Bluing - A DIY Project?

[SpecK]

Tell me what you know. Ive got a Mosin Nagant that needs blued because it looks kind of faded after the stock has been refinished. I really dont want to spend alot of money on a professional job as a "new" nagant is like $109 on Buds and multiple shops here in town. Help! Does it look good or bad? Is it hard to do? Anything is appreciated.

[CJB]

Home bluing is an investment... true bluing that is.

The cold blue, or other blue are really selenium plating (all of em), which looks black, and offers almost no protection at all. Its also very hard to get an even color over a wide area with that method.

You have the option of a coating, or phosphate (Parkerize).

Personally, I'd leave it alone.

[SpecK]

I had a feeling that would be the answer.

After the whole .177 fiasco Im pretty keen on listening to your advice so old and weathered she will stay. Thanks!!

[lowroad]

park it!!

[CJB]

The .177 wasn't a fiasco.... it was... an "adventure"!

If you like stuff like that - go get a Brownell's catalog - its great reading - as many of the product descriptions are also micro lessons.

[gb6491]

park it!!
As cjb and lowroad suggest, parkerizing is certainly a viable DIY option. The biggest drawback would be finding a suitable container to do a long gun in.

Rust bluing is another option for the DIY'er; again, finding a suitable container is the biggest drawback.

I wouldn't completely write off cold bluing for touch up work. Not all cold blues are created equal and while not as effective as a hot or rust blue, some can give reasonable results when doing touch up. I find they give best results on less than polished surfaces (polished surfaces are hard to get an even finish on with these products). Durability can be surprisingly good when applied properly, allowed to cure without handling, and waxed afterward. Touch up is also easy to do. I like Brownells Oxpho Blue. Here's one of my Nagants that I've touched up some areas on it with the Oxpho Blue:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2rmnx5h.jpg
Here's a side that had an area that was completely white:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2dl2p7p.jpg
This flat is that area:
http://i43.tinypic.com/nvqkh3.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

I too have had reasonably good success with the Oxpho. On a few occasions I've used several cold blueing products in sequence to achieve a suitable finish..

44-40 worked pretty well as I recall too, haven't used that for quite a spell.

The durability isn't near as good as hot blue but most of mine are treated gently so not a big issue.

[AJBert]

I've got an older Stevens side by side 20 ga that is not a candidate for hot blueing due to the material used to connect the two barrels. I do have an 870 that is Park'd from Remington and didn't ever think about doing it to the Stevens.

Off to google home brew Parkerizing kits!

[lowroad]

you really need a stainless pan of
appropriate size. Check restaurant supply stores for seam table pans, and the park solution. For a long gun, maybe a stainless drop tray from walmart or sams club? Not much to it. Oh a bead blaster I guess, or in my case, and uncle with a bead blaster :) I'm doing an uzi currently. I will detail the process with photos and such when I get to parking it in the next week or two here.

What Greg did looks phenomenal too. Probably easier and more appropriate for a mosin anyway.

[gb6491]

Well, what do you know, came across a thread that recommended these "speed rails"" as a parkerizing tank (may need to seal the ends):
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/spill-stop/13-532/p8652.aspx
Gonna order one for myself.
Regards,
Greg

BTW, thanks lowroad:)

[CJB]

The Oxpho, PermaBlue, 44-40, etc etc etc are all variations on a theme.

What you have is - an acid, usually phosphric acid, and some sort of selenium compound. The acid serves three purposes - to slightly clean and etch the steel, to neutralize any rust by turning it into iron phosphate, and to act as the electrolyte in what is essentially an electroless plating procedure. The selenium is deposited onto the steel, the selenium oxidizes black almost instantly, and you have a layer of black stuff on the steel.

The problem is - selenium is neither tough nor thick, which lends it to wear with almost no handling at all.

Bluing, true bluing, is the conversion of iron to iron oxide, which is actually part of the steel, not a coating on top of it.

Parkerizing takes heat, but there are some "cold phosphate" finishes out there as well.

[lowroad]

Well, what do you know, came across a thread that recommended these "speed rails"" as a parkerizing tank (may need to seal the ends):
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/spill-stop/13-532/p8652.aspx
Gonna order one for myself.
Regards,
Greg

BTW, thanks lowroad:)
What you really want is something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140600900435?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_715

unless you need the extra foot of length. Those you posted are for bar liquor. Behind the bar, and where the term "well drinks" comes from. I don't know how you would seal them. Any sealed stainless vessel will basically do it :)

[gb6491]

What you really want is something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140600900435?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_715

unless you need the extra foot of length. Those you posted are for bar liquor. Behind the bar, and where the term "well drinks" comes from. I don't know how you would seal them. Any sealed stainless vessel will basically do it :)
Those are pretty nice and I appreciate the link, but I already have containers to do smaller items. I need something to do long guns in. The speed rails look to be spot welded on the two folded over joints. I have some high temperature sealant that should handle the temps needed for parkerizing and the rust type bluing products. Then again, solder will probably do the job
Here are a few parkerizing projects I've done:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2qukpzb.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/b55swi.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/30u9t3q.jpg
Just the frame on this one:
http://i43.tinypic.com/zkqyo4.jpg
Looking forward to seeing your Uzi:cool:
Regards,
Greg

[lowroad]

Man after my own heart. I knew I liked you best. Excellent work. Excellent. Here I thought I was talking to a rookie.

I as thinking solder on those speed wells too.

[AJBert]

So, with silver soldering holding two barrels together on a side by side, is the heat from Parkerizing too much???

[Bawanna]

Those are pretty nice and I appreciate the link, but I already have containers to do smaller items. I need something to do long guns in. The speed rails look to be spot welded on the two folded over joints. I have some high temperature sealant that should handle the temps needed for parkerizing and the rust type bluing products. Then again, solder will probably do the job
Here are a few parkerizing projects I've done:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2qukpzb.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/b55swi.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/30u9t3q.jpg
Just the frame on this one:
http://i43.tinypic.com/zkqyo4.jpg
Looking forward to seeing your Uzi:cool:
Regards,
Greg

Wow, those look fantastic. Turned out really good.

[Popeye]

Greg looks good. You did a nice job on it.

[gb6491]

lowroad, Bawanna, and Popeye,
Thanks!:)

So, with silver soldering holding two barrels together on a side by side, is the heat from Parkerizing too much???
Silver soldered barrels, you should be good to go. Soft soldered, then it would depend upon the melting point of the solder used.
Belgian/Express rust bluing requires boiling water. Parkerizing is done below that temp. The solution I use (from Lauer Custom Weaponry) says to heat it to the 170-185 degrees F range.
Regards,
Greg

[Tilos]

http://www.caswellplating.com/everything-for-firearms.html

[SpecK]

Cool thanks everybody, gonna have to do some trial and error it looks like. One things for sure tho, if I dont know where to spend my money, you guys are always there to help :rolleyes:

[Alfonse]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=15338/GunTechdetail/Brownells-Gunsmith-Tech-Corner-January-2012?sp_rid=MjM3MDM5MDQ3NjcS1&sp_mid=3894338

Dicropan is actually a rust blue that I just use a heat gun rather than a tank.

I just used it on an old .22 and it comes out pretty nice. The hardest part on big parts like barrels is making sure you get enough heat on the part. You have to do it in sections. I don't have the speed the author above describes.

The nice part is if it looks uneven, you just keep going over it until you get a nice, consistent finish.