Slidestop interchangability

[Kahrbonized]

While reading about the CM9 I notice that the slide stop is MIM while the PM9 slide stop is machined steel.

Will the PM part work fine in the CM9? Are the parts interchangeable (or from another model)?

[Tilos]

Same, same-o...slide stop
And they cost the same mim or machined:eek:

[MLESa7990]

Same, same-o...slide stop
And they cost the same mim or machined:eek:

That's interesting.

[zebraD]

Same, same-o...slide stop
And they cost the same mim or machined:eek:

It does????:confused:

[jocko]

WHY waste the money, never seen one or two slides stops of eithger MIM or forged every go bnad, IO a waste of money. Not a think wrong with the MIM slide stop. Just sayin

There is a poster on here that just posted some photos of his FORGED K9 slide stop THAT IS BROKEN.:behindsofa:

[kerby9mm]

Isn't the mim slide stop one of the cost cutting features of the c series guns?

[jocko]

probably, but its not under any pressure. but do what u feel ur needs are. I tend to error on the side that, "IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.

[gb6491]

Isn't the mim slide stop one of the cost cutting features of the c series guns?
That's the way they advertise it.

WHY waste the money, never seen one or two slides stops of eithger MIM or forged every go bnad, IO a waste of money. Not a think wrong with the MIM slide stop. Just sayin

There is a poster on here that just posted some photos of his FORGED K9 slide stop THAT IS BROKEN.:behindsofa:

probably, but its not under any pressure. but do what u feel ur needs are. I tend to error on the side that, "IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT.
Who is it that has the nice, custom PM9 (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=859)?:tongue::D
Kidding aside, I prefer the look of the non-MIM stop, but I agree there is nothing to worry about with the MIM part:
http://i55.tinypic.com/dws9c1.jpg
http://oi40.tinypic.com/o07ya.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[JFootin]

Who is it that has the nice, custom PM9 (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=859)?:tongue::D
Kidding aside, I prefer the look of the non-MIM stop, but I agree there is nothing to worry about with the MIM part...

Regards,
Greg

Who is it that has the nice, custom CM9 (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7334)?:tongue::D
Kidding aside, I prefer the look of the MIM stop, and I agree there is nothing to worry about with the MIM part. :D

[Kahrbonized]

Why ????

What ever the reason doesn't matter, except maybe as a personal preference since its an option available. Especially at the same price. One could be a spare part. and I agree, if it ain't broke it don't need fixin... yet.

I wasn't trying to imply that there is something wrong with MIM parts, although that has been debated many times and I have my opinion too. Some people like the idea of forged steel over baked liquified powder. It may be a false comfort to some, but so what, if it makes someone feel better no harm in it.

So, are you saying that none of the energy from the recoil process is transferred to the slide stop?, (barrel unlocking & pivoting and the force of the slide stopping against this pin),

What about this statement...?
" Kahr Arms, a revolutionary company committed to quality, went to the extreme in researching the material for the slide stop pin. After exhaustively surveying and testing numerous unique steel alloys, a proprietary steel with unmatched toughness and elongation characteristics was selected. The material is so tough that, in order to manufacture the part, grinding operations have to be employed. "

Does this apply to the MIM part too? I kinda doubt it but would be interested in knowing what hardening process is used on MIM.

They go on to say...

"Although the material and the manufacturing process greatly increase the cost of the part, we feel that the resulting performance benefits vastly out weigh the expense incurred each time a Kahr pistol is assembled." ...


But yet, as Tilos indicated, I can buy one for the same cost as a MIM version. I don't mean to debate the strength or appropriateness of MIM but unless all of the above is pure marketing BS, it seems like a no brainer to me.

[muggsy]

If the slide stop ever fails on my CM9 I'll replace it with the forged. Over 800 rounds and the original slide stop still functions perfectly.

[Kahrbonized]

I just read the referenced thread where the forged part failed and there are a couple others mentioned there also. IIRC, other OEMs use MIM for slide stops also without a lot of failures. One thing that I noticed in the other thread is how often there seems to be an issue of the release lever and the pin becoming loose. Since the MIM part is molded as one piece, it may actually be better in service. I know I wouldn't want any wiggle there. Another case of perception over reality ??

[jocko]

release lever and the pin coming loose to my knowledge is not an isse. Mine is not loose but it will rotate on the lever. Not sure that is a bad thing or what, but I know ofmamny that do the same thing and never an issue. I don't know for sure if the MIM part is a total one peace unit either. One cannot see where the pin comes through like the forged lever but that is also not a tell tale sign that it is a total one peace unit.

I would not fear one over the other, we are again making way way way to much out of this forged over MIM part here. I have seen more forged slide stops out of spec than any MIM kahr slide stop. if that means anything. Just sayin.

[getsome]

Yep, what he said...The cost savings to Kahr are due to having to spend less time machining the part from MIM since the molded part is more less the shape of the final part vs staring from a solid piece of bar stock to CNC the stainless part...Less time spent in the machining process is more money for Kahr...

Strength and durability wise the two parts should perform equally but if you really just got to have a non MIM slide stop just order one, they don't cost that much and it's always good to have spare parts for anything...

[CJB]

Why ????
They go on to say...

"Although the material and the manufacturing process greatly increase the cost of the part, ...


Welcome to manufacturing double-speak.

Here's a couple of things to keep in mind.

First, the factory "cost" (think more in terms of the word "investment") of an item has nothing to do with its final selling price, or the price of an finished good. The final price of anything in the manufacturing world (and most other places) is what the market (thats you and me) are willing to pay. A great many focus groups go into that determination, or it may be some CEO's seat of the pants reasoning. Somehow, they come up with an idea to fill a need in the market (real or imaginary). Then its up to manufacturing to build the product for for as little as possible. Finally after the studies are complete - a decision is made as to whether the item is manufactured.

Second. When they say "greatly increase the cost", that usually means some compound imaginary cost, or some compound cumulative cost. For example, they may say "that reverse octal spundivot support is twice as expensive as a standard support". Read that - as they decided to sell it for twice as much. Or, "that pin made from pure Krell metal, costs much more to produce than one made from Kryponite". The key there, again in double speak, is that they never would actually make one from Kryptonite because its an unsuitable material. Or, "the slide stop costs more to manufacture, but we did it that way anyway". Read that as, they make 10,000 units a year, for 10,000 top line pistols to be produced. The lesser model has only 5,000 produced... hence they spent less on the 5,000 order because both parts cost the same, and thus the 10,000 order cost them more.

Its all doublespeak in manufacturing circles as a way of substantiating the asking price in the market, and as a way boosting the perceived value of the product in the market's eyes.

[jocko]

they probably vendor the MIM part out to specialty companies, so that cost should be less compared to the forged/machined part. Lots of add hype in anything, look at ammo. +p and +P+ and short barrel ammo etc. I hve no idea what it cost to make the MIM part or the forged/machined part. cerainly the more u make the cheaper it should be. I would think the forgedf/machined part would cost more to make but again it could be penney's on the dollar to. Its a sales pitch as MIM parts are perceived by many as cheapo.

Probably making way way to much to do about either part, they give no problems. In my little mind I think this fella used K series with the broken slide lock lever part was abused before he ever bought it. I have seen levers and pins separate but never this inner peace to leave the scene. Just sayin.

Kahr will send him a new one no charge..

[titus1971]

How about the polygonal barrel on the PM? I know that they are MUCH easier to clean than conventional rifling, at least in my experience.

[jocko]

Icould take it either way, I wanted the PM9 when I bought it, had it had conventional rifly, would not have mattered tome. Not a target gun, or do I shoot it like a target gun, cleaning, well some say easier, some say no different..

[CJB]

They tell me a hammer forged barrel is cheap to make, if you're set up to make a boat load of 'em.

Button rifled barrels also not expensive. Where the cost breakdown is... can't say.

I will say, the barrel doesn't care what kind of mandrel is in it when its hammer forged.

~~~

Hammer forging is why they start with a 3 inch blank. Its thick and short, and they "hammer it" around a mandrel to make it thinner, and longer. The mandrel has the negative image of the rifling on its outside, and imparts that image into the steel of the barrel as the steel gets the piss beat out of it with hydraulic hammers that whack it with tons of force. If you want, I can show you what the outside of a hammer forged barrel looks like after hammering.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/bandersnatchreverb/Firearms/P1220143.jpg
See the helical "banding" on the barrel - thats raw hammer forge marks on a Clark .22 barrel for the Ruger 10/22. Ruger has the same barrel in its target model (with different chamber and crown). Most hammer forged barrels are finish machined and dont have those marks left on them.

Button rifling starts with a barrel blank thats semi finished. Its threaded at one end, and they affix hydraulic ram that pushes a "button" down the length of the barrel, ironing an imprint of the rifling into the metal. Most commercial barrels are button rifled, unless stated as cut (aka broached), or hammer forged.

When done right - all three types are very very good, and it takes a dedicated bench rest shooter to squeeze the last .0x MOA out each type. Each has its use with different types of bullet, and firearm. When not done right, all three types aren't worth a tinkers dam. In a pistol, you'll never, ever... know the difference between one or the other, except for possible bullet speed and or cleaning differences.