Dreaming about a Kahr 22cal.

[Phillip]

It sure would be nice if Kahr would consider making a DAO 22cal. pistol so Kahr owners would have a cheap way to practice. Does anyone from Kahr ever visit this forum to read the wishes of their customers?
:2rolleyes:

[MLESa7990]

I'm sure it takes more than just a few people on a forum to persuade a company to design a totally new model!

[cesande]

Heck let's just go with 22 WMR !
That would be fun.... can't go with PMR30

[Bkahrfull]

This summer I purchased a Ruger 22/45 Threaded barrell. Boy is this thing fun to plink with!

[Scoundrel]

I'm sure it takes more than just a few people on a forum to persuade a company to design a totally new model!

I wonder how many responses to a poll we could drum up asking for a drop-in conversion kit to fire .22LR out of a CM9. They might listen to that.

[Alfonse]

Kahr trigger on .22, I'm in!

[chrish]

I'd buy one in a second. Drop-in/conversion for my p or tp or a full 22 pistol, I'd buy any of the above and unload my p22 in a heartbeat.

[carkarrier]

Yea, 22 magnum all the way. A conversion would be great.

[CJB]

The Colt ACE size .22lr magazine will "fit" in the 45 cal Kahr frames.... so we'd need a slide and barrel.

Bad news... unless you have the strong recoil spring, its gonna be overcome by the striker spring, so some re-engineering would be needed for that. Maybe a heavier striker, more inertia on its last bit of travel. I dunno... its not gonna be all that easy.

[PYROhafe]

im up for a conversion kit! Ide love to make the fun of shooting the cm9 a lil cheaper!

[mr surveyor]

with the offset feed ramp, I can't imagine a .22lr conversion kit working in a conventional Kahr pistol

but.... I would love to have a Kahr .22 lr pistol with the same feel as the CW or CM series pistols. Those of us that have been KelTec fans spent may years begging them to design a .22 lr version of the old P11, and the later PF9, and they responded with the big honking .22 magnum pistol (that is as rare as hen's teeth). I love my old Ruger MkII 22/45, but would love even more a "CW22" (or "CM22:D)

I ain't holding my breath for a locked breach, striker fired version though.


surv

[Cokeman]

They need to make a 22lr that's the same size as the P380 or one of these.

http://netdna.guncollectorsclub.com/images/guns/babybrowning2016.jpg

[TheTman]

That would make a nice little BUG in 22 WMR. For plinking, I'd like something a little bigger with a full size grip in .22 LR, I think that Ruger 22/45 is about perfect for that. Sure wouldn't mind having one.

[JFootin]

Guys, I owned a 25 acp pistol called the Budischowsky TP-70. I sold in on Gunbroker to get money to buy my custom polished CM9. They were made back in the mid 70s and are about the finest quality pocket gun ever made, IMO. These guns were also made in 22 lr. It is an all stainless steel, DA/SA gun with a slide lock and a hammer drop safety. It has a really incredible trigger on it, with a very smooth DA pull at around 3 lb and single action very light with no creep. A very high quality gun. I intend to get one of these in 22 lr for pocket carry and plinking.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4664124821/9156316/acf14c4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_La77zl4Dog4/TDtBuNoxdcI/AAAAAAAAAho/4EjsQHM3-8M/s1600/budischowsky_7122010.jpg

Do a Google search on it to find out more about it, get some history. Good clean ones are going for about $300. The later ones made by Norton are reputed to not be on a par with the originals, but seem to work. I would pay maybe $50 less for one of those.

[muggsy]

Guys, I owned a 25 acp pistol called the Budischowsky TP-70. I sold in on Gunbroker to get money to buy my custom polished CM9. They were made back in the mid 70s and are about the finest quality pocket gun ever made, IMO. These guns were also made in 22 lr. It is an all stainless steel, DA/SA gun with a slide lock and a hammer drop safety. It has a really incredible trigger on it, with a very smooth DA pull at around 3 lb and single action very light with no creep. A very high quality gun. I intend to get one of these in 22 lr for pocket carry and plinking.

http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/4664124821/9156316/acf14c4.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_La77zl4Dog4/TDtBuNoxdcI/AAAAAAAAAho/4EjsQHM3-8M/s1600/budischowsky_7122010.jpg

Do a Google search on it to find out more about it, get some history. Good clean ones are going for about $300. The later ones made by Norton are reputed to not be on a par with the originals, but seem to work. I would pay maybe $50 less for one of those.

My Dad had one in .22 LR. It went everywhere that he went. That was before the average Joe could get a CCW in Ohio. Great little pistol.

[MW surveyor]

Where have I seen this thread before?

But it's ok so keep on.

[TheTman]

I wish the S&W 617 had interchangeable cylinders for WMR, as well as .22. I want to get a revolver so I can shoot .22 shorts without having to load one at at a time. A friend of mine got a Charter Arms 22/22 WMR, with 4 inch barrel, and double action, I think it's the only DA revolver made with 2 cylinders. He really likes it. It's very accurate, and the .22 WMR, is really a pretty potent little round.

[jocko]

that realy looks like one quality little semi. Never seen one but I am impressed Not wanting a 22 semi that small either but if I was, I would certainly look for this gun..

[QuercusMax]

Interesting that the mag release is on the bottom - just like on my Colt 1903 32ACP Pocket Hammerless. I guess that's the old or European location.

[JFootin]

that realy looks like one quality little semi. Never seen one but I am impressed Not wanting a 22 semi that small either but if I was, I would certainly look for this gun..

Well, I can tell you, they are some very fine guns with incredible smoothness. And that trigger is so smooth and light that you'd think it was a toy gun. But it will send them downrange all day long.

uxj7Atpbw3w

[muggsy]

It sure would be nice if Kahr would consider making a DAO 22cal. pistol so Kahr owners would have a cheap way to practice. Does anyone from Kahr ever visit this forum to read the wishes of their customers?
:2rolleyes:

I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[michpatriot]

Neat idea ..prolly wont see one soon tho.:(

[CJB]

Was thinkin' more on that today. Jennings had a striker .22, also .25 in the Raven and baby Browning. I wonder if something more like a concealed hammer .22 auto, dao, would be more to the point with the way Kahr does things (technically I mean), as far as the shooting experience is concerned.

[mr surveyor]

I'm not for sure about the Browning, but I'm pretty sure the Jennings/Davis/lorcin/ravin/etc were blowback (fixed barrel).... weren't they? Much simpler (and more reliable) to build than locked breach in a small low powered handgun.

I'd have no problem with a Kahr blowback striker fired .22 with only the rear third of the slide being "retractable". They could still design the overall package to resemble a PM/CM in appearance, feel and weight.

[CJB]

All blowback

Also, they all had fully cocked strikers when the slide went forward.

That is, the striker was held to the frame by a sear. The slide went forward and there was no spring to then partially compress via the trigger.

Said another way - they were SINGLE ACTION striker fired.

For DA striker fired.... dunno, very light springs make that tricky - which is why I believe a concealed hammer may be the way to go on such a small pistol.

[Phillip]

Well I guess others have the same dream but the question that wasn't answered is, does Kahr have anyone that visits this forum. Wasn't there a "Kahr Debbie" sometime in the past or someone from Kahr that helped with customer request?
Maybe enough post would spark some interest at Kahr. Maybe I'm just a dreamer (P22)(PM22)(MK22)(TP22)(K22)(CW22).
Phillip

[QuercusMax]

I enjoy my .22's as much as anything, and thus would be interested in seeing Kahr come out with one.

As far as I can tell (I'm not a gunsmith), all current Kahrs are pretty much just size variants on the same basic design. That basic design has features that are unique to Kahr, and provide its competitive advantage.

As CJB points out, making a version of the Kahr design in .22 caliber would be problematic, and perhaps not even possible. Thus it would likely have to be a totally new design. Doing the engineering design and production set-up for such a thing would be a major undertaking that would likely de-focus Kahr from what they do best, and thus seems an unlikely move for them unless motivated by market research that would indicate a sufficient return on investment.

How about a Kahr revolver? :eek:

[CJB]

Does anybody make a nice - double action only .22 pistol?

[JFootin]

Does anybody make a nice - double action only .22 pistol?

The Ruger SR22 (http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22Pistol/models.html).

[CJB]

As a matter of principle, I refuse to own firearms who's main parts are made from Zamak, as the Ruger is.

Ruger's CEO pretty much stated between the lines - forget the old Ruger, this is the new Ruger, minus Bill, and we'll do what we want. Hence we see classics disappear, and this sort of tripe take their place. William Bannerman Ruger is probably rolling in his grave. He developed and built the worlds foremost casting company, and they make the pistol from Zamak? Thats about like saying you have bred the worlds best herd of Angus beef, and you serve hot dogs at lunch.

I see Beretta makes small and medium DA .22's, Taurus.... sigh.

*edit* I stand corrected... its an aluminum slide. That may be acceptable, dunno... certainly not good for long term reliability.

[Tinman507]

The SR22 is a neat little gun. The slide is aluminum. They have some kinks in the design but it looks like they're working through them with typical Ruger CS. It shoots reallly well, feels awesome in the hand. Eats most junk rounds.
As soon as I get mine back for a slide rub issue, gonna shot it like I stole it.

[jocko]

Does anybody make a nice - double action only .22 pistol?

the smith K22 still around??? Just asking.

I had their model I think 17 8 shot 22 that was IMO a real pos GUNWHENi BOUGHT IT NEW. iTMUST HAVE HAD A 50# TRIGGER on it. After some serius work by a good smitty, I think it got down toe 25#. I peddled it..

[Scoundrel]

Does anybody make a nice - double action only .22 pistol?

Well, I would suggest the Taurus 22PLY, but you said "nice". :D

I bought one a few weeks ago and like it OK, and with the right ammo (Federal bulk pack or CCI Mini-Mag), they cycle flawlessly. But they're not high quality guns. They're cheap and functional.

I can see the benefit to an all-metal, well finished compact .22lr DAO pistol.

[mr surveyor]

To speak for the "aluminum slide", I think you'll find that it is necessary for proper function of the diminuative .22 cal in full length slide handguns. The "micro" .22 cal handguns using steel slides can be made to function fairly well to "o.k." with the .22 cal., but that is probably due to the reduced mass of the short slide itself. That may be the reason that Ruger is having to use a lighter material for the slide in their newest model. It would most likely be an effort to defy the laws of physics to make a .22 cal cartridge cycle a steel slide on a CW9 sized pistol. Even the P380 slide may have too much mass to work properly.

[jocko]

probably a goo dpoint there surv. I have one of those 22 kits for my G19 and the slide it total aluminum. Works fine. If it was all steel, I am sure the cost might have been mre even but my thoughts are that it worked better wht the aluminum slide. It will last longer than I will. as I just thought I just had to have that fokker and I have used it aobut a dozen times. I get bored shooting my G19 as a 22..

[chrish]

Yea, the .22lr cartridge doesn't have enough umph to cycle the slide if it was made of anything else. I wish my P22 was made of aluminum, but it's zinc. Not sure why (cheap I guess) zinc was chosen over aluminum, but had the SR22 been out at the time, probably would have purchased it over the P22. But, definitely, if a Kahr was produced, they'd have to do something totally different, from the offset feed ramp, to the slide material. Basically, I'd just like to have that smooth Kahr trigger...if the rest of the gun was different, that'd be OK w/ me...I mean, it's a .22. Just something to train with and plink cheaper ammo with.

[jocko]

it would have to be a blow back 22 and not sure thatit would not take a complete new design fromt he grip parts to the slide. IMO not worht the money. alot of good 22's out there.

[Scoundrel]

How is it that 22lr can cycle the bolt in a MK III, M&P 15/22, 10/22 etc (which is a big chunk of steel with some channels carved into it), but not a slide?

I guess the difference might be in the spring tensions, not in the actual mass of the slide/bolt.

[jocko]

good point and as u know we are all arm chair quarter backs here to. Just sayin.

[CJB]

The problem is the weight of the part - as designed.

My TacSol .22 on the 1911 frame has a steel slide. Beretta full size .22 has a steel slide. Or... perhaps they would have gone the Marvel way and put steel inserts into their slide - for the breechface and slide stop area.

Lookit the heft of the bolt on a 10/22. Thats a good hunk of steel right there. It could be done if they were willing to do it. I'm just kvetchin' over it.....

Someplace in my mind - there is a Broomhandle Mauser wanna-be, made from a 10/22. Now that would be cool - if not totally non-practical.

[chrish]

scoundrel, i think you hit it, it's the spring tension on a handgun vs something like the 10/22 or 15-22 bolt. those, if you yank 'em back, are super light...not much going on there. but, as mentioned, i'm no gunsmith or gun designer, armchair shooter at best. i agree, probably would have to be blowback design...cuz that's how something like the 10/22 works, the spring isn't much, the weight of the bolt is what really keeps the round in the chamber the instance it fires, then the pressure pushes it back...on a handgun, it's the spring tension and a much more powerful round that makes it all work. so in the end, you have to do something like the P22/SR22 with an ultralight metal in the slide...or shift to a whole different mechanism, blowback. just my armchair take.

[CJB]

So, the question then becomes: Why not a steel slide on a locked breech .22? Hehehe... now THAT would be cool.

[Cokeman]

What other guns are set up like that?

[CJB]

I dont think there are any locked breech .22's out there. Reason being - blowback does the job, and is much less precise to manufacture. Holding size on the locking mechanism requires precision, whereas a lump of steel sitting behind the case in the chamber, does not.

[jocko]

well for damn sure everythiing would have to be ore exact for that little ass bullet to find its way into a barrels that tends to move a tad here and there. No magazine slop allowed either, and blow backs in 22's work great, so why try to reinvent the wheel.

[Phillip]

Think it's time to send an Email to "Kahr Debbie" about the interest in a DAO Kahr 22?
Thanks for all your post!

[Scoundrel]

Maybe before you contact Kahr, you should make a new thread with a poll, post the link to that thread here so we can all find it easily, and let the thread rack up some numbers from us. Then you'll have something "at a glance" for them to look at without reading through the thread.

I could make the poll if you like...

[CJB]

Its not so much "finding its way", but more like finding its way out.

When you go to a locked mechanism, the locking parts must do exactly that. For blowback... its just weight against the case head... much simpler.

[Cokeman]

I dont think there are any locked breech .22's out there. Reason being - blowback does the job, and is much less precise to manufacture. Holding size on the locking mechanism requires precision, whereas a lump of steel sitting behind the case in the chamber, does not.

So what you're thinking is that a Kahr like this would be one of the more expensive 22s on the market.

[Scoundrel]

So what you're thinking is that a Kahr like this would be one of the more expensive 22s on the market.

Well, that's gonna be pretty much a given. It'd be a Kahr, after all!

[Cokeman]

Any company that wants more customers needs a 22lr. I'm surprised every company doesn't already have one with the price of ammo. I'll bet they're all considering making one. Look how many Ruger came out with lately. They added three in the last six months.

[Cokeman]

Well, that's gonna be pretty much a given. It'd be a Kahr, after all!

That's what I was figuring.

[Phillip]

Go for it Scoundrel. Sounds like a good idea.
Lets keep the ball rolling!

[flaman]

A .22 Kahr would be so cool

[CJB]

I had a dream last night... I was talking with Bill Ruger and John Browning. We were sitting around a table discussing manufacturing. John was all gaga over new methods and materials that did away with manual operations. Bill was all gaga over old methods that could be done better now with automation, using traditional materials. Then the idea came up to meld the two, and the discussion of a cast and CNC finished skeleton with a polymer overmolding for a .22 slide entered our discussion.

And thats when I woke up.

FWIW, the ghost of Leo Fender haunts me too.

[Scoundrel]

Go for it Scoundrel. Sounds like a good idea.
Lets keep the ball rolling!

OK, here it is: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11611

[Phillip]

Thanks Scoundrel. I'm impressed.
"Let's Roll"

[jocko]

My dream was sitting around a campfire with Fred Bear and Howard Hill..

[mr surveyor]

My dream was sitting around a campfire with Fred Bear and Howard Hill..

those two guys were my top of the list about 40 years ago. I still have my 1969 copy of "Archers Digest" that featured both of them:)

[jocko]

I knew Fred pretty well , never meet Howard.. Fred came to Clinton years ago asour host for the Bowhunters Nationals that we hosted for so many years. Wehad TVcoverage and the works. Nice guy really , ascommon as anol shoe. Came up the hard way--all the way. His factory in Grayling was very small, everyone kneweveryone, their R& droom was maby 30 x30. unbelievable. He actually designed and built the razor head machine, which I am told is still in use at the Bear factory in florida.

[mr surveyor]

that's really cool, Jocko. I just pulled out my oldest copy of Archer's Digest.... it was 1971 version, not 1969. It had articles by Bear, Hill, Easton, and about every other name associated with popularizing archery and bow hunting. Those guys were to archery what Sam Colt and JM Browning were to firearms.

[jocko]

Jim Easton was also in Clinton when Fred washere fo rthe bowhuters natioals, along with Tom Jenningjs, Glenn st. Charles, Pete Shipley, Jim dougherty, Artk Kragness (then Pres of P & Y club). Acie Johnson , presidnet of Ben Pearson archery. We had allt he big wheels here for that event. Little pissy ass town of Clinton, had one of the msot active bowhuter clubs in the cuntry at that time and we drew thousands at this 4 day eent. We als had ol ted Nugent sneak into the event thinking he would not be known to shoot inb the event, but when the word got out that he was on the grounds, everyone went nuts, so Ted left. ted came in in an ol truck anbd slept in a tent with his buddies even, no hoop la la or anything. Marion James from Bowhunter magazine was also here... We had a couple of blue grass bands from KY come for free to play and drink with the guys. It was more of an event than a shoot. We had probably 5K people on the grounds but around 1200 registered shooters. The rest was familyies, many many vendors .. olh my the memories are coming back to me..

damn that was fun back then and damn it was alot of hard work to.

[mr surveyor]

that was a once in a lifetime event. You certainly met a lot of the true greats.