02 K40, MAJOR problem...what will Kahr do?

[xtriggerman]

Just got a used K40 off GB a couple of weeks ago. Once over, it looked clean so I put my first 6 rounds in under 1.5" off hand @ 30". I realy start liking this gun right off the git go. I put about 50 rounds through it and it shoots just fine and about the most accurate compact auto I can recall shooting. Then I take the gun apart and see how the barrel lock up has nearly no shoulder what so ever! It looks like what little of it was there is peaned away. This lack of lock up shoulder is now putting a peaned out bur on the caming surface where the slide stop keeps the barrel in battery (pictured). If the camming groove peans up much more, this gun may fire as a blow back operation like a 380. The picture with my thumb in it shows a white line that is a slight pean of the barrel imprint on what God awfull little the barrel is locking up on. If your used to seeing twin .050 thousandths deep locking lugs on a "mild pressured" 1911 45 barrel and here, see nearly nothing but tiny lines on a 35K psi gun... whats going on? Only the gun shoots fine with the brass coming out nice and round. I called CS and they said it was a 02 gun and they serviced the gun in 09. They recieved it today. I think they should replace the barrel & slide for nada. I cant believe this virtualy no lock up slide got by them.... What do you guys think they will do?
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/HANDGUNS/P1050729.jpg
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/HANDGUNS/P1050734.jpg
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/HANDGUNS/P1050736.jpg





Here is a fast foward comparison of the new replacement slide and barrel lock up area. Some difference....
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/HANDGUNS/P1050760.jpghttp://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/HANDGUNS/P1050739.jpg

[MLESa7990]

I'd be surprised if they replaced anything under warranty since it is second hand and 10 years old.

[johnh]

Looks like massive wear to me, and certainly not Kahr's responsibility. The gun could have seen 200,000 rounds of badly made reloads for all we know. My suggestion would been to have asked the seller to refund your money. When you buy a gun off auctions it is very important to inspect every aspect of it before shooting. If you find anything not meeting description, you should return it and/or file a complaint with the auction if it is not resolved correctly. If the seller posted "as-is", you are likely stuck. This is the risk of doing business on auctions. I have been burned before--I am sure many members have as well. Regardless, that is not Kahr's responsibility and not a warranty item. I would say anything they do is going beyond the call of duty.

[Longitude Zero]

WOW that piece has been shot to heck. I agree that KAHR is under no obligation to repair or replace. However I would contact them and try to negotiate some sort of mutually agreeable solution. It never hurts to ask.

[xtriggerman]

Thanks for the replies. Folks, my point here is, is this a defective slide right from day 1? I dont know what the thickness of a "good" slide should be from the top of the slide to the bottom of the recoil surface but if it in fact was not suficient, the gun should never have left the factory in the first place. I can guess this was a problem 3 years ago when they had it in the shop because you can see 3 dimples behind the gauled shoulder in the slide. Those dimples are probably Rockwell test marks. They may have thought the slide was soft and tested it. Also I noticed on another slide photo there is now a relief cut at the front of the slide barrel channel. As you can see on this earlier one, the recoil edge of the barrel has made quite a ding in the slide where it stops at full recoil. The barrel on my gun shows a flatening pean to the side edges of the recoil shoulder lip. It may be the relief in the slide channel is needed to keep the barrel recoil shoulder from getting peaned down. And thus, starting a deteriorating impact on what small recoil shoulder is on the slide. The bottom line here is, is the design a sound one? It may be but if any one small spec in this critical area is not suficient, the design will self destruct with use As shown here. The original R&D should have caught this befor the gun when into production as a harder recoiling .40. This may not be a millitary spec gun but if infact all the parts in this gun were in factory spec at the time of build, were do you draw the line as to how many rounds the gun is good for befor it becomes dangerous to shoot. My guess is something was out of spec from the git go & Kahr should be able to figure that out and give me an honest apraisal for repair. If this is a XXX rounds throw away design, Im OK with that also. I just want to know where the company stands on that. Its possible the small design in 40 is just flat out too weak for extended shooting. I tend not to believe that since the barrel cam out depth design is cut for a generous recoil shoulder on the slide that just isnt there on this particular slide/barrel. Increasing the relief of the barrel in the barrel channel (as the newer slides are) will alow a greater recoil shoulder contact depth. Other designs have gotten around this by giving the barrel a thiner OD behind the muzzel end. This alows the pitching up of the barrel not to bind up in full recoil position (Colt Officers Model). I figure I will give them a couple of weeks befor I call them. May be at worst I will have to pay up but hope they will have a good used slide I can have.

[Bawanna]

I concur that they have no responsibility to replace anything, not their fault at all but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they do replace barrel and slide free and send it back.

I've seen it before. Hope your lucky.

Do let us know what you find out. Johnh is right, I've caught a bad one on the auctions too. Not horrible bad but not what I expected either.

[jocko]

a 10 year old gun , has to have alot of speculation as to now whby it looks like that. WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Wehave seen many many 10 year old kahrs on this forum and NONE ever looked like that in any way. IMO there is to many excessive wear points for this to be a totally defective gun, what caused it, ???agani all pure specualitoon.

If kahr does u any good, IMO it is out of the goodness of their heart for they basically own u nothing. We have no idea how many other hands this gun has went through.

Buying anything used today is a cross ur fingers thing, and on the internet probably even worse. GB should work with you on this gun being u bought it from them, What Bawanna stated could happen to, so before we criticise kahr or anyone, lets let this play out.

I will admit it looks like a real mess, working or not, I would not own it--very long!!! naturaly u would feel they should replace it no charge.. Do u know if this a carbon steel slide or a stainless steel slide???

[xtriggerman]

This is their Black "coated" stainless gun. You know, if the gun didnt shoot so accurately and handle so well in my hands, I would just sell it but my feelings are it is not safe. I would rather take the $$$ hit and keep it than sell it in this dangerous condition. It would be a pain to have shipped it back to the gun shop that sold it because of the process of getting it off my permit and then dealer shipping it. Putting a handgun on a NYS pistol permit is 2 trips to the dealer and 2 trips to the sheiff's office and they are both over 50 miles away during working hours.

[jocko]

kahr just might work something with you to. Partial cost replacement, who knows..keep the faith.

IMO , if it was serviced in 09, I just don;'t feel kahr would have sent back a gun in this condition, so IMO this damage has had to come after the 09 service. Would be niceto know what they did to it in 09 also. course I have seen photos of gun damage when sitting in ones hands, doesn't look near as bad as some photos depict them. I notice the internal wear inside that barrel lug has to IMO throw the gun completly out of timing but u say it works great, so humm so uch for that comment. I have never seen a barrel lug that looked like that but again photos can be deceiving.

It is so hard to blame kahr for a gun that was sold and evidentley used for over 10 years, we have no clue as to how, who or what went out of that barrel. Sometimes it only takes a minor thing on a gun to get out of time and then other things tend to take the brunt of this out of time condtion.

[johnh]

Amen Jocko!

[JFootin]

You know, it looks like someone has challenged jocko's record for rounds fired through his PM9. The difference is this is a K40. Could the hotter 40 S&W rounds be the difference? Or did someone do some over aggressive filing/sanding to round that area thinking it was a good idea? Or is it a defective barrel that was not hardened sufficiently enough on the hood? - Not likely seeing as how it was serviced in '09. But then, maybe it did service as a rental gun at a range and had 50,000 + rounds fired through it with minimum cleaning and maintenance.

I know I haven't seen that kind of wear on a Kahr pistol before this. :confused:

[xtriggerman]

I just wish I miked that slide at the "no lug" area for thickness befor I sent it out.:( That would have given me a better picture of if it was gun or use related when compared to a good slide that shows nimimal or no ware. I did some home work here on the web befor I bought this gun and it toped the list in my major criteria of what I wanted in a CCW. Granted I took my chances with a sight unseen gun but at $479 shipped + the cost of wood grips, I figured Id take a chance. Like I said it top the list in all but price. Maybe I'll end up with a good shooter but not so good a price in the long run. I hope they can do something there after all the measurments are done.

[xtriggerman]

Well, I got my K40 back today. Iv been without the gun for just over 2 weeks. Thats not bad for anything to be turned around these days. Kahr CS replaced the slide with a brand new one and they replaced the barrel with what looks like a used barrel with some miles on it. Im quit happy with how they handled this, who wouldnt be!
After about 40 some odd rounds fired, I can say this barrel is not as accurate as the old one :(. The old one had a imaculately smooth bore. It looked like glass chamber to muzzel. The replacement shows alot of length wise ream lines in grooves with a couple of tiny anomolies in the lands. Im not sure if I want to buy a new barrel or not. I didnt buy this gun to be a target gun but for SD. Only that old barrel spoiled me....and a new one may be a gamble on if its much better than the replacement :confused:.
I had to stone and polish a couple of places on the new slide since it was shaving brass filings into the sear area and I put a heavier spring in the mag catch since the mag came down twice while shooting.
All in all, I think Kahr's CS makes these all SS guns well worth owning. Alot of new guns need a tweek here & there to get them to run well. Kahr may not be immune to a few quirks here and there but CS makes up for any of that.
I tuned a brand new Taurus PT1911 for a guy last summer that had a very large inward kink at mid barrel. I sent the barrel back to CS and it took them nearly 4 months to send me a replacement that was a touched up used one that was also junk (way off center OD)! By then I already fit a Ed Brown match barrel in the PT and had it running fine. I had a full service gun shop for 14 years and I can tell you horror stories from Barreta, Ruger, Remington ect customer service. Thankfully, Kahr will not join that circus IMHO ;) .

[jocko]

uoutta be very very very happy.I have a hard time believing kahr wold send a used barrel with the gun. That wold be a first and being they replaced the lside wit a new one, I wold think the barrel woldbe the same way.Just sayin

either way u came out way way ahead. They really owed the owner of that gun nadda.

[xtriggerman]

A as stated on the invoice "test fired" condition on a brand new barrel would not have put the heavy maring over the chamber and barrel OD. Its used, but it works fine and for a used gun 10 years old, why would they not save some $$ and go with a used for a used? Heck, they gave me a brand new slide! Thats Christmas enough in my book. I still may buy a new barrel & recoil spring. I dont mind doing business with these guys.

[tilefish]

uoutta be very very very happy.I have a hard time believing kahr wold send a used barrel with the gun. That wold be a first and being they replaced the lside wit a new one, I wold think the barrel woldbe the same way.Just sayin

either way u came out way way ahead. They really owed the owner of that gun nadda.


A as stated on the invoice "test fired" condition on a brand new barrel would not have put the heavy maring over the chamber and barrel OD. Its used, but it works fine and for a used gun 10 years old, why would they not save some $$ and go with a used for a used? Heck, they gave me a brand new slide! Thats Christams enough in my book. I still may buy a new barrel & recoil spring. I dont mind doing business with these guys.

Simply put, liability. It would not be worth the potential exposure to save a few dollars on a barrel.

[jg rider]

A as stated on the invoice "test fired" condition on a brand new barrel would not have put the heavy maring over the chamber and barrel OD. Its used, but it works fine and for a used gun 10 years old, why would they not save some $$ and go with a used for a used? Heck, they gave me a brand new slide! Thats Christams enough in my book. I still may buy a new barrel & recoil spring. I dont mind doing business with these guys.

If your gun was made in 02, didn't it fall in the life time warranty era?

[xtriggerman]

I dont know if they still honor the lifetime thing but the admin here claimed they do not. I'll take his word for it. I would think CS would be liable only for installing a "known" faulty barrel. A good used barrel is not likely to pose a personal injury case. Other wise, they would have to put new barrels in every used gun that came into the shop!

[tilefish]

I dont know if they still honor the lifetime thing but the admin here claimed they do not. I'll take his word for it. I would think CS would be liable only for installing a "known" faulty barrel. A good used barrel is not likely to pose a personal injury case. Other wise, they would have to put new barrels in every used gun that came into the shop!

It's not that simple and its not always about personal injury. I work in the insurance industry and you would be shocked at what can be considered a potential exposure. I will not bore you guys with the details though. Go enjoy your gun.

[xtriggerman]

I put up a new picture of the lock up area on the new slide/barrel for a comparison back on the first page. Pretty evident as to why they opted a new slide and better barrel. Wheres the beaf? its in the new parts!

[jg rider]

I dont know if they still honor the lifetime thing but the admin here claimed they do not. I'll take his word for it. I would think CS would be liable only for installing a "known" faulty barrel. A good used barrel is not likely to pose a personal injury case. Other wise, they would have to put new barrels in every used gun that came into the shop!

From my recent conversations with Kahr, older guns are grandfathered in to the lifetime warranty. Only the newer ones fall under the the new warranty.

[xtriggerman]

Thanks for adding that info to this post. But can you explain if its the "lifetime" of the original owner or they dont care how may owners the gun may have had?

[Mike_B]

Thanks for adding that info to this post. But can you explain if its the "lifetime" of the original owner or they dont care how may owners the gun may have had?

Good question....

[eltee]

I would just send it in and see what they say.

[Longitude Zero]

The worst they can say is nope. Generally my expierence is that the lifetime warranty, for any product that has one, is good only for the original purchaser.

[jg rider]

Thanks for adding that info to this post. But can you explain if its the "lifetime" of the original owner or they dont care how may owners the gun may have had?

I've recently had two conversations, with service that said older guns are grandfathered in, and an officer of the company who told me all warranties, life time or limited are covered no matter the owner.
If you have doubts just send in the effected parts.

Here' what they've done for me. I'll save the best for last.

We own 2 highly customized, older 98 K9 Elites shown here

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4520&page=19
starting at post 190, pages 19 & 20

And 2 PM9s. Please understand that theres nothing wrong with Kahr's quality. We shoot them a lot. 3X a week since 1999.

They once replaced, free of charge the night sights on our K9s, after 7 yrs. use. I just sent them the slides.
I cracked a K9 slide while trying to tighten it to the frame (I don't recommend it). I called to buy another. They asked me to send the gun back to them and they'd replace the slide.
They replaced 2 peened barrels on our PM9s, well after the 5 yr. warranty expired. (one was part of a recall) Those barrels had seen a lot of my hard cast lead bullets through them. No questions were asked.
I lost a rear Novak night sight off one of the PM9s after the 5 yr. warranty. They asked me to send the slide in so that they could replace the front sight also.
They just recently replaced our prematurely depleted night sights on 4 Kahrs with sights of our choice, free of charge. That took some doing. We chose flat black Novak rears and F.O. fronts.
They went above and beyond on this one. one of the PM9's DLC coating was scratched on the top of the slide, from me trying to remove the front sight (again not recommended). They replaced the slide without me asking. I also sent them the 2 K9 barrels to look at because I thought they may be starting to peen. Those barrels also had seen lots of lead bullets through them. They replaced both of them
And now for the best! I've told this one before. This is no B.S. and no exaggeration.



LOL! Believe it or not

Some time back when a guy by the name of Stephan was running the service department of Kahr, I had to send back my wife's tricked out K9 because of a cracked slide (they paid return shipping for the whole gun). The barrel hood and the trigger were jeweled on this piece

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/Jos%20Kahrs/001JosK9.jpg

When I got it back it had a new, plain trigger and barrel.

Back then there was a really nice lady, I believe named Dotty that was running the customer service dept. When I called her to complain that my jeweled trigger and barrel had been replaced, she became unglued. She wanted to know what kind of gems they were. I explained to her that it was just a process also call turning, no gems involved. She was all apologetic and said they doubted if the barrel and trigger could be found. She asked me what Khar could do to make me happy, holster, sights. I jokingly or so I thought told her what I'd really like. Then I said if you can't find the pieces don't worry about it.

Back then we owned two K9s and one PM9. About two days after speaking to Dotty, I got a call from Stephon to say per Dotty's instructions, to ask me to submit a copy of a dealer's FFL. I asked him if this was for real, he said yes, they found my barrel and hood in someones work bench draw.

Yes, we now own two PM9s. This is no B.S.it really happened this way

[jocko]

that outta be a fokking STICKY and then every time we hear a bitcher on this fourm we can direct him to that thread. Had to believe jgrider but trust me I believe every word u printed. No doubt sometimes kahr does screw up when a gun goes back but they also step up to the plate when not necessary or equired to do so. Nice report and oh yes I remember Dottie well, whgat a suyper lady, wonder what ever happened to here???

[jg rider]

that outta be a fokking STICKY and then every time we hear a bitcher on this fourm we can direct him to that thread. Had to believe jgrider but trust me I believe every word u printed. No doubt sometimes kahr does screw up when a gun goes back but they also step up to the plate when not necessary or equired to do so. Nice report and oh yes I remember Dottie well, whgat a suyper lady, wonder what ever happened to here???

I was told she retired, and Stephan and Randy went to another department.
Thing have really changed since they left. I had to escalate to someone higher than the service dept. to get the last sight issue taken care of. That's a long story.

[jocko]

I sure do like that front grip stippling job, nice work.

[jg rider]

I sure do like that front grip stippling job, nice work.

Thanks jocko. Have you seen these 1911s? Please let me know which one you like the best. And you don't have to be a gentleman about it. You'll see what I mean if you read some of the posts after the pictures.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5832&page=11

page 11 & 12 starting at post 106

[jocko]

oh my that lower colt commander with ther dual back strip stippling gives me a bo@ner to no end. I take it,u did the work even, wow, no double wow that is awesome.

And you don't have to be a gentleman about it. LOL, I think most will tell u that is not ol jocko..

[Tinman507]

God there are some artists on this forum.
What a completely beautiful firearm.

[jg rider]

oh my that lower colt commander with ther dual back strip stippling gives me a bo@ner to no end. I take it,u did the work even, wow, no double wow that is awesome.

And you don't have to be a gentleman about it. LOL, I think most will tell u that is not ol jocko..

I wish I had the patience to do checkering like that. What that is, is a rubber coated aluminum mainspring housing that was sold by Pachmeyer many yrs. ago. Besides being light weight, the soft rubber won't wear through the lining of a outer garment like a checkered steel main spring housing will. Other things I did to keep the weight down as much as I could was to use a now discontinued Chip McCormick carbon fiber trigger, flattening and scalloping the top of the slide, and some other internals. It now weigh as much as an Officer's Model.

Yea! I did all the checkering, fitting, etc. All the stuff that didn't need machining like dove tail cuts, threading, hard chroming etc.

I don't know if you picked up on the joke. Some of the posts after the pictures, from bawanna, gb649, and I think some others preferred my wife's 1911 over the rest. I think they were being nice to her.

[xtriggerman]

Seems a couple of folks didnt read page 2 of this post! The gun did go back to CS and the new picture posted on the 1st page is a comparison of the new slide and barrel courtesy of Kahr as was explained here earlier. As far as why would I post the 2 pictures side by side? Iv been doing gunsmithing for over 30 years and have never seen a slide and barrel peaned away like the one I bought over the net. It was a surprise to me. This type of wear IS in fact possible with this design. As JG has said his "lighter" cast 9mm loads peaned up a couple of barrels that needed replaceing. New buyers should be aware of the possiblity of finding a used gun with a peaned barrel and slide. The good news is Kahr did good by me when I sent the gun back and replaced the worn parts free of charge. If kahr dumped that lifetime warrenty for a 5 year one, buying a used gun with this ware could be a $300 prospect of getting the gun to run safely. The P40 has alot going for it design wise but unfortunately the metalurgey is just not adaquit in the breech lock up. The 1911 has 3 lock up contact faces of a depth of .055" each. The kahr has one (rather small) lock up face of .040" on a cartridge that is nearly twice the working pressure of the 1911. That one design defficency will always be the achilies heal of this otherwise excellent firarm design. Everything else about the K is superb. Altho the canting angeled extractor could stress in time. My K40 will get a light diet of full house jacketed ammo simply because I want the gun to out last me, as is. I just shot a 8 round group with the front frame rested on a 4X4 off a table at 35'. The factory winchester 165gr fmj's printed a hair larger than 1". The used barrel Kahr gave me (for free) apparently shoots pretty good, just 1.5" low. Only a nut job would not be happy with that kind of factory performance. I hope this post puts the facts about these guns out there so "used" gun buyers will know what they need to look at. Most of these guns will probably never get shot enough to show a peaning but its still something that should be considered with the 5 year, your dime policy. Thanks to all who took the time to comment.

[jg rider]

Seems a couple of folks didnt read page 2 of this post! The gun did go back to CS and the new picture posted on the 1st page is a comparison of the new slide and barrel courtesy of Kahr as was explained here earlier. As far as why would I post the 2 pictures side by side? Iv been doing gunsmithing for over 30 years and have never seen a slide and barrel peaned away like the one I bought over the net. It was a surprise to me. This type of wear IS in fact possible with this design. As JG has said his "lighter" cast 9mm loads peaned up a couple of barrels that needed replaceing. New buyers should be aware of the possiblity of finding a used gun with a peaned barrel and slide. The good news is Kahr did good by me when I sent the gun back and replaced the worn parts free of charge. If kahr dumped that lifetime warrenty for a 5 year one, buying a used gun with this ware could be a $300 prospect of getting the gun to run safely. The P40 has alot going for it design wise but unfortunately the metalurgey is just not adaquit in the breech lock up. The 1911 has 3 lock up contact faces of a depth of .055" each. The kahr has one (rather small) lock up face of .040" on a cartridge that is nearly twice the working pressure of the 1911. That one design defficency will always be the achilies heal of this otherwise excellent firarm design. Everything else about the K is superb. Altho the canting angeled extractor could stress in time. My K40 will get a light diet of full house jacketed ammo simply because I want the gun to out last me, as is. I just shot a 8 round group with the front frame rested on a 4X4 off a table at 35'. The factory winchester 165gr fmj's printed a hair larger than 1". The used barrel Kahr gave me (for free) apparently shoots pretty good, just 1.5" low. Only a nut job would not be happy with that kind of factory performance. I hope this post puts the facts about these guns out there so "used" gun buyers will know what they need to look at. Most of these guns will probably never get shot enough to show a peaning but its still something that should be considered with the 5 year, your dime policy. Thanks to all who took the time to comment.


Hi xtriggerman
I was one that did read your page 2 post, but didn't go back to look at the new pictures. Having never handled a K40, now I'm curious about it's internal measurements, like the lug height of the barrel and the slide thickness from the top of the slide to the locking area, although I don't think that should matter, compared to my new K9 barrels and my older slide. Later after I have my first cup of coffee I'll take some measurements and post them. I'd appreciate if you would post your slide thickness since you say your barrel lug area is .040".

After looking at those before pictures again, it looks to me that the barrel was twisting. Because of the wear on one side of the bottom lug slot and the uneven wear on the barrel lug. Makes me think that the barrel was binding and not being able to drop down properly. What does the slide stop cross shaft look like? Is it gouged?

Back in my IPSC competition days, guys that were shooting comped .38 supers and such wanted to keep the barrel and slide locked up as long as possible. So when fitting a barrel they'd leave the bottom lug longer, so that the barrel and slide came back further before the link came around to pull the barrel down. It cause the upper barrel lugs to start to round off, never saw any wear on the slide lugs though. Different steel?
There was an article written in American Handgunner magazine about some barrel maker's bottom lugs actually shearing off. It was law suit time.

[jocko]

I had two barrel lugs on my Kel teck 32 auto break off. One in less than 50 rounds. never seen anything so pourous as those two barrels.

[jg rider]

Well I took some measurements on my K9. The barrel lug height from the top of the hood to the top of the barrel ring was .051" compared to xtriggerman's .040" on his K40 barrel. My slide wall thickness which the lower part is the lug area is .0995 from the top of the slide to the inside pad.

What was surprising is that using lay out blue shows that only about a little more then the top half of the .051" is contacting the slide lug area.
That's because the lower part of the slide lug is slightly beveled in, I think to help prevent peening.

IMHO, with the pressures generated, I don't want a .40 Kahr if that's all there is for a lock up. It may be O.K. if you don't shoot it much, but it won't work in our life style.

I realize that the bottom lug's horizontal portion of the slot holds the barrel and side together for the start of the travel slide, but?

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/01-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/02-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/03-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/04-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/05-1.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/06-1.jpg

[xtriggerman]

jg, this makes a great comparison between the 2 differing lock ups. The slide thickness on the new slide is exactly .150". I didnt measure the barrel lug its self but how much of it actualy rides up the .150 face. The barrel only uses bottom .040 of the .150 slide total thickness. The angular edges that move down away from the horizontal lock up area on the 40 do not actualy touch the slide at in battery position. They kant away as the barrel moves to top out in battery. The full lock up forces are only on the horizontal contact of .040" and .340" left to right. As the barrel begins to ware and pean in slightly, the .340 latteral contact will grow slightly. 1911 slides are hardened while the barrels are quite soft in comparison. You can take a good 1911 slide, put it in a bench vice and squeze the rails inward by .100 or more at mid slide and the rails will spring back to the original width when you open the vice back up. Thats why all the tightening is done primarily on the 1911 frame rails where the steel is not nearly as hard as the slide. I used to do all the customer returns at AO on the 1911A1s back in 1982 & 83. I dont remember what the Colt barrels rockwell'ed at but they were harder than the garbage castings that George Numrich made me put in the guns back then.
Billy Playford used to rifle all the numrich barrels on the original rifling machine that Springfield used to make Krag barrels on from 1896. One time he screwed up and a run of 200 1911 barrels had nothing but lines for rifling lands. Fred Nicholes, the shop office manager got the South African Gov. to take a 200 gun order on the cheap so they made me put those key hole specials in guns and ship em! about 5 months latter, we were shipping them 200 new Colt barrels for free.... Fred thought it was funny at first. ha ha......... bunch of nuckel heads. Kahr has got to be a BIG step up for the AO brand.