Alternate magazine followers

[Gliderguy]

I have been studying how much room there is at the bottom of a .40 5 round magazine and wondering why Kahr didn't use a thin, metal follower instead of the bulky polymer and get room for that 6th round in the "flush" fit magazine. I know there has been some discussion about an extra round using 1911 magazine followers in I think a CW45. I can see there is easily enough room to get the 6th round in, plus maybe .60 inches below the follower for the spring, but not totally sure about the extra 3/16" or so that the round would have to depress to let the gun cycle. Seems like the .45 also had the issue of the slide lock tab not being at quite the right height to reliably lock back the slide on an empty magazine.

also wondering if anyone has the Wolff magazine springs and if they would compress any smaller than stock before getting to spring bind. It seems the factory magazine spring has about 14 coils of .04 diameter wire for a bound length of about .54 or .55 inches.

This is not something I would count on in a carry situation without HUNDREDS of rounds of reliability testing, but is an interesting technical issue that might be fun to explore for a range mag or two.

Any discussion?

[Gliderguy]

Well, 60 views later no one is touching this one. Might have to explore it on my own but I am not even sure what other single stack .40's are out there other than the Firestar that I recently sold. (Just try finding extra followers for a Star product nowadays!) Still looks just doable all dependent upon the magazine spring and how much space it will need before reaching coil bind, and again, I know I am going to need some free play beyond just getting the loaded magazine in the gun. I suppose if the other PM/CM 40 owners out there had other single stack 40 pistols they would have already tried this and I would have already read their thread on the matter....

[muggsy]

I have been studying how much room there is at the bottom of a .40 5 round magazine and wondering why Kahr didn't use a thin, metal follower instead of the bulky polymer and get room for that 6th round in the "flush" fit magazine. I know there has been some discussion about an extra round using 1911 magazine followers in I think a CW45. I can see there is easily enough room to get the 6th round in, plus maybe .60 inches below the follower for the spring, but not totally sure about the extra 3/16" or so that the round would have to depress to let the gun cycle. Seems like the .45 also had the issue of the slide lock tab not being at quite the right height to reliably lock back the slide on an empty magazine.

also wondering if anyone has the Wolff magazine springs and if they would compress any smaller than stock before getting to spring bind. It seems the factory magazine spring has about 14 coils of .04 diameter wire for a bound length of about .54 or .55 inches.

This is not something I would count on in a carry situation without HUNDREDS of rounds of reliability testing, but is an interesting technical issue that might be fun to explore for a range mag or two.

Any discussion?

I don't know why Kahr chose a polymer follower, but I think that your concept of replacing it with a metal follower has some merit. Wolff makes the gun springs that are used in Kahr firearms.

[Ljutic]

I've done the 1911 Officer conversion for the CW45 and it was tricky to find the right tube, spring, and follower combo that would work 100% of the time AND lock the slide back. Kahr followers are unique. The fine gentleman that started that conversion craze actuall uses Kahr followers in his mags so he's still at factory capacity, but does have a flush fit.

Since the PM40 mags fit almost flush, there hasn't been a big push to do any conversion. I will say the 6 round PM40 mag is really long so I doubt a simple follower change will allow us to cram 6 into the 5 round mag.

If you want to try it, look at the makers with single stack 9mm guns and see if the have a 40 in the same platform. Taurus and Baretta both make a single stack 9, they may have a similar 40.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Redfish]

My experience with these issues. Magazine followers on PM-40: Have broken 2. Same place. Weak spot where front of follower connects. Could use metal or just better plastic design. Compact enough to get in extra round and still have enough bearing surface to slide smoothly? Beyond my knowledge base to answer. I've recently replaced the springs in all of my mags with Wolff extra strength springs. Reason is because I keep one loaded all of the time. I do rotate them. Currently have 3. Getting extra strength springs in place was interesting.

[Gliderguy]

Well, I have snooped around and purchased a couple of single stack metal magazine followers for various 40 S&W single stack magazines. Will let the world at large know if any of them pan out There is a little bit of urgency now that I have actually broken a (heavily modified) Kahr follower :popcorn:

Have a couple of spare mags on the way as well...:w00t:

[TucsonMTB]

Well, I have snooped around and purchased a couple of single stack metal magazine followers for various 40 S&W single stack magazines. Will let the world at large know if any of them pan out There is a little bit of urgency now that I have actually broken a (heavily modified) Kahr follower :popcorn:

Have a couple of spare mags on the way as well...:w00t:
Cool! Will be waiting with fingers crossed. Before their big fire, I ordered some followers from Tripp Research, but they never arrived. You will need something with a skirt in the front. I tried modifying a standard "devel" style follower, but without a front skirt it is a NO GO.

Best of luck!

[Gliderguy]

Recieved my Sig P239 magazine followers to try in the PM40 magazines. follower is a drop in fit with a long enough nose skirt to work with the magazine, but the drop point that catches the slide lock is dropped at least 1/8 inch to low to actually activate the slide lock. It looks like some material could be added to the follower to make the slide lock back. Function test as soon as I can get out and shoot some. Will post some pictures as soon as I get them up on photobucket.

[Gliderguy]

I am thinking the metal bit that catches the slide lock is the source of all evil in a Kahr magazine follower. I think it occasionally catches the magazine shell as the gun cycles on the last round and really torques the follower hard, breaking out the metal tab and the left front or all the front of the mag follower. Has anyone broken a Kahr follower without breaking out the metal tab? or anywhere besides the front, or left front skirt?

[jocko]

I have sdeen very very very few followers tat broke where the metal tab is located. I personallyu do not fele the follower metal tab is binding anywhere in the mag tube. I have seen on this forum some of the metal tabs have gotten loose and moved outward and then it will bind but once noticed and pushed back in for epoxyied back in or replaced all was well..

[Deano]

As far as the Wolff Springs, I purchased some for my mags that were having troubles after solving the problem with the follower mod and slingshot mod. I bought the +5% 7 round and the +5% 6 round springs to try in my 7 round mags. The springs are exactly the same length as the factory springs, just a little stiffer. The 6 round spring has two less turns. Both the Wolff 6 and 7 work perfectly in my 7 round mags. I haven't tried getting an eighth round in the 7 rounder with the wolff 6 spring. This thread makes me wonder if it will fit, and I'm going to test that out. I'll let you know what I figure out.

[TucsonMTB]

I am thinking the metal bit that catches the slide lock is the source of all evil in a Kahr magazine follower. I think it occasionally catches the magazine shell as the gun cycles on the last round and really torques the follower hard, breaking out the metal tab and the left front or all the front of the mag follower. Has anyone broken a Kahr follower without breaking out the metal tab? or anywhere besides the front, or left front skirt?At least in the case of the half dozen that broke for me before trimming the feed ramps in my PM40's, the metal tab is not involved. Mine all snapped off cleanly at the lower edge of the horizontal part of the follower. Admittedly, I usually sand down the edge of the metal tab to make it move smoothly in the magazine, if necessary.


Recieved my Sig P239 magazine followers to try in the PM40 magazines. follower is a drop in fit with a long enough nose skirt to work with the magazine, but the drop point that catches the slide lock is dropped at least 1/8 inch to low to actually activate the slide lock. It looks like some material could be added to the follower to make the slide lock back. Function test as soon as I can get out and shoot some. Will post some pictures as soon as I get them up on photobucket.
Could you provide a link to your source for followers? Pretty please? I'd like to price them. If there is enough material in the follower, you can drill a small vertical hole to accept a metal screw with the head providing the same function as the metal tab. I saw that in a thread here contributed by a guy who manufactured his own replacement followers. I think he had one of those neat, 3-D solid printers. Anyway, he reported success with small screws. I would be leery of trying to glue anything into that location. The small vertical screw hole shouldn't compromise the strength of the follower, in my opinion.

I will be watching for pictures! :D

[Gliderguy]

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-magazine-follower_p239-40-357-7rd.html

Getting a screw hole in the right place will be trickey because it has to be RIGHT at the bend. maybe some threaded rod with an allen head cut into it. If it is too long it will do weird things with where the spring touches the follower. It looks like a piece of 1/8 square rod wedged into the corner and either epoxied or welded would be perfect, now who can weld 1/8 inch material and leave a tiny bead?
Edit: have some pictures now. I do have some concern whether the follower will inadvertently activate the magazine release, the stock follower has been relieved in that area to prevent that. The Sig follower is not quite as long in the nose skirt as the stock, but it seems to be well within the magazine anyway.

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/th_IMG_6492.jpg (http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/?action=view&current=IMG_6492.jpg)

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/th_IMG_6493.jpg (http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/?action=view&current=IMG_6493.jpg)


http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/th_IMG_6494.jpg (http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/?action=view&current=IMG_6494.jpg)


http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/th_IMG_6495.jpg (http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/?action=view&current=IMG_6495.jpg)

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/th_IMG_6498.jpg (http://s909.photobucket.com/albums/ac296/gliderguy/?action=view&current=IMG_6498.jpg)

[TucsonMTB]

Getting a screw hole in the right place will be trickey because it has to be RIGHT at the bend. maybe some threaded rod with an allen head cut into it. If it is too long it will do weird things with where the spring touches the follower. It looks like a piece of 1/8 square rod wedged into the corner and either epoxied or welded would be perfect, now who can weld 1/8 inch material and leave a tiny bead?
Edit: have some pictures now. I do have some concern whether the follower will inadvertently activate the magazine release, the stock follower has been relieved in that area to prevent that. The Sig follower is not quite as long in the nose skirt as the stock, but it seems to be well within the magazine anyway.
Thanks! I guess the proof will in the shooting.

I must say that you spotted an excellent replacement candidate. The angle looks great. Being metal, I doubt that the feed ramp can damage it. Who knows, it might even lock back despite the greater clearance.

Thanks for being willing to pioneer the search for a more durable follower! I am going to be patient and wait for your range report.

[Gliderguy]

If you do pursue this, the shipping was pretty steep, around 10 bucks. Reccomend getting several to even out the bite. Looks like it will be a few days before I can make a couple of hours to put enough rounds through for a reasonable evaluation. I have two followers, may try to mod one to operate the slide lock and leave the other stock for an a/b comparison.

[TucsonMTB]

Thanks for the heads up on shipping . . . another good reason to wait for your evaluation. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

[Gliderguy]

Good news and expected mediocre news:

I fired 100 rounds through two different 5 round magazines. I always started with a full magazine and one in the chamber and ran the gun empty each time, so that was 18 full mags + a partial finishing magazine. No failures to feed or eject, and no cases of the magazine release being triggered by the follower, which was a very real worry. I ran two different magazines both with the stock Sig follower, just to see if there was any variation.

As expected, neither magazine ever locked the slide back once empty.

Now the job is to find some small stock piece of metal that is readily avialable and learning the best way to attach it to the existing follower. My first thought is to find the half-moon keys commonly used to secure flywheels and the like to rotating shafts. If there is a common size that is a perfect fit a small screw could be drilled through the pieces and locktited. (unless someone tells me they are made of hardened steel and can't be drilled) Next though is small diameter rectangular stock, but this would likely have to be epoxied or maybe brazed to the follower.

Questions for the machinist and welders out there:

Can you braze two metal parts together that don't fit perfectly flush? I suspect with the bending used to make the follower that it is no longer a perfectly flat surface.

I also wonder about if any heat treating was likely used on the follower (I think doubtful but don't know)

Finally, any proponents of simply doing a good clean and roughing of the surfaces and epoxying them together?

For either the brazing or epoxy job, I wonder which would accept a re-bluing of the follower without looking too ratty.

Probably won't be another update for a while until I learn enough to do a good mod on at least one of the followers to see if we can get the slide lock to work.

[Gliderguy]

Quick update:

When I took the gun down for cleaning, I saw that the feed ramp lower left edge had been hitting the follower. Enough to leave a mark on the feed ramp lower left edge. Hmmm. guess the busted followers are all about a slightly too long feed ramp or out of spec slide lock pin "jellybean" cutout.

was able to polish out the minor ding with 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper in a few minutes, but has given me pause on how much it would be safe to shoot these followers. I noticed the design of the Kahr follower has the upper part of the follower nose set back from the front of the magazine maybe a millimeter- now I think I know why. Any mod to the stock follower that makes the follower ride higher up before hitting the magazine lips starts to expose the lower front follower to hammering by the feed ramp on ejecting the last round from an empty magazine. Now just about all the weird contortions and shapes that define the shape of the stock follower have been explained to me except perhaps for the weird bevel, and I suspect that is to keep the forces of loading the magazine centered or to the rear of the spring force "vector", as so not to rock the follower forwards in the magazine and stress that little front nose skirt.

This may be a tougher nut to crack than I thought. Stay tuned....

(and if you are running any kind of metal non stock follower on any Kahr handgun I would recommend keeping a close eye on the lower end of your feedramp for signs of impact)

[TucsonMTB]

This may be a tougher nut to crack than I thought. Stay tuned....

(and if you are running any kind of metal non stock follower on any Kahr handgun I would recommend keeping a close eye on the lower end of your feedramp for signs of impact)
Yeah, the stock plastic follower just breaks when the ramp hits it . . .

However, I used a rubber abrasive wheel to polish off enough material from my feed ramps to prevent the ramp from hitting stock magazine followers. I tried to retain the shape of the original as much as possible and polished with a small buffing wheel afterwards.

Both guns still run well. One has even been back to Kahr for a warranty frame replacement, without comment by Kahr. :)

Edited to add: Thanks for the update! I wonder if there is enough room for an additional round with the metal follower?

[Gliderguy]

Not with a stock spring. maybe could almost get 6 in the mag but no freeplay to insert mag nevermind the extra room to cycle the gun.

DID get 7 in a 6 round though!!!!!!! and could cycle the gun by hand fine....:biggrin1:

6 in a 5 would take doing the same job with maybe three less coils on the spring...


7 in 6 took using a 6 round spring AND the thinner metal base plate retainer. it is so close that the thicker plastic baseplate retainer made the gun bind a bit on hand racking in the first round. With it being that close I could see how individual guns might not work depending on which side of the manufacturing tolerances it was on.

Wonder if there are flat metal "z" or "w" springs that can provide the same force in a smaller vertical package...

[Gliderguy]

Or wonder if you can have a spring that alternates between two slightly different sizes of coil outer dimension every other coil such that two sets of coils nest beside each other in roughly half the space of a conventional wound spring...

[TucsonMTB]

Thank you for giving it a try! http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

Some of the 1911 magazine springs have varying coil section diameters to make them nest. The springs like that in my spare parts box have a narrower top section compared to the bottom. When I was goofing around with a cut down 1911 follower, it seemed like an extra round would fit using a Kimber compact spring. But, the followers I have just did not work at all. No skirt, unlike the SIG followers you found.

It may be time for me to file down a spare Kahr plastic follower to see if I can find enough room for an added round. Most likely, I will just destroy the follower. My projects go like that sometimes. :rolleyes:

Edited to add: Yep! Epic failure! Even with two coils cut off the magazine spring and the follower hogged out with my Dremel to the point that the end of the spring was in contact with the bottom round . . . there just is not enough room to insert 6 rounds and expect the gun to function. Oh well. Don't waste any of your time on the concept. Sorry!

You seem to be making great progress. Super glue or Red Loctite would probably be strong enough to use while you perfect the size and placement of the part you are thinking of adding to actuate the slide lock.

On the other hand, at least one Kel-Tec carry gun that I can think of has no automatic slide lock. Neither does the Ruger LCP which copied the P-3AT design.

[Gliderguy]

Yeah, most of my projects are nothing to write on a forum about... If I had access to some sheet metal working tools I have a concept in mind of how to build a metal follower that might do everything right, but i suspect it would take half a day to build just one...

If you are only carrying the mag in the gun with no spares, who cares if the slide locks back. Or carry a stock magazine in the gun with a 7 in 6 modified spare mag. Once you are out of ammo, why advertize with the slide locked back?

[Gliderguy]

Just spent more than half a day trying fabricate a follower. It SEEMS to be functional, and incorporates all I know about Kahr followers. Needs a little polishing and trimming (vertically too long) but for a first attempt at 16 gauge sheet metal work, I am satisfied with it for a prototype....:w00t:

[TucsonMTB]

Just spent more than half a day trying fabricate a follower. It SEEMS to be functional, and incorporates all I know about Kahr followers. Needs a little polishing and trimming (vertically too long) but for a first attempt at 16 gauge sheet metal work, I am satisfied with it for a prototype....:w00t:
Awesome! Standing by for your range report . . .

Oh, and just a reminder that Edison had some incredible number (thousands) of failed incandescent lamp experiments before he finally succeeded in developing the electric light bulb we all now take for granted. ;)

[Gliderguy]

Somehow I think the market for incandescent lightbulbs has been a bit more lucrative than the market for PM40 followers:D

Short of trying to fabricate some jigs to make the operation repeatable, they will definitely have a hand-made look to them. If I only had a mill...

The only problem so far is loading, it requires more than normal force to load the magazine, but seems free running when the weapon is cycled. Might be twisting and wedging slightly when depressed. It really is ugly once I brazed one seam/corner, made it semi blued and semi not blued (with a little bronze highlights...)

[Gliderguy]

Tucson, do you have a part number for that Kimber spring that may compress flatter than stock? would it still fit in a .40 magazine with more than about 3/32 free play width wise and maybe 3/16 freeplay front to back? My follower has 16 guage metal along the left side of the magazine so I can recess the nose and still get up to reach the slide lock. if it was a 45 spring bet it would be tight.
wonder if the 9mm springs are much smaller than the 40 in overall compressed height and width wise?

[TucsonMTB]

Tucson, do you have a part number for that Kimber spring that may compress flatter than stock? would it still fit in a .40 magazine with more than about 3/32 free play width wise and maybe 3/16 freeplay front to back? My follower has 16 guage metal along the left side of the magazine so I can recess the nose and still get up to reach the slide lock. if it was a 45 spring bet it would be tight.
wonder if the 9mm springs are much smaller than the 40 in overall compressed height and width wise?
Not much help, sorry. The 1911 magazine springs that I thought would work are too large front to back for the Kahr 40 magazine tube. Yeah, I tried everything in my accumulation of magazine springs from Kimber and Tripp Research.

If you are wondering about the Kahr 9mm springs, they are the same as the "fotay" springs. Sorry.

Oh, and the springs that I really expected to work were from a couple of ProMag magazines (http://www.promagindustries.com/product-p/kar%2004n.htm) (not recommended). Unfortunately, they are really soft and have more coils than the Kahr springs. Even with any nesting effect they might achieve, they end up with greater stack height than the Kahr springs.

Guess I am not holding up my end of the plank very well . . . :o

[Gliderguy]

Status update: on my third attempted hand built follower, and have yet to beat the first one for functionality. NO extra capacity, only plus is a metal follower that seems to avoid being hit by the feed ramp upon cycling. Made it from 16 gauge stock, think 18 would have been a bit better. Tried building up one of the Sig followers with a 3/8 x 1/8 inch woodruff key, but it still seems to magically just miss activating the slide lock.

Successes to date: getting 7 rounds into a 6 round mag with the Sig follower, shorter spring, and metal baseplate retainer. No slide lockback on the last round, but if you only carry one spare mag it can now have one more round in it. It may be hitting the feed ramp on some firearms.

I guess we just need to do a lost wax casting of the existing polymer follower out of some relatively soft metal, (not a metalurgist, dont know if lost wax process and aluminum can go together or not)

If anyone knows of a magazine spring that fits the 40 cal magazines and has significantly less stack height than stock, we might be able to do 6 in a 5 but still haven't solved the lockback problem in an easy to repeat way.

May post pictures of the evolution of hand built followers soon, but it will look like a bunch of sheet metal that has been beat with an ugly stick.

[ramblynman]

I have just acquired a new cw45 and found a Kimber commander mag works except for the locking back on the last round. What actually did you do to fix this problem. I am thinking that I will just make sure that I use that mag last so when I am out of ammo it will not matter. I do like the fact that the Kimber is flush in the pistol though. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Roger (a new member and a Kahr lover).

[wyntrout]

Dang! I knew I had seen different coils on the same mag springs, but the ones I was thinking about are the XD45... double stack... 5 or so narrow at the top then opening up to 5 or 6 larger ones.

I do have some 1911 mag springs that have different coil shapes in one spring. I'll have to look for those. I have odds and ends somewhere... never throw anything away!

Wynn:)

[CJB]

My experience with these issues. Magazine followers on PM-40: Have broken 2. Same place. Weak spot where front of follower connects. Could use metal or just better plastic design. Compact enough to get in extra round and still have enough bearing surface to slide smoothly? Beyond my knowledge base to answer. I've recently replaced the springs in all of my mags with Wolff extra strength springs. Reason is because I keep one loaded all of the time. I do rotate them. Currently have 3. Getting extra strength springs in place was interesting.

Its not a follower problem that breaks 'em. Its a barrel ramp problem.

Field strip the pistol, then put the barrel back in without the slide. Stick the slide stop pin thru its hole enough to hold the barrel. Insert a magazine, and press the barrel backward and down as far as it will go. Thats how it is under recoil in the feeding cycle. You'll see the ramp is just barely touching the follower - expecially if you manipulate the follower a little.

The fix is to remove just a hair of material from the tip of the ramp... There's ample material there and note too that the tip of the ramp is also very slightly angled, in accordance with its offset design.

[muggsy]

Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. The idea of a stamped follower to increase magazine capacity should be run by a magazine manufacturer like Tripple K, MecGar, Or Shooting Star. They've made a fortune making eight round mags for the 1911s.

[wyntrout]

Someone should be able to get 6 rounds into one of the 5-round PM45 mags by using a stamped metal follower and a flat metal base plate. I HAVE gotten 6 into the tube by mixing parts from 1911 mags, but it was pretty tight and the polymer base plate takes up too much space.

One of the many problems for the Kahr magazine design is the LOW opening on the front of the tube... requiring a LONG skirt on the follower. The less-than-tube-filling spring and space-taking polymer components take up too much space. 1911 springs can vary quite a bit and are usually tailored at the top to support the follower and keep it in place. Most of the mixes with these components don't give the support needed to the follower and don't work to hold the slide open on empty, which is important to me.

I don't like the polymer bases and switch to metal bases when I can. I don't need the pinky support and want the most concealable base.

Wynn:)

[garyb]

Good luck on your initiative. Have not had any follow problems on my PM40 (yet). Still have all my original mags 5&6 rounders in addition to 3 extra 6 rounders with the poly bases. Every time I read about the problem it makes me wonder what's going on. It does not seem to be narrowed down precisely to specifically WHY or WHAT causes the problem, nor the ultimate solution. Also read that the problem is with all the cals, but more predominant with the 40... but don't really know for sure if this is an accurate fact. Not sure where the facts are coming from. Wish Kahr would work it out....and hope you can. In the meanwhile, my PM40's mags and followers remain flawless....but perhaps it is just a matter of time????

[muggsy]

I have been studying how much room there is at the bottom of a .40 5 round magazine and wondering why Kahr didn't use a thin, metal follower instead of the bulky polymer and get room for that 6th round in the "flush" fit magazine. I know there has been some discussion about an extra round using 1911 magazine followers in I think a CW45. I can see there is easily enough room to get the 6th round in, plus maybe .60 inches below the follower for the spring, but not totally sure about the extra 3/16" or so that the round would have to depress to let the gun cycle. Seems like the .45 also had the issue of the slide lock tab not being at quite the right height to reliably lock back the slide on an empty magazine.

also wondering if anyone has the Wolff magazine springs and if they would compress any smaller than stock before getting to spring bind. It seems the factory magazine spring has about 14 coils of .04 diameter wire for a bound length of about .54 or .55 inches.

This is not something I would count on in a carry situation without HUNDREDS of rounds of reliability testing, but is an interesting technical issue that might be fun to explore for a range mag or two.

Any discussion?

I talked to Jay at Kahr Service and he said that the reason that Kahr sticks with the polymer followers is that there were so many anal retentive idiots (AKA Kahr Owners) who complained about the metal magazine base plates on the PM/CM9 magazines that Kahr didn't want to create a fuss by changing them. He also swore me to secrecy, knowing full well that I can't keep my mouth shut and said that he would deny that he gave that as a reason if I ever told anyone. So there you have it, the truth as it is known only to Muggsy. :)

[garyb]

Interesting intell

[wakajawaka]

Not directly applicable but might give someone an idea...

http://magguts.com/

[jocko]

I talked to Jay at Kahr Service and he said that the reason that Kahr sticks with the polymer followers is that there were so many anal retentive idiots (AKA Kahr Owners) who complained about the metal magazine base plates on the PM/CM9 magazines that Kahr didn't want to create a fuss by changing them. He also swore me to secrecy, knowing full well that I can't keep my mouth shut and said that he would deny that he gave that as a reason if I ever told anyone. So there you have it, the truth as it is known only to Muggsy. :)

ur totally deaf in both ears, u expect us to believe this dribble or did Jay hand sigh for u over the phone and then u could understand better. Just sayin:Amflag2:

He didn't swear u to secrecy, he called u a dumb fokk and u took it all wrong, again a real hearing problem..:D

[garyb]

Not directly applicable but might give someone an idea...

http://magguts.com/

Thanks for the info. They may just be on to something for Kahr's mag issue that we read about on the forum. They will be coming out with components to increase mag capacity on the S&W Bodyguard 380 from 6 to 7 rds. Good info.

[jocko]

has anyone tried their set up?? I would think it would be just a mtter of time before it hits the kahrs to. sounds like a doable thing i the 380 so why not in the 9mm..

Just watched a super duper denver football game tonight. Sad for Romeo to throw for over 500 yards and loose the game...

[muggsy]

Not directly applicable but might give someone an idea...

http://magguts.com/

Damn, someone has stolen another one of my fine ideas. I'm going to have to put a patent attorney on retainer. Can I interest anyone in investing in an automatic transmission with a variable pitch vane torque converter? It totally eliminates the need for gear changes. I named it after my old pal, Jocko. I call it the shiftless SOB.

[muggsy]

ur totally deaf in both ears, u expect us to believe this dribble or did Jay hand sigh for u over the phone and then u could understand better. Just sayin:Amflag2:

He didn't swear u to secrecy, he called u a dumb fokk and u took it all wrong, again a real hearing problem..:D

I'm hearin' you loud and clear you old buzzard. :p

[wyntrout]

I went there and listed my Kahrs and what I would like... especially something for the PM45. A metal replacement base plate would be a good start!

Wynn:)

[garyb]

Well, 60 views later no one is touching this one. Might have to explore it on my own but I am not even sure what other single stack .40's are out there other than the Firestar that I recently sold. (Just try finding extra followers for a Star product nowadays!) Still looks just doable all dependent upon the magazine spring and how much space it will need before reaching coil bind, and again, I know I am going to need some free play beyond just getting the loaded magazine in the gun. I suppose if the other PM/CM 40 owners out there had other single stack 40 pistols they would have already tried this and I would have already read their thread on the matter....

You may want to check out www.magguts.com (http://www.magguts.com). You can at least see how they shaped the metal followers for their conversion kits which add another round capacity to the mags on the 380 for S&W Bodyguard, Ruger and Keltec. Just a thought. Better yet, contact them and add Kahr to their work list of guns to work on a conversion kit. Let them do the work.