Is there a new P380 magazine design?

[frbejarano]

I recently purchased a new magazine for my P380 (6 round). The feed lips seem to be shorter and they also have a different side profile. It seems to function better than the original 6 rounder. I don't think if fixed the fanning as they both appear to be the same but the new mag does allow the the top bullet to spring up faster and stay that way. With the old mag, I would insert it into the gun and the round would scoot forward causing nose dives with hollow points. Keep in mind I have not fired with this new mag but I did insert each one loaded into my pistol 5 times each. With the original the top bullet would scoot forward and down but with the new magazine the top bullet would stay in place. I like it better. Here are some pics. The new mag is on the left side on all of these pics. Let me know what you all think.


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/frbejarano/DSC02718.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/frbejarano/DSC02719.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/frbejarano/DSC02720.jpg

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/frbejarano/DSC02721.jpg

[Cokeman]

Someone else was commenting on shorter lips but I can't remember if it was a P380 mag though.

[OldLincoln]

Maybe it's just me but it looks like a thicker metal and machined sharper. Also, if those are full mags, it doesn't appear to flex as much spreading the lips. This should put the round leaving the mag more controlled and fewer feed fails.

I hope this is leading into the other calibers soon.

[Deano]

Looks to me like the same mag with the front part of the lip ground off. Be interesting to see if this changes the failure to feed rate. I hope so. I really want one of those little babies.

Be sure to tell us if you notice any difference.

[wyntrout]

I just bought an RC89xx P380 for Wifey and both the 6 and the 7-round mags are the "improved" versions like that. Nice catch, frbejarano, and thanks for the post. I'll look for a difference when I get around to testing this one. I haven't looked at my other mags, but I have 7 or 8 working 6-rounders and at least 3 of the 7-rounders for my own. That might be a nice mod to try. It ain't like I haven't ruined more than a few mags with modding!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

There's some beveling on the lips of the magazine well, too, something not on my RA61xx. There may be other changes. I need to get this new one to the range... just been busy.

Wynn:)

[Cokeman]

You also need to get us some pictures.

[wyntrout]

Yeah, but one looks just like another... 'cept mine has a little wear... and NS.

Wynn:)

[Cokeman]

And a beveled mag well that the other one doesn't have.

[wyntrout]

The new pistol's sights are a lot lower profile. The "post" is very short and the top of the dot is just about the top of the front sight.

The bottom of the old grip is "shorn" and flattened with little or no bevel in the mag well. The new one's rounded at the bottom and beveled a bit.

The new has two screws in the side plate.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I just ran across these images from my Cold War Days. I got the .50 BMG "dummies" at the last gun show... no powder or primer... 2 for $5.

The finish on the barrel of the new gun is really dark... not "polished".

Wynn:)

[frbejarano]

Maybe it's just me but it looks like a thicker metal and machined sharper. Also, if those are full mags, it doesn't appear to flex as much spreading the lips. This should put the round leaving the mag more controlled and fewer feed fails.

I hope this is leading into the other calibers soon.

It doesn't appear to be thicker but I have not measured. The mags were full.

[wyntrout]

I'll get around to measuring them eventually, but I have to get back to work on my new front door. The painters start Monday and I have a few projects to complete... painting the inside of the new front door and then installing it.

I modified three or so of my first .380 mags by trying to put detents on the rear of the lips... I can still use a couple, but one would no longer retain cartridges and was spare parts. Kahr actually replaced one of those when I sent my P380 back for the second time... to stop the random slide lock-backs with ammo remaining (the first was for the DOA front NS). They returned the "bad" one and it works fine and is the one in my P380 now. I noticed that when taking pictures.

Wynn:)

[wlc]

I have four P380 magazines with three different feed lip lengths. I contacted Kahr and was told that they have shortened the length to improve feeding. I measured mine and found no difference other than length. If you look at the front of the feed lips on the shorter ones, you can see where the have been machined. I think they have modified the existing stock of magazines. I may try to shorten one of the longer ones although I have not had feed issues with any of them. The shorter one seems to feed better when racking by hand. ( It still doesn't work great by hand though )

[Tank]

Nice pics. I have 3 of the old style mags and I have been going to trim a little of from those lips but haven't got to it yet and your pics. will help. Cutting them back to resemble the new mag will be a good starting point.

[Cokeman]

Night sights have always been taller than the standard sights.

[TominCA]

I notice that sometimes the bullet does not release early enough (low velocity rounds generally) which puts it too far up the feed ramp when it finally does release - it sometimes cant get under the extractor - I think because the slide is moving too slowly, and the rim actually rises in front of the ectractor - which puts a round in the chamber with the extractor behind (not over) the rim. It happens to me only with FMJ (low powered and longer like S&B) and the sharp taper HP like Zombie Max.

After reading this i got some of my mags and did a test with dummy rounds. If I bent the mag lips a little I could change the release time a bit and move the release to the extractor side (right side looking down from the top) I bent the left lip in and the right lip out and got an earlier release with the cartridge coming out on the right lip first and then releasing from the left - this seemed to put it roght under the extractor - even with slower slide travel (remember I'm doing this by hand with dummy cartridges)

Anyhow it seemed to work so I'll take the altered mags to the range Monday at lunch time and see if there is any difference with the stuff that doesn't feed 100%. If it doesn't work I need some new mags anyway.

[Cokeman]

Now this I'd buy. It sounds more like a solution than "you need a new recoil spring".

[wyntrout]

It's good that someone at Kahr is tinkering with the mags and trying to improve them, instead of poo-pooing the "nose dives" and our attempts at fixing them.

Wynn:)

[TominCA]

Took my modified mags (bent lips -see above) and tried them - while not 100% successful it is worth pursuing. All HP ammo fed well -even the X=Zombie stuff which did not work well previously. Rem UMC FMJ fed well and I was about to call the experiment 100% successful when I decided to run some Fed red box through the bent mag and I had some feeding problems which included case flips around 180 degrees and jams with the case laying horizontally the long way in the ejection port -(????) and also a few hang ups on the ramp (failure to feed) with the nose forward and the slide stopped against the cartridge. Normally Fed Red box will feed and eject just fine - but occasionally a stovepipe.

I ordered two new mags from Kahr and also a new extractor just to be sure. It may be several weeks (like 6 ) before I get a chance to run a test - so this all may have been settled by someone else by then - but if not I'll report back with the new mag results if no one else has.

But I think there is enough change here to indicate that there is something to the magazine modification and that the time of release is the important variable - remember my change was bending magazine lips so its not the same and actually proves nothing except that if you bend the left lip in and the right lip out you change the release time / pattern in someway.

[TominCA]

The two new p380 gs came earlier than I had expected and I was able to go to the range and test them. The basic difference is that the feed lips are about 1/8 inch shorter measuring from the back of the magazine, The follower appears to be the same as the follower in my other mags.

The result is that the cartridge releases about 1/8 inch earlier as the slide moves forward. In concept this would put the rim of the cartridge under the extractor sooner, preventing several possible problems from ocuuring that caused mis feeds.

Sounded good but did not really work. Cycling wit hdummy rounf=ds showed no improvement. When there was a lot of slide velocity the csrtridge fed fine, when there was little slide velocity (slow hand held release) the slide pushed the cartridge forward and when it released it "jumped" rapidly in front of the extractor and was then pushed into the chamber without the extractor being over the rim. This appeared to be part of the original problem.


I also noticed a greater tendancy for cartridges to nosedive" or basically just jam nose first against the ramp and not feed at all (my p380's never did this before)

I tried several types of ammo

Mag tech JHP 85 +p fed fine as it usually does

Rem UMC Green box fmj 95 fed fine as it usually does.(occasional stovepipe)

Fed red box did not feed well at all and it was difficult to get 6 rounds through a pistol without a jam of some sort - this is a new lot so maybe it is underpowered since it used to work well.

The dissappointment was Speer gold dot 90g HP which no longer feeds well.

Focchi FMJ was shootable (but occasional soft strike) but now dies not feed at all.

I thought we were really on to something here - but apparently not - When I get time in a few weeks I may try some other stuff - but for now I don't see a lot of benefit in the new mags.

[jocko]

so are u saying the orignal magazaines are OK???

No doubt more rounds down range and manual cycling will imporove alot. I just coul dnot hand rack my P380 when I got it and I was frustrated with it also . It worked fine with the slide rlease lever but it was a real b!tch the other way. Today,I can do both with ease and I know the gun has smoothed out alot to but I also know that I just got better at performing the manual slide racking...

[TominCA]

The original mags did not feed some types of ammo well - The new design does not seem to be better. I still need to modify the followers so they don't bump the mag release button and I also changed the extractor in one of hte guns - so that could be a variable.

Another variable is the extractor tension - In one p380 about .02 is ground off of the extractor spring pin. In the other it is stock (because my other ground sprng launced itself to the moon last night while changing the extractor and I didn't have time to grind another) This pistol is a little less reliable and it may be the new extractor / full tension spring.

I have hoped that the problems I had with some of the lower powered range ammo would be fixed by the new mags. SO far no - but its a little earley to say defiantely.

[Deano]

Keep us posted. I'm interested in this little cutie. Would love to hear more reports of super reliability.

[TominCA]

Deano - I will - but It will be a few weeks until I get back to it - Don't be discouraged by my magazine story - I'm just fooling around with it - Mine shoot corbon. magtech+p and Speer gold dot (with the other mags for the GD) with 100% reliability - I play with the pistols as a hobby - right now I'm trying to solve a low powered "range ammo" problem with some rounds not getting caught under the extractor on feed. What happens on my p380's is when the slide velocity is low (low power ammo) the slide is not traveling forward very fast and as the round reaches the end of the mag lips it "pops" out and forward - getting infront of the extractor on the slow moving slide. Unlike the 1911 the Kahr extractor will not pop over the rim as it seats the cartridge in the chamber. I thought maybe the new style mags could overcome this problem - but actually they made it a little worse with my guns.

Having said all this - don't hesitate to buy this gun - its a defensive firearm and you want it to shoot the powerful stuff like Corbon and Magtech, and it does that very well!