What am i doing wrong?

[TAE]

I have both the P380 (in the shop) and a PM9 and I love them, but i can't hit crap with them at 20'. Low and to the right as far as i can tell. I have a Glock 27, Tuarus 58UL and a firestorm 380 that I have no problems putting great groups at the same distance or farther. Is it the thinner frame or long trigger pull causing me to do something with my hand? I've got about 300+ on each and still not real consitant. I'm sure they sight them in at the shop. Any thoughts on what might be going on or I'm doing wrong?

[TucsonMTB]

It is really tough to offer advice without watching you shoot. If you have any experienced advisers available, it might be time to ask a favor.

However, you can at least detect flinching by mixing a snap cap in with your loaded ammo. If someone else loads the magazine so you don't expect it, the resulting flinch will be obvious. Even experience shooters are sometimes surprised when they try this technique.

Best of luck. We have all been there, no matter how long ago or how poorly we recall it. :)

[Cokeman]

If they are both doing this, it has to be something about the trigger that you are not used to yet. You are obviously pulling the gun down and to the right when pulling the trigger.

[kerby9mm]

Kajrs aren't $2000+ hand fitted custom guns so if they are sighted in at the factory, well probably not. They push the sights into the dovetails or in the cheap version pin the front sight in. As stated it is most likely your trigger control. It takes concentration and practice. You'll get it.

[TheTman]

I get better results if I don't try to "stage" the trigger, just use one long continuous squeeze.

[jocko]

I have both the P380 (in the shop) and a PM9 and I love them, but i can't hit crap with them at 20'. Low and to the right as far as i can tell. I have a Glock 27, Tuarus 58UL and a firestorm 380 that I have no problems putting great groups at the same distance or farther. Is it the thinner frame or long trigger pull causing me to do something with my hand? I've got about 300+ on each and still not real consitant. I'm sure they sight them in at the shop. Any thoughts on what might be going on or I'm doing wrong?

u a left hand shooter??/

Itis all about trigger control with akahr,what Tucson asku to do will show what u aredoing wrong for sure.Random snapcaps is the bestrraining device IMO. Try it. all of the guns u mentioned do not have a 3/8" trigger travel either. It is what it is a close up defense gun that will shoot um in the same hole except that 99% of the owners cannot. More rounds will help u alot but until u see what u are not doing correct, ur gonna feellike it is the GUN. Ur anticipating the BANG thing, u just don't realize it..

[muggsy]

See the video on trigger control. If you have the bar dot sights the dot must be placed on the intended point of impact. there should be a small space between the bar and the dot. If the dot isn't over the intended point of impact or the bar touches the dot you will shoot low.

http://www.youtube.com/user/flicksguns#p/u/11/zKdXmcdB5WE

[JFootin]

Hello lefty! How do I know? If you had said low and left, I would know you are a righty. It's you, not the gun. Though you cannot see it as you are sighting the shot, you are pulling the gun off target just before it fires, and the recoil is preventing you from seeing it. The random snap cap method is a real eye opener because there's no bang and you see the front sight move off target. Also, do some shooting from a firm rest just to convince yourself that the gun is POA/POI.

[U.S. Patriot]

Sounds like you are slapping, instead of squeezing the trigger. You need to work on your trigger control. You have to account for the heavier pull of a DAO trigger. I saw a guy doing the same thing the other day. Not even hitting the target. I told him to slow down, then he was hitting the center ring every round. If you do not have snap caps, there is another method you can use. Place a penny on the front sight, or a spent casing on the slide. Pick something to aim at and squeeze the trigger. If you knock the penny or casing off, then you are jerking the trigger.

[JFootin]

Sounds like you are slapping, instead of squeezing the trigger. You need to work on your trigger control. You have to account for the heavier pull of a DAO trigger. I saw a guy doing the same thing the other day. Not even hitting the target. I told him to slow down, then he was hitting the center ring every round. If you do not have snap caps, there is another method you can use. Place a penny on the front sight, or a spent casing on the slide. Pick something to aim at and squeeze the trigger. If you knock the penny or casing off, then you are jerking the trigger.

Of course, do this with snap caps or unloaded gun! :)

[CJB]

Shooters of the Beretta 92 series, have a tendency to shoot low, and often low and to the right (or sometimes left). This, of course, is due to their prior trigger experience, and inadequate training with careful response/feedback (aka calling the shot).

Often they'd complain to the gunsmith, or, more likely "want to borrow" a punch and hammer to "adjust" the sights.... which of course were windage only adjustable (and they were shooting low).

In such instances, the gunsmith (moi) would reply that tools were not lent to customers, but after brief inquiry, the type of pistol would be mentioned, and the knowing gunsmith would strike a deal with said customer.

"If I shoot it, and it shoots off at fifty feet, then I'll take my #@@# hammer brass punch and adjust the !!@# sights for you at no charge; or, if I shoot it and it shoots to the point of aim at fifty feet, I'll use the same @#$@ hammer to adjust your @#$@# trigger finger, also at no cost to you.

Pick one!"

They'd usually back down, ask me to "check" their pistol by firing it, which I always did, cuz I love to shoot other folks ammo. The result was inexplicable spontaneous correction of the sights whenever I held and the pistol, along with equally inexplicable and spontaneous return of the sights to their previous "way off" state whenever I placed the pistol on the bench or into its owner's hands.

[QuercusMax]

I have both the P380 (in the shop) and a PM9 and I love them, but i can't hit crap with them at 20'. Low and to the right as far as i can tell. I have a Glock 27, Tuarus 58UL and a firestorm 380 that I have no problems putting great groups at the same distance or farther. Is it the thinner frame or long trigger pull causing me to do something with my hand? I've got about 300+ on each and still not real consitant. I'm sure they sight them in at the shop. Any thoughts on what might be going on or I'm doing wrong?

If it's any consolation for you to hear this, you are not alone. I had a somewhat similar experience when I got my first Kahr (MK9) a year ago. I loved the gun, but just couldn't hit anything with it even at short distances. It was the only gun that frustrated me in that way.

With the advice provided by many helpful people on KahrTalk (such as you are getting in the preceding posts; also see lots of useful hints in the thread Accuracy with my Kahr (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8290)), plus practice, I have gotten better.

But as jocko and many others here have pointed out, Kahrs are not target guns, and are inherently difficult for some (many?) people to shoot accurately. Kahrs are optimized to be carryable SD guns, thus one's expectations and technique when using them are different.

Good luck, and just keep working on it.

[jocko]

all those drills are gret but IMO dry firing whenu know there is no possable chance of the bang thing realy doesn't get to the heart of the issue. U know nothing is gonna happen so all drills work pretty darn good. The bang and anticipastion thinbg seem to work together. U don't realize the anticipation u are having as the bang thing over rides it all...Just my two cents

I was shooting my K9 last week with some TUL steel cased ammo that I was testing out to see if it wasgoing tobe ok for my K9. I actrually at 7 yrds was shooting good groups even and that pleased me but then I hit a no fire with one of those rounds and damn near yanked the trigger out of thegun. I know I was doing this prio to this no bang thing to, only I did not know it and I was definitely anticipating the bang thing. I am a believer that one casn master a bad habit to, and I think that is what I have done and my groupls were presentable but if u do the same thing wrong every time, u seem to somehow adjust to this. Just sayin

IMO there is just nothing else that tops RANDOM SNAP caps for showing shooter error BIG TIME. What u do after that is up to u. Hellif your shooting good groups, why screw with it. In a SHTF situation ur just not gonna sit there on a bench rest or lining up the front/back sight and target. Just ain't gonna happen. If you use POA shooting with these kahrs, ur gonna get damn good at 10 yards and under and ur gonna get damn fast to. It is a defense gun that will save ur life; Train that way.; Just sayin I must say I hate bulleyes targets to. Get a silohette target . train with the purpose ur kahrs were made for.

[TAE]

Thanks for all info all of you have some good insight and things for me to look at. I will pick up some snap caps and give that a go. Someone had said i might be a lefty but i shoot right. Maybe i should shoot left and bring that low to the right on center.

[Tinman507]

Stick with what you're comfortable doing. In a SHTF situation you cannot hesitate, it's got to be automatic. Keep practicing and learning the gun. It will come together. Besides, shooting paper is fun.

[jocko]

Thanks for all info all of you have some good insight and things for me to look at. I will pick up some snap caps and give that a go. Someone had said i might be a lefty but i shoot right. Maybe i should shoot left and bring that low to the right on center.

ur rear sight is left and right adjustable, getting to the ups and downs might just be solved by seeing more or less of the front sight or 6 o'CLOCK HOLD VS 12 o'CLOCK HOLD. Here again POA shooting can take care of alot of that..

[TucsonMTB]

You may have already seen this guide to common issues.

http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/Target%20with%20Technique%20Issuses%20Noted%20Clea n.JPG