QC issues at Kahr

[linksrds]

First, this is not a "bash" of Kahr firearms.

I have a P380 that is 3 yars old and I really like the little pistol and I find that I carry it quite a bit. I also have a CW9 and it has never had any type of problems from Day One.

Now I said that to say this. Recently I have gone to 3 LGS and looked at either the CM9 or the PM9 and i was really bothered by QC displayed on the handguns that I looked at.

On each pistol at the end of the frame by the grip section there were "threads" (for lack of a better word) of unshaved polymer hanging out from the slide area. Several frames look as if they have been chewed bup from the slide cycling.

I did not like seeing it on the several CM9's I looked at, but when I saw it on the PM9 last night, I thought someone at Kahr is a sleep at the switch. I would be hard pressed to spend money on something that was so obviously overlooked. If you say, they can be shaved off, why didn't they do it at time of production ?

[Thunder71]

I think they are trying to cut costs or something. Some of the new guns I've seen lately have been terrible. The common attitude of it not being a big deal, just shave it off and shoot it like you stole it is besides the point. These guns aren't cheap, especially the PM series, take some pride in your work and ship them as they should be.

Sent using Tapatalk on Android

[linksrds]

I could agree with you if I am paying $400 for a import, but this is a Made in America firearm...

For the PM series, you usually find it reailing for over $600. Add the tax and background check and you are close to $700.

I don't think that I should have to do any of the final finishing on the pistol such as shaving off tag ends of poly.

[jocko]

ur not going to get an argumentfrom me on any of those comments. they need to do a better job Most are OK My PM9 was perfect in all areas. that being said if u buy it u best inspect it to make sureit meets ur standards. Every gun u buy, I would think u have the first opportunity to inspect it. assume nothing and then u will beok with ur decision..

[kerby9mm]

I own 2 mk pistols myself and they really are my favorite 2 out of the 5 guns I own. I went last Friday to shoot my mk9 where I bought it because it is the only close range. Flawless performance from the gun. After shooting I always browse around to see what they have. I noticed that the Kahr's had been moved from first display (from the door) to the last display. The sales guy I sometimes talk to (the only one that is not a jerk) was there and I asked him where's all the Kahrs he said there over there now then I said didn't you ever get any more steel Kahr's in. He said that I bought the only 2 they had since he's been there. He then told me that the owner and his son hardly order any Kahr's anymore. When I asked him he said thay said “too many problems". Shocked I said mine are great and he replied his pm9 is great too. This store has hundreds of guns,all makes and some off the wall ones (like 50cal bmg). I was debating on posting this but this seemed to be a suitable thread.

[Thunder71]

I also think a lot of it has to do with limited accessories being available for them, when was the last time you saw so much as a magazine at any local gun shop, let alone a holster? My local gun shop usually has as CW series or two on hand in 9mm and 45mm typically, and therefore keeps a couple magazines in the display case. In general I think gun shops make more on accessories than they do the guns, which makes Kahr not as attractive to keep on hand.

Back to the production issues, some of the guns I've seen look like they've been through battle as hacked up as they are on the inside, like they were pushed out on a Friday afternoon just before quitting time. Maybe they expect the gun shops to do the final prep and inspection before being sold, sure seems that way to me.

Luckily, both my PM9 and MK9 were in terrific condition and I've never had a single issue with either of them, however if I were in the market today vs a year ago I would probably look elsewhere based on what I've seen, which is unfortunate because I truly believe they are a top (if not 'the top' concealed carry weapon.

[linksrds]

I just came back from the range where i shot my CW9 . Again a flawless preformance !! I totally trust this pistol..However, it is about 2 years old and I have fired it a bunch of times and there has never been a issue with it, since day one. Never a bobble even on the break in period. But, that was then and this is now !

[wagon]

I have a P380 that is 3 yars old and I really like the little pistol and I find that I carry it quite a bit. I also have a CW9 and it has never had any type of problems from Day One.

Now I said that to say this. Recently I have gone to 3 LGS and looked at either the CM9 or the PM9 and i was really bothered by QC displayed on the handguns that I looked at.

On each pistol at the end of the frame by the grip section there were "threads" (for lack of a better word) of unshaved polymer hanging out from the slide area. Several frames look as if they have been chewed bup from the slide cycling.

I did not like seeing it on the several CM9's I looked at, but when I saw it on the PM9 last night, I thought someone at Kahr is a sleep at the switch. I would be hard pressed to spend money on something that was so obviously overlooked. If you say, they can be shaved off, why didn't they do it at time of production ?

Did you buy your P380 & CW9 used? If not, you should have noticed the polymer shavings.

No need to be alarmed and rest your weary mind, what you have just noticed is typical quality standard in Kahr's polymer guns. I have them in my PM, and have them in my CM.

IMHO, the <$400 price point CM9 is correctly priced to reflect what it is, so, you should buy it will full confidence (like I did) and enjoy the new toy. My functions flawlessly (despite just 220 rd so far).

[jocko]

I own 2 mk pistols myself and they really are my favorite 2 out of the 5 guns I own. I went last Friday to shoot my mk9 where I bought it because it is the only close range. Flawless performance from the gun. After shooting I always browse around to see what they have. I noticed that the Kahr's had been moved from first display (from the door) to the last display. The sales guy I sometimes talk to (the only one that is not a jerk) was there and I asked him where's all the Kahrs he said there over there now then I said didn't you ever get any more steel Kahr's in. He said that I bought the only 2 they had since he's been there. He then told me that the owner and his son hardly order any Kahr's anymore. When I asked him he said thay said “too many problems". Shocked I said mine are great and he replied his pm9 is great too. This store has hundreds of guns,all makes and some off the wall ones (like 50cal bmg). I was debating on posting this but this seemed to be a suitable thread.

if they also don't carry any kel tecks then either.. Personally I ainpt buying that story of there but what the hell it is the internet and we can post anything we want or hear..

[n2brk]

I'm buying the story because it's what I have heard in my local stores. The first place that I went to look at one had a 9mm in stock, and before I told the guy what brand/model I was looking for, he was already telling me to avoid Kahr.

FFW to my next stop at a different local shop. He had no Kahrs in stock, nor the Glock 36 that I was looking for, but told me that he did not sell Kahr any more because he sold 3 in a row and all three needed to go back to Kahr. He told me to avoid Kahr and his visiting gun shop buddy told me that he had two Kahrs and they were nothing but problems and he sold them and would never buy another Kahr.

I went to a third place about 2hrs away... he had many Kahrs on display. He also told me that he's had them for quite a while and doesn't like to sell them; buy the Glock.

I wound up calling the 2nd place up and ordered the Kahr. When I went in a week later to get it, the other owner was there and asked me why in the world I bought a Kahr???

Believe it or don't believe it, but Kahr has a crap reputation. That said - I LOVE my 100% FLAWLESS CW45 in every way, shape, and form imaginable. This is my favorite gun, and I have several nice pistols; a 1911, Browning HiPower, customized Ruger...

I just love this little bugger! I make it a point to tell the shop owners how much I love my Kahr whenever I go!

Wally

[jocko]

sometims to some gun shops sell what makes them the most money to. I realize some people knock kahr, that is the nature of the beast. Gander mt has a half dozen most all the time. Ur kahr 45 kinda proves they are full of sh-t to , now doesn't it.They might have said what u stated but I ain't buying thier reasoning. but again just my two cents on this, really is a mute point for me. Where I bought my PM9 at they never stocked kahrs at all and no reason other than they said we never get any calls for kahr, and their big stock of guns were glocks, all over the place

[MLESa7990]

Too many Glock fanboys in the world

That being said I have a PM9 and G23 and enjoy them both.

Not a single issue with either. Bought the Kahr new and the Glock used.

[Kahrbonized]

Jeez, I always heard a lot of good things about Kahr so I went and bought a CM9 at the gun show this weekend, now I read all these problem stories with them and wonder what was I thinking.

So far the slide hasn't stuck and my polymer looks fine (no sprue or gouges etc) so hopefully I have a good one (can't say the same for the Sig I bought last month)

[jocko]

read and believe what u want but ur gun is all that matters. ur cm9 is a super gun, People can post anything

ohmy now even a sig. what next????

[n2brk]

don't read me wrong Jocko - I'm an ugly 6' 260lbs KAHR CHEERLEADER!!! But, shops and buddies all warned me against a Kahr and into anything else, so don't dismiss when someone posts that local shops all had their bad review of Kahr as a company.

I did forget to mention though - the guy that I put my order through told me that much as he steers people clear of Kahr, and the problems that his customers have all had when buying one, he told me that their Customer service was excellent and that it might take sending them the gun once or twice but that they would get it right.

I am also not discounting your (correct) assumption that there could be motivating factors beyond *my* best interest when a gun shop steers me away from Kahr. I know that I recently learned that my local guy ordered several of one brand because they gave him 2 free in the order, so if Ruger is dealing - maybe he recommends them the "best" this month ;)

[tilefish]

I just recently purchased my first Kahr, a K9 elite, and I love it. Feels great, shoots great and its well made. BUT, based on my experience, I can see where the "problem" reputation could come from. My K9 was so caked full of crap, machining debris and congealed oil/grease that it most certainly would have had some sort of failure had I not detail stripped it prior to shooting. I was shocked at how much crap was in it (yes, it was brand new) and it felt like it had sand in the trigger. Gritty, crunchy and sticky. Also, the striker block would stick in the down position, the little spring was too goobered up.
No amount of cleaner/compressed air/scrubbing was going to cut it, it needed to be completely stripped, period. And yes,I referred to the proper prep and lube sections. Additionally, I am fairly experienced with pistols. This thing was a failure waiting to happen.
Me personally, I have no problem with detail stripping. I usually do it just for the heck of it anyway. However a lot of people can't/won't/ don't want to/don't know how etc... This would have been a terrible gun for that type of person. Furthermore, with the steady increase in gun sales, more and more casual shooters/non-gun people are purchasing firearms. This may not be a hobby to those people, it might be a necessity or something of a casual interest. The general public in general simply expects something to work and they do not want to deal with anything other than "plug and play".
I would absolutely buy another Kahr because I think they are excellent guns (except for the mag base plates lol) but I could definitely see people being leery of Kahr. They might want to step up QC a bit in terms of ready to use firearms leaving their factory.

[jocko]

and I have been told that after test firing all kahrs are cleaned, gues sthey forgot to clean the striker channel. U did it right by detailihg it completely. The gun itself is flawless, just the cleaning of it sucked...

[tilefish]

and I have been told that after test firing all kahrs are cleaned, gues sthey forgot to clean the striker channel. U did it right by detailihg it completely. The gun itself is flawless, just the cleaning of it sucked...

No argument here, its a great gun.

[kerby9mm]

if they also don't carry any kel tecks then either.. Personally I ainpt buying that story of there but what the hell it is the internet and we can post anything we want or hear..

I should have recorded the conversation with the salesperson if you don't believe what I posted that is your choice. Its good to be a DIE HARD backer of a product you believe in but what is left after the HARD facts (problems) come out about that product. You can choose to not buy these problems people post or not. Everybody could be lying about slides sticking,bad polymer,misfires etc. It is the internet after all.

[Disapointed]

I am not a confirmed Kahr basher, or I would leave this forum for good. Our first Kahr purchase is a lemmon pure and simple, and we are still trying to patiently and painfully ($$$ in ammo) work it out. New out of box it was filthy. We got it back a week and a half ago from kahr for its 1st trip back, and it was SUPER filthy, no exaggeration here. Have not given up on this gun yet ----- fast forward to this post.
True story as of Sunday March 4th. Still trying to force myself to believe in kahr and cash in on the big Kahr sale, went to local box store. CW9 for $349.00, CM9 for $400.00. Asked to see the two side by side and was going to purchase one, done deal. Salesman said, i'd be a fool to buy one these over anything. He showed me 4 other 9mm and said pick one or better yet get the LC9. I said sorry, not a huge ruger fan and would be buying one of these. He adamantly said DO NOT BUY one of these!!! He said these keep coming back and that I would regret it. No Bull. I walked out buying nothing, still ready to go back tomorrow and cash in that huge sale.

[Krusty]

Called Kahr yesterday about my PM45, I'ts been 2wks yesterday.They told me that my gun will be ready by this week. Their current turnaround is 2-3wks,I guess that they are busy with repairs. I'll update after she's back and tested by me.

[Tinman507]

With the deluge of new gun sales, is Kahr becoming a victim of it's own success?

Are they cranking them out faster than they can adequately check them?
I've seen this happen in other industries.

Sometimes it's good just to take a day or two and do a QC stand-down and make sure everyone is on the same page.

[linksrds]

"No need to be alarmed and rest your weary mind, what you have just noticed is typical quality standard in Kahr's polymer guns. I have them in my PM, and have them in my CM." by Wagon

Wagon, first off, I do not have a weary mind...if I did I guess I would be o.k. with "typical quality standard in Kahrs polymer guns ." your quote.

If you read the first post, mine actually, you will see that I have two Kahr pistols. I have all the confidence in the world in both of them ( one is my EDC)...Actually I was going to LGS to buy a CM9 or a PM9...but declined because of the "typical quality standard" again your quote.

If that much junk is visible on the outside, what is it like on the inside?

so I will just decline purchasing a Kahr for now until they work on their QC problems.

If they turn out these pistols now with this "typical quality standard" agai n your quote, they will have a lot of time in the future to work on their Q.C. because no one will be buying their firearms.

[wagon]

Linksrds: you have missed my sarcasm on Kahr's "quality". ;)

In the end, sub $400 is in line with the quality of their polymer guns, anything more than that, IMO, is over-priced. But we all set our very own "standard"...

Still, I was glad that I sold my PM9 2 years ago @ a very reasonable price, and I am equally pleased with the CM9 purchase last week, both function flawlessly.

[DKD]

I went to a LGs in the town were I work last Thursday, and got to speak with the owner who also shoots many of the guns that come in on trade or just new arrivals. Her was a new Kahr dealer. before he commented on his findings he inquired as to my experience with the brand to which I had no problems offering my experience. Both of us had nothing negative to report period. We both were fond of the design & function of several in the line.
He had a used PM9 for sale at a very competative price of $450 and she was mint. He also had new CM9's avaialble at a great price of $350. When I told him that was a very good price for such a pistol he just said he wanted to sell the guns as thats what he is in business to do and that it supports his indoor airconditioned range. He also sell range ammo at a very good price. 380 acp for $15.00 a box when others around here want $20.00-$ 22.00 a box. Yea I will be supporting this gun shop with my business...easy to talk to also...I wll also be recommending him to my friends as well.
My opinion and his as well was that many of the complaints alot of folks have can be attributed to lack of expierience, poor technique, and shoddy maintenance. Notice I didn't say all problems. Many folks just seam to have a problem with many manufactures micro compacts these days, and I feel this is primarily due to fact that these guns are pushing the envelope on size which brings on many of the problems they tend to experience. Manufactures are experiencing large orders as of late and they are human and some pistols do leave the factory, unfortunatley many of the so called dealers have alot of young pups out there whom have little exerience and will push what ever flavor of the day that their employer id pushing. This is just business as usual.....do your research, examine the piece, and trust your gut based upon what you see and not much on what you hear and you more than likely be correct in your decision. This is just my two cents worth based upon fifty -nine years worth of lifes lessons.

[DKD]

I must post a correction to my last post. The CM9 was listed for $370 still a very good price.

[linksrds]

Wagon,No offense taken...

I have fired numerous rounds through my CW9 and my P380. I EDC the 380 and have complete confidence in it.

Truthfully, I was angry when I looked at the CM9 and then at a PM9 and saw all the garbage at the end of the frame and slide. I wanted to purchase one of the two because it is slightly more compact ( length and height) then my CW9.

I did go to THREE LGS and they all carried Kahr's and all the pistols at each of the different location were the same. So you could not say, one just "squeaked" by the final inspection.

I just could not buy one with the obvious (IMHO) lack of attention to the finished product.

[zebraD]

I went to a LGs in the town were I work last Thursday, and got to speak with the owner who also shoots many of the guns that come in on trade or just new arrivals. Her was a new Kahr dealer. before he commented on his findings he inquired as to my experience with the brand to which I had no problems offering my experience. Both of us had nothing negative to report period. We both were fond of the design & function of several in the line.
He had a used PM9 for sale at a very competative price of $450 and she was mint. He also had new CM9's avaialble at a great price of $350. When I told him that was a very good price for such a pistol he just said he wanted to sell the guns as thats what he is in business to do and that it supports his indoor airconditioned range. He also sell range ammo at a very good price. 380 acp for $15.00 a box when others around here want $20.00-$ 22.00 a box. Yea I will be supporting this gun shop with my business...easy to talk to also...I wll also be recommending him to my friends as well.
My opinion and his as well was that many of the complaints alot of folks have can be attributed to lack of expierience, poor technique, and shoddy maintenance. Notice I didn't say all problems. Many folks just seam to have a problem with many manufactures micro compacts these days, and I feel this is primarily due to fact that these guns are pushing the envelope on size which brings on many of the problems they tend to experience. Manufactures are experiencing large orders as of late and they are human and some pistols do leave the factory, unfortunatley many of the so called dealers have alot of young pups out there whom have little exerience and will push what ever flavor of the day that their employer id pushing. This is just business as usual.....do your research, examine the piece, and trust your gut based upon what you see and not much on what you hear and you more than likely be correct in your decision. This is just my two cents worth based upon fifty -nine years worth of lifes lessons.

+1 on that. If I believed everything I was told, than I would probably would be the most paranoid person in America :behindsofa:

Mom taught me that I won't know if I like something or not unless I try it out for myself.

[Orphanedcowboy]

I remember when Llama had a bad reputation and look at them today........ well maybe that ain't a good example.

I have 3 Kahr's now, 2 P40's and a P380 and other than a few hiccups on the 380 during break in, they have been flawless when firing. I did have a P40 magazine crack on the rear upper corners but other than that no issues otherwise.

I have had 2 Kimbers(both with failure to feed or extract issues) that had to go back before the first box of ammo was burnt up and I have got a Sig MK-25 out for repair now(broken extractor). These things happen and I have plenty of toys to tide me over until they come back. It would be different it this was a pacemaker or airplane, but it is just a pistol and I know I can't build one anywhere near the quality I am buying, so I accept a few burps along the way. It's when they come back that they really get hammered and abused, and guess what, I generally have no issues and if there are, they settle down or disappear within a few magazines.

Most local mall ninjas only like to sell the cool guns, I refuse to darken most places locally because they haven't got a clue of what makes a good handgun other than it holds a lot and looks good in the case. Besides who wants to buy a handgun that has had the slide racked and dropped 500 times a day by some dimwit in camo drawers with at least 3 pistols on his person and needs to lose at least 70lbs.

I do my research online, I make a pros and cons list, visit every forum, make note of the bad and good post and then weigh it out for myself. Once I make a decision, then and only then do I search out one to fondle. I could care less what some meat head behind the counter says or much less what he recommends.

I am not saying all gun stores are like I described above, they are not. I am fortunate to live in a gun store mecca, there are at least 15 I can think of within 20 minutes of my house and the majority are great and are manned by very knowledgeable personnel. I can think of 2 that are what I call entertainment stores, I like to go down on Saturday morning, act dumb and listen to the counter conversations. I can barely contain the deep belly laughs sometimes. One rhymes with steeper tan kurt.... ;)

Just my 2c

[jocko]

well this is a karh forum and ur gonna get the negatives from disgruntled owners. Just the nature of the beast. all gun forujms go through this. I'm not going to defend kahr, they can do that themselves.They make great guns, some not so great. Seems like Kimbers for their high dollar guns sure go back alot but kimber owners remain loyal.. We have some memers here that do not even own a kahr but yet seem to post the negatives to, so, it is what it is. THE INTERNET

Lots of other good guns out there, people should go to the gun that pleases them.

[jocko]

Only good llama is the 4 legged one you can shear yearly and get some bucks out of, and if the fokker doesn't produce a good coat to shear, then there is nothig wrong with a llama burger either.

Please save the head and gert ahold of me..