Does a PM9 barrel drop into a CM9 ?

[C0untZer0]

If it does...

Does it make sense to purchase a CM9 and just get the polygonal PM9 barrel and drop it in? The price difference between a PM9 and a CM9 is about $220 right - somewhere around there, but a barrel only costs $140.00

And does anyone know what the average difference in velocity between the CM9 & PM9 barrels ?

[skiflydive]

Some say it does, some say it doesn't and someone posted that Kahr says it doesn't. If you look at the specs Kahr lists the PM9 as a 3.1" barrel and the CM9 as a 3" barrel.

[Popeye]

I do not believe it does. I don't see the sense in it anyway even if it did.

If you want a PM9 with the polygonal barrel then save for one. By the time you do what your asking your only saving about $80 and you still don't have a PM9 with the dovetailed front site and the extra mag. IMO you don't have the same QC as you do on the PM9 either.
5702

[JimC]

This is the reply that I received from Jay @ Kahr CS on 11/30/11 when I asked about using a CM barrel in my PM9.

Good morning. Thank you for the question. Unfortunately they are not
interchangeable.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919

And a follow-up to my next questionon 12/01/11:


Good morning. The barrels are completely different shapes and are not made
to lock with the slide in the same way. I hope this information helps and
apologize for any inconvenience.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919

Now, there are those here who have it on higher authority that this info from Jay is incorrect but it seems that Kahr will not comment further on the issue. No one from the higher authority has offered any impirical info to the contrary.

I would suggest that you contact Kahr directly. Posibly they will give you yet another answer.

Further info here CM9 vs PM9 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9685)

[gb6491]

Not to discount anything already posted, but here's a guy with some "hands on" time with both barrels:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjXN6U_xDek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o28W4mf7Gn4

I can't speak for the CM or PM series, but I've felt no need to swap out the barrels of my CW 9 or 45 for polygonal rifled barrels on the premise of increased velocities. In my case, this is a "why mess with success" scenario as both my pistols are reliable, accurate and shoot POA/POI with their OEM barrels (of course YMMV).
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

If it does...

Does it make sense to purchase a CM9 and just get the polygonal PM9 barrel and drop it in? The price difference between a PM9 and a CM9 is about $220 right - somewhere around there, but a barrel only costs $140.00

And does anyone know what the average difference in velocity between the CM9 & PM9 barrels ?

ur just wasting good money to buy a PM 9 polgonal rifgled barrel to put in ur cm9. U not gonna see any acuracy difference and if there is any velocity difference it is very marginal at best..

[MLESa7990]

This is the reply that I received from Jay @ Kahr CS on 11/30/11 when I asked about using a CM barrel in my PM9.

Good morning. Thank you for the question. Unfortunately they are not
interchangeable.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919

And a follow-up to my next questionon 12/01/11:


Good morning. The barrels are completely different shapes and are not made
to lock with the slide in the same way. I hope this information helps and
apologize for any inconvenience.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919

Now, there are those here who have it on higher authority that this info from Jay is incorrect but it seems that Kahr will not comment further on the issue. No one from the higher authority has offered any impirical info to the contrary.

I would suggest that you contact Kahr directly. Posibly they will give you yet another answer.

Further info here CM9 vs PM9 (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9685)

I'm sure even if they are interchangeable, Kahr won't say they are because if someone swaps them and something happens...:ohmy:

[JFootin]

Someone here posted chronograph comparisons of the P40 and CW40 shooting the same ammo and the CW40 was a little higher in velocity.

[BEARDOG]

Here Jeff Quinn tests a CW45 vs P45. Scroll down about half way for velocity #'s....The CW is a little faster with most of his test ammo!... I can understand wanting the standard rifling of the "C" series kahrs instead of the polygonal to use H.C. Lead reloads. But I see no reason why you would want to go the other way???
http://gunblast.com/Kahr-45s.htm

[jocko]

Some say it does, some say it doesn't and someone posted that Kahr says it doesn't. If you look at the specs Kahr lists the PM9 as a 3.1" barrel and the CM9 as a 3" barrel.

wonder even. being the slides are the exact same length, why the .01 longer length. would be nice if someone had both barrels to measure out. Makes no sense:behindsofa:

[lowroad]

watch the youtube Greg posted, they are identical in dimensions, and it drops right in.

[jocko]

watch the youtube Greg posted, they are identical in dimensions, and it drops right in.

3.1" probably measured by an illegal,
3.0" probably measured by and engineer :behindsofa:

[Barth]

3.1" probably measured by an illegal,
3.0" probably measured by and engineer :behindsofa:

I bought a P220 Sport barrel 5.47" off the internet.
Called Sig Sauer customer service, and they consulted a technician,
and verified it would not fit and work in my standard 4.4" P220.

Then I dropped it in and shot match like groups.

That said;
The velocity and accuracy difference of the two types of barrels,
in various real tests I've seen, is negligible.

[jocko]

No doubt a longer barrel should work in most semi's kahr has sold ported barrels that are longer and they work. I see no reason why it would not, what ever hangs over the front of the slide should have no effect on reliability, now I am talking within reasonable lkength top, but ur 1" longer barrel kinda shows that sometimes the tech people just shoot off their cuffs with some answers...

Thats why in my little mind the cm9 and PM9 kahr barrels are the same exact length, not a .01" difference. Now we have to take into consideration the ol blunt nose version of PM9 are a shorter barrel than new style beveled slide versions but if we are talkin new style PM9 and cm9 slides which are identical in length, then why would there be any barrel length variation???Just askin

[JimC]

Curious...has anyone taken note that the hood of the PM9 bbl. is marked 9x19 and the hood of the CM9 is marked 9x19 CM?

If it were only to distinguish between the two barrels, all one would have to do is look down the barrel and determine what type of rifling was in that barrel.

Curious...:confused:

And yes, the Kahr web site listes the PM9 bbl. as 3.1" and the CM9 bbl. as 3.0".

[Bawanna]

I suspect the folks on the assembly line don't have time to be looking down barrels on each one. I would think and this is of course only a guess, it's to prevent barrels getting in the wrong assembly line or simply to ease the flow of parts to their respective areas.

[lowroad]

I am sure bawanna is correct.

[JimC]

I suspect the folks on the assembly line don't have time to be looking down barrels on each one. I would think and this is of course only a guess, it's to prevent barrels getting in the wrong assembly line or simply to ease the flow of parts to their respective areas.

Makes perfectly good sense to me if both guns or barrels run the same assembly line.

[O'Dell]

I agree - even if it's a drop in why bother? The only advantage I've ever seen with a polygonal barrel is that it's a bit easier to clean.

[DKD]

I started a thread asking a similar question a couple of weeks ago myself except I was thinking about getting a CM9 barrel {std. rifling} so tha I could shoot my hard cast bullets that I make for practise in my other 9mm pistols.
My PM9 is the older blunt nose configuration...just wondering...?

[JimC]

I started a thread asking a similar question a couple of weeks ago myself except I was thinking about getting a CM9 barrel {std. rifling} so tha I could shoot my hard cast bullets that I make for practise in my other 9mm pistols.
My PM9 is the older blunt nose configuration...just wondering...?

Shooting up a few hundred of my lead 9mm reloads was why I asked this of Kahr last year and it started a lengthy conversation here.

As a second option, I was going to compare velocities between the two rifling configurations with various SD loadings.

[JFootin]

I started a thread asking a similar question a couple of weeks ago myself except I was thinking about getting a CM9 barrel {std. rifling} so tha I could shoot my hard cast bullets that I make for practise in my other 9mm pistols.
My PM9 is the older blunt nose configuration...just wondering...?

Why don't you guys do a trade?

[CJB]

One thing to remember - please -

Is that barrels are FIT to slides for the most part. There may be "drop in" barrels, but the best accuracy and long life are from barrels fit the slide, in terms of hood length for a Kahr, and in terms of lockup as well, where the kidney shape is fit on its upper rear surface to provide the correct engagement (without stressing the parts, and also leaving room for contaminants). All around, a good gun will have a very slight amount of play - human hair amount. Too much play, you get fast wear and poor accuracy. Too little it may jam, or break other parts.

Live with the barrel the pistol came with... there is zero accuracy difference in any sort of hand held or locked up firing. Strictly static firing, mounted in a fixture for that purpose, free of any other pistol component, you might find one prefers ammo X and the other ammo Y, but... nobody shoots that way. We shoot from our hands, with complete pistols, and perhaps on a handy rest... zero difference in accuracy

[BEARDOG]

Here are some pics of my CM9 barrel. You guys with PM9's...How does my CM barrel compare to your PM ?http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/CM9Barrelpics-1.jpg

[DKD]

Are you suggesting that every PM series & Cm series pistols all have their respective barrels hand fitted to every slide? In this day an age I would think this would be cost prohibitive. Also all of these parts are CNC machined which over the years removed the need for hand fitting due to of their exacting tolerances inherent in the CNC machining process.

[CJB]

I am suggesting that very same thinh, and if you look at the back of the chamber hood you may see evidence of it. All three of mine show hand filing marks. Some may not. Some may show more. Some barrels may fit just fine....others need trimming.
I imagine the port size to ve the variabe.....barrels the most easily held to spec...but they're probaby plus somethin, n
Minus nothing in tolerence.

[C0untZer0]

I'm interested in doing it to mitigate against the loss of velocity in short barrels.

The ballistics tests for most major premium SD ammo are usually done with 4-5" barrels. So I am worried that if I choose a SD round based on those tests and then I purchase a pocket pistol like the CM9 - the velocity will be lower than what I've seen tested and I'll get things like the round fails to expand because it doesn't reach the threshold velocity or it doesn't penetrate like tested. I thought the polygonal barrel increases velocity over land and groove.

So that's why I was interested in this.

[DKD]

All things being equal the 9mm fairs fairly well and looses less velocity than other self defense rounds. Your typical 124 grainer JHP that gets around 1,150-1200 fps will be more like 1,000-1,050 fps out of a 3" barrel compact pistol. Don't worry about this cause with todays specialty bullets even the lowly 380 ACP exspands well at under 900 fps. JHP bullets have come a very long way in the past 10 years. The 9mm round in 147 grains still can reach speeds of 950 fps out of the 3" kahr barrel. Thats still penty of punch to get the job done should the need arise. The heavier bullets in that caliber seem to lose less muzzle velocity than the lighter slugs from the same short barrels, so just go out and find the syle, make and weight that you & your pistol likes and do what old JOCKO says...Go out and shoot it like you stole it!!!