try skyflydive's advice before sending it back? or check to make sure that your grip wasnt hitting the slide release, causing it to lock back early?

[bandrich]

My pretty little CM is on its way back to the factory already. Dropped at Fedex on their nickle. We will see how long she is gone. Oh well got plenty of CC's laying around the house. Life goes on. As the world turns. Blah Blah. :hurt::hurt:

[CJB]

My guess... less time than you think. They totally rebuilt my PM45, had it back to me... two weeks.

[KABOOKIE]

Your malfunction sounds very similar to what some of us have. By my count you're #5 on this board alone that has had this problem. Others will have you believe this is a very extremely rare problem. However, it appears Kahr has some challenges going on with recent cm9 production.

Here's a post that you can read through it and see if some of what we experienced sounds familiar.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10809

[wagon]

Bandrich / Kabookie: what is the test firing date of your CM9? (or first 4 digit of your serial?).

I just bought "new old stocK" from the first run (serial is IN06xx ==> April 2011).

Just want to set some expectation here... Thanks!

[KABOOKIE]

IO08xx

[bandrich]

I0138x

[bandrich]

Your malfunction sounds very similar to what some of us have. By my count you're #5 on this board alone that has had this problem. Others will have you believe this is a very extremely rare problem. However, it appears Kahr has some challenges going on with recent cm9 production.

Here's a post that you can read through it and see if some of what we experienced sounds familiar.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10809

Thanks for posting the thread Kabookie. That is exactly what was going on with me even to the round count. Thanks again. I am not nuts or ? This really happens to people. :mad:

[wagon]

Kabookie / Bandrich: there are only 3 entries of CM9 on the consolidated list .. there are more additional entries but not yet combined to the main list, and I cannot go thru each posts one by one.. anyway, yours would be post 9/2011 production. Just for ref: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1332374

IN10xx - CM9 - Date unknown Purchased May 2011
IN29xx - CM9 - June 2011
IN67xx - CM9 - Date unknown Purchased Sept 2011

[yqtszhj]

I'm IN17xx. I bought it about June of 2011 so that looks about right for me. 700+ flawless rounds. I only had 1 or 2 snags in the first 75 rounds and I think that was me.

By the way, hang in there. when it comes back it should be good and then you're gonna LOVE IT.

[Tinman507]

I'm IN29XX purchased July 4, 2011. Have over 1000 rounds. Had 2 FTF in the very beginning. Had a couple of 7rnd mag issues in the beginning. After breakin, flawless. Hang in there. It absolutely gets better.

[entoptics]

If the palm whack worked, it's probably not the slide release. More likely a magazine or feed ramp problem. Maybe recoil spring.

Glad they're fixing it for you. Bummer it was a new gun. I had a bit of trouble with my CW9 when I got it, but it seems to be OK now. It's not Glock reliable, but I wouldn't be nervous to take it into a gun fight if it was clean.

[Hognutz]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that your slide stop needs some filing down. I had the same issue with a PM9. It would shoot FMJ's all day, but wouldn't shoot a Gold Dot. I sent mine in and had it back the next week. It is ready to rock, now..Kahr will take good care of you, and you will have it back before the time that they said..Good luck..Mike

[GratefulGuy1234]

I am really sorry to hear of your experience, that sucks! It makes my 8 mostly nose dive failures out of 325 rounds sound 'Glock reliable' in comparison.

I hope you get it back quick. I second the comment about accuracy - these things are SPOT ON. I love that about it no doubt. I have the trijicon night sights on mine that the factory installed... not sure if you are interested in having them but you never know they may install them for free if you ask while it's there. I love them on it, and the front sight is metal.

Enjoy -
Scott

[Deano]

Mine was the same. A couple of simple mods to the mag and it's now flawless. I doubt seriously that the gun itself has a problem. The 7 round mags are especially problematic. If it comes back with the same problem, try the mag mod here (post #12):http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943&page=2
I'd guess the follower is the problem in most of these reports like yours. It feeds the next bullet nose down and jams under the feed ramp. Fix this simple problem and kahr customer service would eliminate lots of headaches, and have a lot of very happy customers.

[bandrich]

Mine was the same. A couple of simple mods to the mag and it's now flawless. I doubt seriously that the gun itself has a problem. The 7 round mags are especially problematic. If it comes back with the same problem, try the mag mod here (post #12):http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943&page=2
I'd guess the follower is the problem in most of these reports like yours. It feeds the next bullet nose down and jams under the feed ramp. Fix this simple problem and kahr customer service would eliminate lots of headaches, and have a lot of very happy customers.

I understand what your saying about the mag mod. But why does a consumer have to pay pretty good money for a CM9 and mod a number of things for it to work correctly. Makes no sense to me. Now I will be without the firearm for three weeks or so. :mad:

[wlc]

I understand what your saying about the mag mod. But why does a consumer have to pay pretty good money for a CM9 and mod a number of things for it to work correctly. Makes no sense to me. Now I will be without the firearm for three weeks or so. :mad:


You shouldn't have to do mods to get a reliable gun. When a Kahr works properly, they are really great. Good trigger for a SD gun, accurate, and easy to conceal.
Unfortunately, their QC doesn't seem to be very good. I read enough to decide that even if I got one with problems, it could be made to work right. I bought one, against the advise of a friend who had lots of issues with his. Mine needed a couple of replacement parts, which they sent promptly, and has worked well since. I bought a second Kahr (CM9) and it has had no issues. On the bright side, their CS is great if you need it.

[Ikeo74]

They must have worked out the problem by the time I bought mine. IN66xx. I haven't had any problems except when I used weak ammo, which is what I think your problem was. Plus the new recoil springs need a little chasise grease instead of just oil until after the break-in.

[bandrich]

They must have worked out the problem by the time I bought mine. IN66xx. I haven't had any problems except when I used weak ammo, which is what I think your problem was. Plus the new recoil springs need a little chasise grease instead of just oil until after the break-in.

What ammo should I use when I get it back? I used American Eagle 115g and WWB 115g and Hornandy Critical Defense first time through.

[Ikeo74]

What ammo should I use when I get it back? I used American Eagle 115g and WWB 115g and Hornandy Critical Defense first time through.
Try this ammo or something of the same quality. Stellier & Bellot http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=9mm+ammunition&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products&x=17&y=9

And put some auto lube greese on the springs, not axle grease. it is too stiff.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Sellier-Bellot174-9mm-115-gr-FMJ-Ammunition-150-Per-50/1199040.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3D searchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProduc ts%26Ntt%3D9mm%2Bammunition%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BS earch-All%2BProducts%26x%3D17%26y%3D9&Ntt=9mm+ammunition&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

[Deano]

I understand what your saying about the mag mod. But why does a consumer have to pay pretty good money for a CM9 and mod a number of things for it to work correctly. Makes no sense to me. Now I will be without the firearm for three weeks or so. :mad:I agree with you 100%. I just figured it was easy enough to sand down the follower. If it doesn't work, you're out a 50 cent part, if it does work, you save two or three weeks without your gun. It happened to work for me, but I totally agree that they should not be selling products that we have to modify to get them to function properly.

[TriggerMan]

Try this ammo or something of the same quality. Stellier & Bellot http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=9mm+ammunition&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products&x=17&y=9

And put some auto lube greese on the springs, not axle grease. it is too stiff.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Sellier-Bellot174-9mm-115-gr-FMJ-Ammunition-150-Per-50/1199040.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3D searchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProduc ts%26Ntt%3D9mm%2Bammunition%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BS earch-All%2BProducts%26x%3D17%26y%3D9&Ntt=9mm+ammunition&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
I wouldn't use S&B 115 gr to solve a probblem caused by underpowered rounds. S&B is underpowered and acts up in my Nano. I use American Eagle 124 grain FMJ or Federal HST 124 gr JHP

The American Eagle 124 gr cost me $195 for 1000 rounds, plus $19.xx shipping

[Ikeo74]

I agree with you 100%. I just figured it was easy enough to sand down the follower. If it doesn't work, you're out a 50 cent part, if it does work, you save two or three weeks without your gun. It happened to work for me, but I totally agree that they should not be selling products that we have to modify to get them to function properly.
This is my opinion only. If you use mid range ammo (not the cheapest stuff you can find) and not the Self Defense ammo to break in your gun you will not have to do any mag alterations. My mags are stock and work perfect. And I have both a 6 round and a 7 round mag. It's an ammo problem!
Note...When you load your mags be sure to push each bullet back into the mag until it touches the back of the frame.

[jerstolp]

no, it IS a mag problem.. there are probs with certain hp ammo but fmj should feed flawlessly. if sanding the follower fixes the probs ,as it does with "most" guns its a mag /follower prob.

[PYROhafe]

Sorry bout the problems. Can't wait for u to get it back n fall in love with it. Mine is serial # IO10XX and I haven't had a single problem in the 300+ rounds of wwb, federal, and remmington (all 115gr) so I hope they get it right for ya!

[Ikeo74]

no, it IS a mag problem.. there are probs with certain hp ammo but fmj should feed flawlessly. if sanding the follower fixes the probs ,as it does with "most" guns its a mag /follower prob.
Don't you think Kahr has an engineering department to address flaws in their products? If it was a mag follower problem, they would have made the change a long time ago. It seems to me the mags must work perfectly in their product developement department. If they didn't, the mag follower would have been changed in 15 minutes. I am not convienced that it is the mag at fault, and evidently Kahr feels that way too. Remember the PM9 and CM9 are a unique sized pistol and tolerances are extremely tight.

[jocko]

I tend to agree with Ikeo74 on this, because one can do something to his magazine to make them work in his gun is not indicative of a problem with all mags, whih we know 99%have no isues with at all. If it takes a certain mod to make something work in ones gun, then go for it, but I would not say it is a fix fo rall, as again most have no issues at all with factory mags or what ever. IMO one can do a mod to a magazine to get his gun tyo work right but possbly what ur doing is over riding the real issue which could be something else causing it. People have been doing these fix mods for a long time on other gns also and if they work for yourgun, thenindeed u did right. I just would not push the envelope to tell all to do these mods at all, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. Just sayin/.

[Replay13]

I'm not sure if its a mag problem or a feed ramp problem or what, but I would like to know where you get your 99% perfect numbers Jocko. I know of several here that have had nose dive jams with the 7 round mag, myself included. It seems like a real problem to me, but they keep shipping out the PM9's with the same 7 round mag.
James

[jocko]

more than likely a figure I pulled out of my head. ur reading of a very few owners here who have kahrs out of the over hundreds of thousands of kahrs out in the market.

I did post a survery a few eeeks ago about the 7 round mag thing and someone was nice enough to make a poll out of it, If u look it up. u willf ind that it is not a problem Like I had ever thought it was... It might be oly 98% of 99% to. feel free to come up with your stats. I think my point was it is not a problem like we think and I myself thought it was.

[michpatriot]

Send it to Kahr they'll make it right...

[Replay13]

Send it to Kahr they'll make it right...

Kahr customer service was excellent, and that is the most important thing in my books.

[Deano]

This is my opinion only. If you use mid range ammo (not the cheapest stuff you can find) and not the Self Defense ammo to break in your gun you will not have to do any mag alterations. My mags are stock and work perfect. And I have both a 6 round and a 7 round mag. It's an ammo problem!
Note...When you load your mags be sure to push each bullet back into the mag until it touches the back of the frame.
First of all, the gun was already broken in before I bought the 7 round mags. I already had racked it 500 times and put 300 rounds through it. Then I bought the spare 7 rounders. Trust me, it is the mag that's the problem. I know how to properly load them, and the jams happen ONLY with the 7 round mag, and with ANY ammo loaded into them. I've used Federal, Fiocchi, Winchester, Hornady and Remington both FMJ, Hollow point, 115 gr. and 124 gr. It DOES NOT matter which I use, the 7 round mag jammed 100% of the time, and the six round mag shoots flawlessly. I know to some it might be a difficult concept to grasp, but there is a problem with the 7 round mags, at least the two I got. Others have reported the same thing. It is NOT the ammo.

[yqtszhj]

What ammo should I use when I get it back? I used American Eagle 115g and WWB 115g and Hornandy Critical Defense first time through.

AE ammo should work fine. My CM9 has had no problems with whatever I shoot and it has 700+ rounds. If you get it back and you have a problem let us know. It should run fine when it returns. I'll have to agree with Jocko's regular statement that Kahr 9mm and up guns are not ammo sensitive when using factory american ammo.

Now the P380... that's another thing :rolleyes:

[jerstolp]

ther is numerous probs with the mags. #1 the followers #2 splitting, my pm40 had numerous probs till i modded the follower. left the other stock the stock had prob's, ie second rnd always nd'd, the modded worked flawlessly. then in under 250 rnds my stock mag cracked in the upper right rear corner... so there mags are quite a prob imho. i love the gun and got rid of my 3rd100% flawless g27 to keep it, so i m not a hater. but im not gunna kiss kahrs ass either. they need to fix there little issues, for at least $100-150 more than a glock you shouldn't have to rack the slide 500 friggen times, expect failures in the first 300 rnds, sand your followers and the other things to get them running rite. all my glocks have been flawless rite out of the box, out of about 15 of them ive had 1 g26 hade 2 fte's dont know why, it was well used. now please dont say go get a glock then, because I LOVE my kahr pm40. just these little things kinda piss me off just as much as all the excuses that are made for them.

ps ive had a pm45 and a p9covert and had the same "little" issues..

[jerstolp]

oh yeah i just got my cb mini tuck from kahr for my pm40 and its awsome....

[JFootin]

Originally Posted by Ikeo74 http://kahrtalk.com/images/tigra/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=140327#post140327)
This is my opinion only. If you use mid range ammo (not the cheapest stuff you can find) and not the Self Defense ammo to break in your gun you will not have to do any mag alterations. My mags are stock and work perfect. And I have both a 6 round and a 7 round mag. It's an ammo problem!
Note...When you load your mags be sure to push each bullet back into the mag until it touches the back of the frame.+1. +2. And slap the back of your filled mag against your other hand, your leg, or a mouse pad or something to get every bullet back as far as it will go. I have always done this with semi-autos, but it seems especially important with the Kahrs.

BTW, I have three 6 round mags for my CM9, and they work fine without modification. I saw a couple of nose dives in the first 200 rounds, but they were clearly caused by limp wristing with WWB ammo. I am now going through 250 rounds of 124 gr FMJ bullets from USAammo.com. Really stout range ammo with a kick to it and no ftfs. My gun especially likes the 124 gr +p Gold Dots. They feed through it slicker than any other ammo I have tried, thus far. YMMV.

[GratefulGuy1234]

I am going to agree that I am not going to sand down anything on my gun to make it work correctly. This isn't a car part I am tweeking, this is a defense weapon. I have had only minimal problems that happened mostly with the cheap federal ammo from walmart. I hope I don't need to send it in, but that's the road I'm going to go if it continues to have a nose dive here and there. Sellier and Bellot seemed to be the ammo of choice for my CM9 first time out. I like the ammo so much that I plan on picking up some 115 JHP by them and try those. If they work well, I may use them for practice and carry.
Then again, I have been wanting to try gold dots. Cabelas is having a 1 cent shipping sale... :yo:

Scott

[Deano]

ther is numerous probs with the mags. #1 the followers #2 splitting, my pm40 had numerous probs till i modded the follower. left the other stock the stock had prob's, ie second rnd always nd'd, the modded worked flawlessly. then in under 250 rnds my stock mag cracked in the upper right rear corner... so there mags are quite a prob imho. i love the gun and got rid of my 3rd100% flawless g27 to keep it, so i m not a hater. but im not gunna kiss kahrs ass either. they need to fix there little issues, for at least $100-150 more than a glock you shouldn't have to rack the slide 500 friggen times, expect failures in the first 300 rnds, sand your followers and the other things to get them running rite. all my glocks have been flawless rite out of the box, out of about 15 of them ive had 1 g26 hade 2 fte's dont know why, it was well used. now please dont say go get a glock then, because I LOVE my kahr pm40. just these little things kinda piss me off just as much as all the excuses that are made for them.

ps ive had a pm45 and a p9covert and had the same "little" issues..
Agree 100%. If Glock would make a skinny compact 9mm for summer carry, I'd buy it in a second.

[jocko]

deano: No one tells u U MUST RACK THE SLIDE 500 FRIGGIN TIMES. It is merely a suggestion, no more no less..

[Deano]

+1. +2. And slap the back of your filled mag against your other hand, your leg, or a mouse pad or something to get every bullet back as far as it will go. I have always done this with semi-autos, but it seems especially important with the Kahrs...

I always do this as well. With my un-modded 7 round magazines, it did not matter. Nosedive 100% after the first fire. I handed the pistol to a more experienced shooter, just to be sure. Both mags jammed on him too. For my weapon, the problem is not the operator, not the ammo, not how it's loaded, not the slide stop, not the temperature outside, not the humidity, not the day of the week, not the gun, IT IS THE MAG.

[Deano]

deano: No one tells u U MUST RACK THE SLIDE 500 FRIGGIN TIMES. It is merely a suggestion, no more no less..Jocko, you are correct. No one told me I must do that. I read that here as a suggestion to help loosen up the slide before going to the range, and it clearly did that.

This is a great forum, filled with lots of well intended suggestions, by well meaning people to help minimize problems and contribute the the enjoyment of the whole shooting experience. In that same vein, I'm just reporting a problem with the 7 round mags that I had, and the solution that got them working well. It's not going to be a solution to everyone's problem, but there seem to be a few people here who believe that since their 7 round mag works fine, it's not possible to get a bad one. I love my CM9, I love this forum, but the 7 round mags that I got were never right.

My intent is not to slam kahr arms. It is simply to point out that some of the 7 round mags have issues. I'm hoping that others who may have the same issue might read this and realize that the problem may not be the gun, it could be the mag. That's all.

What conclusion would you draw if you fired 300 rounds through your kahr without a single problem, and then bought a new mag that jammed every time you used it? Send the gun back to the factory? I think not.

[jerstolp]

its not just the 7rnd 9mm mags.. i had the probs with both my 5rnd and 6rnd pm40 mags. untill i sanded the follower. now the cracking in the corners no amount of anything i can do will help that. sanding the follower is super easy and works great , BUT IT SHOULDNT HAVE TO BE DONE......

[jocko]

no problems on my end, This fourm has some very good and hadny j"suggestions for some who have picky issues. None should be set in stone, for I personally believe if ur magazines are givbing no issue,s THEN DO NO MODS PERIOD. Sometimes these mods especially on the 7 round magts will work, sometimes they will not. But at the worst u have just ruinded a polymer follower. At the best u might have solved ur specific issue. Most every fix talked about on this forumj have been done by the owner of a gun with that specific issue. They come on here with their fix mod and most always say, IF T AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.

I am also of the belief that one can make a mod to his gun and it works but yet the real issue has not been addressed. My point is . Let say it doesn't feed right and u grind the entire feed ramp off the gun and it works. U really have not addressed the real problem but jsut worked arund it and in ones case, if it works then, STOP and shoot it like u stole it. I have seen alot of fixes mentioned on this forum, some I would not do myself. There are small things we can do to our guns to maybe enhance reliability etc but whenu get into messing with major parts to solve ur issues and then fail. ur gonna be up sh-t creek when u send it back. I have felt if a person goes through the propper prep thread which was put together by many members hwere and if he wants to take the time to check and do all the things mentioned, then he is just enhancing his first shoot to be a total success. Would it have been ok without allthgat prep???Probably so, but whey take a chance to fokk up your first shoot by not doing some of the mundane stuff mention. We have seen mag springs out of the box in backwards. Gun won't work that way. Takie a minute to check that stuff out berfore u make an ass out of urself at the range. ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. Then when all else fails and u have give it all u can, then a call to kahr is needed and let them do what they do best FIX UR FOKKING GUN RIGHT. I am probalby a good kahr fanboi but u have never seen me defendng the 7 round mags in the cm and pm frames. course I hated the butt ugly looks of their original plastic half bottom peace, which I am told now they have change dit over, which looks 100% better. Does it work any better???I don't know.

[jerstolp]

i wont sand/grind into anything that isn't a easy/cheap part to replace. i love working on guns though, well modding, not really fixing things that shouldnt need to be fixed. and let me reiterate i love my pm40 its stuffed down my pants as i type this:)

[Deano]

no problems on my end, This fourm has some very good and hadny j"suggestions for some who have picky issues. None should be set in stone, for I personally believe if ur magazines are givbing no issue,s THEN DO NO MODS PERIOD. Sometimes these mods especially on the 7 round magts will work, sometimes they will not. But at the worst u have just ruinded a polymer follower. At the best u might have solved ur specific issue. Most every fix talked about on this forumj have been done by the owner of a gun with that specific issue. They come on here with their fix mod and most always say, IF T AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.

I am also of the belief that one can make a mod to his gun and it works but yet the real issue has not been addressed. My point is . Let say it doesn't feed right and u grind the entire feed ramp off the gun and it works. U really have not addressed the real problem but jsut worked arund it and in ones case, if it works then, STOP and shoot it like u stole it. I have seen alot of fixes mentioned on this forum, some I would not do myself. There are small things we can do to our guns to maybe enhance reliability etc but whenu get into messing with major parts to solve ur issues and then fail. ur gonna be up sh-t creek when u send it back. I have felt if a person goes through the propper prep thread which was put together by many members hwere and if he wants to take the time to check and do all the things mentioned, then he is just enhancing his first shoot to be a total success. Would it have been ok without allthgat prep???Probably so, but whey take a chance to fokk up your first shoot by not doing some of the mundane stuff mention. We have seen mag springs out of the box in backwards. Gun won't work that way. Takie a minute to check that stuff out berfore u make an ass out of urself at the range. ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION. Then when all else fails and u have give it all u can, then a call to kahr is needed and let them do what they do best FIX UR FOKKING GUN RIGHT. I am probalby a good kahr fanboi but u have never seen me defendng the 7 round mags in the cm and pm frames. course I hated the butt ugly looks of their original plastic half bottom peace, which I am told now they have change dit over, which looks 100% better. Does it work any better???I don't know.Well said. I agree.