Nose diving

[mspiredm3]

Hey guys, having major issues with my PM9 nose diving rounds. Happens with the slide open, fresh mag loaded and even in the middle of shooting a mag. I've put at least 400 rounds through it to see if it would improve, but it seems to be getting worse.

Any fixes or send it back to Kahr?

Thanks in advance!

[djsung815]

send it back to kahr. i would call or email the service department and explain the situation.

[Deano]

Are you saying that the next round nosedives and the slide locks open with rounds still in the mag? If that's the case, there are a couple of very simple things that may help solve the problem. Numerous people here have fixed this problem with a couple of simple mods.

Easy test is to take the slide off, insert a loaded magazine and see if the top round is contacting the slide lock lever pin. If it is, it's probable that the incoming round is lifting this lever and locking the slide back. Some report more of a problem with the wider rounds like the gold dot. Grinding a tiny bit off of this will allow the next round to clear. Search for the mod here. Took me 5 minutes with a dremmel. You just need to be careful not to take off too much.

Also, what mag is having the problem. My six round mag never had this problem. My 7 round mags both did this until I modded them as well. Search for the mag mod. May save you having to send your pistol in. This mod is about a 20 minute project.

The mods are simple enough to do, and saved me sending my weapon back.

[kerby9mm]

Did you check to see if the mag spring is in correctly,look to see if mag follower is in tact,look at the feed ramp. There are posts on the forum of things to check but if you don't feel comfortable with tinkering with your gun IMO best to call Kahr or email them/pictures are good too.

[mspiredm3]

Here is a pic (not the best):

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/mspiredm3/IMAG0680.jpg

[Deano]

Thanks for the pic. This is exactly what mine was doing until the mods were done. Now it functions flawlessly. Are you by any chance using a 7 round mag? Those were the culprits for me as well as many others here.

[mspiredm3]

It's almost like the bullet is hitting the bottom of the feed ramp. This happens with both my 6 and 7 round mags, as well as a buddies 8 rounder.

It sometimes happens right when you slide in a fresh mag with the slide locked back. It also sometimes happens while firing (rounds 2-8)

I have not checked out the mags nor modded them, I will try that as long as they wouldn't void my warranty? I wouldn't want to unsuccessfully try to fix the problem, send the gun to Kahr and have them deny fixing it due to "tampering". The thought of being without my weapon does not sound great though :(

Can you guys provide me with the links to the magazine mods if you don't mind?

[mspiredm3]

Now that I look at the pic, it also might be hitting the slide stop. I admit that I have not done a good enough inspection of how it looks when it happens. I'm usually upset, clear the issue, shoot the rest of the mag and move on to other guns that shoot without issue.

[Deano]

Here are links to the mods:
This is the follower mod that ultimately fixed my problem:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943 refer to post #12 for a complete description

This is another mod to the follower to keep it from hanging up on the mag release button:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7557&highlight=follower+mod

This thread shows pictures of the problem with the round hitting the slide lock lever pin:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6066&highlight=slide+lock+lever+mod
Grinding a small amount off of this is very easy and will likely help.

As far as voiding the warranty, I would never tell them I ground any parts, and with the dremmel, it's so smooth, no one could tell anything was done. If you screw up either mod, the new replacement parts would cost next to nothing.

All I can tell you is I did all of these, and now my nosedive problem is gone, and the pistol is a joy to shoot. You of course should only do what you are comfortable doing.

[mspiredm3]

Here are links to the mods:
This is the follower mod that ultimately fixed my problem:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943 refer to post #12 for a complete description

This is another mod to the follower to keep it from hanging up on the mag release button:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7557&highlight=follower+mod

This thread shows pictures of the problem with the round hitting the slide lock lever pin:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6066&highlight=slide+lock+lever+mod
Grinding a small amount off of this is very easy and will likely help.

As far as voiding the warranty, I would never tell them I ground any parts, and with the dremmel, it's so smooth, no one could tell anything was done. If you screw up either mod, the new replacement parts would cost next to nothing.

All I can tell you is I did all of these, and now my nosedive problem is gone, and the pistol is a joy to shoot. You of course should only do what you are comfortable doing.

Thanks for the links man, MUCH appreciated! I like working on my own things as much as possible. I will fiddle with the mods this weekend and hope for the best :)

[Deano]

Take the slide off of the pistol. Load up one of your magazines fully. Now by hand remove the top round. Notice that the next round slides forward. Without adjusting the position of that next round, insert that mag into the mag chamber and look at the relationship of that round to the slide pin. If it's touching, or looks like it would not clear the pin, that's probably a big part of your problem.

Here's mine AFTER grinding the slide pin:
Note that there is still only a fraction of a millimeter clearance.
http://www.box.com/s/pd3dffu6h5o9n6j2qqy9

The more the next round slides forward in the mag, the less clearance you have of this pin. That's why I think the follower mod works. It seems to lessen this sliding forward of the next round. That's just my opinion.

[Deano]

Thanks for the links man, MUCH appreciated! I like working on my own things as much as possible. I will fiddle with the mods this weekend and hope for the best :)

Good luck. Once you get it shooting right, you're going to absolutely love the pistol.

[kerby9mm]

400 rounds and still doing it. If it was my gun it would be time to call Kahr. That's what a warranty is for. What if its something else not right causing the problem? More time lost messing around with home remedies.

[Ikeo74]

This could be an ammo problem. Are you shooting reloads? If not, what brand and bullet shape and weight are you using? I would try different ammo before reworking the mags and internal gun works. The length and shape of the ammo can cause problems like this.

[Ken_K]

If the OAL of that particular batch of ammo (commercial or reloads) is too long it can cause the round to contact the bottom of the feed ramp and nose dive. I would definitely try some different ammo and see if that solves your problem. If not then mod the magazine as others have suggested.

[DKD]

My P380 that I just aquired was cking up badlywhen chambering the first and second round in a full magazine, but only did it with W Silver TipsJHP & Speer Gold Dots JHP's. My own hand loads didn't do this since the nose configuration was a bit more tapered. Last night I did the modification on noe of my spare magazines and they worked alot better. In fact I was able to sling shot rack even better than from the slide stop recommended by Kahr. It even got better with subsequent rounds.
I'd first check the clearence of the slide stop lever and do some minor filing and request a spare from Kahr. Then do the magazine mod, it does wok, just do a little at a time then try it out until they function better.

[Deano]

400 rounds and still doing it. If it was my gun it would be time to call Kahr. That's what a warranty is for. What if its something else not right causing the problem? More time lost messing around with home remedies.
He has done nothing other than shoot it 400 times. If it's the round hitting the slide lock pin, you wouldn't expect it to get any better. 5 minutes with a dremmel on a cheap part would save time, not waste it, IMO. It's the first thing I'd try along with slimmer ammo. It's not like this is a new mystery problem. It's been repeated over and over and over. Sending the weapon back to the factory seems to me like the waste of time, when there's LIKELY a simple easily fixable solution. Then if that doesn't work, send it in.

[jocko]

ur right and to add to that kahr will send him a new slide lock if he calls them. I had 3 slide locks lever replaced in my Para Carry 9 before it got right. Last resort is to send it back, at the worst one can dremel the slide stop and ruin it, while waiting ona a new one to arrove. at best he can dremel it and fix it and then stillhave a new spare if ever needed.