New CM9 -- Low POI?

[mko1024]

I recently picked up a CM9. I've had no issues through the break in period. No FTE's or FTF's or anything else. It's a sweet handgun to shoot.

However, I am having trouble with the point of impact being low. I'm guessing it has to do with the long trigger pull that I am still getting used to. I'm a glock shooter (30 and 26) and have never run into this before. I don't think it's a handgun issue, I think the problem is how I am shooting it. Is this a common shooter problem with these guns?

[bonjorno2]

heeling the gun, getting used to the long kahr trigger is not easy

[Wolffire99]

Why not shoot from a bench and then you'll know for sure

[JFootin]

This is a very common shooter ptoblem with these long triggers. All of us have had to or are still learning to avoid that sneaky little dip that happens near the end of the stroke. We don't see it because of the BANG thing happening. If you mix some snap caps in with your ammo and load your mags, not keeping track of where the snap caps are in the mags, then when you find a snap cap while shooting, the BANG thing doesn't happen and you are able to see that dip of the front sight happening. A laser is also a lot of help learning to shoot well with the Kahr trigger, even dry firing.

[Rubb]

About half way down the page you’ll find left and right handed correction targets.
http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html

[Bulldof38]

Maybe you are not lining the sights up properly. When I got my PM9 I had problems with low impacts also, very low. Make sure you can see the full dot of the front sight and front blade is even with the top of the rear sight. The white mark on the rear sight threw me off at first. There should be some black showing under the white dot on the front sight. Should shoot pretty much POA when lined up properly. Took me a couple mags of ammo to figure it out.

[SpecK]

This is a very common shooter ptoblem with these long triggers. All of us have had to or are still learning to avoid that sneaky little dip that happens near the end of the stroke. We don't see it because of the BANG thing happening. If you mix some snap caps in with your ammo and load your mags, not keeping track of where the snap caps are in the mags, then when you find a snap cap while shooting, the BANG thing doesn't happen and you are able to see that dip of the front sight happening. A laser is also a lot of help learning to shoot well with the Kahr trigger, even dry firing.

+++++++++++11111111111

the correction targets might help, they are definitely useful, but 99.99% sure that your issue is with what J mentioned. The first snapcap you arent ready for will tell the same story. I have the crimson trace and its a GREAT training tool and has helped a ton with my "dip"

BTW, Welcome to KahrTalk!!

[SpecK]

About half way down the page you’ll find left and right handed correction targets.
http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html


Awesome find! Thank you for sharing

[jocko]

I recently picked up a CM9. I've had no issues through the break in period. No FTE's or FTF's or anything else. It's a sweet handgun to shoot.

However, I am having trouble with the point of impact being low. I'm guessing it has to do with the long trigger pull that I am still getting used to. I'm a glock shooter (30 and 26) and have never run into this before. I don't think it's a handgun issue, I think the problem is how I am shooting it. Is this a common shooter problem with these guns?

glocks trigger system is not like kahrs triger system 3/8" trigger travel takes some rounds down range to get the hang of it. Keep in mind this is a defense gun and no safety or nuttin to screw with. Try POA shooting at 7 yards and see how goodu get that way. In a SHTF situation ur not gonna see anything but the front sight at best.. I shoot my G19 5X better than my PM9 but it is my hoe gun where as my PM9 is my 24/7 carry peace. BIG DIFFERENCE

[SyckoSmoker]

For what it's worth you might try a change of ammo. I was having some accuracy issues at first with my pm9 but after trying a few brands found that federal red box fmj and hornady critical defense hp shoot way better than I can hold in my particular pistol. Both brands are 115gr

[Chowser]

i had a coworker shoot 2 boxes of ammo through my CM9 last night, he was having the same issue because the trigger pull is long. he was also having issues short stroking the gun. He only had one misfeed, but it was with the 7-rd extended mag, so i'm sure it was mag related. no issues on the 6-rd mags.

overall, he didn't like it because of the trigger pull. I put another 2 boxes through it and had no issues.

---
oh. i didn't have any poi issues. i wasn't really aiming. just point shooting center mass and head from 3ft-10ft and not missing.

[Leafy]

Up front, I don't have a lot of posts here so feel free to dismiss my words. I am an NRA High Master, I worked full time as a gunsmith for ten years cutting dovetails, installing pistol sights, etc., I've been shooting pistol sports for years and usually place in the top couple percent in club matches and always have placed in State level matches. For a couple of years I competed with a S&W 625 so I feel I have the long DA pull pretty well mastered. Not trying to impress or blow smoke, just tellin' ya were I'm coming from. Of the half dozen PM9s I've fired every one has a low POI vs. POA. I carry one almost daily. At seven yards they place the round in the white dot on the front sight. Is this effective at short ranges? Sure, but it bugs me.

[TucsonMTB]

. . . At seven yards they place the round in the white dot on the front sight. Is this effective at short ranges? Sure, but it bugs me.
Yeah. Before changing one of my PM40's to 3-dot Meprolight night sights, they both behaved that way with the standard Kahr "dot the i" sights. Now, only one of them seems odd. The other works just fine with a "6 o'clock" hold. YMMV, but I am watching for a good price on a second set of Meprolights. ;)

[APSKahr]

Hmm. My Cm9 hits at or just a little high of the top of the front sight at 10 yards. If I want to put a round into the middle of the head of an IDPA target at 15 yds, I use a 6 oclock hold on the head, right at the neck line. I thought it was b/c if the snappy recoil the shots were hitting higher. It's actually OK with me b/c I know under stress I will be pulling the shots a little low.

[TucsonMTB]

Hmm. . . . If I want to put a round into the middle of the head of an IDPA target at 15 yds, I use a 6 oclock hold on the head, right at the neck line. I thought it was b/c if the snappy recoil the shots were hitting higher. It's actually OK with me b/c I know under stress I will be pulling the shots a little low.
Lots of things will change your POI. Bullet weight and distance are the biggies. Sounds like you have a winner! Congratulations!

[mko1024]

Thanks for the feed back guys. I ordered a CTC laser for it. I need to get back to the range and spend more time with it. I'll try some more types of ammo too. I was shooting Federal FMJ from Wally World. 115 grain I think. Even shooting low I don't think I would have a problem in a short range SD situation with it. I'm a lot more confident in this gun than my LCP.

[bonjorno2]

glad to hear it, more power than a 380

[Kahrbonized]

Up front, I don't have a lot of posts here so feel free to dismiss my words. I am an NRA High Master, I worked full time as a gunsmith for ten years cutting dovetails, installing pistol sights, etc., I've been shooting pistol sports for years and usually place in the top couple percent in club matches and always have placed in State level matches. For a couple of years I competed with a S&W 625 so I feel I have the long DA pull pretty well mastered. Not trying to impress or blow smoke, just tellin' ya were I'm coming from. Of the half dozen PM9s I've fired every one has a low POI vs. POA. I carry one almost daily. At seven yards they place the round in the white dot on the front sight. Is this effective at short ranges? Sure, but it bugs me.

It's obvious, since you have a low post count, it can't be anything other than limp-wristing and not using the sights properly :boink:
;)

Seriously, welcome to the forum.
I like to use a 6 o'clock hold myself, I suppose we will just have to keep our bad guys within 7 yds if we have the Kahr with us.

[Brad1]

Until recently, when I shot my PM9, I was always low and to the left. I thought the problem was with the gun, but I recently adapted my trigger pull and I can now hit a 12" square from 60ft shot after shot. For how small the PM9 is, and give my ability level (which I consider to be novice), I feel pretty good about that. It does take some getting use to the trigger pull. I kinda stumbled upon the technique.

[jocko]

indeed the gun seems to get the blame for a su know the gun cannot talk. glad u worked it out to.

[Tilos]

I'll assume you are shooting 115gr and suggest trying 124gr.
This subject comes up about once a week and here's a recent thread about shooting low and there are many others:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12356&highlight=shooting+low

Do a search of "shooting low" and you'll have plenty to read

[hardscrabble]

Many years ago I had a range encounter with a fellow that must have grown up when Single Action Armys were state of the art...seriously. He watched me shooting double action with a new M18 S&W .22 Combat M/piece. After a couple cylinders full, he came over and asked me if I wanted some advice. At the time I was just getting to the age of reason, when I became able to actually listen to what my elders had to say on important matters.

He criticized my "two stage" double action pull. (Pulling to a point, pausing to align the sights on the target again, then finishing the shot.) He told me to align my sights, watch the front blade and take a smooth pull straight through to the shot, no matter where it looked like that front blade was on the target. Sure enough, my groups shrank by half immediately. The POI also moved considerably.

I just bought my first Kahr, a CM9 that is back at the factory fixing a misfire issue. My baby brother (he's 51 with a lot of shooting experience) was shooting it while we were breaking it in and trying to solve the misfires. He was shooting 6 inch groups at 15 yards way low and left.

He's a Glock shooter (among other things) and I could see him pulling to a point and trying to pause (I have never fired a Glock that I couldn't feel that striker getting ready to fall) to align the sights. Only thing is, there isn't any such point on a Kahr. I told him "Stop that! Pull that trigger all the way through!" He knew right what I was talking about, and those groups started going right where he wanted them.

Your eye and your brain are marvelous contraptions that can easily be over controlled. If you concentrate on a good sight picture, your radar will attempt "lock on" 100 times while you are stroking that trigger. Just line em up and pull it through with a good smooth stroke, and see if that doesn't solve your issue.

[ParabellumJ]

I recently bought a CM9 and the first 200 rounds I shot low as well. I can't speak to aligning the Kahr sights, because I had Trijicon Night Sights installed before I shot it, but after about 400 rounds I shoot point of aim. It was just getting used to the trigger vs my Glock 19. Snap caps and dry fire help.

[Dustypuddle]

I like all of your imputs, I just put another 100 rds in my cm9 I had the same problem shooting low. I read what you guys had to say and you were right,I used the front target for the most part and I did so much better. Thanks to you all I love this gun I now have 350 rounds threw it with a total of 3 mis fires but it was my faullt by not letting the trigger reset. Thanks again