P380 - widening the grip

[Dmitri]

Hey guys,

Maybe a silly question, but is there anything on the market that would widen (not lengthen, as with Pearce extensions) the grip on the little P380? Something roughly about the size of one's index finger "attached" to the back of the grip, like the blue area here:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2e1uag6.jpg

I can shoot it OK, but my fingers are long and it's a LOT of adjustment to movement of trigger finger relative to the rest of the hand/grip... It would feel a LOT better if there was less distance from the back of the grip to the trigger, so I was thinking to try and make one of these little "pads" this weekend, but thought I'd ask before I dive into all that...

I've searched and searched online but could NOT find anything of sorts, so if nothing like that already exists, then I'll give it a try. But, since I'm a terrible handyman :), maybe someone will have some ideas about this? Specifically, 1) what to use for material (I was thinking maybe an old tire or something along those lines), and 2) how to secure it on the grip hopefully without permanent damage to it (i.e. without glue)...?

To clarify, just scribbled a little visual aid :o -- if you sliced along the red line and looked "down" on/into it, the blue padding would be what I'm talking about (at the back of the grip) as on Fig. 1, or even extended to wrap alongside the grips (for a snugger fit/to sit better) as on Fig. 2:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ywa98z.png

And then could wrap the end result into a QwikGrip or something similar, -- should be able to make it look pretty good...

Any thoughts/ideas will be appreciated.

Thanks!

P.S. Probably should have posted in the Kahr-Tech subforum... Oh well too late now. :o

[zamboni]

I'm sure it can be done. Maybe as simple as pushing a couple of popsickle sticks up under a qwikgrip or bike innertube.

[Dmitri]

I dunno about popsicle sticks... they'd be WAY too wobbly IMO. It's got to be sitting solid there, like it's part of the grip itself. I was thinking some hard rubber, shaped to match the curve of the grip... The biggest problem as I see it is figuring out how to attach/secure it there without glue, so that it's solid enough but yet removable if there's ever such need (e.g. ship back to factory, resale, etc.)

[Tinman507]

What if you built up that area with hockey tape and then put a piece of shrink tube over it. Heat until it shrinks and Voila you're done?

[Dmitri]

Shrink tube sounds like an excellent idea, but I've never used it so I'm not sure if it might be too strong/tight, to the point of affecting the shape of the grip (or even cracking or otherwise damaging it)? I.e. will it shrink to 1/2 (or whatever the specs) of its diameter no matter what/crashing everything in its path, or is it "soft" enough where if it meets some resistance, it'll just stop?

[Tinman507]

The stuff I've used forms to it's underlying shape. It's not strong enough to crush anything. Not sure.

[Bawanna]

This came up not long ago and I have an officer here that would benefit immensely from some sort of similar fix.

My thought was to build up that back area with maybe acra glas gel. You could build it up in layers until you get close to the size your looking for. It comes with black and brown dye, if dyed black it would blend well with the grip. Then cover it with a tube or sleeve of some sort for the grip quality of the rubber.
Might shape a piece of plastic or something and epoxy it or acra glas that in place and then shape to fit. That might be much faster and perhaps less risky.

[Dmitri]

Thanks guys.

Tinman507 -- I'll get a piece of it at Lowes this weekend and try it on something to see how hard it would squeeze.

Bawanna -- wouldn't epoxy be extremely hard to remove though, if were was ever such need? Or maybe I'm setting unrealistic goals here, i.e. you can't have something like that really solid AND easily removable...

Just had another thought: maybe first put a thin (0.5mm?) heat-shrunk tube on the grip, and THEN epoxy a shaped hard-rubber or plastic bit to that? This way everything could be removed by (carefully) cutting off the underlying tubing...

OK I'll definitely try to do something with that over the weekend, if I find the time, and post an update & pics when (if) I have any luck/success...

[AlbinLee]

This came up not long ago and I have an officer here that would benefit immensely from some sort of similar fix.

My thought was to build up that back area with maybe acra glas gel. You could build it up in layers until you get close to the size your looking for. It comes with black and brown dye, if dyed black it would blend well with the grip. Then cover it with a tube or sleeve of some sort for the grip quality of the rubber.
Might shape a piece of plastic or something and epoxy it or acra glas that in place and then shape to fit. That might be much faster and perhaps less risky.

I guess the question becomes: does it need to be non-permanent? If I were OP, I would probably do my best to consider all of the removable options before doing something permanent.

If this were me, and I was sitting in my shop wondering how I might make this work, I would probably do something like this:
1. Buy a hard rubber or plastic buttpad, like something you would screw into the stock of an old shotgun or rifle. I would probably use plastic.
2. Carve out the general shape of the piece you will need using rough cuts.
3. Work it into a fitted part using some file work, sandpaper, maybe even a dremel tool.
4. Continuously test the fit until you get the depth you are looking for, and make sure to leave at least a little beavertail so you don't ride to highly on the grip.
5. Blend the edges on the left and right side so there isnt a rough transition from your part to the frame.
6. Find a non permanent adhesive to attach it to the frame.
7. Bicycle inner tube around the whole thing.

I could see this being very do-able in my garage, because I have all the tools necessary. If you do too, this should be a pretty fun and straightforward project.:D

[Dmitri]

I think I've got the tools I need, and I know I'm going to enjoy at least trying to make it work... :)

If I may ask, what would you consider a good example of "non-permanent adhesive" that one would be able to remove in a few years without damaging the original polymer grip?

Thanks

[DKD]

efore you do anything permanent, why don't you first try a couple strips of the previously noted hockey tape then cover it with a Hogue Jr. rubber slip on. That way you can custom fit it before hand and see how much to build up the grip. Just a thought. I did all my Kahr's that way and it really fills out the grip and make for alot more confortable shooting. It also helped with obtaining the same grip on the pistol which helps function & consistant accuracy.

[Dmitri]

DKD -- like I was saying I'm actually trying to find a NON-permanent solution...
I really like the heat-shrink tube idea; I don't consider it permanent at all.

OK just ordered both this grip tape (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Magic-Single-Sheet-Griptape/dp/B000GAQVYS) and the Hogue grips, -- was planning to get them anyway since my QwikGrip experience was mildly disappointing (too loose/slippery/won't stay on, even with tape under it for extra thickness). If I can get the tape+Hogues combo work (if it feels solid enough) -- then great, though I have to say I've got my doubts about that... But I'll definitely give it a try; thanks.

[Cokeman]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2e1uag6.jpg

Isn't that called a Beretta Nano?

[AlbinLee]

I think I've got the tools I need, and I know I'm going to enjoy at least trying to make it work... :)

If I may ask, what would you consider a good example of "non-permanent adhesive" that one would be able to remove in a few years without damaging the original polymer grip?

Thanks

Silicone caulk or just plain silicone adhesive would be my recommendation. It is safe on polymers and adheres well. The beauty of it is that silicone uses surface tension to adhere two surfaces, meaning it should peel off cleanly when the time comes should you decide to remove it. The most important thing to keep in mind is that there are different grades of adhesive... akin to the Loctite system (Blue < Red < Green). With silicone, "5200" is considered permanent, so you want to use "4200" or lower strength so that it is still removable.

With that being said, I really like your idea to cover the grip frame with a shrink wrapped under layer. That way you can rest easy using a semi-permanent silicone to glue on your built up component.

Overall, I would still use the plastic or hard rubber piece, fitted to the rear of the frame. Just shrink wrap an under layer, build your custom fit piece, silicone glue it in place, then use bicycle inner tube around the whole thing. I think that it would look and feel great, if done well.

Good luck! Update with pics when you get this thing rolling. I am sure other folks might like to use your example later on down the road, if they are in need of a similar modification.

[Dmitri]

Thanks a lot! I'll look for "silicone adhesives" (of appropriate strength) and will use them. Think they'll be strong enough to keep things together long-term, given all the shock they'll be undergoing from shooting, etc.?

If not, then I was thinking that if I go the pre-wrapping route, then I could use ANY type of adhesive, permanent or not, since in that case it wouldn't matter, i.e. it will be removable anyway because of the underlying wrapper...

But yeah, will definitely post an update, with pics and all steps/materials used, as I mentioned earlier -- IF I'm able to actually pull it off/make it all work. (I'm just a measly electrical engineer by education, i.e. not at all a "handyman", although I do have some of the very basic skills with primitive shaping tools, etc. So thanks for the 'good luck' wish -- I know I'm gonna need it...! :o :))

[JFootin]

I wish you good success. I have very small hands, but the trigger reach on my J-frame is still too short. I shopped and found the Hogue Bantam rubber grip that covers the backstrap and has some thickness to it for about $26 shipped. I am going to try it when I get the gun back from the gunsmith (trigger job).

I use the Qwik-Grip on my CM9. Like it a lot. It did move a bit at first, but now it is staying put. Of course, if you want to use one on top of your work, it would make it so tight that moving won't be a problem.