Preparedness isn't just for "Preppers"!

[wyntrout]

Damn... just wiped out a page of text trying to find some links for the post:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Survive-End-World-Know/dp/0452295831/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332621463&sr=8-1

I just ordered this for Wifey after she found it while looking for survival info.

Anyhow, let me save this bit before I screw up again!:rolleyes:

My job in the Air Force was to deliver, as needed :), "special weapons" to our enemies. Doing that, we expected to penetrate and be flying through an EMP-rich environment... probably in the Eastern Soviet Union... USSR, or CCCP. Our military was aware of the EMP and hardened our weapons systems against that, since WE would be causing most of that EMP on the battlefield, but there are nuclear-tipped SAM systems that could be expected to be employed against us as well. What I'm trying to get at, is that EMP is not B.S. and it would be the most effective use of one or two small nukes against the USA, if you had a delivery system capable of hoisting it over the USA... like from a nearby freighter. Korea could do that now and Iran will be capable soon as they cobble together a nuke or two.

We've been talking about his since the "Preppers" series started and she's always watching the late night History, Discovery, and National Geo channels and all of that kind of stuff while she's trying to get to sleep.

I was discussing the Ruger .22 Carbine, extra magazines, and the ammo supply I have ordered for small game hunting and backup defense... my only rifle. I told her how much I had spent and that I still wanted to get some more stuff... like a compact, folding bike for her to travel the 9 miles from her job to get home in case her car was disabled... and a get home bag to include a sidearm and a belt and holster combo with extra ammo, among other things. She's onboard for this preparation., and she thinks I ought to do the same for my van... not a bad idea... the bike and a "get-Home Bag".

That has been my biggest worry, for if she's at work and all electronics are fried by EMP... weapon OR SOLAR STORM FLARES... that is a giant fusion explosion going on... even if it IS 93 million miles away!

The cops will be deaf, dumb and blind and without transportation... and it won't take long for the criminals to figure that out and start looking for stuff "to share"... even the victims' bodies.

ANYHOW, again, I wanted to bring up here a topic that will concern a few of us. How many of you have gun safes with electronic locks?? What if those were fried by any kind of EMP??

I started trying to fabricate a shielding cover for the lock keypad with heavy layers of tinfoil, but that was clumsy and wouldn't last long with taping it in place and removing it using metal tape. So I decided on a metal can to cover that with strong magnets to hold it in place and make removal easy. With a few magnets I already had and the first can large enough to fit over the panel, I cobbled together a temorary cover using a 3" deep by 10" diameter cookie tin. I'll try to find something smaller and just large enough... and get something at Harbor Freight... the China Tool Store, if they have something more appropriate and neater. I might look into a metal grounding strap and see if shielding needs to be added to the back of the lock apparatus.

I thought I would bring this up in case no one had given this any thought.

Thoughts??

:behindsofa:

Wynn:)

[melissa5]

I've got that book. It's pretty good, but not as hard cores as "The SAS survival guide".

[wyntrout]

I added a bunch more text to the previous post and here's a link about EMP. The book by the author is a "realistic" possible scenario... not pretty:

http://www.onesecondafter.com/

There's a lot about EMP on the site.

Wynn:)

[Barth]

All these reading links and I don't read - LOL!

Just Barth being Barth (complaining again)

How about a cliffs notes with pictures?
Survival for Dummies - Yup Yup
http://diesel-ebooks-cdn.make-a-store.com/mas_assets/image_cache/4/7/a/b/500x500_293561_file.jpeg

[wyntrout]

Wifey had four days off to use some "excess" vacation time before losing it, and one thing she was doing was looking at this stuff at bookstores. She wisely waited until she got home so I could use my Amazon prime and One-click shopping.

Wynn:)

[Mike_B]

This is by far the best "survival" book I've come across. "Handbook to Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family" by Arthur Bradley.

This guy is very thorough and No Zombies!

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Practical-Disaster-Preparedness-Edition/dp/1463531109/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

This handbook will help you to establish a practical disaster preparedness plan for your entire family. The 2ND EDITION has been expanded to include discussions of long-term food storage options, firearm selection and handling, disaster preparedness networks, radiological emergencies, our country’s impending financial collapse, and much more. Steps are also provided to help you prepare for the five deadliest types of natural disasters: earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and tsunamis. This new larger 8" x 10" format includes easy-to-copy worksheets to help organize your family's preparedness plans. Additional information is presented for the elderly, those with children, people with disabilities, pregnant women, and pet owners. Every topic is well researched with over 280 references cited.

[wyntrout]

He seems to know what he's talking about and I'm thinking of buying this book, too:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kuTJ91xJL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg



http://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Preparedness-Attacks-Solar-Storms/dp/1469941554/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332658813&sr=1-2

Wynn:)

[AIRret]

Hey Wyntrout, my husband and I were talking about shielding our gun safe just a few days ago. Could you post pictures of what you have done to your safe.
Thanks

[melissa5]

"One Second After" is an excellent book, but is a little rough. For a softer look at what happens after an EMP, the Terri Blackstock "Restoration" series is a very good read.

[Mike_B]

This is by far the best "survival" book I've come across. "Handbook to Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family" by Arthur Bradley.

This guy is very thorough and No Zombies!

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Practical-Disaster-Preparedness-Edition/dp/1463531109/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

This handbook will help you to establish a practical disaster preparedness plan for your entire family. The 2ND EDITION has been expanded to include discussions of long-term food storage options, firearm selection and handling, disaster preparedness networks, radiological emergencies, our country’s impending financial collapse, and much more. Steps are also provided to help you prepare for the five deadliest types of natural disasters: earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and tsunamis. This new larger 8" x 10" format includes easy-to-copy worksheets to help organize your family's preparedness plans. Additional information is presented for the elderly, those with children, people with disabilities, pregnant women, and pet owners. Every topic is well researched with over 280 references cited.

Forgot to say I like this book so much I have the 1st edition hard copy and the 2nd edition in Kindle.

[TucsonMTB]

Hey Wyntrout, my husband and I were talking about shielding our gun safe just a few days ago. Could you post pictures of what you have done to your safe.
Thanks
Just a thought . . . most of the inexpensive, electronic locks feature an override key for dead batteries. This thread prompted me to find the two keys supplied with the one safe in the house that has an electronic lock and put them where I would remember to look for them. :o

You might have similar keys supplied with your electronic lock.

[ptoemmes]

Quite by accident, being a bit under the weather yesterday, I flipped through the channels and saw a re=run of: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/

I guess new shows are on each Tuesday night.

I know NOTHING about this show and so am not promoting it - nor panning it.

I will say the four segments in last night's show - especially the two family hook up on the farm in South Carolina was interesting.

I can't see where a TV show could be anywhere as complete as a book or personal guidance from an "expert", but the fact that a show like this is on a non fringe (IMHO) cable channel seems kind of telling to me.

Feel free to comment...

Pete

[wyntrout]

Okay. I went shopping for stuff to make a cover for my gun safe's electronic lock panel. I looked at Northern Tool... nothing... and at Harbor Freight... found some magnets... regular $1.99 for $1.79... bought two. I couldn't find anything for a shield at those two places so I went to Wal-Mart.

First, I looked at all of the canned goods to see if I could buy something and use the can. I had determined that I needed something round with about 4.25" diameter and 1.5" deep. All of the cans that weren't overly tall were 4". So I went to Pet section and looked for stainless water bowls... cats' bowls too small... small Stainless dog bowl... perfect... almost... for only $2.47 and it was NOT made in China!! It was from India.:D

Anyhow, I just did a quick and dirty stuck the bowl in place and took pictures. I'm not sure if I really need to ground the bowl to the safe. One thing I read online, though, was to use silica gel for a desiccant instead of an AC-powered warming element type, because EMP voltage surge will carried into the safe though the power cord.

Pictures follow, and when I get a chance I might look at a more elegant way to connect the magnets to the bowl or flatten the rolled lip of the bowl for a better magnet to safe fit. Putting the magnets in place can be funny as one side pops
off when you put the other on... back and forth!:D

First my purchases:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/EMP%20Protection%20for%20Electronic%20Safe%20Lock/IMG_2715.jpg

The magnets:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/EMP%20Protection%20for%20Electronic%20Safe%20Lock/IMG_2716.jpg

The bowl:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/EMP%20Protection%20for%20Electronic%20Safe%20Lock/IMG_2718.jpg

The bowl label:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/EMP%20Protection%20for%20Electronic%20Safe%20Lock/IMG_2717.jpg

The bowl held on the safe by the magnets:

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/EMP%20Protection%20for%20Electronic%20Safe%20Lock/IMG_2723.jpg

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

The bowl is about 2.5" deep and the outer rim is rolled a bit, so flattening that where you want to put the magnets may make that easier to get them in place without so much of an angle.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/EMP%20Protection%20for%20Electronic%20Safe%20Lock/IMG_2720.jpg

You really just need a tin can that will fit over the electronic lock's panel flush on the safe's door. For $7 or so this may do the trick.

I will probably look at the back of the panel... after removing the "carpet" liner and see if I might be able to add any shielding there... though probably not needed.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

question, is there any test data out there that would tell u if ur doing the right thing or just wasting time and effort.

[QuercusMax]

This doomsday stuff is fun :confused: to think about and get prepared for, but most preparedness stuff I have seen that I have seen goes off the tracks because:

1. It usually focuses on a single threat while failing to account for others, and
2. It does not not take risk into account.

Regarding the first point, it does no good to mount a massive defense against one aspect of a threat, while failing to guard against others. For example, spending the money to put a double deadbolt lock on the front door won't do much good if your back door is weak or unlocked.

Regarding risk, in many disciplines "risk" is generally defined as:


Problem severity x Problem likelihood

Usually you can't quantify either numerically, but in general terms this means that you need to consider both factors. For example, if something really bad could happen, but is virtually impossible, the risk is low. On the other hand, if something could happen that is only moderately bad, but is quite likely to happen, the risk is high.

In the "Preppers" show, several people were preparing for things (like a polar shift) that would be really bad if they ever happened, but are virtually impossible. Thus they are wasting time and money that could better be spent on larger risks.

In my case, one risk I face is loss of electric power. This does happen from time to time, so I now have a backup generator that runs off a large LP tank that could run for weeks if I am careful. On the other hand, a total breakdown of our society could happen, but I think it is unlikely (despite current trends), thus I am spending little money and time "prepping" for it.

For the same reason, I seldom utilize my privilege of carrying a firearm, because I perceive little actual risk of actual BGs.

(Sorry for the lengthy and perhaps esoteric post, but I deal with stuff like this in my consulting practice. This is the $1.98 version.)

By the way, I highly recommend that everyone have some firearms ... and a generator. ;)

[wyntrout]

I don't know about a lot of those things "Preppers" are all worried about, but I see EMP as the most possible and most devastating. We have many enemies who are capable and some who are becoming capable of such an attack. That's my main concern for stuff to worry about... not that I spend a lot of time worrying about that. I am trying to make a few prudent preparations to allay OUR fears... my wife and myself. I worry about her getting home from work if there's a sudden loss of all electronics... knocking out transportation, phones, radios, water, and sewer pumps and controls... meaning no police response capable, either.

If this really does happen, we probably won't last long , but we'll do the best we can. In this economic climate... the economy and our finances... we can't just start all over in a "better" location because most of our wealth is tied up in this house... and most of our income comes from the Government... two USAF Retired and my Social Security... plus my wife's job.

There will be a lot of desperate people who haven't done any planning at all and they will be looking to "share" whatever they can get their hands on. I don't figure that we can hold everyone off forever with only the two of us and no support from the neighbors... none that we could get any help from.

I have generators and guns and ammo and food for maybe a month or so, but I'm not going crazy getting ready for the big one... just taking a few steps that seem prudent and without great cost.

Running a generator when no one else has power is an advertisement for trouble... a sign that we have STUFF, so that will be of little benefit in a real emergency when there are mobs looking for food and anything else. It's nice for "normal" power outages of a temporary nature, though. I don't like to let the humidity get into the house and start mold and mildew. My big generator will pull the central air and a few things, but I can run anything if I turn the air off to use the stove or the hot water heater, etc. I've done tests and know what to expect, but mine runs off gasoline and re-supply is a problem if there's a long outage... and cost is a consideration, too, for more than a day or two!

Wynn:)

[AIRret]

Hey Wyntrout thanks for the pictures. They really help! Also it looks like we have the same safe; Winchester bought at Tractor supply. Protecting our safes is even more important since there is no key back-up
I find this thread very interesting.
With respect to the TV show some of these people should keep their mouths shut. They are advertising stock piles of supplies, where do you think bad guys are going to go looking.

[wyntrout]

Yeah, that was MY first thought, too, advertising all of their stuff. There will be a lot of people who want to share it, especially those hippie wannabes with no weapons.

Wynn:)

[Frankhenrylee]

I'm not sure what it takes to shield against an EMP, but I used to be a siding installer in my younger days and some of those skills may be useful here. Just about any siding guy can bend some aluminium or steel into just about any box type shape you want and probably pretty cheap too.

[downtownv]

LOL your Kindle will not work. Old cars and motorcycle (Pre computer will be the only thing able to.)
Read Damian Campbell -ADYA Clarity will turn your pee into drinking water. Let me know if you want any 32 oz will clean 320 gallons of Calcutta sewer water to drinkable! forget Berkies unless you have a lot off expensive filters!

[AIRret]

If the sh--- hits the fan don't you think the government will try to take out GUNS!!!!!
They took what they could during Katrina!
!

[wyntrout]

If the SHTF they'll be too busy. It will be too late at that point. If it's EMP, they won't be able to communicate or drive. They'll be worried about their own s#!t!

I'm going to start putting stuff in metal cans, boxes, and pots... I have a 10-gallon stainless stockpot with a lid... that I'm not using or want to survive EMP for use afterwards. I think that a lot of those military ammo cans might work, especially if you use metal tape around the lid to help cover the gap left by the rubber gasket. Several layers of tinfoil with an insulator between the layers should work... paper towels between layers.

Along with a folding bike for my wife, a FRS or GMRS radio protected against EMP would be good, but not work from her work place without me putting up an antenna after an attack... could be done. 9 miles on a 20" bike after not having ridden in MANY years... no fun... staying away from any people. That's why she needs a pistol. It makes no sense for me to leave home and ride a bike that way, not knowing where she is... and leaving our home undefended.:eek:

Wynn:)

[johnh]

Having devoted some time in a previous aspect of my life to the concept of EMP and other attacks on information technology, I must say that I too consider destruction of power and data infrastructure the most likely sudden collapse of civilization scenario. The grid is quite vulnerable in many ways to such forces--in particular coronal mass ejections. This did happen in the 1800s to a scale that would likely have taken down a modern power and communications grid. That is far more recent than any major asteroid impacts. :)

Having said that, I have also learned that there are many aspects of modern construction techniques that effectively block electromagnetic waves. You can see this when you are talking on a cell phone and walk into a modern concrete and steel structure. Steel re-bar and roofing materials, combined with thick concrete, often act as a pretty effective barrier against EMP. This leads me to wonder what sorts of equipment and facilities will survive such forces. One thing that comes to mind is data centers in large buildings. I have one on my network that is so centered in a building that it cannot receive cell signals for phones, and radio traffic breaks up. Not intentional--just a function of location. Much of that building severely dampens cell service.

A second thought is vehicles in parking garages. I suspect many will still work even after a short burst of EMP. There are likely many similar structures making up parts of power plants and other parts of the data grid. It may be that the connecting components outside the structures are what fail. This makes no difference as a grid is not a grid without the intervening web of connections. It might have implications for recovery. It might have implications for survival strategies of those who plan to recover. Ultimately the question is how long can a modern society function in a seriously degraded power and communications environment before the deterioration of social conditions is too extreme to allow for organized recovery.

Of course much of the world would not notice if their power and communications infrastructure vanished. That suggests this is more an issue for developed societies. The un or under developed countries might simply hobble along albeit short on access to modern conveniences they imported or adopted from developed nations.

[yqtszhj]

Most communications will fail in 5 days if we lose the power grid because they all use most of the same hubs. That's phones (landline & cellular), internet, etc... All go through the same facilities to get from place to place and you won't find more than 5 days worth of fuel for backup power at any location. Then how do you get fuel??? If a EMP/CME takes out the power equipment in the central offices via the power lines (generators and other power equipment) expect communications to fail within 8 hours. I saw this happen after Katrina.

Many of these main offices that I know about don't block cell signals and I can still make a call from inside the buildings unless in a basement or something like that. So the equipment may be zapped. Now equipment that is somewhat electrically shielded and grounded to keep form interfering with other equipment may make it but if there is no power then that's no help.

To John's question about how long could modern society function after power and communications failure? I would say 3-5 day before the crumbling begins. And the longer it goes on the longer it takes to regain control. Also look for armed civilian militias to block off roads to protect their stuff. Again Katrina in Mississippi and Louisiana proved this to be the case. And major metro areas are definitely not where you want to be.

[wyntrout]

Anything connected to the grid will conduct the EMP surge through power lines, antenna lines, and any electrical conduit. Having a electrical powered heating element inside your otherwise sealed, mechanical-combination-locked gun safe could allow the EMP pulse to reach the inside of the safe and destroy any electronics there. That's one thing I read along the way.

Inside the USA it will be hard to maintain a cohesive police or military force when the foremost thoughts on most members will be about their loved ones and homes. Gangs will certainly crop up, though, for mutual defense and exploiting the available resources... like your and your neighbors stuff!

Our country is located where the EMP pulse is greatly magnified due to the magnetic fields of the earth... lucky us.

It's possible to store electronic stuff shielded from EMP and bring it out for use after an attack... if there's no subsequent attack, you may have valuable electronics. I'm thinking communication and security aids like motion detectors and cameras. Two eyes can only see so much and you must be awake to see with those! Multiple unbroken, tinfoil wrapping... with insulation between layers can shield small radios and sensor equipment for use after an attack.

I have a bunch of ammo cans and am going to look at the 4 or 5 20mm cans that I'm not really using. I think they will be good if sealed with good metal duct tape or the metal automotive tape.

I think having some backup security equipment would be a good "force multiplier" for keeping up with what's going on outside your house... especially at night if you have blacked out light from the house. Night vision stuff would be good, too, for when the motion detector alerts you to intrusion.

Such equipment should be battery powered and preferably be 12-volt for using automotive batteries or replaceable batteries from a large store. Some kind of survivably stored solar recharging capability would be nice. I think that deployed solar panels and especially the electronic equipment will be toast. Even LED flashlights may be destroyed due to the overcurrent surge. Almost all electronics have tiny wires or "whiskers" measured in the microns in size and will just about evaporate. I think there's some debate about the actual solar panels, but they are exposed directly to the EMP burst when deployed. I haven't read enough but I do have an authoritative book on the way:
Disaster Preparedness for EMP Attacks and Solar Storms [Paperback]

Dr. Arthur T Bradley (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&ie=UTF8&field-author=Dr.%20Arthur%20T%20Bradley) (Author)




I really think that an EMP attack is our worst nightmare because many countries are already capable and several of the terrorist-supporting states are getting close. It IS the most effective use of one or a few small nukes.


Wynn:)

[johnh]

Very true, the power connection will likely be the breaking point for many items that are otherwise shielded. My impression is that surge protection likely makes no difference. I have not researched whether higher end battery backup and UPS devices would. Ultimately any computerized equipment that survives due to its advantageous environment, will likely be useless due to lack of connectivity or power.

I tend to assume the worst in this scenario, that even if components of the infrastructure are undamaged, the ability to repair the connections between them would be hampered to the point that it is essentially impossible. Replacement components would be impossible to produce if facilities that make them are waiting on replacement of components for failed manufacturing equipment. Essentially modern technology is completely reliant on modern technology to maintain it. It is a closed loop.

I think recovery times would be measured in at least decades, and that is assuming some coordinated effort by stable third world countries to help rebuild developed nations. That seems entirely optimistic and might not be something they were motivated to do. More likely the focus of "civilization" shifts to new parts of the globe.

[wyntrout]

A lot of people bemoan our stationing troops and equipment overseas, but that could be out salvation after an EMP attack... IF we could come up with the resolve to take the fight to the enemy that attacked us with EMP. I'm thinking the missile subs with mega-tonnage, too. There's some discussion about the PC notion of not attacking the attacker because the attack was less than lethal... just killed stuff, but millions could die. The first will be in some of those airplanes full of people when they might become gliders without controls. I don't know how those land-themselves airliners will do after an EMP attack. Our B-52's have cables and pulleys and stuff mechanical for controlling the aircraft manually. In fact, at the Radar Navigator station downstairs... Bombardier... almost standing, I could reach the rudder cables and wiggle the tail or make small turns... something pilots have been known to use to impress guests... voice control... as the RN moved the rudder at his request, while the pilot held his hands up off the yoke.:D

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I got the book Disaster Preparedness for EMP and Solar Storms by Arthur T. Bradley, Ph. D. from Amazon yesterday. I'm halfway through it... just over 100 pages. He says that some stuff might survive, but that most vulnerability came from a device being plugged into the power grid and/or attached to an external antenna. He did some testing with UPS's and those might help the best on some frequencies are the double-conversion models. I don't have those, but he says the testing wasn't done with destructive power levels as would be experienced in and EMP event. Most surge protection is effectively destroyed with the first real voltage spike... one-shot for all intents and purposes.

I can see the value of buying those cheap driveway monitors and shielding them for future use after an EMP attack. Those cheap battery-powered things for under $20 last a long time and do work. Wifey and I need sleep and can only see so much at one time, so help in detecting intruders would be great and not require a lot of expense. I could wrap half a dozen of those things in tinfoil and put them in one 20mm ammo can lined with cardboard to break the electrical connection to the exterior. Conventional batteries don't need shielding and could be stockpiled.

I'm even thinking of extra surveillance cameras being protected that way. Some small solar panels, too, could be protected to charge batteries later. And, at least some knid of night-vision device... the list gets longer.:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[yqtszhj]

You know it's a terrible thing to think about a catastrophe happening but on the other hand thinking about it and trying to plan for what may happen is somewhat comforting.

The wife is finally on board with preparing now. I have been trying to get her into this since 2 days after Katrina when we couldn't buy gas or food. She has even decided it's time to arm herself (yea,we get to buy more toys!!!)

[Chuck54]

WOW !

That dog bowl looks like it would make a better hat than the tin foil and it does not look like it would be to difficult to add a chin strap.











Just kidding............I couldn't help myself :D

Everyone should have a plan.

[wyntrout]

Wal-Mart had larger dog bowls... not cheapies made in China, either... India!

I think that these are stamped out by machines, though, not beat into shape by sub-teen semi-slaves.:rolleyes:

Wynn:D

[Bawanna]

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/27/8-must-have-guns-for-the-doomsday-prepper/?pid=441#image

Check out # 2 on the wish list. I still have a Socom, actually I want the Scout Squad on my want list.

[wyntrout]

Well, I still have something on the list. I used to have a sweet .44 like that one, but just didn't NEED it as much as the money.

I'm starting to feel like I have too many guns because I can't exercise them ALL enough. NOW I'm talking with Wifey about a gun for her. I let her hold and get familiar with my P380 today. I put the 7-round extended grip in it for her and talked her through working the slide and the magazine and how the empty magazine pushes up on the slide lock, etc. She wanted to give up on racking it, but was soon doing that okay. I figure I can load it with those Ranger T's since they are lighter in recoil and have good performance. The trouble is that I would rather see her use a CW9 or a maybe good deal on a P9. I could work on reducing the spring strength and maybe get it ported, but I don't think that would be necessary.

I don't want to lose the use of my P380! I wear that in and around the house... unnoticeable... and I wore it with my C.O.M. Kydex IWB clip-on holster today, so I could take it off and discretely put it in my folder... along with my knife, phone, and book while doing the disrobing bit... dermatologist. You just never know when a disgruntled former employee or P.O.'d patient might decide to clean out the office... go "postal". My PM9 is half again that size and my usual EDC. I have other choices, but the PM9 just works... that and an 8-round reload.

I'm hoping the range has a CW9 for rental and she can try one out... that or just let her try handling a few in the store. I've sure missed some good deals on here with regard to the P380, CW9, and great P9! And the next gun shows are late June and July! I could have gotten a new CW9 for $340 or less... wasn't really paying attention... wasn't in the market at that point! Bummer!

Her bike arrives tomorrow and I got some slime to put in the tires and add some more to mine... haven't used it in 2 or 3 years... bought new street tires that came with Slime in them and they're flat!:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[QuercusMax]

I'm starting to fell like I have too many guns because I can't exercise them ALL enough.

Amen, brother. This is a terrible problem, and one for which I have not found the answer. Please let me know if you come up with a good solution!

[ptoemmes]

Amen, brother. This is a terrible problem, and one for which I have not found the answer. Please let me know if you come up with a good solution!

Hmmm...if one can be a "professional" dog walker than why not a "professional" gun shooter - I mean - exerciser?

Pick them up at 9:00, take them to the range, work them out, clean them up, and put them all back nice and tidy before the owners get back from work.

I need a job...

Pete

[tv_racin_fan]

Hmmm...if one can be a "professional" dog walker than why not a "professional" gun shooter - I mean - exerciser?

Pick them up at 9:00, take them to the range, work them out, clean them up, and put them all back nice and tidy before the owners get back from work.

I need a job...

Pete

That sure sounds like a job I might enjoy.

[downtownv]

Anyone with a min-gun that need a work out?

[wyntrout]

Talking to co-workers and friends:

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/20000/6000/100/126195/126195.strip.sunday.gif

Wynn:D

[johnh]

That is too funny! It goes on the bulletin board at the office tomorrow. :D

[wyntrout]

I post it every once in a while... July 31, 2011 Dilbert.

I love Dilbert.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Two other favorites from Dilbert, January 26 & 27, 2009:

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/30000/9000/700/39705/39705.strip.gif

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/30000/9000/700/39706/39706.strip.gif

Wynn:D

[jlottmc]

Ok along the same lines, I ask this and ask it here for a reason. First let me preface this by saying that I don't have enough facts to support an opinion one way or the other, and that I am not interested in the politics etc of the case. How many of you feel prepared for the race riots that will likely follow if G. Zimmerman is tried and acquitted, or not tried at all, or the opposite he is found guilty and the Hispanic population starts up etc? This could lead to a lot of civil unrest either way, and that is something that is very likely to happen. So, are you prepared for that, and how do you do so (hunker down, or flee to somewhere else)? I'll ask one more then let the flame wars begin, how do you disperse a crowd near your place to hunker down?

[DKD]

I thought about this when this incident first occured and I wondered how long before someone else brought it up. I am inclined to agree with you....very possible indeed.
I would think it would be prudent to have local people / neiborhood groups of like minded people clan together for the common defense. There is better strength in numbers especially against larger groups of bad guys. I saw this happen first hand after hurrican Andrew down in South Florida when there was no police or militay to provide some security. Training and organization would be the key to pull off a strong defense.

[jocko]

Ok along the same lines, I ask this and ask it here for a reason. First let me preface this by saying that I don't have enough facts to support an opinion one way or the other, and that I am not interested in the politics etc of the case. How many of you feel prepared for the race riots that will likely follow if G. Zimmerman is tried and acquitted, or not tried at all, or the opposite he is found guilty and the Hispanic population starts up etc? This could lead to a lot of civil unrest either way, and that is something that is very likely to happen. So, are you prepared for that, and how do you do so (hunker down, or flee to somewhere else)? I'll ask one more then let the flame wars begin, how do you disperse a crowd near your place to hunker down?

humm: maybe the hispanics and the blacks will go at it with each other. If that be the case I will sit on my porch and drink a beer.:behindsofa:

[Mike_B]

Riots? Another great reason to not live in "the city". I like livin' out with the "country folk"....

[JFootin]

I'm glad I moved from near Atlanta to the hillbilly country of Western North Carolina!

http://www.toonpool.com/user/250/files/cousin_gus_458585.jpg

[Bawanna]

I think it's absolutely inevitable. If it doesn't happen Sharpton, Jesse, and probably Rosie O'D are just losing their touch. They are working it into a frenzy as we speak.

Just have to wait for it.

It'll be hispanic and black against white. You can take that to the bank and draw interest.

Too bad our front porches are so far apart Jocko, I'd join you.

[jocko]

now they are showing footage "enhanced" showing definite head wounds to the back of zimmermans head.

Gret one, u jcontrol um oput west and ol jocko will take care of um in Indiana and we will let CJB take care of um in florida. I think I still have my uncles civil war uniforum around here somewhere. Looks like Noarthern agression will rise again.!!! Just sayin.

[Tinman507]

I think it was brought up earlier in this thread or others, but wait for it.....

There will be an incident or series of incidents that will further divide this country just in time for the elections.

Sorry if this crosses the political line, but it is reality.

[Bawanna]

I think it was brought up earlier in this thread or others, but wait for it.....

There will be an incident or series of incidents that will further divide this country just in time for the elections.

Sorry if this crosses the political line, but it is reality.

Totally agree.

We now return you to Preparedness isn't just for Preppy's on your local channels. Had this been an actual emergency you would have been instructed to turn to one of your other local channels that probably wouldn't work anyhow after an EMP. So place head between legs, pucker up and kiss your self adios.

Happy trails.

[AIRret]

Hey Wyntrout, did you ever come up with a grounding strap for the back of your safe lock?

For the rest of the gang; recently there was a guy on the prepare show that used a metal trash can for a faraday (spelling?) cage. Do you think that would really work against EMP? He tested his by hooking it up to a car battery and the walkie talkies still worked.

[MW surveyor]

For the rest of the gang; recently there was a guy on the prepare show that used a metal trash can for a faraday (spelling?) cage. Do you think that would really work against EMP? He tested his by hooking it up to a car battery and the walkie talkies still worked.

Not sure if a metal trash can would work but if you can get some copper screening material, that works great. Exactly what the Faraday cages are made out of. You could make one big enough to shield your car/truck or what have you.

[DaveInCA]

I worked at a place that did government radio equipment for a bit. The best faraday cage is made from copper, either solid (expensive) or wire mesh.
You would want to ground the cage, and if the safe is part of that then you need to ground that. Ideally you would want to have some of those springy metal fingers (look up emi finger stock) attached to the safe with screws to electrically bond the cover to the safe itself.
A simple way would be to put your gun safe in cabinet. Line the cabinet with copper mesh top, bottom and sides and have the EMI finger stock make a good connection with the doors.
Oh, and ground it well. As short a run as possible to a cold water pipe or 6' ground rod with a good sized wire, say #6 although a #14 would probably do. If you are in a commercial building then building steel is an option.
In theory, a perfect cage wouldn't need grounding but the ground will drain the pulse into the earth just in case your cage isn't perfect.:)
I have an old fashioned dial lock. 100 years from now it will still be working fine.
Just an aside, how many of you have changed the combo on your dial locks? No one has mine except my wife and I. If we both drop dead then they can drill the sucker.

[AIRret]

We are protecting the electronic lock on the safe the same way Wyntrout did. The Faraday cage would be for other electronics.
I appreciate the information. We are trying to be reasonabley prepared for most disasters without being totally paranoid. Being totally paranoid can be depressing.

[wyntrout]

An all-metal trash can will work... with a tight fitting lid, but the stuff inside needs to be insulated from the metal can. This is true of any "Farraday cage" AND it doesn't need grounding but that will help take a lot of the charge or pulse to the ground. The case itself is charged by the pulse and if anything intrudes or passes through the cage... like a power line or antenna cable, then the pulse is carried to that device and re-radiated inside.

Military ammo cans are supposed to be good, but I wonder about the rubber seal. I would want to use metal tape over that area between the lid and the can. And again, the stuff inside needs to be insulated from touching the metal case.

Several layers of tinfoil can be used with an insulating layer between the two.

The painters finished my house today and I still have other projects ongoing. I've lost 8 pounds or so the last week and hope to keep them off... been busy!

I want to get to the range and shoot the Wifey's new P380 and try out my 10/22's new scope, but just haven't had the time.:(

Wynn:)

[AIRret]

Thanks, wyntrout that helps.

[DKD]

WYNTROUT, on those military ammo cans, just rub alittle vasiline over the rubber gasket and close her up and you will be good to go for many years.

[DKD]

Personally I use military ammo cans, and vacuum seal my long term storage ammo, place in the cans witha pack of desicant and you are good to go.

[wyntrout]

I've had no problems with my cans and have had some for 30 years or more. I would think that silicone spray or a smidgen of silicone grease would be better to make the rubber last. The metal tape is to stop the EMP pulse from getting through the gap in metal contact that is the rubber gasket.

I have 5 of the 20mm cans, at least half a dozen of the .50 cal cans, several .30 cal cans and now two of the SAW ammo cans... like new and swallow a whole case or more of .45 ammo... which is pretty heavy!

And now I have 4 of those Cabela's plastic cans, too.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I did that with some of my .22 ammo... most of it, actually... my 'prepper" supply. I have one of those Foodsaver Vacuums and love it.

All of my ammo is in the ammo cans with desiccant, except the ready for use SD and a little FMJ for the range.

Wynn:)

[DKD]

Wyn, I really don't think an EMP would have any effect on ammo at all. I can cause some issues with electronic's but I doubt it could affect our ammo. Are you concerened with the primers being set off?

[wyntrout]

NO! Absolutely not. I'm just trying to protect them from the humidity and exposure to our more corrosive "air" within 135 yards of the river and brackish water. It's pretty corrosive and surprised my with the quickness that GALVANIZED fence screws all but evaporated! I switched to stainless for repairs.

I consider the ammo cans and a half-fist-sized desiccant bag or two enough for most centerfire ammo. The "bulk" of my .22 "prepper" ammo I have vacuum-bagged and put in ammo cans... some in the plastic Cabela's "cans".

I have had a little trouble with loaded and unloaded from guns, .22LR lead bullets with non-metallic coating getting too "fuzzy" and not chambering well... also a few too many duds. I tried to get some copper-plated .22 in subsonic and regular velocities to lessen that buildup of corrosion, lint, or whatever! Vacuum packing will hold that down, too. Some of that stuff has a sticky lubricant coating, too.:(

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Another goody for people who want to be prepared for more!

http://tihk1.refr.cc/6WHZTKD

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0328/8057/files/TIHK_EvadeClip_R01A_1024x1024.jpg?3983071706383949 389