Looking for a Full-Size Gun w/ a Khar-ish Trigger

[r2dhart]

I have been carrying my CM9 for a few months now and absolutely love it. I've really grown fond of the trigger and want to add a FS, high capacity handgun to my collection for HD and and as an occasional truck gun. I would like to stick with the same manual of arms and have a similar trigger to the CM9. It would also be a bonus if I could attach a tactical light although this is more of a nice-to-have than a must-have. I'm not set on any caliber but I'm leaning towards a .40 or .45 just to add a little variety.

So far the only thing I've found that fits the bill is the Sig P250. A friend of mine had one a couple of years ago which I shot one day at the range and I could find nothing to dislike about it. He says it's was 100% reliable and very accurate.

Do you guys have any other suggestions? Again here are my parameters.


Full Size
High Capacity
Similar manual of arms (to the Kahr CM9)
Similar trigger

A couple of nice to haves are:


Accessory rail
Caliber larger than 9mm

Thanks in advance.

[gb6491]

I have been carrying my CM9 for a few months now and absolutely love it. I've really grown fond of the trigger and want to add a FS, high capacity handgun to my collection for HD and and as an occasional truck gun. I would like to stick with the same manual of arms and have a similar trigger to the CM9. It would also be a bonus if I could attach a tactical light although this is more of a nice-to-have than a must-have. I'm not set on any caliber but I'm leaning towards a .40 or .45 just to add a little variety.

So far the only thing I've found that fits the bill is the Sig P250. A friend of mine had one a couple of years ago which I shot one day at the range and I could find nothing to dislike about it. He says it's was 100% reliable and very accurate.

Do you guys have any other suggestions? Again here are my parameters.


Full Size
High Capacity
Similar manual of arms (to the Kahr CM9)
Similar trigger

A couple of nice to haves are:


Accessory rail
Caliber larger than 9mm

Thanks in advance.
A SIG P226 or P229 with DAK (maybe throw the P250 in the mix as well) would probably (depending upon how similar you think the trigger is) meet all your requirements .

Para-Ordinance (LDA) and HK (LEM) might work too, but I'm not sure if they have safeties or not (pretty sure the Paras do).

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Para's do have safeties, not sure on the HK.

Would be a very similar trigger. Very nice trigger.

I have a P14-45. It holds 15 rounds and I think there are large mags available. Nice shooter too.

[Barth]

I'm at work and can't actually look...

Sig has their DAK double action Kellerman trigger.
I think it's available on many of their models.
I think it's on their P229 guns that come in 357 sig and 40.
These weapons are nothing short of outstanding.

I believe P229 DAK 357 guns may be standard issue to the
Secret Service protecting the president of the United States.

H&K also has some sort of LE double action only trigger system as well.
Don't remember what they call it.
They have some high cap models in 40 and 357 as well.
HKs are in the same rare air as Sig Sauer.

I would look hard at these brands.

Personally, if you can wait, the Sig Sauer DAK P224s are just coming out.
They are about the same size as a Glock G27 and can use the high cap P229 mags.
For concealed carry I really like a sub-compact double stack gun
that runs full size mags for re-load.

My EDC is a Glock 27 357 Sig.
With a 9 round flush G33 mag and twin G31 15 round mags for reload.
That totals 40 rounds in a very concealable package.

[Barth]

Para's do have safeties, not sure on the HK.

Would be a very similar trigger. Very nice trigger.

I have a P14-45. It holds 15 rounds and I think there are large mags available. Nice shooter too.

My H&K USP 45 compact came in a variety of configurations.
The standard one had an external safety.
But you could, and I did, order a version without any external safety.
I think it had a hammer drop like my Sigs?

[jocko]

imO ONE OF THE FINEST RGIGERS OUT THERE IS pARAS lda. SCARY EVEN, GREAT TRIGGER..

[Barth]

imO ONE OF THE FINEST RGIGERS OUT THERE IS pARAS lda. SCARY EVEN, GREAT TRIGGER..

I think Jeepster has one of those and raves about it.
I've never had the pleasure.

[ripley16]

Looking for a Full-Size Gun w/ a Khar-ish Trigger
Sphinx pistols have a very similar trigger. Ultra smooth, great break... very nice guns but at a price.

[Deano]

Glock 30. 11+1 (IIRC) of 45 acp. No safety, similar trigger DAO, rails available, and reliable as the rain in Oregon.

[Wolffire99]

The only other pistol that had as smooth of a trigger as my Kahr, with zero stacking, was a performance center s&w 686 (msrp $1200). Sig's DA pull is close but it's usually twice as heavy.

[TheTman]

Might look at Springfield Armory's XD line, S&W's M&P, and Glock.

[krevo]

Despite the fact that most of the big name offerings with DAO triggers will not feel as smooth as your Kahr, that isn't to say that with a simple bit of gunsmithing that you could achieve a similar feel. I wouldn't consider any models that are DA/SA or DA hammer fired. Primarily because these will never feel similar to your Kahr. You need to find another striker fired pistol.



The trigger that feels most like a Kahr to me would be a Glock or Springfield XD. About 5-6 pounds, with a clean break, and a much shorter reset. The Glock 19 would be my recommendation since the manual of arms is literally identical (aside from the trigger safety) to your Kahr.

[r2dhart]

I haven't handled a Sig DAK or H&K LEM yet. If I can find one at a local gun shop I'll have to give it a try. I'll also have to save up some more $$$.

I've handled the Glock, XD and M&P pistols and can say that the Glock and XD feel nothing like a Kahr trigger. Short trigger pull with a "mushy" break. The XD seemed a bit "crisper" but still felt very different than what I'm looking for. The M&P was nice but still not as close as the P250.

One of the gunshops I went to suggested the Glock with a modified trigger. Something about a New York trigger with a 3 1/2 pound disconnector. He said it feels a lot like a revolver or Kahr trigger, But I'd have to buy the gun then have it modified and then if I didn't like it... Of course Glocks are always in demand so I could probably trade it for something more to my liking.

[O'Dell]

I'll second the opinion on the SIG. I don't think the DAK is quite twice as heavy as the Kahr trigger, but I haven't shot one in a couple of years. The trigger on a SIG P250 is smooth but longer than a Kahr. Finding an HK w/o a safety might be hard - all that I've seen had them, including my three. Both SIG and HK are quality pistols and are both ultra reliable. The HK may be a hair more accurate and will probably be lighter.

[Bawanna]

I haven't handled a Sig DAK or H&K LEM yet. If I can find one at a local gun shop I'll have to give it a try. I'll also have to save up some more $$$.

I've handled the Glock, XD and M&P pistols and can say that the Glock and XD feel nothing like a Kahr trigger. Short trigger pull with a "mushy" break. The XD seemed a bit "crisper" but still felt very different than what I'm looking for. The M&P was nice but still not as close as the P250.

One of the gunshops I went to suggested the Glock with a modified trigger. Something about a New York trigger with a 3 1/2 pound disconnector. He said it feels a lot like a revolver or Kahr trigger, But I'd have to buy the gun then have it modified and then if I didn't like it... Of course Glocks are always in demand so I could probably trade it for something more to my liking.

I agree that the Glock, XD or M&P are nothing like the Kahr. The Para LDA would be the most similar for travel and long reset. Even though it is hammer fired and looks like a real gun (1911) the trigger is extremely light up till about the same point where the Kahr releases. Very safe, very forgiving if you happen to keep your finger on the trigger. You can easily carry with the safety not engaged without fear with minimal caution of course.
I have 3 and my only minimal gripe is the long trigger reset and I think that comes from the officers around here whining about it.

[RedRyder]

I bought my Kahr P9 and a Sig P250 2SUM with a week of each other. The Kahr trigger is smoother and a bit shorter; however, the SIg trigger is as good as any revolver trigger I ever felt. I liked the idea of the 2SUM for versatility, not to mention that I think I stole it on Gunbroker for $441 for the set. So far, it has been every bit as reliable as the Kahr but due to even the Subcompact's size, it will probably be relegated to a fanny pack rather than a carry gun. The full size makes my home defense gun. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

[Barth]

I haven't handled a Sig DAK or H&K LEM yet. If I can find one at a local gun shop I'll have to give it a try. I'll also have to save up some more $$$.

I've handled the Glock, XD and M&P pistols and can say that the Glock and XD feel nothing like a Kahr trigger. Short trigger pull with a "mushy" break. The XD seemed a bit "crisper" but still felt very different than what I'm looking for. The M&P was nice but still not as close as the P250.

One of the gunshops I went to suggested the Glock with a modified trigger. Something about a New York trigger with a 3 1/2 pound disconnector. He said it feels a lot like a revolver or Kahr trigger, But I'd have to buy the gun then have it modified and then if I didn't like it... Of course Glocks are always in demand so I could probably trade it for something more to my liking.

Here's the deal on Glock trigger pull:
GT members trigger pull findings:
Ghost 3.5 with stock spring is right at 5lbs.
All factory is actually 6 lbs.
Ghost 3.5 with the NY1 and get 8lbs.
NY1 with stock connector was 9.5 lbs.

I just have the Ghost Rocket 3.5 alone with factory springs.
To me it's like a SA with lots of pre-travel.
Pre-travel to a wall.
And then a predictable crisp, clean, 5 lbs break.
Very little over-travel and a short reset.

A 3.5 connector and an NY1 spring is supposed to be very DA revolver like.
Haven't tried that addition.
It's suppose to have constant 8lbs pressure throughout the long pull with a crisp break.

[jocko]

I am looking at glocks professional edition catalog and they show two NYPD triggerts NY1 and NY2, both are 11#, the ny1 starts out at 5.5# aqnd end up at 11# and the NY2 starts out at 7# kand ends up at 11#

[chrish]

+1 on be sig p250.

Hands down the closest to a kahr in a full size, double stack semi auto. Its my next (soon) purchase. Trigger is about the same weight at 6-7 pounds.

[Barth]

I am looking at glocks professional edition catalog and they show two NYPD triggerts NY1 and NY2, both are 11#, the ny1 starts out at 5.5# aqnd end up at 11# and the NY2 starts out at 7# kand ends up at 11#

I've never heard of anyone using the NY2.
It's suppose to be crazy heavy.

The real deal is the connectors and springs are all cheap
and relativity easy to change out (NY1 or 2 are like $3.00).
None change the factory gun and you can always go back.

The Rocket does have an over-travel tab that has to be fitted.
But most parts are drop in.

Consensus is mix and match till you find what you favor.

[jocko]

I guess they must figure some of their officers are d!ck weeds and don't know how to take care of thier guns. the NYPD has in the past been notoriius for making a gun maker do dumb fokking things but when ur bidding on a 45K gun purchase these gun makers will do what ever it takes to please. They say it was due to the transition of wheel guns to semi's which back 20 years ago might make sense but I have no doubt most all new officers today break themselves in with semi auto's,, wheel guns take a back seat. back in our days of selling glocks I had a employee who I sent to glock armorers school andthen the only nypd trigger was the
#1, I didn't even know there was a #2 until I read the glock booklet. I think that is the main reason nypd and kahr went separste wasy to. they were asking/demandng kahr do trigger mods on the K9 that kahr felt was not approproaite. I had heard even that they wanted kahr to come up with a 13# trigger instead of the nypd glock trigger of 11
#. Not sure how true this is. Just sayin.

[WI carrier]

i don't think you will be happy with anything less than a TP45, yes the big 4 inch barrel 45. sorry, but only a Kahr is a Kahr, they seem to be the only company with a trigger and action you expect. get it with night sights and a bunch of mags, then set it on the night stand next to your 12 gauge:D

[jeepster09]

I think Jeepster has one of those and raves about it.
I've never had the pleasure.


I love the Para's....:D


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1009.jpg

[krevo]

I haven't handled a Sig DAK or H&K LEM yet. If I can find one at a local gun shop I'll have to give it a try. I'll also have to save up some more $$$.

I've handled the Glock, XD and M&P pistols and can say that the Glock and XD feel nothing like a Kahr trigger. Short trigger pull with a "mushy" break. The XD seemed a bit "crisper" but still felt very different than what I'm looking for. The M&P was nice but still not as close as the P250.

One of the gunshops I went to suggested the Glock with a modified trigger. Something about a New York trigger with a 3 1/2 pound disconnector. He said it feels a lot like a revolver or Kahr trigger, But I'd have to buy the gun then have it modified and then if I didn't like it... Of course Glocks are always in demand so I could probably trade it for something more to my liking.

Again - there aren't really many options that resemble a Kahr trigger. DA striker fired. I have the NY spring + 3.5# disconnector in my Glock 26 and I can tell you it is not anything like the Kahr setup. It increases the pull weight but lightens and crisps up the break.

The Kahr is unique in that the trigger springs back even after the striker has been actuated - where as Glocks and XDs stay in the rear position until the slide cycles and chambers another round. However, I shoot my Glocks and XDs in a very similar manner to my Kahrs and have found that I am accurate with all 3 the same. I really don't like DA/SA hammer fired guns like Sig and H&K, and the Sig P250 really does nothing for me.

I suppose

[340pd]

Sig 226/229 DAK trigger.
XDm with Powder River of Springer trigger kit in them.

[dkmatthews]

i don't think you will be happy with anything less than a TP45, yes the big 4 inch barrel 45. sorry, but only a Kahr is a Kahr, they seem to be the only company with a trigger and action you expect. get it with night sights and a bunch of mags, then set it on the night stand next to your 12 gauge:D

HUGE +1 for the TP45!

I love mine!

[r2dhart]

Met up with a friend over lunch at a local indoor range and he insisted I shoot his XD45 Compact. The trigger feels very different than the Kahr which turned me off initially but it felt so right in many other ways plus it was a freakin' tack driver out to 15 yards (the longest distance on this range). I may have to reconsider my desire for a "Khar-ish" trigger.

[TheTman]

I think you may be looking for sometime if you are looking for another pistol that has a Kahr-ish trigger. I don't have many DAO pistols, but my Boberg is the closest to the Kahr trigger I've come across. It has about the same length of pull, but is just a bit heavier, I think this is due to it being hammer fired and not striker fired.
I have several pistols, each with it's own type trigger particular to that brand of gun. I have no trouble transitioning from a Kahr to any of the other pistols. After practicing with each one for a bit you know what to expect from the trigger. Look around, you may find something that you like better than the Kahr trigger. I think the Kahr trigger is perfect for self defense, but is not what I'd want on a target or hunting pistol. My current favorite DAO trigger resides on my M&P Pro, which is about like a 2 stage rifle trigger, you take up the slack with no resistance, then you feel the resistance when the trigger is ready to break with a crisp 4-5 lb squeeze. It's like the best of both worlds with a DAO trigger that breaks like a SA trigger.

[O'Dell]

Met up with a friend over lunch at a local indoor range and he insisted I shoot his XD45 Compact. The trigger feels very different than the Kahr which turned me off initially but it felt so right in many other ways plus it was a freakin' tack driver out to 15 yards (the longest distance on this range). I may have to reconsider my desire for a "Khar-ish" trigger.

A stainless XD45 compact was one of the pistols I had stolen in February of last year. The trigger was not bad, but the pistol never did anything for me, and was the only one I didn't even think about replacing. It was also the only one that had ever FTFeed. Of the ten guns taken, guess which was the only gun recovered - you got it, the XD. I brought it home from the police station, and cleaned and lubed it - no damage that I saw, but it was dirty. The same day I took it to my LGS and traded it for a Kimber.

[getsome]

I tried really hard to like an XD after reading so many good things about them but there is no way I could get used to that grip...I did play around with a FN .45 and it really felt good to me and had a nice DA trigger pull but many don't like a SA/DA pistol but to me it's perfect as the first semi auto I bought many moons ago was a S&W 645 and now own a like new Police trade in 4506 with a factory action job and it shoots great to me...

O'Dell I'm glad you got at least one pistol back from all that were stolen...Next Wednesday 5-2-12 is the one year anniversary of Dekalb County Police finding my stolen 1911...I called Monday to see (Ha Ha) if it had cleared testing yet so I could pick it up but they smugly said it would probably be at least another year which I think is a total crock of chit...

Oh well what ya gonna do?

[Bawanna]

I tried really hard to like an XD after reading so many good things about them but there is no way I could get used to that grip...I did play around with a FN .45 and it really felt good to me and had a nice DA trigger pull but many don't like a SA/DA pistol but to me it's perfect as the first semi auto I bought many moons ago was a S&W 645 and now own a like new Police trade in 4506 with a factory action job and it shoots great to me...

O'Dell I'm glad you got at least one pistol back from all that were stolen...Next Wednesday 5-2-12 is the one year anniversary of Dekalb County Police finding my stolen 1911...I called Monday to see (Ha Ha) if it had cleared testing yet so I could pick it up but they smugly said it would probably be at least another year which I think is a total crock of chit...

Oh well what ya gonna do?

You turn into a squeaky wheel. You work your way up from front desk to Chief if you have too. It's your gun, they have had it a year. I'd go there minimum once a week. The other 4 days I'd call. Be kind, be polite but be a burr under their saddle.
Make it so they give it back just to make you go away.
That is a bunch of BS and they got no reason what so ever to keep it that long.

Was it used in a homicide or something, just recovered stolen property right.

You have dates, case numbers, names etc?

[Barth]

I think you may be looking for sometime if you are looking for another pistol that has a Kahr-ish trigger. I don't have many DAO pistols, but my Boberg is the closest to the Kahr trigger I've come across. It has about the same length of pull, but is just a bit heavier, I think this is due to it being hammer fired and not striker fired.
I have several pistols, each with it's own type trigger particular to that brand of gun. I have no trouble transitioning from a Kahr to any of the other pistols. After practicing with each one for a bit you know what to expect from the trigger. Look around, you may find something that you like better than the Kahr trigger. I think the Kahr trigger is perfect for self defense, but is not what I'd want on a target or hunting pistol. My current favorite DAO trigger resides on my M&P Pro, which is about like a 2 stage rifle trigger, you take up the slack with no resistance, then you feel the resistance when the trigger is ready to break with a crisp 4-5 lb squeeze. It's like the best of both worlds with a DAO trigger that breaks like a SA trigger.

That's exactly how I feel about my Gen 3 Glock G27 with a Ghost Rocket 3.5 connector.
And when you shoot 150 rounds and have a baseball size hole left where the bullseye was.
It's hard to not come around to liking it.
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo21/c2/0f/84b804bc0a24__1333759790000.jpeg

[getsome]

No there is no criminal case pending against it and I have the case number records and the Police report and property room number I call every month... The pistol was stolen from my daughters truck and later found by a guy cutting his grass in his front lawn...The Police property room wouldn't let me see it to check out if the thing has been run over by a truck or something and if that were the case I wouldn't pursue it anymore at all, just not worth the effort...They were very rude and wouldn't answer any of my questions and the officer at the property room window just walked off and never came back after I asked her who the Sergeant in charge of the property room was...

The deal in Georgia the Police say is that all firearms that are stolen and recovered or used in a crime HAVE to be ballistic tested by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation before they can be returned to thier owner...

The GBI stopped doing the tests on anything but an active murder case weapon in 2006 due to budget and manpower issues and just recently as of a few months ago started doing ballistic testing again but only do 5 or 6 guns a week and Dekalb Police alone has over 2 thousand guns in the back log inventory to be tested, mine one of them so I may never see my pistol again...

I called the GBI and asked the firearms dept that does the testing if it was really state law that ALL recovered firearms require testing and they said no it's up to the local authorities and the particular Police or Sheriffs Dept policy as to whether or not it needs to be done so it seems Dekalb is one of those Departments that believe the only good recovered gun is one that never leaves their property room and returned to the proper legal owner...I'm pretty sure the nicer recovered guns somehow find their way into some Lieutenant's or Captain's private collection and are never returned to the legal owners...Sorry for the rant but I'm pretty steamed with Government in general at the moment...:mad:

[Bawanna]

Even more bogus. It's not even recovered stolen, it's found property.

PM coming dude.