Selling a gun on kahr talk

[Wayne Nelson]

Hi guys!

If I choose to sell my CM9 here, what exactly do I need to do to get it to the new buyer? Do I need to have my FFL dealer send it to the buyers FFL dealer or can I just send it to his FFL dealer through the mail? Can I use the Post Office or do I have to use Fed EX or UPS? Does it have to go by Air and/or over night? Any more info would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks!

[JFootin]

Do it through your FFL. He can ship it insured by USPS. You can't. But get one that doesn't charge an arm and a leg. Oft' times, gun dealers charge too much. Mine owns a Radio Shack and a jewelry store and charges $20. And he's just 1/4 mile from me. the cost for shipping with insurance is about $17 by USPS. The cost for overnight air at UPS or FedEx (which they insist on once you obey the law and tell them it is a gun) can be up to $60, so paying a FFL and having him ship it is still cheaper. JMHO.

[Kahrbonized]

My UPS shipping point doesn't ask what is in the box. I'm not sure I have to tell them if they don't ask. If you want to ship directly you have to find out if the receiving FFL will accept a gun shipped from you (a non-FFL) if they will then you have to get them to fax or otherwise provide you a signed copy of their FFL license and transfer form. You might check the ATF website to see if there are other details you have to follow.

[JFootin]

My UPS shipping point doesn't ask what is in the box. I'm not sure I have to tell them if they don't ask. If you want to ship directly you have to find out if the receiving FFL will accept a gun shipped from you (a non-FFL) if they will then you have to get them to fax or otherwise provide you a signed copy of their FFL license and transfer form. You might check the ATF website to see if there are other details you have to follow.

It is your responsibility to tell them it is a gun. Failure to do so is a violation of federal law.

[jg rider]

Hi guys!

If I choose to sell my CM9 here, what exactly do I need to do to get it to the new buyer? Do I need to have my FFL dealer send it to the buyers FFL dealer or can I just send it to his FFL dealer through the mail? Can I use the Post Office or do I have to use Fed EX or UPS? Does it have to go by Air and/or over night? Any more info would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks!

I don't think you have to have an FFL holder ship to the buyer's FFL holder. The only thing an FFL does on your end is take your money so that your pistol gets shipped via USPS. By federal law that's the only way a handgun can be shipped via USPS. Think about it, when you send a pistol back for factory work or custom work, you always ship it from you to them. I've always shipped directly to the buyer's FFL with a copy of my info for his/her records. The buyer pays all shipping costs for next day air shipping for a hand gun by UPS / Fed-X. There is no federal law that requires handguns to be shipped next day air. It a UPS / Fed-X requirement. The reason is because of theft they want the gun out of their possession as soon as possible The price of you gun should have included shipping costs.

If I recall correctly long guns can be shipped by you via regular mail (USPS) to buyer's FFL

[JFootin]

I don't think you have to have an FFL holder ship to the buyer's FFL holder. The only thing an FFL does on your end is take your money so that you pistol gets shipped via USPS, that's federal law. I've always shipped directly to the buyer's FFL with a copy of my info for his/her records. The buyer pays all shipping costs for next day air shipping for a hand gun by UPS / Fed-X. There is no federal law that requires handguns to be shipped next day air. It a UPS / Fed-X requirement.

If I recall correctly long guns can be shipped by you via regular mail (USPS) to buyer's FFL

You are correct on all points, but it really slows the sale of a gun if you ask for $60 or more for shipping. My FFL does outgoing transfers for me for $10, + $17 for shipping, so I can ask $30 from the buyer. Plus, he knows how to check out the FFL on the other end and make sure everything is done correctly.

[jg rider]

You are correct on all points, but it really slows the sale of a gun if you ask for $60 or more for shipping. My FFL does outgoing transfers for me for $10, + $17 for shipping, so I can ask $30 from the buyer. Plus, he knows how to check out the FFL on the other end and make sure everything is done correctly.

Wow that's cheap. Out here the dealers want almost as much as UPS shipping

[TriggerMan]

My UPS shipping point doesn't ask what is in the box. I'm not sure I have to tell them if they don't ask. If you want to ship directly you have to find out if the receiving FFL will accept a gun shipped from you (a non-FFL) if they will then you have to get them to fax or otherwise provide you a signed copy of their FFL license and transfer form. You might check the ATF website to see if there are other details you have to follow.Break their rules and risk a denied claim on a lost package.

[TriggerMan]

It is your responsibility to tell them it is a gun. Failure to do so is a violation of federal law.This is incorrect. You violate Federal Law when you, as a non-FFL try to use the US Post Office.

In the case of UPS (United Parcel Service), you violate THEIR terms and risk a total loss on any insurance claim you may have.

[jg rider]

This is incorrect. You violate Federal Law when you, as a non-FFL try to use the US Post Office.

In the case of UPS (United Parcel Service), you violate THEIR terms and risk a total loss on any insurance claim you may have.

How do you loose your insurance claim with UPS? If I don't declare what's in the package and insure it for total value and then it gets lost how do they know what was in the package.
Yes there is the possibility of a damage issue, but highly IMHO to happen with the way I pack

[Blue150]

I spent some time researching it a few years ago and here is the strait and skinny as I understand it.

1. Owner may ship directly to manufactures for warranty work or modifications and manufacturers may ship a gun directly to the owner after completion of said work. This applies to the manufacturer only, not to the custom shop that is installing the latest magic solution to poor technique on your race gun.

2. Owner may ship guns to themselves. I did this once and shipped an inherited gun to myself rather than deal with the TSA (Thumb Sucking Orifices). I shipped it the day I flew and was there to receive it the next day. Contents has to be declared.

3. All other firearm shipping must be between FFL holders.

It would be a good idea to do your own research and print up the appropriate regulations and policies from the ATF and your carrier's websites if you are going to ship yourself. It is done so infrequently that many postal clerks and shipping reps will refuse firearms because they don't know the law and/or company policy.

As the one on the hook if you screw up you need to know for damn sure what you can and can't do. We're talking federal felonies and there is a democrat in the White House. All federal prosecutors work for the U.S. Attorney General who is one of the first appointees by each new president. Don't expect them to be understanding.

____________________________
"If I could explain it to the average person, I wouldn't have been worth the Nobel Prize"
- Richard Feynman

[jg rider]

1. Owner may ship directly to manufactures for warranty work or modifications and manufacturers may ship a gun directly to the owner after completion of said work. This applies to the manufacturer only, not to the custom shop that is installing the latest magic solution to poor technique on your race gun.If you ship to a custom shop for repair or custom work, shop can ship directly back to you. I just did it on two different occasions with two different reputable shops within the last two years.



3. All other firearm shipping must be between FFL holders.

A seller can ship direct to the designated FFL of a buyer. Seller has to provide id info for the FFL to enter into the in page of his bound book, and when he transfers the gun to the new owner he enters the buyer id info into the out page of the book.

[JFootin]

Triggerman, you are the one always wanting proof, but you are real quick at telling someone they are wrong or posting lies, without showing any proof of your assertions.

I will assure you that it is federal law that you must tell the shipper that you are shipping a handgun. That is how UPS and FedEx take advantage of us, insisting on the most expensive shipping method, because we are required to do that by big brother with ATF ready to bore us a new one if we get caught. Most of us here know this. Go do your homework.

[TriggerMan]

Triggerman, you are the one always wanting proof, but you are real quick at telling someone they are wrong or posting lies, without showing any proof of your assertions.

I will assure you that it is federal law that you must tell the shipper that you are shipping a handgun. That is how UPS and FedEx take advantage of us, insisting on the most expensive shipping method, because we are required to do that by big brother with ATF ready to bore us a new one if we get caught. Most of us here know this. Go do your homework.

Suggest you keep your word and put me on IGNORE.

For the doubters, see this letter from BATFE. The last paragraph is crystal clear.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/BATFE_shipping_letter.jpg

Thank you

[TriggerMan]

How do you loose your insurance claim with UPS? If I don't declare what's in the package and insure it for total value and then it gets lost how do they know what was in the package.
Yes there is the possibility of a damage issue, but highly IMHO to happen with the way I packA "risk" isn't the same as an absolute. Have you ever had to document a claim? Has anyone ever had a lost package turn up later and had it opened or damaged? You do realize that it will be quite obvious that the "Send To" address is a gun warranty center. The first place a claim trace starts.

It's a real risk but feel free to put up a $700 gun vs. the convenience of stopping at a local drop off. The charge is the same if you ship overnight air. One day air vs. two day air is a small difference. Is $15-20 worth it? Will a gun manufacturer even accept a box from an owner if it comes other than overnight air? Ask, if you don't know for sure.

[JFootin]

Suggest you keep your word and put me on IGNORE.

For the doubters, see this letter from BATFE. The last paragraph is crystal clear.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ing_letter.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/BATFE_shipping_letter.jpg)

Thank you

OK, good clarification. But does this apply when a person is selling a gun and sending it to the buyer's FFL? I don't see FFL included in that list. I see that it works for sending to a manufacturer or dealer - cool.

Also, doesn't the Post Office have a seperate rule?

[CootShooter]

Guys, the answers are out there and easy to find via google (https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+sell+and+ship+a+handgun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

Summarized from here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html


Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.
-----[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may nottransfer (via USPS) a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. [...] Handguns are not mailable (via USPS). A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
-----[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
-----[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

[TriggerMan]

OK, good clarification. But does this apply when a person is selling a gun and sending it to the buyer's FFL? I don't see FFL included in that list. I see that it works for sending to a manufacturer or dealer - cool.

Also, doesn't the Post Office have a seperate rule?

Yes, absolutely, the Post Office has rules/federal laws

Check this out, its pretty thorough

http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

To anyone reading, be carefull to distinguish the USPS (Postal Service) from UPS (United Parcel Service). UPS is one of two common carriers that can help non-ffls on handguns.

Also, if you don't need to send the entire gun, you can send the slide by USPS because the frame has the serial number and is the regulated part.

[dean1818]

Gunbroker is the safest method i have seen over face to face

[JFootin]

Guys, the answers are out there and easy to find via google (https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+sell+and+ship+a+handgun&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

Summarized from here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html


Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.
-----[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may nottransfer (via USPS) a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. [...] Handguns are not mailable (via USPS). A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
-----[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
-----[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Thanks, CootShooter. I still think my advice is good: use your local FFL for sending guns. I also found that FFLs that are not gun shop owners, pawn shop owners or gun sellers, but who have the FFL license and use it as an extra source of income sort of like being a notary public, will charge a lot less for their service.

Someone posted recently, saying that FedEx no longer insists on next day air when you tell them you are shipping a gun. But you have to go to their local distribution center to do it. For me, that's an 80 mile round trip. My FFL is 1/4 mile from me, and with his service fee and USPS shipping charges, it is still much cheaper than the other two.