cw 45 shooting low, any help?

[john800]

I just got a new cw45 and it seems to shoot pretty low. I would natrally line the dot up right above the post, it seems like I need to line the bottom of the dot up with the top edge of the rear sight with a pretty big gap between the post and the dot, which I found it harder to do consistantly. any advice? has anyone tried night sights or fiber optic sights? or am I the only one to came across this?

[jocko]

naw more than like,.yt ur not used to the gun yet, that looooong trigger will cause alot more lows than ever highs. U might need to change ur sight picture, u never stated ur distance either, but IMO keep it at 7 yards. Also If I can make a suggestion, try POA shooting with your kahr, seeing only the front sight clearley, the rest will all fall in place, in a SHTF situation ur gonna be damn lucky if u see any sight at all, let alone thining ur gonna line up the rear,front and target. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Ur sights are ok, u need just more time with the gun, changing sights is an option but I would not think it is going increase ur accuracy any. get some snap caps and throw them in with 30 good rounds of ammo and let someone load ur magazine for u, so u don't know if one or 2 or none of the snap caps ar ein teh magazine. Trust me, this will show u alot.

These kahrs are not single action 1911's. they are defense guns that will save ur life, u will tighten up ur groups with more rounds out of the gun to and staying at 7 yards and under for true defense practice, get good at that distance, get good and fast with ur sight picture and POA is oneway to do all of that.

I have literally thousands of rounds out of my kahrs and I just never shoot high, most shot groups posted on this forum willb e bulleye or low, but hardly every high. I credit thatto the kahr trigger system, althogh smooterh than snot, it is long by design.

[kerby9mm]

If it was my gun I would shoot it from a supported rest for the gun to make sure its not my shooting. The gun is not a target pistol but I understand your concern. You could let someone else shoot it and see how they do. I think most of the time its the shooter getting used to the long trigger pull. Practice trigger control by dry firing at home and watch which way the muzzle points as you pull the trigger.

[JFootin]

The low shooting is because you haven't got used to the lo-o-o-o-ng trigger. You don't see it because of the recoil when the gun fires. Jocko says mix some snap caps with your range ammo and have someone else load your mags so you won't know when they will show up in your firing. When the gun doesn't go bang and the muzzle of the gun drops a bit, you'll see clearly what is happening. It is a challenge for most of us to master the perfect trigger stroke for these Kahrs, so don't feel alone. It requires a smooth, continuous stroke through the let off point. Unlearn trying to stage the trigger or anticipate the let off point, for it will only throw you off.

Another thing to remember is that there is no short reset. You have to let the trigger go all the way back forward to reset, sort of like a double action revolver.

[JFootin]

Jocko beat me to it! ;)

[Bawanna]

I saw on the news where he doubled up on his Geritol this morning. No doubt an unfair advantage in the energy and speed arena.

Hey if I'm puttin on another addition for horse heads I might as well go for another one you know?

[john800]

I will give it some more rounds as is, my dad has a cw9 and both of us shoot both guns low, but he hasnt had his very long either. I was shooting at 15 feet. I will just have to go blast some more ammo...

[Bawanna]

It's a thankless job but somebody's gotta do it. I wish I was there to help ya put some rounds down range.

[wyntrout]

Sight picture or point of aim is important. I align the top of the front sight, not the dot, with the top of the rear sight and center that on a horizontal line through the center of the target. Then I adjust point of aim and/or sight picture to get the results I want. Try to consistently shoot a magazine for a group, then change the way you use the sights. I like Point Of Aim=Point Of Impact (POA=POI) and aiming at the center, but I adjust as needed. I don't spend a lot of time with fine aiming after I "figure the sights out".
Your pistol's sights might require the 6 o'clock aimpoint for hitting center... or they may require using the top of the dot... or even covering the center of the target with the dot, but I think that most sights are set up so that the top of the front sight is aligned with the top of the rear sight for POA=POI. You can figure out what it takes to get your rounds where you want them and use what lines up for you, but learning to shoot with these long DOA trigger pulls takes some getting used to... practice.

Wynn:)

[AlbinLee]

I would tend to agree with everyone else that your pistol is more than likely POA/POI out of the box, (if Robocop is the one shooting it). More dry firing practice and range time will help to smooth things out. What is probably happening is you are anticipating recoil, enough that you will actually dip the front end of the gun just as you "think" the trigger is breaking. The issue is exaggerated by the fact that you are shooting a pretty small, hard kicking pistol with a long pull. To help practice, do like Jocko says and have your dad throw some snap caps into a magazine randomly here or there while shooting. IMO, it works best if you have shot 50 rounds first, then start to sprinkle them in randomly. When you hit that snap cap for the first time you will immediately understand. Then probably laugh (like I did my first time).

Some old school pistol-craft tricks I learned from my grandpa for trigger control:
1. Rack the slide, then slowly balance a penny on your front sight. Try to extend your arms out into a firing position, and slowly depress the trigger to the rear, allowing the shot to break without dropping the penny. Yes, its not easy.
2. When you are at the range, try to surprise yourself with the trigger break. You can do this by counting. Switch up the tempo by counting to 3 one time, then maybe 4 or 5 seconds another, but each time with the objective of breaking the shot somewhere in that time frame (Not necessarily right at the end). Focus on the front sight, count slowly, and depress the trigger as smoothly as possible, at a constant rate. Try not to slow down your stroke as you approach the trigger break, but just continue right on through it.
3. Finally, make sure your not falling off the trigger immediately. After fully depressing the trigger, hold it there during recoil. Let the trigger out after re-acquiring your sight picture, but do so slowly and smoothly until the trigger resets. The only real downside to the Kahr trigger is that the reset is pretty much completely forward.

When trigger control is properly executed with a small pistol like this, the recoil and muzzle flip will seem alot higher. This is because your grip should be a little more relaxed (not limp though), and you aren't fighting the impulse by dipping forward in anticipation. Your letting the natural tension in your arms and upper body dampen the cycle, so that it returns on target naturally.

Hopefully that helps, apologies for my long winded response.

[jocko]

The low shooting is because you haven't got used to the lo-o-o-o-ng trigger. You don't see it because of the recoil when the gun fires. Jocko says mix some snap caps with your range ammo and have someone else load your mags so you won't know when they will show up in your firing. When the gun doesn't go bang and the muzzle of the gun drops a bit, you'll see clearly what is happening. It is a challenge for most of us to master the perfect trigger stroke for these Kahrs, so don't feel alone. It requires a smooth, continuous stroke through the let off point. Unlearn trying to stage the trigger or anticipate the let off point, for it will only throw you off.

Another thing to remember is that there is no short reset. You have to let the trigger go all the way back forward to reset, sort of like a double action revolver.

have never mastered my kahr triggers. One does not know he is flinching when the bang thing happens. dry firing is good practice but when u know no b ang is going to happen, dry firing serves little use. mixed snap caps will show every time ur shooting ills. once u realize for sure, then u can work towards a fix. No embarrasement in flinching or jerking the trigger. Most all do it, just some can do it in a wrong way that still turns out to be pretty decent groups. Practicve doesd not make perfectr, but perfect practice does.

Most will say with these kahrs as they are truly a defense gun, far more than a target gun, is to train to fight, which is far more differnet than standng there in a weaver stance or another shootng stance. Just saying. Guarante eu, we wills ee far more low patterns on this fourm than ever high patterns. There is a reason for that as JFootin has described.

[jocko]

we did that penny/dime stuff with our M1's back in basic trainijng but these were round barrels and it was a good practice. sitting a dime on a kahr slide is not the same type of drill, IMO

[JFootin]

I would tend to agree with everyone else that your pistol is more than likely POA/POI out of the box, (if Robocop is the one shooting it). More dry firing practice and range time will help to smooth things out. What is probably happening is you are anticipating recoil, enough that you will actually dip the front end of the gun just as you "think" the trigger is breaking. The issue is exaggerated by the fact that you are shooting a pretty small, hard kicking pistol with a long pull. To help practice, do like Jocko says and have your dad throw some snap caps into a magazine randomly here or there while shooting. IMO, it works best if you have shot 50 rounds first, then start to sprinkle them in randomly. When you hit that snap cap for the first time you will immediately understand. Then probably laugh (like I did my first time).

Some old school pistol-craft tricks I learned from my grandpa for trigger control:
1. Rack the slide, then slowly balance a penny on your front sight. Try to extend your arms out into a firing position, and slowly depress the trigger to the rear, allowing the shot to break without dropping the penny. Yes, its not easy.
2. When you are at the range, try to surprise yourself with the trigger break. You can do this by counting. Switch up the tempo by counting to 3 one time, then maybe 4 or 5 seconds another, but each time with the objective of breaking the shot somewhere in that time frame (Not necessarily right at the end). Focus on the front sight, count slowly, and depress the trigger as smoothly as possible, at a constant rate. Try not to slow down your stroke as you approach the trigger break, but just continue right on through it.
3. Finally, make sure your not falling off the trigger immediately. After fully depressing the trigger, hold it there during recoil. Let the trigger out after re-acquiring your sight picture, but do so slowly and smoothly until the trigger resets. The only real downside to the Kahr trigger is that the reset is pretty much completely forward.

When trigger control is properly executed with a small pistol like this, the recoil and muzzle flip will seem alot higher. This is because your grip should be a little more relaxed (not limp though), and you aren't fighting the impulse by dipping forward in anticipation. Your letting the natural tension in your arms and upper body dampen the cycle, so that it returns on target naturally.

Hopefully that helps, apologies for my long winded response.

Dang! I've been doing it right! :p

Great post, AlbinLee! :yo:

[AlbinLee]

we did that penny/dime stuff with our M1's back in basic trainijng but these were round barrels and it was a good practice. sitting a dime on a kahr slide is not the same type of drill, IMO

On a round barrel? I dont know if I could pull that off! :eek:

I was taught to balance it on the front sight, not just the slide top, so it is still pretty challanging. I guess it would be much harder if you had Big Dots or something lol!